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(Topic ID: 278197)

Another Globetrotters Switch Matrix Question


By spandol

28 days ago



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  • 32 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 21 days ago by spandol
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#1 28 days ago

On my Harlem Globetrotters, I did a playfield swap. I'm not sure if my switches are hooked up correctly. I hooked up the yel/red strobe wire from the backbox to the left center spinner, to the bottom bumper, to the left bumper and then on to the left slingshot. according to the matrix if I follow in series, it should go from the left center spinner to the left slingshot, but the way this was wired previously that would be impossible. Is the way I have it wired wrong from the strobe? My left bumper is acting strange so I'm wondering if my strobe wire should follow a different path. Any ideas? Or could someone with a HG tell me how the left center spinner connects to the bottom bumper and left bumper?
Thanks vey much.

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#2 28 days ago
Quoted from spandol:

On my Harlem Globetrotters, I did a playfield swap. I'm not sure if my switches are hooked up correctly. I hooked up the yel/red strobe wire from the backbox to the left center spinner, to the bottom bumper, to the left bumper and then on to the left slingshot. according to the matrix if I follow in series, it should go from the left center spinner to the left slingshot, but the way this was wired previously that would be impossible. Is the way I have it wired wrong from the strobe? My left bumper is acting strange so I'm wondering if my strobe wire should follow a different path. Any ideas? Or could someone with a HG tell me how the left center spinner connects to the bottom bumper and left bumper?
Thanks vey much.

From my understanding the path of the wire isn’t necessarily how it’s written on the chart. Since they are ‘daisy-chained’, they are all connected together. More like parallel than series (see schematic).

What’s the issue with your left bumper?

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#3 28 days ago
Quoted from emsrph:

From my understanding the path of the wire isn’t necessarily how it’s written on the chart. Since they are ‘daisy-chained’, they are all connected together. More like parallel than series (see schematic).
What’s the issue with your left bumper?[quoted image]

Thanks. There are different paths, but I wasn’t sure how to connect the 3 switches since I couldn’t do it in series to follow the matrix column. The left bumper isn’t working and the switch isn’t triggered in switch test. But, the left center spinner and bottom bumper work fine. Maybe it’s not anything to do with the matrix? Everything is wired as it was before, except I wasn’t sure on how to connect those 3 switches together with the strobe wire as there are 2 small yel/red wires to connect them. I tried to use logic and my photos as best I could.

#4 27 days ago
Quoted from spandol:

Thanks. There are different paths, but I wasn’t sure how to connect the 3 switches since I couldn’t do it in series to follow the matrix column. The left bumper isn’t working and the switch isn’t triggered in switch test. But, the left center spinner and bottom bumper work fine. Maybe it’s not anything to do with the matrix? Everything is wired as it was before, except I wasn’t sure on how to connect those 3 switches together with the strobe wire as there are 2 small yel/red wires to connect them. I tried to use logic and my photos as best I could.

With the power off, check that the left bumper switch is making connection when it closes. Contacts may need cleaned or gapped.

Trace the left bumper circuit back to the MPU connector J2 pins 5 and 15 to make sure there is continuity. Have the connectors been re-pinned? That’s my issue most of the time.

Check diode and capacitor at left bumper switch.

Those are good first steps for checking the switch portion.

Does the left bumper work in solenoid test?

#5 27 days ago

I'm right in the middle of a Harlem PF swap and have just finished up soldering the harness back in
PF is still out of the game and I can take photos as you need or answer any questions

I have my switches wired as you do in the photos
Importantly, when I buzz out the yellow/red band wire, it shows continuity at every possible combination which makes sense as the yellow/red is the pulsed voltage and not the returns

#6 27 days ago
Quoted from emsrph:

With the power off, check that the left bumper switch is making connection when it closes. Contacts may need cleaned or gapped.
Trace the left bumper circuit back to the MPU connector J2 pins 5 and 15 to make sure there is continuity. Have the connectors been re-pinned? That’s my issue most of the time.
Check diode and capacitor at left bumper switch.
Those are good first steps for checking the switch portion.
Does the left bumper work in solenoid test?

I replaced the cap, but would the diode cause this issue?
The bumper does work in solenoid test.
Thanks for the info on where the connection goes on the MPU. I will check the connection there for continuity. Makes sense it might be that.

Quoted from MT45:

I'm right in the middle of a Harlem PF swap and have just finished up soldering the harness back in
PF is still out of the game and I can take photos as you need or answer any questions
I have my switches wired as you do in the photos
Importantly, when I buzz out the yellow/red band wire, it shows continuity at every possible combination which makes sense as the yellow/red is the pulsed voltage and not the returns

Thanks. Good to know I have it wired correctly. I was just at a loss as if the signal had to somehow follow the switch matrix chart. Since it's running in parallel to other switches on the same strobe column, I guess it can only run in sequence so much. In other words, it's not a perfect series.

#7 27 days ago
Quoted from spandol:

I replaced the cap, but would the diode cause this issue?
The bumper does work in solenoid test.
Thanks for the info on where the connection goes on the MPU. I will check the connection there for continuity. Makes sense it might be that.

Could be the diode on the switch. In addition to checking switch continuity back to the MPU, don't forget to check the leaf switch actually closes electrically.

#8 27 days ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Could be the diode on the switch. In addition to checking switch continuity back to the MPU, don't forget to check the leaf switch actually closes electrically.

How would I do this? The switch is spaced correctly but it doesn't show in switch test when I manually close it. I'm going to work on it now. I will change out the diode.

#9 27 days ago
Quoted from spandol:

How would I do this? The switch is spaced correctly but it doesn't show in switch test when I manually close it. I'm going to work on it now. I will change out the diode.

Power OFF. Put your meter on continuity (or resistance ohms). Connect one lead to each of the two leaf switch contacts. Should get a beep or zero ohms when you manually close the switch.

#11 27 days ago

Thanks very much for this.
I just found that the diode on the left bumper is in the wrong direction. It wasn’t me since I didn’t change those out.

Maybe that’s the issue, but if not, I will check the rest out.

#12 27 days ago

Wish I would have seen that before posting, but putting a new diode in the correct direction fixed it. I do appreciate all the help.

Thanks!

#13 27 days ago
Quoted from spandol:

Wish I would have seen that before posting, but putting a new diode in the correct direction fixed it. I do appreciate all the help.
Thanks!

Awesome!

#14 26 days ago
Quoted from spandol:

Wish I would have seen that before posting, but putting a new diode in the correct direction fixed it. I do appreciate all the help.
Thanks!

Excellent. Glad you got it solved.

#15 23 days ago

Here's another issue I could use some help on. If you look at the matrix, I was having the the right sling fire when both the first and last drop target were down and I hit the left center spinner. On the matrix, I figure its a bad diode. So, I replaced all the diodes on those 4 switches. Problem is, that must not have been the issue because the right sling still fires under the same circumstance. What am I missing? Is there another box I could make from the switches?

Thanks!

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#16 23 days ago

Bump

#17 23 days ago
Quoted from spandol:

Here's another issue I could use some help on. If you look at the matrix, I was having the the right sling fire when both the first and last drop target were down and I hit the left center spinner. On the matrix, I figure its a bad diode. So, I replaced all the diodes on those 4 switches. Problem is, that must not have been the issue because the right sling still fires under the same circumstance. What am I missing? Is there another box I could make from the switches?
Thanks!

There may be some row/column thing going on that is obvious to someone else.
If no one smarter comes along you could be a wiring error or short. You could manually close each switch and see what registers in the diagnostic switch test (5 presses of self test button inside coin door). See pinwiki for how to do this- https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Switch_problems

#18 23 days ago

They all work and give the correct switch number.

I’ll see if there could be any shorts in the wiring with those rows.

Thanks.

#19 23 days ago
Quoted from spandol:

I was having the the right sling fire when both the first and last drop target were down and I hit the left center spinner.

Draw the box linking those four related switches on the switch matrix. The phantom switch activation you get at the right slingshot is a short circuit fault at the switch on the opposite corner of the box, in this case the top drop target at switch #1.

HarlemGlobeTrotters_SwitchIssue.png

#20 22 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Draw the box linking those four related switches on the switch matrix. The phantom switch activation you get at the right slingshot is a short circuit fault at the switch on the opposite corner of the box, in this case the top drop target at switch #1.
[quoted image]

Thanks Quench. I checked there, and there doesn't seem to be an issue. Should I check the strobe line up to the backbox and check for any short possibilities? One thing I did do, which I didn't think would be an issue, but may be. The bare wire that connects the drop targets broke on the D target. I wasn't able to re-solder it, so I cut it and replaced the wire from C to D with the same bare wire I use for the lights. Was this a mistake? I wouldn't think so, but wanted to mention it since it is the target that you said is the culprit.

#21 22 days ago

Bump for the evening.

#22 22 days ago

Wouldn’t hurt to check the wire back to see if there is a short. Is the D target the first stop in the chain?

Post a picture of the target switch. Maybe someone will see something wrong with it.

#23 22 days ago

Ok, I’ll do that. It’s the last drop target in the line. Here’s a photo.

41BAF62E-231F-4579-9CCE-2D534CF16990 (resized).jpeg
#24 22 days ago
Quoted from spandol:

Thanks Quench. I checked there, and there doesn't seem to be an issue.

Check it with your multi-meter.
With the game off, and your multi-meter set to resistance mode (200 Ω scale if your meter isn't auto-scaling) how much resistance do you read across the two wires (white-red to white-green) on that drop target switch?
Do any of those wires measure zero ohms resistance to the drop target cage?

Can you post some clear pictures of that switch including from the other side on so we can clearly see the switch leaf separation, the gaps and how they are stacked in the bakelite.

Quoted from spandol:

I wasn't able to re-solder it, so I cut it and replaced the wire from C to D with the same bare wire I use for the lights. Was this a mistake?

I wouldn't think so.

#25 22 days ago

It reads .4 resistance if I did it correctly. Is it just putting the probes to each lug with the wires? Forgive me but I’m not experienced with measurement stuff except for voltage and testing diodes.

Here’s a couple more photos. Not pretty I realize, but it’s tough to get in close to the back target. Will re do once this is solved. I’m anal retentive about good soldering. Everything is separated and not touching the cage.

23ABB9E9-904C-4BD5-8551-0FBECBE67A18 (resized).jpegB2026D66-BD17-457B-922A-7ABB161B3118 (resized).jpeg
#26 22 days ago
Quoted from spandol:

It reads .4 resistance if I did it correctly.

Well 0.4 ohms is a short circuit..

I don't see enough detail in the pictures, but you may be missing the isolator between the two diode lugs - i.e. the two diode lugs might be sandwiched against each other in the switch stack causing the short.

#27 22 days ago

Here’s a couple of others. Looks like an isolator is there?

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#28 22 days ago

They could be sandwiched together. I’ll have to disassemble to see.

#29 22 days ago
Quoted from spandol:

They could be sandwiched together. I’ll have to disassemble to see.

I can see in that last picture they are sandwiched together.

Move the lug with the white-red wires onto the other side of the thin isolator where the paper separator is - closely inspect another switch if you need to see how they're properly stacked.

#30 22 days ago

BTW, that white-red wire lug must not be touching any other metal part in that stack.

#31 22 days ago

Ok, I’ll take it off and get that insulator in between them. Ill follow another of the switches as a guide. I’ll also clean it all up and resolder correctly.

Thanks very much for your help!

#32 21 days ago

That was the issue Quench, thanks for pointing it out. All is good now! Thanks to you and Emsrph for your help.

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