Assumptions... You know for a FACT what their operating costs are? It's all good, just trying to understand where you're coming from.

I agree, the bickering back and forth it causes on forums can be pretty annoying but there is also a flip side to that. The LE profits for Stern help them deliver improving Pro models for well under what anyone else can produce a NIB pin for. So I am not sure which way I stand on that because I think having a NIB Pro model around $4500-$4600 is very important to keeping pinball alive for the foreseeable future. No other manufacturer is providing such an affordable base model. I really have to applaud Stern for having the foresight to know that offering a more affordable NIB pin to the public is pretty important for pinball.

I see your point there. Sort of a blessing and a curse in that respect.

To a lot of us $8K is a heck of a lot of money, period. I paid less than that when I factory-ordered a 1976 Limited Edition (black with gold trim and tinted T-tops) Trans Am back in 1976. And even now, two or three pinball machines at $8K each cost more than a lot of cars. It really is insane.

$8K is the going rate for MMRLE because of the cost of JJP's WOZ and TH, Stern's STLE, and the extremely high price of CQ used original 1997 MM pins. That $8K going rate is why PPS is making MMRLE. If the going rate for the others was only $6K then PPS may not have even considered doing MMRLE.

However, everyone that does purchase any new pinball machine for around $8K is an enabler. If there weren't enough enablers, then the manufacturers would have to set their price point lower (although game content might then suffer). I suspect the people complaining the loudest about the $8K price tag are those who cannot do $8K for what is just a fabulous toy, but who would somehow drop $5K to $6K on it if the price was more reasonable.

Well you can call buyers that or just people that love pinball and enjoy buying new pins that can afford to do so. Without buyers there is no new pinball machines being made. So I guess point the finger if you want but I don't think that is totally accurate.

It seems like sometimes those that cannot afford a certain pin are constantly looking for someone to blame for them not being able to buy it. The market is what it is I see no reason why someone that can afford to do so should not buy a new pin if they love it. There are plenty of more affordable pins to be had if you can't afford an expensive one just move on and find one you can afford no need to hate on buyers of high priced pins IMO.

Was your salary less than too ?

I remember when you could buy a house for what a car costs now.

Times change, things change.

And no matter what your budget, there is more available for pinball in parts and mods, etc. etc., than ever before.

And the higher prices has made possible games we'd never thought we'd see ever see made.

LTG : )

Yup. 1971 my parents bought their house for about $30,000. Now its worth about $350,000.

An earler post of mine noted that I have a MMRLE on order, so I am one of the enablers. I was just evaluating the circumstances, not criticizing us enablers.

More relevant was my point that you can still buy a car for the price of 2 new LE pins (like a WOZLE and a MMRLE). That's the scary part.

Isn't the 2014 Trans Am around 30K ? That would be 3 1/2 pinball LE's.

I wonder which will depreciate faster ?

LTG : )

Because they aren't using his ramps, so he's gonna have to wait a year or two to start collecting our money.

Yeah, wow...memories. My parents bought the house in 1970 for $68k.....just sold last year for $1.1M.

Dude,

I like what you said. What the hell are we suppose to do? Not spend $8K on a new MM? $8K for a NIB MM is nothing compared to the $12K routed crap that was being peddled before the announcement.

Let's not all jump on the $8K NIB is crazy band wagon. If people with blown out MM's were selling them for $4K, there is no way the NIB would be $8K. Forget Stern, JJP, PPS and whoever the hell else, at least they are MAKING something. speculators and greedy pricks have by enlarge taken over. Speculators took over, and the supply dried up. The supply dried up, prices went up, more speculators hopped on board trying to make a quick buck.

Littlecami, I get what you're saying though. In an ideal world nobody would pay it and prices would come down. But we all know that's not realistic, right?

No worries, nothing wrong with exchanging opinions. No, I don't know the exact costs but I do know within a small plus or minus window. I'm currently involved in a possible machine build and I've got the entire list of part manufacturers and vendors for parts. I have the original Williams BOM list for MM and cost. Yes, I know it's old cost but I am able to update the pricing on about 85% of it. The other 15% is an estimate. Now that we've seen the photo's of how it's being built the new machine has a lower part list than the original. The BOM for the boards alone is significantly lower which offsets the higher price for many of the increased part pricing. Knowing the cost to manufacture most of the parts and other factors I can say my estimate of $3500 is very close. If I'm off I'd bet I'm a little high.

End of the day, you're correct the price to build has nothing to do with the final market value. I just put that out there to compare with the build of the WOZ. The original MM cost less than $2500 and it sells for up to $15,000.

If you're getting the MMR I really hope you're happy with it.

Cheers.

Thanks, I am purchasing a MMLE, but I don't like Kool-Aid I think it can suck, but for reasons that are 100% different than most people here.

Most people here would rather Vacation America this, or Beagle Board that. Rick and PPS can do an amazing job on this, I have no doubt about it. There are SO many things we don't know, and I do feel like I'm gambling here.

Maybe I'm just naive, but for all the people citing the costs and the money, I think that is exactly why MMLE is going to kick ass. PPS and Chicago Gaming CAN'T mess this up, there is too much money at stake for future remakes. Also, take this with a huge grain of sale, but PPS and Chicago Gaming WON'T screw this up because I think they care. I think there are a hell of a lot easier ways to make a million bucks, you don't buy the Williams rights and build units for a dying industry unless you care.

Damn, I hope I don't eat these words, I might. I feel like I gambled on AC/DC, I bought it NIB with no code, it was barely playable and I feel like I won. I'm hoping in a couple months, I really think in a couple months, the game will be made public and all will be right.

HEP builds new cabs for people all the time and there are people building MM's in their basements, I know of two people in my area. If these guys can build a damn near perfect MM in their basement, Chicago Game can certainly do it with an assembly line.

I hope PPS and everyone involved is making a killing, I think it would help the passion for the project.

I'll get off my soap box now.