Oklahoma City, OK
Quoted from herg:Bill still has one of the GI boards, and I think he had a custom chase board made. He has been busy lately, though, and I haven't heard from him in a couple weeks.
Any updates on CFTBL?
(Topic ID: 68649)
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Scared Stiff
Bally, 1996
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Quoted from rockinganker:Forget it...resets have returned. Surprise, surprise...spoke too soon.
So, it's resetting without the board installed? There are very few ways a GI OCD could cause resets, so I would guess it's unrelated.
As for the CT blinkers, blinker bulbs often don't work quite right with GI OCD. Increasing their brightness usually makes them work better, but often you don't want to increase the brightness of the other lamps in the string. It is one big drawback of how GI OCD works.
Quoted from alveolus:Any updates on CFTBL?
No, sorry. I haven't heard from Bill for quite a while.
Chatham-kent, ON
Quoted from herg:So, it's resetting without the board installed? There are very few ways a GI OCD could cause resets, so I would guess it's unrelated.
As for the CT blinkers, blinker bulbs often don't work quite right with GI OCD. Increasing their brightness usually makes them work better, but often you don't want to increase the brightness of the other lamps in the string. It is one big drawback of how GI OCD works.
Thanks mate, I don't mind having standard 455 bulbs installed...great job with this board. So much better with smooth GI effects.
Quoted from Hougie:Hey Herg, Is there a chance that you will do the gi ocd for System 11s? I can't remember if you already mentioned that it won't work.
System 11 uses a relay to turn GI on/off, and doesn't do dimming like WPC does. The same approach could be used for System 11, but since there is not dimming to "fix", the benefits wouldn't be nearly as drastic. I don't have any System 11 games, so I can't really say that they don't need GI OCD, but I would guess that there wouldn't be nearly the same demand for it.
Quoted from rockinganker:I don't mind having standard 455 bulbs installed
Most of the time, I do the same thing. I do have a few blinking LEDs in certain locations where it doesn't really matter how much blinking they actually do. In my TZ, however, I use incandescent bulbs for the blinkers. If you were using cool white, they would stand out like sore thumbs, but I like most of my games warm.
4 months later
Quoted from herg:No, not really, and it depends on the resistor value in the bulbs as to what the real maximum is. I have ran both Comet 1 SMD and CT Frosted at 100% for 8 hours at a time with 1 failed bulb. Since replacing that one, later tests have not had any failed bulbs. The board stays nice and cool, even at those levels, so no issues there. The machine's transformer won't even bat an eye at 100%, and it will be far less load than a machine full of incandescent.
If you're concerned, you could measure the current flowing through a bulb at particular settings, then look at how the bulb is constructed. You typically want to keep the average current through a single diode to 20mA, though the PWM makes this somewhat difficult to calculate.
I was reading through this and never could figure out why you bothered with an "ideal bridge" when LEDs use so much less current.
Quoted from Det_Deckard:I was reading through this and never could figure out why you bothered with an "ideal bridge" when LEDs use so much less current.
Some LEDs that people are using are not as power efficient as the single 20mA ones. Really bright ones sometimes run about 100mA. 5 strings of ~13 bulbs each running at 100mA gets you to about 6.5A. Two diode drops through a standard bridge, and you're talking 13W of heat being generated.
Once you figure in the cost of a heatsink and the labor to install it, a standard bridge is not that much of a bargain when compared to the ideal bridge. The diode bridge / heatsink are also bigger, and we're installing in a small space.
I received my board last week and successfully installed it in my No Fear machine and can confirm it fully works. Unfortunately the game does not have a wide variety of fade sequences (it's mainly just when multiball starts up and when you hit the upper loops), but the effect is still excellent nonetheless. Naturally the board also smoothed out the standard subtle LED buzzing/flicker, and as such it's made the flicker of the LEDs in my playfield inserts far more noticeable.
The installation of the board definitely took longer than a LED OCD board install (or at least a Stern version of that board, I haven't done a WPC one yet), but if I ever got a second one the process should go a lot quicker. Overall I think it took me a half an hour to get it in. A good portion of that time spent was trying to figure out how I was going to mount the board, as due to how cramped things are in the left side of the backbox and with how short the included cables are, there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room.
Herg, have you considered making the cables longer, or at least giving an option at the purchase screen (maybe tack on an extra ten bucks to the price as an option)? The right side of the backbox on my particular game has so much space, no grounding cables I had to tape over and there was just a lot more room in general to work with.
Also, I have another question for folks that have both the GI OCD and LED OCD boards installed. Are both boards seriously competing for space, or were you able to mount both without any issues? With how bad my LEDs are flickering in the inserts I may consider purchasing one when they are back in stock. I may leave it as-is though, No Fear isn't a super high-dollar game or anything so I don't want to put too much money into it.
Quoted from akm:I received my board last week and successfully installed it in my No Fear machine and can confirm it fully works. Unfortunately the game does not have a wide variety of fade sequences (it's mainly just when multiball starts up and when you hit the upper loops), but the effect is still excellent nonetheless. Naturally the board also smoothed out the standard subtle LED buzzing/flicker, and as such it's made the flicker of the LEDs in my playfield inserts far more noticeable.
The installation of the board definitely took longer than a LED OCD board install (or at least a Stern version of that board, I haven't done a WPC one yet), but if I ever got a second one the process should go a lot quicker. Overall I think it took me a half an hour to get it in. A good portion of that time spent was trying to figure out how I was going to mount the board, as due to how cramped things are in the left side of the backbox and with how short the included cables are, there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room.
Herg, have you considered making the cables longer, or at least giving an option at the purchase screen (maybe tack on an extra ten bucks to the price as an option)? The right side of the backbox on my particular game has so much space, no grounding cables I had to tape over and there was just a lot more room in general to work with.
Also, I have another question for folks that have both the GI OCD and LED OCD boards installed. Are both boards seriously competing for space, or were you able to mount both without any issues? With how bad my LEDs are flickering in the inserts I may consider purchasing one when they are back in stock. I may leave it as-is though, No Fear isn't a super high-dollar game or anything so I don't want to put too much money into it.
The LED OCD mounts on the other side.
Offering longer cables as an option brings up a couple of problems. The first would be that I'd either have to build them myself or stock multiple lengths. The next would be stretching that ribbon cable across the extremely noisy power driver board.
If you have a game that makes it problematic to install on the left, please send me pictures. I haven't seen one yet that's not possible. The biggest problem I've seen is remote battery packs.
Quoted from herg:Offering longer cables as an option brings up a couple of problems. The first would be that I'd either have to build them myself or stock multiple lengths. The next would be stretching that ribbon cable across the extremely noisy power driver board.
If you have a game that makes it problematic to install on the left, please send me pictures. I haven't seen one yet that's not possible. The biggest problem I've seen is remote battery packs.
The only thing I can think of directly is the Sample/Proto TZs - the 8-Driver PCB was mounted over there, instead of up on the backbox next to the display driver board. This means that I'd have to mount it up *above* that board - which isn't a problem for the mounting, but the ribbon cable may not make it. (Luckily, I can make my own cable, as I already have made new ones for my game a few years ago.)
Quoted from herg:Offering longer cables as an option brings up a couple of problems. The first would be that I'd either have to build them myself or stock multiple lengths. The next would be stretching that ribbon cable across the extremely noisy power driver board.
If you have a game that makes it problematic to install on the left, please send me pictures. I haven't seen one yet that's not possible. The biggest problem I've seen is remote battery packs.
Ah, I didn't think about noise. I completely understand about the cable building aspect though, that would probably make it more trouble than it's worth. Just figured I'd throw it out there anyway in case it hasn't been brought up yet. 
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:The LED OCD mounts on the other side.
Awesome. Good to know!
1 month later
Quoted from herg:Offering longer cables as an option brings up a couple of problems. The first would be that I'd either have to build them myself or stock multiple lengths. The next would be stretching that ribbon cable across the extremely noisy power driver board.
If you have a game that makes it problematic to install on the left, please send me pictures. I haven't seen one yet that's not possible. The biggest problem I've seen is remote battery packs.
For what it's worth, my remote battery pack prevented installation on the left. I ended up installing the board over top of the power driver, and have had no noise issues with it. Works great in my JM:
By the by, if you want to do this type of install yourself, order these standoffs:
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?KeyWords=8438K-ND&WT.z_header=search_go
... and replace two of your power driver board mounting screws with them. That gives you a place to mount the GI OCD (the holes are conveniently the same distance apart on both PCBs).
Quoted from herg:System 11 uses a relay to turn GI on/off, and doesn't do dimming like WPC does. The same approach could be used for System 11, but since there is not dimming to "fix", the benefits wouldn't be nearly as drastic. I don't have any System 11 games, so I can't really say that they don't need GI OCD, but I would guess that there wouldn't be nearly the same demand for it.
Sorry to bring up such an old quote but I haven't visited this thread in awhile. I have F-14 tomcat, with full LEDs and the only time I don't like having them is when the GI flashes at multiball start, killing Yagov, and getting the reply score. Having a device that could smooth the blinking would be nice. Don't know if a device with so little to do would be practical to build. But I'm not an electronics expert so I don't know how much effort and material it would take.
Quoted from Geocab:I have F-14 Tomcat, with full LEDs and the only time I don't like having them is when the GI flashes
There are two options for System 11, neither of which have been officially tested at this point.
First is Craig's EnerGI Maestro. I think it should work given some cable redesign.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/led-gi-smoother-for-data-east
Second, I'm working on a dumbed down GI smoother for Stern games that should also work for System 11. Again, it hasn't been tested with System 11 yet.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/led-gi-smoothing-for-stern-wip
I know I want one of these for DM. I also have The Getaway and was wondering if there is a need for GI OCD in this one? Does this game use any dimming effects at all?
I may be in for my BOP as well because of the flashing when getting a loop combo. Plus my machine is rather bright (I bought with LEDs already installed.)
Herg, I saw on LCD OCD site that it does not play well with the Saucer mod for AFM. Will this new product work better with that? If not might you be able to show just how dim it makes the mods lights?
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:Herg, I saw on LCD OCD site that it does not play well with the Saucer mod for AFM. Will this new product work better with that? If not might you be able to show just how dim it makes the mods lights?
It works fine with the saucer LEDs. It's the expansion kit that has issues. Specifically, the super jets. I have the expansion, but I'm only using the hallway lights portion of it.
The new GIzmo is for Stern games, and it will not work with WPC games.
Quoted from herg:It works fine with the saucer LEDs. It's the expansion kit that has issues. Specifically, the super jets. I have the expansion, but I'm only using the hallway lights portion of it.
Thanks for the reply herg much appreciated! So it works fine with saucer LEDs and the hallway lights. I don't care about the super jets as I will not want that expansion. I do think I will be trying out your GI OCD kit though. Thanks for coming up with these devices to help improve our machines!!
I am a bit confused by having the option for GI OCD and LED OCD. I'm assuming GI OCD is for GI flicker and LED OCD is for insert ghosting. Is this correct?
Question for those who have gotten one for their WPC-89 game..
I notice the directions mention:
18. The GI power input cable can be found in the back end of the cabinet
On my TZ, this plug is in the *front* end, right near the transformer. Is the included yellow cable log enough to reach up to this plug?
Quoted from Coyote:On my TZ, this plug is in the *front* end, right near the transformer. Is the included yellow cable log enough to reach up to this plug?
That's weird. It's in the back end of my TZ. Anyway, that cable is 4' long. If your connector is all the way at the front, the length of the cabinet is about 4', so you might have difficulty. I'm not sure if you've already purchased, so contact me if you run into problems. If this is a common problem, I can have my cables made longer in the future.
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Quoted from herg:That's weird. It's in the back end of my TZ. Anyway, that cable is 4' long. If your connector is all the way at the front, the length of the cabinet is about 4', so you might have difficulty. I'm not sure if you've already purchased, so contact me if you run into problems. If this is a common problem, I can have my cables made longer in the future.
I'll send you a PM - haven't ordered yet; I'm in the planning stage. I'll forward you a pic showing my connectors. I have an early sample TZ, so it's possible this was changed around this time.
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:Thanks for the reply herg much appreciated! So it works fine with saucer LEDs and the hallway lights. I don't care about the super jets as I will not want that expansion. I do think I will be trying out your GI OCD kit though. Thanks for coming up with these devices to help improve our machines!!
I am a bit confused by having the option for GI OCD and LED OCD. I'm assuming GI OCD is for GI flicker and LED OCD is for insert ghosting. Is this correct?
Yeah, GI OCD basically allows you to re-enable the GI dimming feature.
LED OCD fixes ghosting but I think the most aesthetically noticeable thing it does is softening the on/off transitions of the inserts. It makes the whole game more pleasant and less harsh.
Quoted from Coyote:Question for those who have gotten one for their WPC-89 game..
I notice the directions mention:On my TZ, this plug is in the *front* end, right near the transformer. Is the included yellow cable log enough to reach up to this plug?
It's the same on my WH2O and the cable was long enough to reach to the transformer area. The cable might have to be dis-connected if folding the head down but I'll worry about that when I have to 
Quoted from mac622:It's the same on my WH2O and the cable was long enough to reach to the transformer area. The cable might have to be dis-connected if folding the head down but I'll worry about that when I have to
Ah cool, thanks!
I'm installing GI OCD into a Funhouse and I'm having a dog of a time (I'm on about the fourth hour). First issue is I mounted mine up slightly higher, so the top of the OCD board is even with the top of the CPU board. The yellow power cable is now pretty tight, since the transformer on Funhouse is near the front of the cab. The ground cable was also too short, so I pulled ground elsewhere. In the end, I'm going to end up remounting it lower. The mounting process itself was somewhat of a PITA, I had to photocopy the board so I could make a template for where to drill the holes, and it's very awkward to mount things on the backbox sides because the stuff mounted to the back gets in the way and it's also not a natural angle to reach your head or arms.
Now that it's installed, the fuse for string 3 blows immediately at powerup. No problems with other strings and no problems with string 3 when I move power and GI back to the driver board. I'm on my way out now to pick up a bunch of fuses to do some testing.
-E
Quoted from eli_lilly:The mounting process itself was somewhat of a PITA
I agree. Unfortunately, there's not a lot I can do about it. There's just not much space to work with. I have found that it's easier to stand on the right side of the machine and lean across. It just gives you a better angle.
Quoted from eli_lilly:Now that it's installed, the fuse for string 3 blows immediately at powerup.
My best guess is that you have a short. If you installed the main board over a ground strap, make sure it isn't touching. Also, pay close attention to the breakout board.
The fuse on the WPC power driver board is typically 5A, while the one on the GI OCD is 2A. If you're pulling current somewhere between those two, you could see the GI OCD blow a fuse while the WPC power driver board is fine. The fact that it immediately blows, however, hints at a short.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you're very frustrated at this point. I would suggest letting it sit for a while so that you don't cause any additional problems due to that frustration. If you need help, feel free to PM or email me for support.
I have yet to install mine, because I still need to buy a bunch of LEDs, but when I do I'm going to plan everything out and actually run all the wires and whatnot before I mount the board. I'm also going to try to find a way not to drill any holes.
Sorry, I may have come across wrong! For the mounting issues, the solution that you have made is incredible, and it's up to us as a community to provide feedback and discuss among ourselves how to refine the install process. I just dumped all of my experience during the mounting process so I could get feedback. You've already done the hard part of circuit and software design, the mounting aspects are something we can do.
With regards to the fuse blowing, I wasn't concerned there either. I really enjoy working on my machines as much as playing them. I did post that part out to get some feedback, and I was going to email you direct, but figured it would be more helpful to others to have the troubleshooting public. And it turns it you are exactly right about the ground strap. I slid a piece of paper behind the board and with a new 2a fast blow fuse everything is good. I'll make a plastic backing for the board.
In my eyes, what you have brought to the community with these boards is immense. That LEDs can now be used in existing games while still retaining the look intended by the original lighting programming is gigantic.
-E
Ah, good. I'm glad you found the problem. I install 2A slow blow in those holders, but a fast blow is fine as long as it's not blowing unexpectedly.
Later that night I had the fuse blow again after about 40 minutes. This morning I dug into the string under the playfield. Within a minute, I found where the wiring had been cut and resoldered. The heat shrink or electrical tape must've dissolved somehow because no sane person would've left two uninsulated wires right next to each other. The fact that it worked when connected to the original board was just a red herring and certainly the fuse there would've blown also. So it's patched up now and everything is good. Thanks for your guidance!
-E
1 week later
I put a GI OCD in my Demolition Man yesterday. Very pleased! I made a video on my phone, but it's only 480p. Stupid phone apps. I wish my computer was working. The video was recorded in 1080, but their program I used to do a side by side only outputs at 480 apparently.
Quoted from pezpunk:Yeah, GI OCD basically allows you to re-enable the GI dimming feature.
LED OCD fixes ghosting but I think the most aesthetically noticeable thing it does is softening the on/off transitions of the inserts. It makes the whole game more pleasant and less harsh.
Thanks for the info much appreciate.
Herg, I just went to purchase the GI OCD for Williams WPC and it says your sold out. Any idea when they will be back in stock?
I have an estimated date of 4/15 on the website, but I hope it will be a bit sooner than that. They are supposed to ship to me by the end of the week.
Quoted from herg:I have an estimated date of 4/15 on the website, but I hope it will be a bit sooner than that. They are supposed to ship to me by the end of the week.
Cool I'll keep an eye out thanks.
Quoted from jfesler:I bought the last 2 today. I'm looking forward to a couple more as well.
Share the wealth my friend let some others wet their beak a bit.
3 weeks later
Quoted from shimoda:keeping an eye on this coming back into stock.. Really wish there was an easy way to turn off backbox GI for any game during play.
GI OCD? They've been in stock for a couple weeks now.
Herg,
I played around with my settings and here is where I am at currently on my Theatre of magic
They seem good but can these be improved to an optimum setting?
Also ,I dont understand when the active settings should be used,and how to know they go on with the trough coil?
String 3 has a couple bulbs that flicker when set to 1 thus the different
settings compared to the others
overall I am completely happy with the product and it gives this game just one more wow factor.
Screenshot_2015-04-14-16-46-03.pngThere really is no such thing as "optimum settings" since a lot of it is personal preference. If you have B1 set where it doesn't flicker and B8 such that you like the brightness, that takes care of the brightness values.
The "fade delay" setting are there to tweak how quickly it changes from one brightness to another. For example, TOTAN has some very slow fading that looks a bit jerky if max is set to 10. I have mine set to 25.
The way you have it set, it will not change anything with coil activity. Checking the box under "Activity" will cause that string to use the lower row when coil activity is detected. In order to figure out which jumper location to use, you need to figure out which "bank" your desired coil is in.
I normally use trial and error and just move the jumper until the trough kickout triggers the "activity" change. Check the checkbox, set the second row of brightness values to something different, and start a game. If the brightness changes when the ball is kicked into the trough, you got the right jumper location.
If you're not into the trial and error method, here are a couple of tables that will let you map it out.
WPC95
JMP1 SOL1 J107/108/109 GEN PURPOSE
JMP2 SOL2 J116/117/118 HIGH POWER
JMP3 SOL3 J111/112/--- GEN PURPOSE
JMP4 SOL4 J113/114/115 LOW POWER
WPC89
JMP1 SOL1 J122/123/124 GEN PURPOSE
JMP2 SOL2 J125/126/--- GEN PURPOSE
JMP3 SOL3 J127/128/129 LOW POWER
JMP4 SOL4 J130/131/132 HIGH POWER
So, TOM for example, you look at the manual, and it says the ball trough drive is on J130, which you can use the WPC89 table above to map to JMP4.
Quoted from herg:There really is no such thing as "optimum settings" since a lot of it is personal preference. If you have B1 set where it doesn't flicker and B8 such that you like the brightness, that takes care of the brightness values.
The "fade delay" setting are there to tweak how quickly it changes from one brightness to another. For example, TOTAN has some very slow fading that looks a bit jerky if max is set to 10. I have mine set to 25.
The way you have it set, it will not change anything with coil activity. Checking the box under "Activity" will cause that string to use the lower row when coil activity is detected. In order to figure out which jumper location to use, you need to figure out which "bank" your desired coil is in.
I normally use trial and error and just move the jumper until the trough kickout triggers the "activity" change. Check the checkbox, set the second row of brightness values to something different, and start a game. If the brightness changes when the ball is kicked into the trough, you got the right jumper location.
If you're not into the trial and error method, here are a couple of tables that will let you map it out.
WPC95
JMP1 SOL1 J107/108/109 GEN PURPOSE
JMP2 SOL2 J116/117/118 HIGH POWER
JMP3 SOL3 J111/112/--- GEN PURPOSE
JMP4 SOL4 J113/114/115 LOW POWER
WPC89
JMP1 SOL1 J122/123/124 GEN PURPOSE
JMP2 SOL2 J125/126/--- GEN PURPOSE
JMP3 SOL3 J127/128/129 LOW POWER
JMP4 SOL4 J130/131/132 HIGH POWER
So, TOM for example, you look at the manual, and it says the ball trough drive is on J130, which you can use the WPC89 table above to map to JMP4.
Thanks Herg for the help . I'll will play around with the settings some more
I can load a board with defaults for WPC89 upon request, and I'm trying to come up with a good method to let you choose between WPC95 and WPC89 at the time you order without creating a lot more work for myself. Having two different items to stock, then reprogramming them when stock runs low on one, could turn into a mess.
Anyway, I could send you one already programmed for WPC89. The drawback is that if you like your game at a different brightness, different fade timing, want the backbox to dim while a game is being played, etc., I can't possibly know that ahead of time. You can run the configuration software on a Mac using a virtual machine.
Quoted from herg:I can load a board with defaults for WPC89 upon request, and I'm trying to come up with a good method to let you choose between WPC95 and WPC89 at the time you order without creating a lot more work for myself. Having two different items to stock, then reprogramming them when stock runs low on one, could turn into a mess.
Anyway, I could send you one already programmed for WPC89. The drawback is that if you like your game at a different brightness, different fade timing, want the backbox to dim while a game is being played, etc., I can't possibly know that ahead of time. You can run the configuration software on a Mac using a virtual machine.
Fantastic insight! Thank you!
This helps me get a better understanding of your technology.
And i really appreciate the offer to pre-program it with WPC89 settings (does it matter that ToM is a WPC-S board or is that just a different version of WPC89...i've always been confused as to differences between these two generations of WPC).
I noticed that Pinwillie (and some others on the forum) have customized their ToMs so maybe i could "borrow" their GI OCD settings
Thanks again!
WPC-S games have an updated CPU board, but the power driver board is still the same as a WPC89. The version of the power driver board is what matters to my products.
Quoted from herg:WPC-S games have an updated CPU board, but the power driver board is still the same as a WPC89. The version of the power driver board is what matters to my products.
Thank you for the clarity!
My Achilles heel with regards to pinball are the boards.
I'm a bit more mechanically minded but have been diligently working to better understand everything in the backbox.
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