Quoted from Mrawesome44:If JJP had even a put out a simple message like" Due to covid we have to increase prices going forward". They wouldn't be getting this much backlash.
Nah, I'm pretty sure the same people would still be whining about it.
Quoted from 2000_Alum:I do get the “next day” price increase problem have. But this game was announced 4 months ago with orders being taken Oct 5th. People complaining had time to get in, they didn’t. Not sure I understand the whole “this company owes me”. They really don’t. The good news is everyone can vote with their wallets. If this is a bad move, the bottom line will show as much. If not, then it was good business.
I can give you a couple good reasons people may not have gone in at first.
1.Playfield issues.
2.The huge backlog
3.No timeline for when people will receive games
JJP seem to love shooting themselves in the foot. This is just another situation where the backlash could have been avoided.
Quoted from Straight_Flush:I was saving for a SE, finally Jack made a pin that I felt was affordable. Then he goes and raises his price 1k? Keep your pin jack. Hot wheels is a bargain @ 6300 free topper,side blades,shaker motor.
Quoted from Straight_Flush:To me this increase is a middle finger to the average joe pinball collector.
Well, kind of. They're not catering to anyone who doesn't have the money. The original pricing did that when you think about it. This pin should be an operator's dream with a kick-ass theme and basically no powered mechs to break down, but the price is tough. Now it's tougher.
The first big massive buying frenzy wave has passed. The next orders are from collectors / people with no money issues. They have no idea there's an increase.
You're collateral damage.
Quoted from Crumbalimb:People are buying GNS because of Eirc, and toystory will sell,but their customers are not biting at the chomps to get pats games.I have the upmost respect for what Pat has done and his games,but again its not as high demand as Eircs games.
For the record I am a big JJP fan and love what they bring to the market, But man they sure know how to ignore us and stick it to their customers.
You really think people are buying GNR because of Eric? They are buying it because its its Guns and Fucking Roses.
Quoted from djsolzs:You really think people are buying GNR because of Eric? They are buying it because its its Guns and Fucking Roses.
Some of us bought it because of Eric's POTC. I did.
I haven't thought about GNR since the 80s. I had a fair amount of trepidation about whether I'd like the pin or not, since I'm not a fan.
Happy to report the pin has actually made me a fan though. There's a lot of -really- great music on it.
Quoted from Guinnesstime:Well, kind of. They're not catering to anyone who doesn't have the money. The original pricing did that when you think about it. This pin should be an operator's dream with a kick-ass theme and basically no powered mechs to break down, but the price is tough. Now it's tougher.
The first big massive buying frenzy wave has passed. The next orders are from collectors / people with no money issues. They have no idea there's an increase.
You're collateral damage.
Yep, that’s well put, I will say this for stern, they still make pins this collateral damage can afford when times get harder and they will I won’t forget the company that represented me and my budget.
Quoted from Straight_Flush:Yep, that’s well put, I will say this for stern, they still make pins this collateral damage can afford when times get harder and they will I won’t forget the company that represented me and my budget.
I just don't get this.
Tesla makes the car I want, a 2 seater EV roadster 0-60 in under 2 seconds. However, it's 250k which is more than I am capable or willing to spend on a car.
I'm always free to try and make more if I wanted it badly enough; they just priced it high enough that it exceeds my personal threshold.
I don't blame them for this.
Quoted from djsolzs:You really think people are buying GNR because of Eric? They are buying it because its its Guns and Fucking Roses.
I bought it because of Eric. So, yes.
I would think the masses dont know who he is - maybe I am wrong. I understand pinball folks will buy Eric and Keith machines regardless i just dont think that is the reason for all the sales. My opinion.
Quoted from 27dnast:I bought it because of Eric. So, yes.
Quoted from zaphX:I consider this disrespectful. The band gave up ALL assets to make this pin the best it could be, and Axl contributed too.
It's not disrespectful. My wife says, "Heres your breakfast, ya fat fuck" to me all the time. And she's right. If I didn't want man boobs and look like I'm 5 months pregnant, perhaps I should cut back on the Oreos. If it's not a glandular problem, it's fair game. 
Quoted from zaphX:I consider this disrespectful
Do not upset the JJP fanboys 
Laughing...gif
Laughing..gifQuoted from beelzeboob:It's not disrespectful. My wife says, "Heres your breakfast, ya fat fuck" to me all the time. And she's right. If I didn't want man boobs and look like I'm 5 months pregnant, perhaps I should cut back on the Oreos. If it's not a glandular problem, it's fair game.
No, but its a stupid comment.....like yourself he's probably still bitter he blew his wad on an LZ LE
If other pinball games are selling for $15-20k then why not $10.5 for a NIB GnR? If it was released at that price we would have complained then paid. At $13.5k all 500 CEs would have sold out too.. AND those who missed out would have been mad. I think I'm more disappointed that pinball games at my highest price point (used Stern pro) may continue to get more stripped down giving us less game for more money in comparison to the past. I know have to stretch a little, or trade a pin to move up to a used premium. But that will not be often for sure. Kid has to go to college..
Quoted from PtownPin:No, but its a stupid comment.....like yourself he's probably still bitter he blew his wad on an LZ LE
Boob is a smart guy. He'd never buy a LZ LE.
#FakeCollectionList
Quoted from zaphX:I consider this disrespectful. The band gave up ALL assets to make this pin the best it could be, and Axl contributed too.
Theres a reason forums don't have a camera feature. Everyone looks like a built rockstar commenter behind a keyboard. lol
Quoted from PtownPin:No, but its a stupid comment.....like yourself he's probably still bitter he blew his wad on an LZ LE
Got it last night. It's great (except for the callouts) and now my friend wants an LE. So...maybe you're wrong? 
Quoted from 27dnast:Boob is a smart guy. He'd never buy a LZ LE.
#FakeCollectionList
Precisely why I DID buy one. I don't listen to opinions around here...historically speaking, they're usually misguided.
Quoted from zaphX:Smartest person on Pinside. Ignore the hivemind of negativity here.
Thank you. I haven't been wrong yet. I thought I was for about 2 minutes the first time I launched a ball on Zep because the callouts suck so bad. But I turned them down, figured out the rules, and it was REALLY addictive. (Nice tunes, too!)
You're my favorite Pinsider of the day. Congrats. 
Quoted from beelzeboob:Thank you. I haven't been wrong yet. I thought I was for about 2 minutes the first time I launched a ball on Zep because the callouts suck so bad. But I turned them down, figured out the rules, and it was REALLY addictive. (Nice tunes, too!)
You're my favorite Pinsider of the day. Congrats.
A friend of mine (huge LZ fan) just got the LE and is absolutely loving it. He also ordered GNR LE.
Quoted from Yelobird:Theres a reason forums don't have a camera feature. Everyone looks like a built rockstar commenter behind a keyboard. lol
LTG : )
419963 (resized).jpgQuoted from LTG:LTG : )
[quoted image]
Lololol. You never looked like that even at 16!
Quoted from zaphX:I just don't get this.
Tesla makes the car I want, a 2 seater EV roadster 0-60 in under 2 seconds. However, it's 250k which is more than I am capable or willing to spend on a car.
I'm always free to try and make more if I wanted it badly enough; they just priced it high enough that it exceeds my personal threshold.
I don't blame them for this.
Work Harder 
Quoted from LTG:None of our business. Only Butch knows. And JJP knows. And any company that fires an employee will never say. There could be legal repercussions. Especially if something happened inside the company or outside, that the company has a zero tolerance for.
When a statement like this is made, even by Lloyd, who I genuinely have much adoration and respect for, I feel it's necessary for clarification.
I'd been super excited to meet Jack at some point, and finally did at Pinfest in 2019. He was totally who I expected, hoped him to be. Earnest, charismatic, a big goofball, playful. My friend and I really enjoyed finally meeting him after a couple of years of being into this new generation of pinball, and massive fans of JJP.
The person I was really taken aback by meeting at that show, was Butch Peel. I saw him there in the evening, felt intimidated by watching his JJP videos for a year or so, but when my friend and I walked up and spoke with him, I couldn't have imagined meeting a nicer human being that day. Butch was genuine, informed, and took a massive amount of time and showed such incredible enthusiasm for pinball in talking with us.
I never forgot that. I never will.
I've had some back and forth with him via emails since then, and I do consider him a friend. I wrote to him for clarification on this issue, and indefatigably there were NO issues on his end regarding what you elude to here regarding "zero tolerance".
That upsets me Lloyd, because people still IN the company, needn't add to that toxicity that ousted him. If anything, they could have vouched for him, and didn't.
Such is history, and thankfully Butch is really happy and contented where he is now. He also obviously respects and admires you greatly, and I know you feel the same!
I don't wish to drag this out, but I have felt nothing but honor, pride and a strong sense of humanity in getting to know him since Pinfest 2019. I am thankful for that. We should all be thankful CGC saw the value JJP didn't, and is allowing him a chance to flourish, and add to the pinball industry in his very unique way.
You both have legacies in this industry, and I am glad to know you both. 
Quoted from zaphX:A friend of mine (huge LZ fan) just got the LE and is absolutely loving it. He also ordered GNR LE.
i passed on GNR and got LZLE. after hearing all the haters bash the game I was worried that i made a bad decision. I'm so glad i went with my gut. LZLE is gorgeous and is a blast. The fact i saved almost 20% over a GNR LE and get to play it now versus an unknown wait time is a huge bonus. I still may add a GNR down the road but for now i'm glad i went the other way.
Quoted from zaphX:I consider this disrespectful. The band gave up ALL assets to make this pin the best it could be, and Axl contributed too.
Pinmaster is a troll ahole this is his job! Your right about GnR especially Slash with all of the effort he put into this project.Can you imagine Pat getting that kid of support from Pixar for Toy Story?I will say I don’t like this increase at this point I think it should have been handled differently.Maybe between titles with an explanation of increase.The optics are better and not too difficult to do
Quoted from beelzeboob:Thank you. I haven't been wrong yet. I thought I was for about 2 minutes the first time I launched a ball on Zep because the callouts suck so bad. But I turned them down, figured out the rules, and it was REALLY addictive. (Nice tunes, too!)
You're my favorite Pinsider of the day. Congrats.
Ritchies games are fast and fun.But then they become somewhat repetitive unfortunately they don’t stay very long in my collection!
Quoted from Yelobird:Lololol. You never looked like that even at 16!
I was close at 21.
LTG : )
21 (resized).jpgI'd be out on this game now if it wasn't for the fact I'd already got one at the lower price and was almost out on it when the EU hiked the price by 25%, fortunately by shipping later I missed out having to pay that price.
I simply won't pay more than £10,000 for a pinball machine. Here in the UK with Stern the local distributer adds a huge amount to the price compare to the US and a Stern LE is close to that mark.
Quoted from Mrawesome44:I can give you a couple good reasons people may not have gone in at first.
1.Playfield issues.
2.The huge backlog
3.No timeline for when people will receive games
JJP seem to love shooting themselves in the foot. This is just another situation where the backlash could have been avoided.
This guy gets it. Right on
Quoted from LTG:I was close at 21.
LTG : )
[quoted image]
Cool to see a pic of Kung Fu Lloyd from back in the day. How long were you in martial arts?
Quoted from Thunderbird:JJP prices are now $4000 to $6000 over Stern’s for the same 3 tiers. (Yes, JJP has used tricky marketing wording on those 3 tiers, but they’re the same 3 tiers.)
Blink, blink...
Is that for real? Is it really that much? Seriously?
Quoted from Chuckwebster:i passed on GNR and got LZLE. after hearing all the haters bash the game I was worried that i made a bad decision. I'm so glad i went with my gut. LZLE is gorgeous and is a blast. The fact i saved almost 20% over a GNR LE and get to play it now versus an unknown wait time is a huge bonus. I still may add a GNR down the road but for now i'm glad i went the other way.
Really ? I thought LZLE's were over $9K.... at the time u ordered your LZ GNRLE's were $9500....not sure how u saved 20%
Quoted from 27dnast:too many people let others judge for them, or played one that wasn't properly set up
Or people wouldn't support a thief and his design...
Quoted from LesManley:How long were you in martial arts?
Heavy into it, full contact about two years. Total three or four years.
LTG : )
Quoted from zaphX:I just don't get this.
Tesla makes the car I want, a 2 seater EV roadster 0-60 in under 2 seconds. However, it's 250k which is more than I am capable or willing to spend on a car.
I'm always free to try and make more if I wanted it badly enough; they just priced it high enough that it exceeds my personal threshold.
I don't blame them for this.
These arguments do not make any sense (and there have been plenty in this thread). It is not like you could afford a 250k (insert whatever here) yesterday but cannot today.
I guess I should clarify. It is not like you were priced out of car ownership.
I guess I was one of the "lucky" ones, as I placed my order for GnR LE the day before the price hike.
The funny thing is that I was literally in the middle of asking for my refund back (the next day) after receiving a more accurate date for receiving the pin. I just didn't feel that I had the stomach to wait that long. Then I get a text from my distributor (after he had already agreed to give me my deposit back) telling me about the $1k price increase. I told him to give me a few hours to think it over.
In the end, I told him I was going to stay in.
The reasons? 1) I have played the pin, I like it, and it looks fantastic; 2) FOLO
So if JJP raised the price by $1k in order to prevent people from asking for deposits back, it worked...at least on me. And I feel like I have been completely manipulated! 
Quoted from RobT:I guess I was one of the "lucky" ones, as I placed my order for GnR LE the day before the price hike.
The funny thing is that I was literally in the middle of asking for my refund back (the next day) after receiving a more accurate date for receiving the pin. I just didn't feel that I had the stomach to wait that long. Then I get a text from my distributor (after he had already agreed to give me my deposit back) telling me about the $1k price increase. I told him to give me a few hours to think it over.
In the end, I told him I was going to stay in.
The reasons? 1) I have played the pin, I like it, and it looks fantastic; 2) FOLO
So if JJP raised the price by $1k in order to prevent people from asking for deposits back, it worked...at least on me. And I feel like I have been completely manipulated!
What’s folo?
Quoted from Zitt:Or people wouldn't support a thief and his design...
Joe Balser is a thief? That’s news to me, do tell
Quoted from PtownPin:Really ? I thought LZLE's were over $9K.... at the time u ordered your LZ GNRLE's were $9500....not sure how u saved 20%
I based the number on what it costs today. I paid 9k (technically a little less) for LZLE including shipping. If i were to order a GNR it would be 10.5k plus $300 shipping. total difference in price is $1800 which is 20% of 9k
Quoted from romulusx:Ritchies games are fast and fun.But then they become somewhat repetitive unfortunately they don’t stay very long in my collection!
Not one of them has left mine...
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