I've grown tired of this argument. Displays mean much more than just "dick". Your point comes down to the fact that a System 11 game got by fine with alphanumeric displays. And they did. But I just raised my head and saw the closest game to me, 4 Square. An EM from the 70s (great game). Right next to it is Game Of Thrones. GoT would be destroyed by the display of 4 Square. They don't use it as just score keeping, it is the coveyance of all the information in the game. The DMD tells me how to advance through the game, because games are MUCH more complex now. It's just stupid and shortsighted to think an older display tech is as good.

That was all carried forward by WOZ. No, it didn't need to be that big, but it is. And it always had information about the status of my game as I played. The LCD in it was revolutionary. Not for the tech or the assets, but in all the information it showed you at all times. 4 score reels just can't do that.

I know I'm not changing anyone's mind here, but it is crazy that in 2016 games don't have an LCD showing the status of everything. I'd have loved if GoT had conveyed as much status as the older WOZ did. And have you see the status counters on Tron? Pitiful, one line of the DMD broken into 3 bars.

I'd like better.

Like I said, I'm not convincing anyone to change their mind here.

However, are you really making the argument that WOZ and Hobbit display too much information all the time? I find it odd that you have owned a game for years, but can't be bothered to learn how to read the display.

Again, if you couldn't be bothered to learn what is being shown currently, why would I listen to you spouting the direction the industry should go? It makes you sound intentionally uninformed.

What if the cupcakes are made of shit??? Ok, I guess the discussion is complete.

I agree. They are just opinion...

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Captainneo would disagree...

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So you are manipulating ratings and see yourself as a hero against people manipulating ratings?

Attempts to sway it in both directions are pathetic.

And sure, zeros probably don't show up anymore. That is why most manipulators switched to the proverbial "3" rating. It skews the results better.

I'm a little surprised you're trying to defend your manipulation as truth. I get it, you're opinionated. That's fine. But your actions are what destroys the ratings. You compound the problem while standing defiant. Sometimes it's best just to admit you're wrong.

But then you go on say yours were all justified?

Your ratings are obviously bullcrap designed to manipulate the final rating. Sometimes you admit it but then go on to defend it as fact.

I guess I'll drop it with that. Feel free to get that last word in, as I'm sure you need to.

Thank goodness there is a Statsdoc in the house!

The problem is that people still try and game the system. If someone like (insert manipulative user) wants to manipulate the ratings and the formula gets changed, they simply look for the new edge that still does the most damage. When people were suggesting getting rid of bogus "1" ratings, "3" became the new one.

Ratings tend to get watered down in the face of intentional manipulation. Statistics can help, but in the end intentional manipulation still skews any results making them less reliable.

Not at all. I have always found statistics to be fascinating. Unfortunately in some conditions, they become worthless. IPDB has the exact same issue with ratings. That is why the numbers should just be removed. Back on IPDB if I was looking at a machine I ignored it's ratings, and just went and read the comments. You can learn a lot about a game reading them. Agendas become obvious in the text, and some people write insightful things about the game. They text is always more valuable on the less "politicized" games. You can't get much truth on any new Stern or JJP game anymore.

Then again, you probably can't get all that much truth on stuff that is years old... It is a shame really. I act like this is a new problem, but it has been going on as long as their have been ratings systems.

I'd think they could carry on. I don't think the investors would have put their money in if it was so close that one flop would sink it.

But I also don't think Hobbit will be a flop. I don't think it will be a runaway hit, but I'm betting it ends up being a good solid effort when all is said and done.

I liked the way you made these numbers up. It throws away 50% of pinsiders that voted. Then it takes the remainder, and says the "real" votes work out at 9 to 1 in favor of Stern. Excellent math. I wonder if you included yourself in the 50% you tossed out

Call me crazy, but if I had a big tank, I'd commute to work in it every day. Each day I would find, or make a new route to my office. I'd want a second tank in the garage in case I sank the first in a swimming pool or something. Sure, it would be slower than my car, but I'd never have to sit in traffic.

I wasn't making a cargument! I want a F'ing tank to drive to work!!! It wasn't a metaphor, it was a TANK!!! Sorry for being off topic.

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WTB: Zodiac - prefer local near Boston.

No matter what JJP releases the feedback will be more mixed. If they had released the exact version of GB that Stern released the feedback would also be more mixed. JJP feedback transcends the actual game.

Nobody was more shocked than me. I bought the VE on a whim planning to push it back out the door three months later. But it can provide pinball satisfaction in less than 3 minutes. No other game I own provides so much so brutally fast. And then it breaks your heart.

I agree, he doesn't have a masterpiece. But GOT might end up being it for him. It came out of the gate VERY strong. I almost ignore the fact that Steve R designed it, because that game is really all about the software to me. But you're right, time will tell.

I have Tron right next to my IM. Love them both

I think it is a big difference. I want to see what the game has, and I think LOTR would be frustrating if the games were short as IM. Games play as long as they should play. Making it more brutal just to be brutal isn't that much fun.

And you can destroy the ring a lot faster than that. Just work on starting the multiballs, and as soon as it starts, dump the other balls. It is a fun way to play it late at night. A quick DTR and you're done. No modes, no nothing but start and dump out of the multiballs.

I haven't had a chance to see this video, but the lighting of Slimer looked much better in person than any other video I've seen. The green almost glows because the light is right over him.

And here is what you get to look forward to with Ghostbusters:

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It had absolutely nothing to do with the GB pinball machine. Kind of like a stuck ball didn't really have much to do with The Hobbit. When I saw the picture I decided to post my own useless picture of the other side.

I've never posted a picture of stuck balls on Star Trek by the pops. I didn't post on from the first time I played GOT and one got stuck between the left ramp and the lamp post. It just stuck me as stupid. But leave it to SilverBallz to then jump on it...

Timeout. I'm a JJP supporter, so I'm allowed to say it. I hate how Neo drones on bashing JJP each chance he gets. He is a total broken record. However in this case the axe he is grinding is true. WOZ was illuminated poorly. I always played mine with extra light balanced out.

Of course I also have to do the same with GOT because it vacillates between complete darkness to blinding flashing over and over. An extra ball during a Multiball shuts off all the lights and then blinds you with every insert... And then TheLaw comes in and says I'm being a wimp about it on Pinside because it isn't an issue for him. Come on Dwight, give me a setting to leave the GI out of those effects.

It is a design issue, but it sounds like one that can be corrected in software. From a wild guess, it sounds like they are not firing the beast mech if the bottom switch isn't closed. So changing the ball search routine to pop them up anyway is probably the way to go. Alex said a fix would be coming sooner rather than later.

Ghostbusters LE sold out in about a day. People are already asking 10k for it. No need to add more cost until sales start lagging.

It's isn't greed, it's business. They are not doing this as a hobby, they do it to pay the bills. They pay workers to work, those workers buy groceries and pay mortgages. They were never in the business of providing customers extra value, they are in the business of selling a product for money. If the product sells fast with 20 bucks less parts in it, awesome. That also leaves you a feature to add back later when sales slow.

Imagine sales of LE do drop a bit on a killer theme. The next killer theme will have an LCD as an LE only feature, and a small price bump. And the crowd will go wild.

You forgot to say "mic drop" at the end of that, because this entire thread comes right down to this.

And yet we are ready to start the second thousand posts. Begin

In my opinion, it is much more impressive than GB. MET is a great ruleset and fun to shoot. I don't like the band that much, but the game is good enough to get past that for me.

Nice! "You disagree with me, so please stop talking".

LOTR is a standard fan layout. And if TSPP came out today, it's reputation as a clunkfest would be cemented before the first code update was released.

LOTR is one of the best games ever made, but take away the rules and the sounds, and it would be a boring shooter. Yet that seems to be how most people want to judge Hobbit.

Thank goodness it was you that gave him the opening to describe all the problems. He wouldn't have responded if it had been me.

Shill. That is absolutely acting like a complete shill. One test game had an issue, and it was fixed before full production, yet you raise it as an issue still. If other users had run into it, Pinside would have been blazing with pictures of it. Just how many of these mythical "people" have replaced their ramps?

You do know that Stern has had to send out entire replacement playfields, right?

This is stupid because I can admit that I like both companies. I'm not shilling for either. Too bad you can't do the same.

Ummmmmm, no. You might want to look up what that is before using it in this context.

I only noticed mine when nothing was being played. Same with Game Of Thrones. If the room is silent, you hear the fan. Start any game in the room, and you don't notice it.

And it's a bummer that everything is moving away from passive cooling. Fans fail, and that failure stresses the components the fan was working to keep cool.

Bite your tongue! John is a WOZer for life, no matter how many times he sells it.

I don't think much of GB, but MET is a hell of a great game. Enjoy!