I think a better comparison is stock R&M at $7000 + shipping vs a Stern Pro at ~$5800 with free shipping

Yes - that is a comparison.

But I made the other one just to clarify the RRP on R&M as several posters had mentioned it.

rd

The point of my post wasn't to do an A/B comparison (which is impossible given the different companies configure the games).

The point was I just bought a loaded R&M for "x", which isn't that from from a GNR2LE in terms of price.

I simply Googled his name. I doubt I'm in Miami with binoculars... though I'd rather be in Miami than chilly ass Pitts currently.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-rich-got-richer-during-covid-19-heres-how-american-billionaires-performed/

Bankers. Bankers are maybe even worse than lawyers? All I know is they have power, and I'm cattle for them to draw blood from for my entire existence.

Lloyd, has Leonard and Son helped you during your struggles this year, like he did years ago when he backed out of banking? Non billionaire Pinsiders did help you. Has he even sent a GnR your way....yet?

https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/sharing-the-wealth-leonard-abess-and-the-60-million-gift-to-his-employees/

Which interview? I'll give it a lesson. And Jack is a salesman first and foremost, of course he'll blow smoke up the ass of someone that helped salvage his dream.

Yeah, real hard work that banking. Manipulating others funds for profit, all the while surely evicting people from homes once bills aren't routinely met.

I'm not envious of wealth. To get wealth, you step on the heads of countless people like myself, laborers.

A lot of wild over simplifications and mis-characterizations in that one. When’s your manifesto going to be published?

Nice come back.

No need to take shots down at me. Wealthy elites use, abuse, and make their own rules. They have been for millennia. I'm not angsty, just expressing the way the world has worked, and will continue to "work".

No they haven't. And when you consider their many companies and employees. I'm sure they have other things to worry about. When Joe Harber was CEO, prior to COVID. He did offer JJP assistance.

I don't believe either was in charge of that. Marcie and Jen did. An LE. Unfortunately two weeks before the previous closing. ( I am back open now ).

Let it go. Everything they have, Leonard built himself.

Nothing like a price increase to bring out the class warfare and throw stones @ great people (like Lloyd).

Hopefully this pathetic thread will be shut down soon.

Read through the posts in this thread. There are posts reporting increases with companies they deal with or work for.

Maybe inflation ? Maybe with what is going on in the world with COVID. Which has effect much of the world, besides people.

when AP, CGC , and spookys next offerings come in $1,000 higher, perhaps then you will realize that it wasnt all in JJPs head.

pure imagination (resized).jpg

Price increases from Stern and JJP make American Pinball that much better.

I agree Nows the time.

So you can almost get 2 NIB Stern Pros for one GnR LE.

Interesting comparison.

Games have got silly expensive, but I sure would like a GnR CE

Exactly, which is why it’s great to have options. I would much rather JJP continue on their current path to designing/building games than to compromise everywhere to get down to Stern’s price point. For more price conscious customers, Stern is a great option.

I’m not completely sold on having this 1k increase due to the higher cost of BOM.
1k is quite an increase in terms of material cost.
Wood price increase?
Not like the cabinet and playfield are made of mahogany or top grade walnut.
Plywood isn’t rocking horse shit.
Manufacturers have the power to squeeze their suppliers and source elsewhere.
Also, loads of businesses have been dealt a blow with Covid, there’s a knock on affect. Company A takes a hit then Company B takes a hit, shit rolls down hill.........
You think retailers are paying maximum price for produce right now? Retail tenants paying maximum price to the landlords?
Everyone is being squeezed.

When Covid dissipates and everything stabilises in the future, interested to see if the pin price will go back down.

I wonder what the existing GnR LE margin is per unit on old pricing.

I would like to think the hike is to get the line moving - increase production rate, extra staffing, overtime, more shifts etc.....

I'm glad they finally got you a game! You'd be a Day One owner if it was me. Which, clearly it isn't.

I'd rather try and learn more, than drop things, given I'm at work on break, a cursory look shows Leonard Jr. inherited or walked into line via his Father, who seems a pretty self made man. Then Brett was birthed, and more inherited wealth......as bankers.

Still, it's rich that anyone on here would defend billionaires over average folk. Leonard Jr. Or Brett could have handed you 10 or $20,000 this year, like it was a pot to piss in, and toss out the window. They didn't. All the while you felt great stress and strain, and had to humble yourself to accept help from non billionaires.

I'll never forget how they fucked over Butch Peel. And they haven't exactly blazed paths trying to help dignify you as someone directly involved with the company.

Just my views, as a clear and obvious outsider. But really, Butch was absolutely dropped like a bad habit, and for what reason exactly...??? Guy was as dedicated an employee as yourself, to the company AND Jack, and man neither Leonard or Son helped that situation, and in fact I'd imagine they were responsible for that decision.

Screenshot_20210206-171253_Chrome (resized).jpg

Screenshot_20210206-171358_Chrome (resized).jpg

debt slaves have been leading a dogs life for years. the last time the 'working group' won anything to speak of was in 2004.
working group wins best in show 2004 (resized).jpg

Newfoundland's are gorgeous dogs. Lewis and Clark's dog Seaman saved them many times. Great working dog!

It just hit me that JJP raised prices so they could have holiday sales. Maybe one coming Valentine's Day. 10% off use "LOVE JJP" code.

whatever you do, dont sell JJP 'short'.

no telling where game prices will stop.

game stop short squeeze (resized).png

Whether to stay the course and suck it up or get out is a personal decision.

Inflation will rise, quickly. Signs are there. Prices on slot of materials are going up, quickly. Go to Home Depot and buy some poplar or oak. Wow.

That being said...

Buyers with a deposit as of a cut off date would of appreciated a forewarning, not an immediate price increase. This shows that JJP was immediately hit with much higher immediate price increases? How does a manufacturer get hit so hard and fast during production? Is JJP buying bulk like other pin makers? Or is this a reaction to the sellout of Stern LZ LE’s? Priced too close to GNR’s? May not be true but some may be thinking it.

Hey now. I've defended the proletariat too.

LTG : )

I would wager about zero people are mad JJP raised the price it’s HOW they did it people are mad about. First 1,000 increase is pretty out there. This pin was made during Covid the Covid excuse holds zero water. You announced a price 3 months ago. Second if you are going to raise the price announce it so your fans and people planning to buy one can actually get what they thought they would receive. This is bad form and bad business by JJP and they should know better.

I have zero issue with JJP raising the price in a professional way. This is bush league and unprofessional. I could easily afford it right now and I won’t pay it on principle.

That's because you ARE them. Me too!

Yanno I'd swing by, and play those games, and bring beer and dog snacks too....if but a few hour drive.

Yes, but that world really hasn't changed that much since Sept-ish when they last did this exercise on 'what should the price be'

The 'costs are up' is a POTENTIAL - but people are talking like it's a certainty for them. That's what people are calling out.. it's become a mention to now being 'its happening'.

It certainly could... maybe their LCD supplier is squeezing them.. or something. Something that takes a heck of a lot to bump your retail price nearly 10-15% in a single jump.

This really feels like opportunistic - not simply covering liabilities.

Yep.

I wouldn't. So Toy Story comes out and costs 1K more than GnR and people are fine with it? U might not get this response but there will be many an angry pinsider.

Not Fake News:

Reality (resized).jpg

In my case my spouse is a big pinball player and we pick out every game together. She was not as enthusiastic about GnR as I was when it was released so I’ve been working on her for months to get the game. K-Man finally had her convinced for me after six hours of his podcast on Friday on a road trip (thanks Chris!).

There is a big mental difference between four and five digit price stickers. Regardless, I don’t want to feel like a sucker the day I buy something that is supposed to be fun, and an arbitrary one day 1k price hike would make me feel like a sucker paying....it’s not only about whether you can afford something or not, but it’s how something makes you feel when buy it and that extra 1k makes me feel like a sucker.

Spot on bro. I stopped buying Stern LE machines once they hit $7,500 several years ago...that was the limit I was willing to pay in correlation to what they were offering. JJP offers a better product than Stern so I’d go higher, but now they’ve gone over the threshold as well.

Deleted.

This.

Can I afford it? Yes.

Do I have a mental block at paying $10K for a pin? Yes.

Will my desire for a NIB JJP pin overcome my mental block? I don’t know.

Exactly -

You're very insulting towards someone having a direct back and forth with you freely. Let's see, manifesto, creepy, weird. Care to throw out other descriptors towards someone you've never even spoken with?

And you're doing so, to defend people that assumedly, would never be on a pinball forum, and take time to hear and relate with your views, outside of a potential sale.

I said nothing personal, towards the guys, other than what's largely factual. I bought 2 JJP games, and found out afterwards about Jack being a part owner, well after that. In such a niche business, where I saw Jack as a self made man that I admired, I was dismayed to see big money come in and take charge, if even to save a sinking ship. Believe it or not, I'd be better off not owning those two games!

People are zealots following someone like Elon Musk. My links or assumptions are far from any level of bizarre preoccupation that others might take in that matter.

These men don't need YOU defending them. Trust me. And I doubt anything I've said here could ever ruffle their feathers, so why on earth would you care to leap to their defense? You. Do. Not. Matter. To. Them.

I traveled 18 hours round trip to see Wonka unveiled. From what I recall, Brett read his schtick, and left. He didn't chat me up that's for sure, and I doubt he gobbled up a Jersey Mike sub at the gathering. He has a better life than everyone here, and he INHERITED it. Defend away. Ugh.

I don't enjoy people in power. I see them abuse it daily, and abuse those under them. I've seen a coworker just die this last week due to management not caring enough in my large workplace. And another is currently on a ventilator.

If I could snap my fingers, and be wealthy like Brett, I would for sure! But people can't just pick their lot in life, and it's very, very difficult to rise above the class you were born into. Always has, always will be.

...and it's that type of thinking that will hold you back. Just sayin....

Couple of nice write-up's on Leonard Jr.

https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2020/05/05/leonard-abess-wins-lifetime-achievement-award/

https://truthbook.com/stories/service/leonard-abess-jr

Pretty crazy that he tracked down 72 employees that HAD worked for him, regarding that secret 60 million donation to them, which equals about 127K a piece. Gave money to everyone, even janitorial staff.

LE forsale $9500
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/109757

Spent the last few months pumping JJP and the quality, dissing Gary on the homepin LZ cash grab.. now I feel shame for both company's. I will never buy from either company again. Alien from PB will be my last new in box( unless PB come's out with another great title). Keep buying Stern< JJP guys, it's only gonna get worst from here if you do.

Sale pending already. That was quick!

Wesman, I understand where you are coming from. You do not want wealth, you want happiness and wealth has absolutely nothing to do with happiness. Life is about those small short moments and no amount of money is worth those moments. Find happiness in those little moments and just live. Focus on that and not what other people have spent/spend their time on. Just some friendly advice.

On topic. Where is the origin of these materials price increases? I don't believe it is covid related. A friend of mine worked in sales (large company so I won't mention what company) and I asked him how are sales? He said "Good but I need gas to go up." I didn't understand why until he replied, "So I can charge more to increase profit margin."

I didn’t say I never had any issues with my JJPs. My PoTC was unplayable out of the box and not for just one issue. But I was able to get the parts I need at no expense.
I did have playfield issues on more than one pin, JJP resolved that to my satisfaction. I didn’t have lightboard issues because the two WoZ pins I bought were 2.0.

I know my experience is not anybody else’s, but I have had more NIB JJPs than most, and I routed every single one of them with great success. You get what you pay for. I routed literally tons of sterns and didn’t have much success with stern support and parts unless I opened up my checkbook and also had to go through my distributor to get parts most of the time.

I’ve never been a “fan boy” of any brand, I am a fan boy of those who supported me and my operations and JJP definitely did that.

Put your money where you are supported. Support your distributors and manufacturers who support you no matter how big or small of a buyer you are.

I would rather better games at a higher price than ok games at a lower prices. Gnr is selling well. Watch the others will increase. All materials have increased.

"Better" is the main issue here. Round here "Better" usually means "more stuff."

Almost all raw materials are in short supply. Please look at the lumber market. All electronics supply chains are in short supply. With more people at home video conferencing etc it has driven demand. JJP it is about supply and demand. While no one likes a increase. I would imagine gnr still selling well. The stronger JJP is the better games will be. TAF’s success created many great games. Same will be for JJP. These companies are NOT non profit charities. The better JJP does the better the future products they develop.

True I am hoping better game play or themes. The rule set on these new pins is as deep as ever. If it wasn’t for JJP no rgb lights, no color large display, no wide body pinball machines, and no improved oem sound. Jjp did all those. Are they perfect no but I am glad they are doing well on GNR. Their tech support has always been top notch.

People video conferencing at home has driven electronic component demand. What?

Anyway, Im not concerned with the price of any new JJP machines since i’m not a buyer. Just wondering what is the real reason for the increase in cost of materials.

The pin would have to hit every one of my buttons. An all time favorite theme, all of the assets integrated in an amazing way, great design, features, callouts, everything. That’s the only way I say “fuck it”. Even tho I like the band & the game looks neat...and I like music games... I’m not remotely tempted to bite on GnR.

I must fall in love at that price & expect a game that will be bolted to the floor.

A jukebox with flashing lights

Then I guess when things get back to normal and the prices of raw materials comes back down we can expect JJP to lower their prices.