Size Matters here too.

If I had room for like 20 machines, I think TH would have to have a place. It's unique, it's gorgeous to look at. The sound is great. Theme integration is great. Gameplay, however, is like the 5th best thing about it . So, if I "collected" pins - it'd be a little different. But in my limited collection, I need to focus on games I love to PLAY.

TH falls short in that area (for me). GB looks to have the better balance of looks (finally, Stern) and FUN.

What I would also find interesting:

For people that HAVENT pre-ordered (and have a 3-4 yr VERY emotional attachment to TH), where would you spend your NEW MONEY:

So, you have $10k in your pocket, and both games are in front of you, which gets your money?

I guess I ask it that way, one, because I think there's a lack of objectivity for "investors"; and two, because that's the way I look at games (since I'm not a pre-orderer).

Yes, but I was talking about TH, not WOZ. And, while there are similarities, i think they are different gameplay-wise, which is my challenge....

Apples and Oranges.

In 8 years, JJP has delivered almost 1 game I enjoy playing. So, let's round up and give them a 50% hit rate.

Sterns hit rate is lower, but it can afford to be. Why? Because theyve delivered like 10x more titles to choose from. AND, they can afford to build games with smaller, yet super passionate followings (Kiss), where JJP has to deliver a broad market hit EVERY time or risk business failure.

So, in the same time period, while there's some losers from Stern, there's more winners than JJp has had. I'd consider ACDC, MET, GB (and I'm leaning towards adding TWD) to be winners in the "JJP timeline." Others probably would suggest the list of Stern winners is even longer...

Ive been out of town for a week, but a quick catchup of the last 1000 posts or so would suggest the topper has made it unplayable.

Oh the irony!

I made a tongue-in-cheek comment trying to illustrate the incredible MEANINGLESSNESS of the topper and what happens, 6 comments fixated on a topper (that no one has even seen the final design of).

Oh pinside...

My question is:

Where are the rave reviews from new TH owners? I really expected a FLOOD of threads with folks sharing their experience playing the news games that started arriving last week.

I saw one weak excuse for the lack of positive reviews- something like TH has been revealed so much over the past couple years that we shouldn't expect the "new pin excitement" now when they arrive.

i think thats BS.

I could make the case for the exact OPPOSITE: that there is SOOO much excitement form people after being forced to wait 3-4 years for this game that they are over-the-top excited to get it in their house!

So whats the deal?

My experience playing in on location was decidedly "looks beautiful, but playing it is ho-hum", I wonder if thats not the current prevailing opinion?

Is everyone just going to do a "hail mary" for "really good code will fix this"?

if thats the truth (which frankly.... well...),
Then Thank God Jack didn't actually ship this pin on time 15 months ago.... what in the world was the status of the coding THEN?!!?!

Sorry, it doesn't add up.

glasshouses_(resized).jpg

Yeah, but those guys didn't play with an unlimited play clock....

Sure, discussing a game no one has played vs one that Nearly no one has played..... What could go wrong?

Game, Set, Match.

Probably not, because, I don't think TH CAN be a flop since they've already collected the vast majority of the money for it...

i think all eyes are on JJP #3, without prepay, to measure if the company has the chops to survive...

Early code? They've been working on it for like 3 years!

Sheesh back at ya.

Until you plunge the ball....

Lol...

If pinball machines were intended to be pieces of art, TH would win. But, they're not... MOST people want them to be fun to play as well.

Almost everyone that's played GB has commented positively on how fun the game is.
Almost everyone who has something positive to say about TH talks about how fun they HOPE it MAY BE..... In the future.

If people can't see that HUGE difference.... then no amount of logical discussion will change their minds.

Operators are going to love it!

lol... ridiculous why, because you emotionally disagree?

Sure, they are "subjective opinions"... (is there such a thing as an 'objective opinion')

And, *Im* not defining anyone elses concept on fun. Im making a simple observation that MOST (not ALL) of the feedback about GB has been positive. And an observation that TH feedback has been more mixed, and furthermore, many of those that are giving positive feedback about the pin comment about how they have faith the code will improve it (many from people who've waited 2-3 years for this game).

If you'd like to disagree with that observation, feel free, but I think its fairly accurate.

Ha, true!

Im guessing EXACTLY the same number of people who walk into a friends house and call them an idiot when you disagree with them.

net_toughguy_(resized).jpg

Well, based on what Ive seen in the pinside forums so far:

The quality control edge goes to GB....

I agree. An underutilized feature is pretty benign....

Hell, I have buttons on my camera - I have no idea what they do -it's still a great camera!

Does it really negatively affect ANYONE's gameplay???

To me, its a non-issue, and there are far more relevant things to be critical of with TH (in its current state).

"You DO realize" that for the average person that walks up to the game on location- we can't?
Just like the folks that have commented elsewhere "meh, the ball only got stuck once or twice in an evening of playing"- unfortunately, for those games on location- we can't just slide the glass off to fix.... it oftentimes means the game gets unplugged.

Its just beyond reason JJP would ship these games with underpowered flipper settings... especially after altho grief in the past. It's JUST Dumb.

One area where JJP certainly seems to have "caught up " to the big boys like Stern is in shoddy QC....

Agree. Theres nearly zero "buzz" around TH. ESPECIALLY from those not already emotionally tied to one with a pre-order.

Stern releasing a very well-done game at the same time certainly didn't help...

Agreed if we're just talking about "marketing, pre-release kind of buzz"

But TH's are in the wild now.... people are playing them. There's no buzz from folks that are actually playing the game. 3 years to get out the door and they stubbed their toe (again) with qc issues AND, (completely inexplicably) way incomplete code.

I can't imagine theres many people that walk away from playing a TH (right now) saying, "damn, I HAVE to have one of those, where do I order." I've played one quite a bit locally and seen people walk away before they even finish the game.... That's NOT the walk-away experience that leads to success.

And yet, you DIDNT buy/order the game, so while you may be disagreeing with my assumption, you certainly are supporting it with your actions....

My point was simple:
I've heard of few people that after PLAYING the game, have fallen in love with it.

btw, that in no way makes it unique in the pinball world... I don't recall hearing very many love-at-first-sight stories about Stern WWE or Mustang either, so it's a simple observation- not an indictment.

Yes, but theres a big difference between those games and TH.... layout.

In fact, there was guy here on pinside, I forget who, who was VERY passionate about about the number of awesome toys JJP put in WoZ... not sure why, but TH seems almost bare compared to WoZ (toy-wise).

I just don't see software making that playfield less lonely

Now- the trolls are the one wildcard I see as being a way for him to "change" the playfield. I know many have complained about the trolls (deservedly so), but they *DO* represent a way to alter the playfield a bit. I think they will become a big plus for this game eventually (vs somewhat of an annoyance now).

Geez, now you're repeating yourself about me repeating myself....

Btw- check your facts- I never said TH sucked.
Also, I enjoyed the hyperbole in your rant "the audacity" part... Lol.

I said I was doubting that it was inspiring people (in its current state) to buy one (outside ppl who preordered). If you have evidence to the contrary- please share.
GB seems to be having the exact opposite effect, and, this IS a thread comparing the 2 games.

BTW expletive, have you even played both these games?

Feel free to use the ignore button if you're unhappy with my discussion.... I'll be super sad, but I'll get over it....

pfft! that's it!?!?! .... they'll never be able to sell them all!

truth.

Perhaps some of us (non-owners) are just as jaded in our evaluation of Th as the owners are in defending it.

I can see TH being an acquired taste, and as such, more attractive to the home user as they can spend hours emerging themselves in the rules and exploring all the nuances of the game. The game also seems to benefit (more than the typical Stern) from the correct setup (pitch, flipper strength, etc)

The game (as it stands today) just isn't as approachable in the wild. GB (and GoT and TWD) just deliver more bang-for-the-buck IMO when you simply walk up to them and drop the tokens in. The tradeoff might be a far more superficial and shallow game, juries still out on that as well.

Yes, shocking to see people comparing these two releases to one another.... oh wait... the thread is titled "GB vs TH" hmmm?

lol...

shocked_(resized).jpg