(Topic ID: 194323)

GI problem


By sscnz

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 13 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by sscnz
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

Hi All, this is the last of the issues I have found on my new machine. Would really appreciate some input on nxt troubleshooting step.

Symptom:
Backbox GI lamps connected to green and yellow wires aren't working (lamps connected to purple works).
Lower playfield lights (such as inlanes etc.) connected to the yellow wires aren't working.

I have followed the excellent pinwiki guide here: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Introduction

What I have done so far:

Connectivity tests:
J120 pin 3 to Triac Q14 tab - OK
J120 pin 9 to J115 pin 6 - OK
J115 pin 11 to Triac Q14 pin 1 - OK
J115 pin 6 to J120 pin 9 - OK

J121 pin 3 to J120 pin 3 - OK
J121 pin 9 to J120 pin 9 - OK

Lower board GI Lamp sockets
Lamp socket to J120 pin 9 - OK
Lamp socket to J120 pin 3 - OK

Voltage tests:
J120 cable connector pin 3 and J120 cable connector pin 9 (yellow) - 0v
J120 cable connector pin 2 and J120 cable connector pin 8 (orange) - 6-7v
J120 cable connector pin 1 and J120 cable connector pin 7 (brown) - 6-7v

J121 cable connector pin 6 and J121 cable connector pin 11 (purple) - 6-7v
J121 cable connector pin 5 and J121 cable connector pin 10 (green) - 2.3v Huh?!
J121 cable connector pin 3 and J121 cable connector pin 9 (yellow) - 0v

J115 cable connector pin 3 and J115 cable connector pin 11 - 6-7v

I have also tested related fuses, F108, 107, 106, 109, 110. All good. I'm slightly puzzled why I get half the voltage on the green wires?!

While doing the troubleshooting I also found the J115 pin 10, 11 and 12 are slightly melted (black) so I need to order and replace the 12 pin connector, cable and board. But, going through the test it does look like these are still working and connect to the correct places.

J115 seems to have all the right voltages and I do have connectivity between J115 pin 6 through the F108 fuse to J120 pin 9 as well as from J115 pin 11 through the Q14 Triac and then down to J120 pin 3. hmmm. I guess a possibility is that the Q14 Triac is broken? Is there a way to test this?

Any input/guidance is appreciated! =)

Thanks all!!

/Stefan

#2 2 years ago

Hi,

I would check after connector replacement, but as a first test, are you well testing in Vac and not Vdc ? It makes me think it is the case as you measure pin by pin.
In game mode, do you get AC voltage of 6,8Vac on the 3 circuit of j120 (measure between the 6,8 Vac pin and the corresponding return on the connector). Also on J121 for the backbox.

the triacs should be good, there is one per circuit, it would be strange if multiple triacs are out.

The burned connector should be the issue

#3 2 years ago

V=I x R....mr ohms law....check the resistance of the yellow pin from the connector back to the board! You already stated the connector is burnt! Most likely the wire has suffered heat damage as well. The harder the current has to work to get through the yellow wire and burnt pin/connection the low voltage on the end is the result. Check the resistance, then check the voltage on the input side of the connector...probably the voltage drop you are missing resides in corrupt yellow wire and connector....back up...follow the resistive path and ya gonna see exactly how or what is acting like a big resistor in the circuit. Just a few ohms makes a big difference...compare the resistive value to the other pins in the connector....really ya should have checked resistance first!

#4 2 years ago

Got your PM Thunderfoot. I am the wrong addressee, you should send it to the OP. By the way, I disagree with the principle of helping people and ask for money.

Regarding the OP issue, plse let him change the connector first and see what happens.

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from jimy_speedt:

with the principle of helping people and ask for money.

You might need help one day thunderfoot. Just saying.

#6 2 years ago

Never mind. Saw the thread title and thought you just moved next door to a military base.

#7 2 years ago

Fine for me. Nothing personal. I do not intend to question this further than showing I am surprised. Peace, love and pinball

#8 2 years ago

I think maybe someone misunderstood my intent. I offered the fix for free! I did not offer a board fix for free! However, I did offer to aid in that regard for a donation. Even that is left to the individual that phones. I do however post free air-time daily on several other sites! Considering what I do and the level, I really do not think a small donation is unheard of. Would ya rather donate 20 bucks and fix a 250 dollar board, or muck it up and have to buy one? Personally I would love to of had an opportunity like that in the day. I am not a young man....and have several health issues that require many doctors help. They essentially donate time for me and hundreds of others. I use the services weekly and I am quite glad to have that opportunity. But, each and every time I leave it is twenty bucks! And each and every person that goes pays it. I have thousands of schematics on files that I refer to. These were not free, some were acquired freely over the years but most came from Startek journals and pinball manuals I paid for. I presently own, and store hundreds of pins...likely to be donated one day to a museum....until that day comes this ole man continues to work in bad health to maintain an environment for them. Also...I think it would have been nice to post my message entirely instead of making it sound like I am raping folks. I've spent ten hours or more stepping folks through delicate repairs. I believe my message said...." I will help you fix the problem for Free, a donation is greatly appreciated!" I believe that is fair my friend! This very site appreciates donations, does it not? I also stated in that message my credentials. 45 years in the amusement industry, and, electrical engineer that you speak with. That is a very strong and dynamic duo coupled. The message I sent posted the fix and the methodology. Voltages were mentioned but nothing about Resistance!! Methinks resistance should have been measured before voltage but I did not see those from the posting. On a phone you can gauge an individuals ability to test and repair. In a forum it's very difficult. Presently I do mobile repairs in several states and rest assured my rates are half to two thirds less than my competitions. Peruse the pinball owners group and you will see that I offer a time slot for several hours every other day that is 100 percent free! I do this out of my personal love for pinball. I started playing at age five and at age 62 still play. I was repairing pins by age twelve, at least the e.m.'s. I am a dying breed in the Bingo world. If you own a bingo you know just how hard it is to find anybody...much less someone that is knowledge oriented with 45 years of experience. Feel free to phone anytime with an issue....my time is free....donations are greatly appreciated!!!

#9 2 years ago

Also, I might reside in Va. but I was born and raised in North Carolina. It was the poorest state for a long, long, long time. Also...."donation" does not necessarily mean money! Many people give me old displays that I still have parts on hand to fix, or a backglass that half the paint has peeled off of and so much more. Presently it is my main source of income. Luckily what I have is paid for. Yesterday I fixed or about to fix a SB-100 sound board for a later model Stern. They are troublesome for even experienced electronic techs. It caused some heartburn for myself too, literally as I do have major Gerd issues. If you can find this board....that is ifffff, they run about 160-200 used. The fellow I am working with, and this has involved eight trips to his home, might end up with a fifty buck repair bill? I sure hope somebody uses my service....phone 434-333-1171....SB-100's are fresh on my mind!

#10 2 years ago

Apologies mate, I understand after reading it again that my post was a bit tough. I have never seen this practice on any forum. What you hereabove explained makes your point clear. I keep my opinion but I should have replied in PM.

#11 2 years ago

Not a problem sir! I am getting crankier with old age. Lately folks are trying to buy my H.U. O. Pins at flea mkt prices bcause they know I am unhealthy. It has me more miffed than normal.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from jimy_speedt:

Hi,
I would check after connector replacement, but as a first test, are you well testing in Vac and not Vdc ? It makes me think it is the case as you measure pin by pin.
In game mode, do you get AC voltage of 6,8Vac on the 3 circuit of j120 (measure between the 6,8 Vac pin and the corresponding return on the connector). Also on J121 for the backbox.
the triacs should be good, there is one per circuit, it would be strange if multiple triacs are out.
The burned connector should be the issue

Yeah, I think you are right. I shouldn't really spend too much time until I change the two potentially faulty connectors (J120 had a terrible repair job and pin 10, 11, 12 on J115 are melted). I will order a new 12 pin connector today. I don't get any voltage on between the yellow wires on J120/J121. I get half the voltage on the green wires on J120.

THANKS!!! =)

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from Thunderfoot:

V=I x R....mr ohms law....check the resistance of the yellow pin from the connector back to the board! You already stated the connector is burnt! Most likely the wire has suffered heat damage as well. The harder the current has to work to get through the yellow wire and burnt pin/connection the low voltage on the end is the result. Check the resistance, then check the voltage on the input side of the connector...probably the voltage drop you are missing resides in corrupt yellow wire and connector....back up...follow the resistive path and ya gonna see exactly how or what is acting like a big resistor in the circuit. Just a few ohms makes a big difference...compare the resistive value to the other pins in the connector....really ya should have checked resistance first!

Ah of course. I'm beginning to remember my electrical engineering courses lol. My goal is to get this machine in top shape so will replace the connectors but I'll test the resistance in the weekend. Thanks!! /S

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