I put 5 spotlights into my demo man after LEDs. The whole playfield has an even glow. There is no ball strobing, and the playfield is very bright in a dark room - much more so than it was when it was stock. Problem with LEDs in GI is that people don't use the right ones or spotlights.

As for ruining the art and using regular bulbs, I call BS. I think warm light is ugly. It's your game, put in it what you like not what some guy on a forum says.

I think the correct term should have been "Incandescencts" for light bulbs as opposed to LED's

OP is right. Artists used to slave for hours painstakingly designing beautiful artwork for our games. Every colour was carefully chosen to compliment the artwork, and to look nice with gentle illumination.

Now along comes a doofus and bathes that art in a strong blue haze, or my pet hate a massive splat of green. Now the art is 30 shades of green. Even the black is green. It's just pointless - if it actually looked good that way, manufacturers would have used more coloured bulb caps (like they did tastefully on a few games, like Space Station and Black Rose).

I do think they do a good job on some translites though which transmit too much of the 'warmth' of normal bulbs - the neutrality of the LEDs helps some of them shine. Doesn't always work, sometimes it looks too uneven.

The upside is at least the change can be reversed. I try to avoid the threads mostly because my opinion isn't wanted in them, but I see so many threads on Pinside where someone has puked LEDs all over the playfield, and it's just a travesty, except for a few exceptions they look fucking awful, cheap and ugly. May aswell just sand that art off if you just want to see coloured hazes.

I'm joking, don't actually do that.

I like them... Use frosted or retro for playfield illumination and match the insert colors to keep the game looking as correct as possible. When I became accustomed to seeing something evenly light by brighter lamps, the old amber glow of incandescent lamps feels kind of dreary and worn out.

It makes the playfield art more visible in my opinion, contrary to what system11 said. If there is a negative, its that the flaws become more apparent when well lit.

I can see both sides of this, but I personally like LED's. Since its a totally reversible mod, arguing about it is stupid.

Has anybody played with diffusion gels to try and soften the harshness of LEDs? It seems like it wouldn't be that hard to manipulate and manage their light output.

LMAO!

Amen Brotha!

I totally disagree I think most games look much better with LEDs in the GI. To each their own as always.

I know what system11 is referring to and I agree the worst thing that can be done with LEDs is colorising areas of the playfield Cointakers kits used to be some of the worst offenders, I remember seeing BDK kit and it had the playfield broke into 4 or 5 different coloured sectors and made the playfield look like a kids colouring book. LEDs used to enhance and brighten a pin can look incredible but I'm no fan of separating areas of the playfield with different colours, but the best thing about this hobby is it promotes and brings out everyone's individual tastes and no matter what any of us disagree on we all agree on one thing pinball rocks!

I love the way LEDs look when they are done with some artistic thought. Use warm whites for GI, for example. Don't just stick in the brightest LED of the color you want. On my DE SW I started with a Cointaker kit and made my own customizations from there. I ended up with a look I am very pleased with.

I'm kinda nitpicking here, and I understand and agree with what your point is, but you kind of contradict yourself when you say to use some artistic thought, then proceed to make a generalization of using warm white in the GI.

Some pins will look better with the normal/cool white LEDs in the GI than warm white. It just depends.

I can give you my address to help alleviate you of those burdensome LEDs. I need some of my XF Pin that is coming on Monday ...

led viking

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You just showed everything that's wrong about LED lighting. You have spots of light but the main playfield is a black hole. If you're going to light it like that you might as well pull the GI fuse and save a few bucks on the GI LEDs.

I love LEDs, but I agree with KindOfRadNow. Either the camera shot is taken badly, or the lighting on that machine needs a little time investment. The backbox isnt evenly lit either, and that has always bothered me about LEDs in backboxes.

I just put together the LEDs for my F-14, but I used almost 100 different sample LEDs to determine which looks best in which spot, instead of just straight up ordering a kit. I think it is going to come out fantastic. I was specifically trying to spill more light onto the playfield, especially at the top.

With the LED options out today, there is no good reason to just settle on a kit, or sacrificing light coverage in order to just get some nicer colors.

I love LED's but this little video shows that Williams took time to time to sync the 2 lights so the afterglow on old style bulbs would look good. LED's are not the thing here

LED do not photograph well with cheap cameras in low lighting. They only way to really judge a pin with LEDs is to see it in person. I love the way my Barracora backglass LEDs turned out, but if I take a picture of it with my cell camera it looks really spotty. I use the 3led ablaze in just about everything except backglasses and I love the way they look. They're not to bright and they make inserts pop without looking like there's a floodlight behind them. I also like the fact that its easier on components and I'll never have to replace a bulb again.

Get carried away, and Arnold will come after you.

Well leds are great they have so many advantages over incandecents I agree I dont like the other colored GI lighting myself in GI I always use either cool or warm white cool for more modern themed games like space station/Xenon but warm in other older style games
But leds take alot of adjusting you cant use 1 type or brightness you need to take into consideration insert size visability clear vs opaque inserts sometimes you need to use standard frosted and superbright to get the leds lighted evenly.
What people need to know and understand it is better for the machine in many ways top convert to leds.
1. Heat under all them inserts and plastics is what has warped the plastics and broken all your inserts loose causing extra PF wear esp around inserts leds will prevent this if anyone has had a fresh clear on their PF and look at the incandecents inserts they will raise with the head well if you keep moving them they will eventualy break loose or wear more becouse of this
2. Extra strain on the system remember alot of these machine have use about and have been in service for extended periods o time past their intended life span why run all the amperage through aged and harder to come by components?? when its possible to drop 75% of the draw off the system
3. If you like the more original look use all warm leds there are tricks to stop the flickering and ghosting as well like on older bally stern machines its a simple matter of adding 1.5k resistors to the affected led sockets
4 If a person can enhance insert colors why not do it? and leds wont burn out regularly like incandecents eliminating alot of stripped screw holes broken sockets from added maintnance assembly and disassembly.
5. also think of all them burned flaky backglasses this was all done by the hot incandecents cooking the paint on the glass alonge with the added infared rays generated by them.
In my opinion LEDS are helping save and preserve pinball from further damage for years to come

Well that realy is the problem ATM see leds are not true colored atm.
cool white is actualy super bright blue with minor yellow tinting for the most part
Warm white is cool white with darker yellow tinting
Yellow is Cool white with orange film this explains why it always makes yellow inserts greenish becouse of the amber filtering effects
Pink is also just a tinted cool white
Same with most purple leds Except the UV purple.
Its a matter of the quality leds becoming more affordable but currently I just retint the smd leds with yellow or orange to warm them up more they can be made to appear more natural.
Like i said LED conversion isnt a matter of just throwing them in but takes some experimenting and an assortment to look good and in backboxes leds are great but smd supers are the best way to go or led strips but you will need to add extra becouse o the shorter range of dispersion

Rob, I agree with what you are saying. That is why I added "for example" as it represents only one of many choices. In this case a choice that worked well with the playfield of SW. It was not meant to apply to any other installation. Sorry that I was unclear.

If you like the look of standard bulbs just buy all warm white LEDs. Saves on power, heat, inserts from sinking, etc.
Its all about choice.

I'm sure you break down the PF to clean everything anyway?? Take the LED's out and sell them...or donate them to the "JDub1006 LED's for free to help make pinball machines look AWESOME fund"

The backbox isnt evenly lit either, and that has always bothered me about LEDs in backboxes.

Try these at cointaker.

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It is and always will be personal preference. One guy will like bulbs, t'other will like leds. No big deal.

Mixing leds and bulbs is an art form in itself and looks far better than just bulbs or leds alone.

Ruining art you say? No, no. Improving its glory for our personal pleasure? Yes, yes.

AC/DC looks incredible.

Yep, did this to my Scared Stiff BG and the warming effect is Awesome. Whenever white LED's don't work, I go with the retro LED's. The retro is the best of both worlds.

I love them and use them everywhere. I think everything looks better with them. To each their own, another custom option that allows everyone to leave their own stamp on their machines.

It'snot the worst example i've seen, but yeah +1.

Which are the best bulbs to provide the best spread ? CT or PBL ? or someone else ? I am looking at maybe going Cool White for the 34x (44) bulbs on TRON.

I'm all about LED's. But there is a fine line between looking awesome and looking like ass. I've played some pins that were blinding, and some that look absurd with a ton of colors, but if the right person does it, it can be incredible.

Playfield art? What playfield art?

Way to take a totally improperly done LED job and show it as how it is. Here is how a properly LED demolition man should look. And note that its very hard to capture this in images but even this looks 100 times better than the previous image you circled in green. You will notice how it looks extremely bright all over, the playfield sort of glows, and there is no dark spots. This was taken in a completely unlit room with only the pinball lights running. Photo taken on my iPhone so it's also not that great quality. Unfortunately, the photo makes everything look darker and purpler than it really is. But at least you can see its even and there's no hot spot of darkness in the middle. I guarantee it is not this bright if you use incandescent lights in the dark room.
IMG_1211.JPG
compared to the original bad example:
LED_d_Demo_Man_033.jpg

I switched back to mostly bulbs on DM. I have some nice teal colored LED in the GI, some blue supers under the ramps... some of the inserts have LED. All the lower GI is bulbs. The gold glow from the bulbs mixed into the teal from the upper playfield is amazing. This picture does it no justice.

dm.jpg

I think some games look great, my Jp looks waaay better with LEDS, however a game like funhouse I would never do it I am thinking of doing the warm white LED thing since I like the extra light they throw.

My led example above has even more evenly distributed light in the middle lower playfield than this shot with incandescent GI bulbs.

LEDs aren't the problem. Colorblind Ops are the problem. I mean, I like custom paint jobs on cars. Doesn't mean I like that Pink Camaro with the teal racing stripes.

...but it looks horrible while Rascal's looks good.

Totally disagree.

I agree with markmon. His LED setup looks far superior to my eye. I guess beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.

Well, if anything- the REAL moral of this story/thread should be to buy a GOOD camera!

I have a Canon Powershot S95 that I use to take my pics for LED's.
The new Olympus XZ-1 goes down to f/1.8...

Both should yield good pics in low light situations.

I can get the same effect with LED's swampfire...

Hearing things like this just tells me that the OP (and the rest of the haters ) was running into machines that had older LED technology in them. The new bulbs from CT (which I prefer) and PL are a different animal. They can throw out as little or as much light as you want; keeping the spread even the whole time and thus- NOT washing out the art on the plastics.
The new CT 2 LED premiums are perfect for slings if the retros seem too bright or narrow (mini's work too!) and the warm versions of both replicate the incandescent spectrum to a "T".

Not to be an echo here but, experimentation is key to a successful LED job.

This is my demo man after complete shop out, wax and LEDs. People who have seen it say it look 100x better than what it was when I got it. They love the LEDs. They like how it really brightens everything.

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I love putting LED's behind a clear ramp and underneath plastics, I think it gives a cool glow. I can’t stand it when the LED is not covered by something, it is blinding and ruins the game for me.

Right now I have blue LED's behind the Whirlpool shot on my Black Rose and it looks pretty cool also underneath the cannon so it glows red.

In my Addams family I have a green LED in the swamp shot and it looks pretty sweet.

I think LED's can really enhance and game when strategically placed

How? I'm not a hater and I've got a pretty large collection of LED... but I've never been able to replicate the glow of bulbs. Warm white frosted don't have the same effect for me. I like to mix it up.

I just did all of my STTNG in LED. I think the machine needs them. The white frosted I had in the modes were too bright so I put bulbs back in. I might order up some cool white minis.

Yeah, Iphone pics kinda stink. I have better cameras laying around but too lazy to use something that I have to deal with a memory card, hah.

I think that Demolition Man looks great other than the sling shots. It is way to bright down by the flippers where you have to concentrate.