I guess. Usually when they list a price on something it rarely goes up due to sales. Ok if a scalper/flipper grabs it at cost then jacks up the price cause there's not enough quantity to meet demand I get it, like the PS5 but Sony won't increase their set price. ah who cares anyway.

Since they are in Chicago, I believe they have the $15 an hour minimum. And probably have to pay more for people that can actually work.

LTG : )

I'm curious why so many attack it since the answer is simple. Don't buy it.

There are many options in pinball. Cheaper games. Used games. Games that don't work that you can fix up. Or even fix up games and sell for more and work your way up to a collection you want.

There are things in the world that are important. Pinball isn't one of them.

LTG : )

Think you kind of proved my point with this story. I am sure we ALL wish we or our parents started a rocket company, operating system, book store, or made wise investments but we Didn't! We decide where we go and what we achieve and thats called America!! As hard as I work there are many Really awesome things I would like to have but they just don't fit our budget or means. Doesn't mean I hate Elon Musk for it nor am I expecting him to send me a free car just because I deserve it for working hard. Completely understood if you Hate this suggestion but consider taking that 10.5 pinball savings and take some night classes to pursue the carrier and pay scale you Want and Deserve! Pinball will be here for a Long time and after you earn your dream job you can buy them all and send us hand outs for all your success. Pinball is Not an investment, but YOU are. Invest in yourself and find Happiness.

For many.. sure. For many more... no. Remember you also have everyone trying to set their kids up to work full time from home too. You also have millions doing video or other real time stuff where they never did before (i work in the industry and know the metrics... ) which impacts what people use/need in their space.

It’s called demand. It’s driving this bus

As to why many attack? I'm more questioning the validity of a move like this. And frankly, if people don't, and maybe jostle a thread like this, maybe it will convince some on the fence that indeed this is an awful price hike to commit early in the run, and sans any notice at all to possible buyers.

I just don't get it Lloyd. You didn't need to come here to defend this move. They haven't bailed you out while you fight daily to survive, and they easily could have. $50,000 is like $50 for billionaires. This company is a toy for them, as it is for the people that can afford it. (Of which I really am not. I still owe for my games.)

And again, do you think Jack fired Butch unceremoniously or maybe Leonard and or Brett did? I never want to buy from them again just for what they did to Butch Peel.

Fuck em'.

Did anyone take a stand and threaten to leave after that? I doubt it. And people should have.

Defend away, all of you. Ugh.

The biggest noise for the 1K price increase seems to be coming from people who were never buying a GnR any way

Or those who probably shouldn’t.

Well said Lloyd!

Welcome to the next few years of higher wages, costs, taxes and inflation

Companies pass those costs through.

Maybe they are also getting ahead of the corporate tax hike that is coming later this year?

It is what it is

Why did JJP raise prices?

It’s kinda simple.

Because they can.

If people choose not to buy on principle because of a price hike, that’s one less game JJP have to make when the game is popular and production purportedly can’t keep up. They win.

If people choose to pay the extra $1k. They win

We are super keen to have a flip on a Gunners LE and more than likely buy one. This price hike may have priced us out of the market for one. At $17K in Australia I am struggling a little to see the value for money. I think JJP (and Stern) are signalling other manufacturers to put their prices up as well. Stern just went up on 2 games $500. JJP have gone up $1K. The best way to lower demand is raise the price.

The answer is always simple. If you do not like it or cannot see value for money, don't buy it.

I just remembered that scene in License to kill when they all agree on the new price. People will shout and scream but at the end of the day they will accept it and the next raise too by the way.

D4FE521D-4D2F-4361-A4B1-BE05AAB2E274 (resized).jpeg

"Bless your heart!"

As if carguments were not bad enough now we have to compare pinball machines to grocery stores.

Show of hands, has anyone on here purchased a GNR for the new $10.5k price yet? Just wondering how long it takes to go from anger to acceptance? Or maybe it doesn't matter if you're wealthy enough.

Get used to price hikes for everything you buy. Things are not getting more expensive, it's just that the dollar is worth less every day. Inflation hasn't even really started yet.When a Country prints 35% of the money it ever created in one year that should tell you where prices are going. So putting your money into a JJP GNRLE even with the added cost might be better then holding dollars.

There were 91 million PC units sold around the world in Q4 2020 alone. The year over year increase in 2020 was the highest it has been in a decade.

Exactly. A bunch of whiney girls. I'm sure they were just about to pull the trigger on a $9500 game to put next to their F14 and EM.

Simple Supply and Demand. Here JJP has Demand that surpasses Supply--- by far. Thank you JJP and the full team that put this game together. Slash's personal involvement and dedication shows how financial gain was not the motive.

Sure I did. You could have had your say once and let it go. You are attacking a company and people I like, again and again.

Not their job. Not expected of them. Or from any other billionaires you've mentioned.

Maybe you don't really know me. I'm on the downside of life. A life that I've dedicated the last 1/3rd of to trying to help people get the most out of their pinball machines. I don't have much time left. So I do what I enjoy. No matter how much bullshit I have to fucking put up with. I want to leave a legacy on Rec Games Pinball, and Pinside. To continue to help people long after I'm gone.

That is what makes me happy. That is Me. Even my arcade is an end to a means. Helping people where I can.

None of our business. Only Butch knows. And JJP knows. And any company that fires an employee will never say. There could be legal repercussions. Especially if something happened inside the company or outside, that the company has a zero tolerance for.

I had never met Frank. Communicated with him a lot. I liked him. And he was gone. It made me sad. I never questioned it or asked. Because it was none of my business and had no reflection on how I'd be helping customers with tech support.

Anybody that has a job. Isn't going to quit because a person was let go. And have to go foraging for a new job. Every time USPS gets a new postmaster general. Do all the postal workers walk out and threaten to leave if they didn't get the old one back ?

Lloyd

....4....!!!!!

This is one of the best threads I've ever had the pleasure of being part of and as usual its a JJP thread. They never disappoint.
"Financial gain was not the motive"
"Capitalism"
"It's called demand"

There's too many to list. They could make a movie out of this just call it "Delusional, A pinball Story"

If JJP or Stern or whoever can raise their price and get it then great for them. Couldn't care less. I'm here for the movie.

You already are my friend. You already are.... And you ain't going Anywhere till the 50th anniversary and then the 70th!

.....Also in italy...........

Love this post. Living within your means...what a concept! The problem with our society is we are encouraged to live above our means. I went to a modest college because it's all my parents (and I) could afford. Never held me back! Just meant my school loan was paid back almost immediately.

What a funny world, where we question the ambitions of the peons, all the while cheer the "progress" and flamboyant successes brought on by the ultra elites.

I went to school, long, long ago. And ultimately like Brett, I became my Dad. Tried not to be. Tried to be an illustrator. Not skilled enough, not enough connections, needed to quit trying after a decade, and inherit the legacy of manual labor from my Dad's 41 years as a laborer. I'm proud of that.

Only thing I can say is my background is honest and earned. I can't for a fuck's sake say that about the current owner of JJP, Brett Abess. Can you?

Pinball prices have straight up exploded. Anything not a pro basically starts at 8k. Not including accessories, shipping, tax etc.

Not true at all. I know a bunch of people including me were waiting for the backlog to die down a bit before placing a non-refundable deposit.

Love this hobby because it can be appreciated no matter the background. Ive met some great people as a result - whether they own expensive pins or not.

I’ve tried to appreciate your comments, but they seem to go beyond price hikes to a bitter place.

JJP has always been the price leader.
And that isn't in a good way.
Actions like the latest are a perfect example of them doing whatever they want... And we as consumers lapping it up.

I wasn't a jjp supporter before, and I'm not starting.

We really do need a price correction crash.

And long after you're gone, you'll still be alive in every person you helped. I certainly say a silent "Thank you, Lloyd" every time I lift the playfield. So while you're likely not going anywhere anytime soon physically, in the hearts and minds of pinheads on and off this site, you'll be around for a very long time indeed. Guys like you are like the Yodas of pinball. Thanks, Lloyd.

All the supply and demand posts...

This is not an elastic price market. We don’t see these manufactured pin hard goods prices flexing week to week or month to month.

When was the last time you saw a pin manufacturer lowering msrp mid run? There is discounting in the channel... but not msrp changes.

And your really think gnr prices will come down once demand subsides? We all know it won’t... so please stop it with these simplistic s&d arguments like none of us have ever heard of it before.

It it was just huge demand, most companies take that opportunity to convert that demand into sales by increasing production... or providing substitutes. Simply flexing the price is a known detriment to hurting that demand. Obviously companies don’t want to kill demand, but convert it to sales.

This isn’t a fixed number of units where simple demand drives competition for each buy. Demand is high due to the product... not necessarily due to being under priced. Missing your estimates on market size doesn’t necessarily mean you were under priced.

Using prices to neuter demand does just that... hinder demand (and your sales). Sure you get some extra margin, but volume is the blood flow of a MaNUfACTURER- not margin. Volume drives revenue... volume drives economies of scale... volume brings cash flow and sustainability.

JJP can’t be looking to do anything that would stand to hurt their consistent production output. Trying to “limit demand” is just foolish.

If it truly is a “rising cost” issue... that blows because it means its never coming back.
If it is opportunistic to capitalize on the hot product - i think it really is short sighted.

The people tripping over themselves to buy $1k toppers... and people willing to buy 10k games from prophets... says the slush fund is no where near at its limits :/

Absolutely no argument there. Sadly.

I can't even see the attraction to toppers. They're not for me even if they were given away, I'd put it in a safe place or sell it. Another thing I've noticed about people on this site is their mod hunger. A machine gets announced and people are already talking about putting more stuff into the game and at a price that is crazy too. Whining about a price increase for NIB when other areas of "the pinball hobby" are outrageous, but apparently justified, is bizarre to me.

I use to be into that. I'll do some lighting upgrades to personal preference but toppers and shakers and mods went a long time ago. Don't miss em at all.

The only way I see people paying the $10,500 price any time soon is if they jump the line and get their game before the people that paid $9,500 get their game. JJP did that with their WOZ games, they let the people paying more get their games before the pre-buyers (the first to pay first to play line was a lie with regards to WOZ).

JJP will sell plenty of GnR’s at the $10,500 level, it just won’t be any time soon.

Agreed

Well said on all. Gnr is a great game. It will sell.

This was part of their plan. The core pinheads will get their game at the low, low price of $9500. If demand increases, we'll get the chance to raise it for others. 99% of future buyers will never know. Manufacturing costs didn't increase. Profits did, though. It's pretty simple.

BKSOR topper is pretty badass and was under $500. For me that topper was a must have. Bought it before I even bought the pin.

Sorry to hear that, in 18 months our Stern LE prices have gone from 15K to 18.5K. Prices keep going up.

Lloyd, please don't take any of this shit personally. Pinside, like the rest of the world, is becoming full of negativity and divide. It leaks out everywhere we turn. One constant is your loyalty and support to us all regardless of this. I see my "I got mugged" mug every day and will always be grateful to have met you and learned so much from you here and on RGP before half of these newbs were tall enough to see a playfield. I know it sounds like I'm agreeing with BEELZEBOOB, but it's just a fluke one time thing, I promise

Yeah...please don't make that a habit. I've got a reputation to uphold.

“ It it was just huge demand”

I think you just made the supply and demand case, didn’t you?!!

Which was the reason I declined Jacks offer for a Hobbit after being an ea on my Woz in and waiting 3 years. I felt that the company made a great product but TH looked sparse and seeing others playing their WOZ’s while I waited was a gut punch.

Bitter in what way?

A billionaire gifted his baby boy a toy company that another man built after decades of selling the things he adored. Jack earned his birth as a pin manufacturer. That feat amazes me. What amazes me less is it being unfortunate that a billionaire was necessary to save it.

All of that is "fine". It's not fine, for me obviously as a customer and fan...whatever that means, when that salvaged company knowingly ups price after it's set, just months later, and does so with no prior notice, and does so without having the balls to even state it occurred or why via social media. That's purely hot garbage.

Look man. Here's the way I see the world. There are those that have no power. Those that want power, and seek to be beholden and sycophants to those that hold it. And those that attain or acquire power, all the while they're fine that the majority of the populace suffer hardships of varying degrees daily.

That's the way the world has, and will always work. The American Dream is designed to push people to strive, to be what they're not, to uplift past that, even though for every 1 Leonard, there are legitimately 100,000 that hope to be him, and never will. That's the American Dream, a delusion built to push us forward, give us hope where it often doesn't and won't exist. Thing is, I'm fine with that. I'm just not fine glorifying a wealthy banker as if he's a better or more worthwhile person than myself, or anyone on this board.

Sorry not much to say as this seems like a different personal issue and topic. You say you tried a career path before and failed. Never give up. It is only delusional to assume you will fail without trying.