There are a lot of great cheaper games out there...Roadshow for example was my first pin many years ago and remains a bargain. Shoot, you can pick up DILE for a decent price!

Day 1 sale of CE I had one in cart, got sidetracked. Came back two hours later to complete order. Cart was empty. Said that was my fault I'll get an LE. Thinking no rush I'll order it in March and give me time to sale a game and make room. Looks like I'm out and it's not the increase so much. Look at the launch of CE and now this. Reminds me or Cool Hand Luke. What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Please understand that this is not price gouging.
This is a small American company trying to keep the lights on. They achieve this with higher margins.
JJP is not making small widgets. Unlike Stern games, these are large, heavy boxes with many bells and whistles, but I digress .

Everyone is paying for COVID in one way or another. Prices are being increased throughout the entire supply chain. It's now trickling down to the consumer. You're going to continue to see price increases on various goods this year.
For example, if/when you can actually find a spot on a cargo plane, air freight is far more expensive now vs. prior to the pandemic. Boats are also backed up at the ports, which is currently creating a logistics logjam on shore. There's even a shortage on cardboard right now. As some others mentioned, tariffs and the chipset shortage are impacting several industries, including mine.

The U.S. Fed is downplaying inflation, but everyone on this site can feel that the threat is real in one way or another no matter where they live. We are seeing it with food, housing, and raw materials. It shouldn't be a surprise that it can also impact a hobby like pinball.

Okay, so you are using auction prices as a comparison, that explains it.

Yeah here I was hoping if the 25% punitive tax would disappear in the next few months, I would be able to buy a GnR LE!
Now if the 25% falls away, I still have a price increase of about 10% over the original price

Will probably mean I’m out too...
Due to COVID we’re forced to be closed already 6 months in a row now without much lookout for change...

I’m really surprised that this is the 6th machine they have in production and once again they don’t seem to have the BOM under control?!
How can you be a profitable company if you don’t know what the cost is of your machine to have enough profit?

No.

It is not.

I'm not a massive fan of Spooky, but Stern, AIP, and JJP have major backers behind them. Spooky IS a small American company.

JJP can afford to not gouge loyal customers and still survive.

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His pinside ID should be Uniballer!

The inflation in the western world is brutal, and sallary are so far from tracking in, it's insame.

Here in sweden, when i started internship 17yrs ago, i had 34k a month, meanwhile the lunch cost 34sek.

Nowdays, the new interns get 41k and lunch costs 95sek.

If you were a normal worker 1970 eg. Teacher and negotiated getting paid monthly in gold, you would today earn 8-10 times more, then you do in money.
Young people can work hard all their lives, never getting debth-free.

It's sickening.

Out here too.same plan btw.
Honestly, the game seems in comparishion to be worth it, but the circumstances going in, not having the same deal, makes one feel like cheated on, which is not for me.
For me it's easier to muster 10.5 if im not at the same time, know i made a deal that's worse then other got.

To bad, since there are probably not many games around europe, due to the tax, so the chance of picking one up later is close to zero.

Haha. I didn’t throw shade at anyone. I simply stated that I don’t understand the opinion that rising NIB prices are going to make people quit the hobby (which assumes there are more than a few people that only care about this hobby if they can buy NIB games). That makes zero sense to me.

If all NIB games went away tomorrow, I think this hobby would still have the majority of its members left.

I understand the price increase, though I wonder why it's a flat increase across the board? 1k more for SE and LE? That makes no sense to me.

I didn't do a pre-order because of the playfield issues early on. Then I saw how backed up it was so I thought I'd wait, plus I was in the middle of a couple other huge purchases. I figured I could get a NIB in April or May.

There's no way I'm paying over 8k (+tax/shipping) for their stripped down version, and the 11+K (+tax/shipping) for an LE just seems over the top to me. I could get two very nice used Sterns for that price.

I've had 4 NIB games in the last couple years, but it's starting to wear on me. The NIB experience is nice but it feels like price gauging now, and to give in feels like I'm letting them take advantage of me.

Yes - I was going to be in early and cancelled my order just before sending a deposit. I wanted to make sure things shook out fine with early games and figured I would reorder later. $1,000 increase on the SE I was contemplating is a definite order killer now. No longer interested with price hike.

If you wait a year or two, you’ll be able to score a beautiful HUO GNR fir a price you’re comfortable with. There’s going to be a lot of these games out there and fresh meat is going to look tempting to a ton of collectors who are getting bored of their games

HA! I did the same thing. I figured no CE then I will wait till after I get my Rick and Morty and place a order for the LE just to space it out. But, Im out as well for a NIB. I'll wait for the secondary market maybe at the end of the year, next year or maybe not at all. Im sure there will be other good games to come out that will fill the void if needed.

I appreciate your point of view. I see it a little differently.

The majority owner of a corporation being wealthy does not make it profitable or solvent. The owner is not the same entity as the JJP corporation. If anything, the owner saved the company by investing a few years back.

I totally understand that a lot of people are upset about the increased pricing. It’s literally “10K by Christmas”.

I don’t think we, as customers, have any real knowledge of the financial status of the company. It’s really none of our business.

Smart. JJP is clearly not a wildly profitable business (independent of size) and I'm sure any investor would like to see them be more self sufficient and profitable. My loaded R&M was $9,500 MSRP, and GNR2LE has a much more expensive BOM.

I agree material through the roof. Inflation is here but still not reported. Wood is up 37 percent in 90 days.

I understand the increase and their call as an owner. The pin is selling well. The issue I have is the JJP are expensive to maintain. They have a great tech support team but I should not have to “deal” with game with chipped playfields broken parts etc. Buy light boards again and again. Woz the whole kits are not even in stock etc. I have had challenges with Stern but once the game gets sorted out it is rock solid. I am hoping GNR is a success that the R&D to launch future games will be there.

Don’t know jjp’s reason for the price increase but inflation must be coming. Ocean freight rates have doubled and in some cases tripled in just a few short months. That’s not going from a 100 per ocean container to 200 but from 4000 to 8000! Rates have shattered all time highs. When I have seen something like this (much less) in the past, wholesale importers passed along the increases to customers.

I’ve owned and operated 8 JJP pins I bought NIB. JJP tech/warranty support is second to none. JJP has been the cheapest pin to maintain for me and they have had the best resale value as a whole. I will say JJPs can be finicky at times but usually ironed out.

With the exception of the light board issues, I don’t know of any major issues that the expense fell on the owners.

Hands down. I’m out now because: (a) not worth explaining to the Mrs. why the games costs the extra money, and (b) id feel like a total sucker paying the extra $1,000 that it didn’t cost two days ago. No one wants to feel like a sucker and JJP just set it up to where whomever buys this game over the next few months will feel like a sucker.

Screw you JJP and whoever was involved in the decision to hike the price with no notice.

Yes tech support is top notch as I stated earlier. Unfortunately your experience has not been mine or of my local pinsiders friends. I am the local jjp fan support guy. Some will never go back as chatted with two yesterday. You had no playfield issues on POTC? You didn’t have to pay for the light kit upgrade $799 and the long hours to install. I am glad to hear that. I hope they have GNR all dialed in.

Gratz on the game. It’s good one. I will be playing it on location today. That’s how us small minnows roll! I’m happy with what I have. I never thought I would have more than a couple of beater pins. I don’t get why people have to have a certain new pin, 40 pins or a grail one. I have fun with what I have and that’s all that matters to me.

Come on Tiger. You have 23 games and many are very expensive titles. If you don't want to buy one now based on principle I get it but having to explain an extra grand to the wife just sounds silly. Plus selling Met and TNA would offset the costs of GnR.

I missed out on a very good deal on black Friday for a subwoofer and even though the price is higher now people are still buying them and not feeling like a sucker. Sometimes if you snooze you lose. While some on here will refuse to buy one there are plenty of newbies who are not on pinside that will buy one not even knowing the price was raised.

Just wait and pick one up HUO. JJP is making a shit ton of LE's and they will be a dime a dozen. I've spent a lot if time on both versions and while it's a good game it's far from the best ever like many are proclaiming.

Why don't you do what I did for the first few decades of my life then? Just play it on route or find a friend. Why is it something that you need to own?

Agreed I play only on route now. Sold all my games for big profits and now just hit the barcade when I want to play. NIB pricing AND quality are out of control so I find peace staying on the sidelines while other get caught with BS price increases and quality problems. I want to enjoy pinball, and the last few years on route is the only way I see that has worked.

Cheap to maintain?
I just ordered two pop-up plastic heads(hobbit) cant possibly have cost more than 2$ to make.
What do you think they cost?
Cheap to maintain my ass....

I don’t understand this. Clearly you have no issue convincing the wife to spent a boatload on pins you have nearly two dozen games worth in the 6 figures. What is another 1000? I get the principle of it but dont pretend the money or the wife are an issue.

I appreciate yours as well.

As a customer, understanding the motives of a massively infrastructured company is a nice option. Lends credibility to words.

When Wonka was unveiled, I was there. Saw this young, well to do guy give an opening speech via his cell phone. Later I found out Daddy had gifted him Jack's company. Not exactly something I admire there. Jack made the company, obviously with help, then was saved by a bored billionaire. Then his son received it, akin to a broke ass teen getting a hand me down Chevy.

Also, I doubt Brett Abess is sneaking onto Pinside to defend his decision or talk here out of intense interest in pinball or it's community.

To the points of inflation that people are making, I know in the midst of this pandemic, and working around nearIy 100 cases in our facility this year, that MY wages did not increase 10%. No hazard pay here either.

I did! I'm 44. I mentioned earlier how I'd need to play 12,000 games just to have this purchase make sense. Can't do that when I'm working OT to pay for these games.....so I won't!

I have no friends that are that into pinball... sadly.

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Yeah, you cheap lawyer with expensive games! Don't put this off on the wife or finances.

Everybody has their limit... TigerLaw reached his. Who cares what his reasoning is. JJP prices are ridiculous and he's out. I don't blame him. And TNA and MET are both great games...tough to part with either of those.

I view a JJP LE as a tier above a Stern LE in terms of what’s “in the game.” This is not a commentary on what games are more fun just actual “stuff” in the game. In that sense it’s similar to the price difference between a Stern premium and LE. Would there be the same uproar if they priced the game at $10.5 from the get go? Whether it’s worth it or not, if Stern can justify charging $1400 more for the extras they include in an LE over a premium I can certainly see how JJP sees an extra $1400 worth of stuff in their LE vs a Stern LE. At the end of the day a $10,500 NIB pin is not for everybody and I don’t think it needs to be. JJP clearly caters to the high end of the market and I’m glad the option exists to buy more packed games. What’s the point of JJP just cloning what Stern does in terms of quality/features/price? I think everyone loses out in that case.

Agree with Boob

Sorry I guess I’m not understanding your investigative poking of the Abess family as an investor? Bravo to them for making wise business and investment decisions. In America Anyone can do the same so while you can be envious why should we care how they spend their money? Technically they made a foolish business decision to save a hobby/company we all enjoy so I see that as a thanks. They (that invested family) don’t owe us anything just because they have money. Did they or JJP contact you to Share or refund the 60% profit margin your making on that JJPOTCLE you have sitting there? I totally understand your frustration especially compounded by (as you noted) an employee of USPS which must be a living hell as of late. The Company not the investor chose to make this change for an improved business plan and growth. Nobody will like it rich or otherwise but it’s what they needed to do.

Both have full assets which is nice, but didn’t realize R&M about the same all in.

Limits have been pushed before, then BM66 comes along and sells out with a topper.
Now those sell out for an extra 1k.
Funny hobby.

I’ll bet the smaller overall number of R&M being produced also made the per game production cost for parts a good bit higher.

yep, I said this yesterday. Be patient and prices will drop drastically over the next year or so. JJP will be pumping these suckers out like crazy and get all the bugs and playfield issues out of the way as well. Look at Rick and Morty is already dropping way down and people where paying stupid money 6 months ago to get one of the first off the line.

and up about 50% over 6 months.

the lumber package for my new house was $55k 9 months ago. If I bought it today it would be $100k. Inflation is really bad and you are right, NO ONE is really talking about it. Kind of scary.

Romulick, where art thou Romulick?

I love it.

Why the animosity towards Leonard or Brett ? Without Leonard there is a good chance that JJP would be long gone by now.

Yes Jack made the company. He was the one that approached Leonard. Leonard can be seen at the shows. And very far from bored. He loves pinball. I spoke with him on a WOZ issue on his game about the time he came into the company. When shows return, if you see him. Talk to him. He's a very nice gentleman.

Leonard didn't gift Brett the company. He does work for the company. And isn't a broke ass teen. If you ever see him. Talk to him. Very nice and a hard worker like his father.

And the company didn't just get up one morning and decide to screw people. The company resides in the real world. And products they need and raw materials they need have prices going up at a rapid pace.

As they keep ordering parts and supplies to continue production. And all of a sudden got hit with rising prices on these. Nobody gave them a warning or agreed to sell parts and supplies at the old prices.

Did you consider the LE's that were ordered before the cost increase that aren't built yet. Will cost more to build than those already built ? Yet JJP is holding the price on those games.

People buying later will pay more. Because the game will cost more to build.

Lloyd

Wait, Lloyd...were you expecting Pinsiders to NOT be judgmental???

I'm sorry. Day is just starting and not enough coffee yet.

I must have lost my head.

LTG : )

It is strange, as 'experts' are not predicting that inflation is going to be an issue at all in 2021.

Does the increase go directly to making non chipping playfields? Quality control?

JJP has to have received a nice PPP boost from the covid stimulus. I’m sure they’re fine, just unsure how to run a company per usual.

At least this time they have an excuse for taking a year to produce a game!

I see what you did there

Come on... that’s such a poor characterization. Go listen to Jack’s most recent interview... he sought them out.

I guess some people are jealous or envious, but you shouldn’t go around characterizing someone as a free loader with zero knowledge of who they are and how hard they work.

This whole idea that "they should have given us a month's warning" is just silly.

They raised the price for one of a few reasons - either they wanted/needed to make more profit per unit, or the cost of parts/labor to build the game has increased, or the production line is too backed up (or some combination of these reasons).

If they gave "a warning", people would have hurriedly ordered more units to get in on the "old" price. That would have made the situation even worse for JJP, regardless of the reason for the price increase.

They wouldn't have been making more money off of the newly placed orders, they still have the cost increases, and the production line would have been even further backed up.

And the idea that JJP should "advertise" their price increase is also silly.

Have you ever seen a TV commercial with the slogan "The same great product you know and love, but now with more COST!" ?

I respect what TL is saying. That $10k number stings. Tough one to rationalize. I just think back, over the years, how many times people have said they were out because of pricing or some obnoxious offering. They keep coming back... and have done so in droves.

I’m super curious to see how this plays out, tho I suspect it will be forgotten because of the next price hike we hear about later this year

I'm guessing JJP is going to be just fine considering they had people tripping over themselves to pay $12.5 for a CE and still didn't have nearly enough to meet demand. Stern seems to be doing just fine as well even though you'd think they'd have run out of customers by now going by all their past transgressions that have caused supposed boycotts (the $280 add-on UV light kit for Stranger Things, $1000 topper for Elvira, cancelling Elvira preorders and jacking the price $500, the $15k Batman 66 Super LE, etc). I also think it's much easier for people to say their out on GnR now when NO GAMES are available for probably 5-6 months anyways. I wonder how many people would feel the same way if they could go pick up a game tomorrow.

I think this needs to be addressed ... yes, Snarnoffs R&M was 9500 — because he ticked all the available options, like direct print cabinet ($999) etc etc.

The stock R&M machine (all the same gameplay features) is $6999 plus shipping.

That is the actual price comparison, $6999 vs $10,500.

rd