Yeah, there's a good history of price decreases...

Distributor here will raise price when dollar falls but no decrease when dollar strengthens. They are good guys but let’s face it profit is profit.

AND that’s what this price rise is all about. PROFIT WITH A CAPITAL $$$ and they can but we don’t have to like it. Vote with your absence if it’s bothering you that much guys.

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Not sure if this is a short one hit wonder or not. As a company, JJP has not been very clever on their company budgets, so they’ve passed that cost onto us, the consumer. Only making 6 games in nearly a dozen years, means they’ve not made much money and have churn and burned dollars like no tomorrow. This $1,000 increase is more evidence of that behavior.

I tend to buy companies products the are more tightly priced to responsible corporate spending. MSRPs from that type of a company do not tend to inflate so rapidly. WOZ originally sold for $6500 and nearly a dozen years later their sixth machine is now selling for $7,000 more than that number. That is evidence of irresponsible fiscal spending as a company and not having a clue how to stay competitive. It’s not greed, it is the fact that there have been so few releases and having to pay for ballooning company costs, as if they had double or triple those 6 releases. If JJP had released say 18 games over the last 10 years plus, they’d not be asking for more money right now, because their profitability would have been very good. As consumers, we are paying for this rudderless financial fiasco course JJP has been on since its inception, through a ridiculously rising, higher and higher pricing business model.

With no stable pricing end in sight for JJP, unless they can finally begin releasing 3 or more games a year to become profitable. JJP needs to have two lines and keep them moving all the time to bring costs down, through greater numbers being sold. All present day JJP consumers will continue to pay through the nose, much higher prices than should be charged by JJP for their product.

Not knocking the pin but just raising a possibility. Could it be while the CE's have sold out the other 2 models aren't exactly flying off the shelf, and I know its won pinball industry awards but look what happened with POTC. perhaps without the price increase this game isn't worth the production cost. I heard the same things with POTC (its a hit) (Best pin ever made) etc.

This seems like an odd basis for making purchasing decisions. Personally I tend to buy products if I want them, they’re available for a price I’m willing to pay, and I have the money to spare. The shareholders might need to worry about “responsible corporate spending,” but as a customer why would I care?

Not odd at all, because one must always think that someday they will re-sell. All companies usually make some good machines, so why not go with titles that will have good resale value, not just buy the new shiny. Care because, when they are way overpriced for what a consumer is spending, NIB buyers lose big time on the used market, when its time to sell. That is why overpriced NIB machines on the second hand market plummet so badly. In Oz, used JJP games don’t hold value, except POTC and usually go for at least a 30% drop from the MSRP price. Stern’s conversely hold value or even sell for more on good titles, because Stern is more fiscally responsible to the share holders and that in turn gives better resale values to the consumer as well, because of lower MSRP pricing (although Stern’s are too high priced for what you get too, lol). The used market factors this all in, when NIB people decide to sell. As an example: GNR is a good title, but a GNR LE will probably drop in value from MSRP $17,500.00 delivered to around $12k on the 2nd hand market. AIQ sold for MSRP $14.5k, but is fetching up to $17k on the used market already. Think 1 AIQ went for $18k here. GNR CE should hold value or gain however, because of rarity in this market.

I don't know where you're getting your prices from GNR is 15,490 here .

And when I sell my Hobbit I'll get at least what I paid for it .

Take a look at the distributor website, prices just went up. $15,490 is the old price. $16,850 is the new one, after the USD$1k increase. Plus domestic shipping, depending where you’re at, brings total as high as $17.5k.
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Hobbits have definitely gone for much lower than 30% here. Even Pinball sales was closing them out at much lower prices.

Wow.
I went and played the game and after playing it , I knew it was special and jumped right on it and I live around the corner from the distributor . Happy days

You were wise to jump on it early and with no domestic shipping. What a bonus!

Maybe , but now they're no longer available the prices have come right up .
Plus we pay more for Pins in Vic

Hope for you that prices are up when you get ready to sell.

This game is a keeper for me , unless they make the Blues brother's with all the bells and whistles , and I need the money .
Have you seen some of the prices here , 16 k for SS , 19 K for Metallica .
The prices here are mental , compared to the old games , I don't think I'll be losing any money

In a perfect world. The US government can’t keep printing money without devaluation of the currency. All my used heavy construction equipment machinery has gone up in the last year. Last time I saw this was 2008-2010. It was because of printing money. I think the same is happening now.

Yes electronic components are in short supply. Go to a micro center store. For example graphic cards are near impossible to find. It is slowly working itself out but higher margin products getting supply first. Wood is up over 30 percent in 90 days. Supply chain issues and additional regulations. If a home builder it is challenging right now on raw materials but demand for homes through the roof.

LOL.

Exactly

I don't need to go to a store to know what is going on with pricing of raw materials. The company I work for produces over 25 million tons of material every year so we use lots of raw materials. My point was everyone makes excuses for when a pinball company raises prices such as raw material costs however you never see the company lower the price when raw materials decrease. I don't fault JJP because they are in business to make money but everyone needs to quit making excuses for them and call it what it is, a money grab.

“It’s a money grab” - Chaka calling it what it is

People telecommuting means people build out their home space. People buy equipment/furniture/etc to carve out a work spot at home.

But all the talk about lumber, etc - that was largely about supply shrink and demand up. While staying home, alot of people last year focused on home projects/improvements. So demand is up, while supply was hindered by pandemic.

It's not really general inflation though - it's more industry specific... but many areas saw supply constraints, and challenges with transport too.

No, what hurts demand is when you can't give anyone a reasonable estimate of delivery... do that for a long period and people will opt to stay on the sidelines and wait.

Their production backlog is their biggest sales blocker.

I'd say it's a money grab if their bom had healthy margins prior to covid. Which...doesn't even make sense at this point, as they most likely pushed back launch for parts, and at that point price increases were already occurring.

Just ruffles me a bit, that in a year where most people saw massive hardship, unemployment and certainly not raises, while others saw insane financial gains, that this price increase is thrust on the consumer, a consumer that hasn't had wage increases during this incident of inflation. When that balance only goes one direction....

I already felt I was nuts at the $9500 level, and at $9500 even, I felt this offered me personally less than POTC. That's half the price of a car for me, easily. So I'm definitely priced out. Oh well.

The real answer is simple and just 3 words.
Fat axl hungry

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These silly prices will at least help with location play post-covid.

I’m inclined to believe the “sound and fury” theory many others have explored; yeah people will bitch and moan endlessly but in the end most people who were seriously thinking about buying will be able to rationalize the extra grand.

As many have said really, what’s the difference? It’s still something you don’t need that costs a ridiculous amount of money and you still want it.

Another 1,000 clams doesn’t really change the formula much.

I actually wonder if this doesn't have something to do with the number of pre-orders out there... They are churning out games slowly, with many pre-orders still without a delivery date--even for people who ordered the week of release--and by hiking the price $1K, anybody thinking of canceling won't do it, rationalizing the potential loss of the deposit, plus the "instant" $1K in value they get by keeping their spot in line. I.e., if you cancel your order today, you potentially "lose" $1-$2K. As their line gets caught up, if the game continues to sell, the hike will be permanent. If they drop off, well, I would guess it goes back down...

Why do you think this is so personal? They are a small company like many others. Yes I'm sure they had BOM pricing pre-Covid but that doesn't mean they pre-bought parts for 6000 games? They are a pinball Assembly company not a manufacturer. They are at the mercy of hundreds of part manufacturers around the world and the shipping rates that come with it. Your company USPS had a 10x positive influx in business but the rates still went up. I'm betting they are not sharing that added revenue with you via a raise?

Eh...I don't know, its not like everyone all the sudden had to run out and buy a laptop and a printer. People already had everything they needed to work from home. I am in a lot of homes so I kind of see what people are really doing working from home. I will say that stock in pants is probably down and stock in shirts is up LOL.

I will agree though that sales in construction supplies is high. I do a little work for a industrial supply company and they are doing very well. Even in my line of work as a contractor we have had our best year yet which was completely opposite from what I was expecting from 2020.

I stand by my original Gordon Gekko comment that for JJP "Greed is good" (although that could also mean gross profit) .... I am sure management wants to prove that they can turn a profit and get on a path of continued growth. In my mind if people pony up the $10.5K for the LE than thats just more profit where JJP can potentially produce future games. It sucks for people who were on the fence, but the good news is the market will be flooded with LE's so theres always a good chance to pick up a nice HUO game. What I'm really curious about is if this new pricing is indicative of future pricing? I've owned every JJP LE game in the past, but if this is their new MSRP on future games than I've hit the "this isn't worth it" point. For a bit I felt like a sucker for forking out almost $13K for a CE; however now it looks like a decent buy where if I don't love the game I can probably sell and not lose any money.....

"OMG...it's a cash grab".

Umm...no, it's Capitalism. They have a product in high demand that they can only produce a certain number of (due to the capability of their production line). Demand exceeds supply, so prices increase.

If their product was a flop (think WWE), the price would probably drop to move the over-inventory. Of course, then we'd have the owners who bought at the original price bitching that "they've just de-valued my machine - how can I sell it when a NIB one is cheaper?"

Will the extra $1K turn away some customers? Sure. But if they can only build 500 machines a month, who cares if they lose customer number 501 - they weren't going to have a game for him anyway.

This whole whining about "now I can't afford it!" is just crap. I can't afford a Ferrari - that doesn't mean it's unfair that Ferraris are expensive.

The reason for the price increase doesn't even matter. Maybe it's due to cost increases, maybe it's due to a desire for more profit, maybe it's due to a need to increase production capacity, maybe it's just due to poor planning.

The market will determine if the new price-point is reasonable - based on whether they can still sell the units they want. I suspect that they will still sell as many as they can make.

(and for the record - No, I have no stake in this game. It's hard for me to imagine a theme that is less appealing to me than Guns n' Roses.)

What?

Which word didn't you understand?

He was pretty clear.....

Jack and Co. and Gary and Co. want to regularly eat filet mignon and drive an S Class Mercedes. They’re not big on Steak-Umms and Toyota Corollas.

Whats wrong with that?

I think when people say they are “priced out” it runs a little deeper than just NIB. Every time that number goes up it drags everything along with it. That rising number in some ways justifies the rising cost of the used market. So when people say “I can’t understand why people need to have a NIB to enjoy pinball”, you need to understand that those rising NIB prices are making it more difficult for some to afford even a used machine.

On top of what u just said buying NIB is entirely over rated....I've bought dozens and after about 10 minutes the excitement has worn off. I could easily argue its better to buy a nice HUO game thats already been dialed in and u know everything works before buying.

You must've bought a GnR.

But seriously...I disagree. Lately, I've gone exclusively NIB because I've seen everything there is to see so far (although they are fun!), and every time you get a new game delivery, it's like Christmas morning.

Nothing.
I feel the same way.

I have a GNR CE being delivered Wed this week. To be clear I didn't say it wasn't nice, but that doesn't mean u get a better game....having a new game in your home whether its new or a nice used one is the same excitement for me.....

I'm not. Because I can live healthier and happier with $11500 or 12K in my pocket!

But I can say it's personal in this manner. I gross 60K sans overtime. So take home pay excluding bills is what, $35-$37 cleared? I already can't reasonably buy one of these games every 1-2 years. A 10% increase doesn't help that one bit, especially when my wages haven't increased.

Speaking of, if this was the "How the Post Office, my Management, and in some case my Union bones me" thread, I assuredly give them a good lashing! I'm fighting for more stringent covid prep in our facility, as we've had many cases over the year, 1 death, and 1 most likely death in a few days.

Not sure why so many of you guys defend this very optional entertainment product that is produced by very, very wealthy people. Let's look at minimum wage compared to wealthy elites in the world.

It was last raised to $7.25 in 2009...

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-us-minimum-wage-and-its-value-has-changed-over-time

In 2009, the wealthiest person in the world was Bill Gates at 40 billion dollars.

In 2021 it's Elon Musk as 188....billion dollars, with Bezos literally behind him at 184, and that's AFTER his wife received a third of his wealth.

So yeah, WE are the fucked. I'm not worried about defending financial leaders and them surviving this crisis.

Frankly, I'd be very curious what JJP pays line workers, and coders, etc.

Also, seems the increase to $15 is unlikely currently.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/02/06/joe-biden-minimum-wage-hike-unlikely-covid-19-relief-package/4419484001/

I far prefer the glorious smell of wood, paint, and plastic wafting from the cardboard box over that of stale cigarettes, mildew from someone's basement, or the smell of somebody else's Glade air freshener scent of choice that has burrowed itself into the cabinet.

I didn't say I didn't understand the words, it was more a case that I do understand it and its ridiculous. Since when does something just cause its selling well, apparently anyway, mean lets jack up the price by a grand.

Well, I guess that I can't say how it works in Canada, but here in the US that's exactly how it works. The Supply/Demand balance affects price.

$1K sounds like a big increase, but it's only about 12%. A 12% increase, or 12% reduction in the price of something is not unusual.

When you go to the grocery store, you'll see lots of stuff at 15% off. You'll also see stuff 15% higher (they just don't post a sign to draw your attention to it).

I dunno, depending on where it's been and if it's not too overwhelming, There's nothin' like the smell of old pinball machines when you open up the playfield.

Someone in Florida put their NIB GNR CE up for sale, $20K.

True dat. Especially the EMs.