(Topic ID: 155566)

Ghostbusters "Vs" Hobbit - Poll.. Please be tasteful in the comments!!

By frankmac

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 1,516 posts
  • 225 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by CaptainNeo
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“Stern Ghostbusters "vs" Jersey Jack Hobbit- What game do you choose?”

  • Ghostbusters 606 votes
    66%
  • Hobbit 310 votes
    34%

(916 votes)

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

20161024_191722 (resized).jpg
20170204_212146 (resized).jpg
IMG_0156 (resized).JPG
image_(resized).png
image_(resized).jpeg
image_(resized).jpeg
Messages_Image(1292536202)_(resized).png
half-wits-hero_(resized).jpg
image_(resized).png
image_(resized).jpeg
oops_(resized).jpg
oops2_(resized).jpg
oops3_(resized).jpg
oops4_(resized).jpg
shocked_(resized).jpg
image_(resized).jpeg

There are 1,512 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 31.
#401 6 years ago
Quoted from halpain24:

Still no both option? My GB premium is ordered and my Hobbit SE was ordered today.

How do you add to the poll? I can not seem to find it? I think adding both is a great addition to the poll.

#402 6 years ago
Quoted from frankmac:

How do you add to the poll? I can not seem to find it? I think adding both is a great addition to the poll.

You can't add to the poll. You'd need to make a whole new thread/poll

#403 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Hence why the ratings are bullshit and always have been

Is that why you "contributed" 65 ratings to pinside? Kinda figures...

#404 6 years ago
Quoted from someoneelse:

Is that why you "contributed" 65 ratings to pinside? Kinda figures...

boredom, i think i did that in one day. maybe 2.

#405 6 years ago
Quoted from rai:

You can't add to the poll. You'd need to make a whole new thread/poll

Ok thanks.

#406 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

they are not false. that is truely how you feel about a game, but some rate higher because it's the new pussay in their collection, some rate on a game they never even seen, and some rate based upon what they hear from other people, without actually playing it themselves. Hence why the ratings are bullshit and always have been

And some people rate games to try to skew the rankings cause they don't believe someone would actually like a game that much, nor do they expect people to change their rankings or feelings over time so they come in and play mr super hero, but little do they know they're causing more harm than good.

-1
#407 6 years ago

well all my numbers on the games i dislike, are legit. I really do hate them that much. Anything in my top 10 give good ratings to, but do vote the stars for the categories they have. Things like AC/DC i don't give 5 stars on art, because it doesn't.

#408 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

well all my numbers on the games i dislike, are legit. I really do hate them that much. Anything in my top 10 give good ratings to, but do vote the stars for the categories they have. Things like AC/DC i don't give 5 stars on art, because it doesn't.

Yup. And that's why I don't think any game is a 10; at least I have t come across a perfect 10 pin. Games like CV in no way shape or form deserves 6 stars or even 5 stars for that matter.

#409 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

well all my numbers on the games i dislike, are legit. I really do hate them that much. Anything in my top 10 give good ratings to, but do vote the stars for the categories they have. Things like AC/DC i don't give 5 stars on art, because it doesn't.

And fish tales a 1? Really!?

-1
#410 6 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Yup. And that's why I don't think any game is a 10; at least I have t come across a perfect 10 pin. Games like CV in no way shape or form deserves 6 stars or even 5 stars for that matter.

CV is my favorite game of all time. Has been for the past 8 years. FT is around the shit bottom of the barrel for me. Had to play it nonstop back in 92, because it was one of the few bars that didn't card us....so we had to play what we had. Would have rather play anything else. Don't like theme, don't like the music, don't like the layout.

SO yea, I wasn't stretching the truth on those ratings at all. Everyone knows how I feel about both of those games.

only SF2 and Xfiles are worse than FT. SF2 and xfiles are the biggest piles of DMD dogshit ever to grace the planet. They are like the LJN's of the nintendo cartridges.

The stuff I love, I really love. Stuff I hate, I really hate. No secret i'm pretty extremely opinionated.

10
#411 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

SO yea, I wasn't stretching the truth on those ratings at all.

If you say it enough, you might convince yourself people believe it.

#412 6 years ago

FT sucks, but it's nowhere near the abomination that SP is. That's a mindless game that is nothing but awful in all aspects.

19
#413 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

well all my numbers on the games i dislike, are legit. I really do hate them that much. Anything in my top 10 give good ratings to, but do vote the stars for the categories they have. Things like AC/DC i don't give 5 stars on art, because it doesn't.

I'm a little surprised you're trying to defend your manipulation as truth. I get it, you're opinionated. That's fine. But your actions are what destroys the ratings. You compound the problem while standing defiant. Sometimes it's best just to admit you're wrong.

#414 6 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

I'm a little surprised you're trying to defend your manipulation as truth. I get it, you're opinionated. That's fine. But your actions are what destroys the ratings. You compound the problem while standing defiant. Sometimes it's best just to admit you're wrong.

Correct.

Quoted from jar155:FT sucks, but it's nowhere near the abomination that SP is. That's a mindless game that is nothing but awful in all aspects.

Correct SP is the worst modern pin I've played.

#415 6 years ago

The hobbit = whomp whomp......

#416 6 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Tilter:

The hobbit = whomp whomp......

Is that good?

#417 6 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

I'm a little surprised you're trying to defend your manipulation as truth. I get it, you're opinionated. That's fine. But your actions are what destroys the ratings. You compound the problem while standing defiant. Sometimes it's best just to admit you're wrong.

Get off 10% of the worst and 10% of the best for each rating machine, maybe it will be fairer.

#418 6 years ago

Geez!!! Fail rail!! In others words derail! Jsut trying so hard to decide between the 2 and fart fart fart! Come on fellas !
I really like Woz I really like twd I love gb and I love the hobbit. I like deep pins with many shots. Does the hobbit really have few shots? Thx

#419 6 years ago
Quoted from Bartzenegger:

Does the hobbit really have few shots?

If my count is correct, you have 23 shots available to each flipper; includes pop-ups and LOCK rollovers, does not include the yellow stand-up targets behind the drop targets and the left VUK. All but the mystery shot are important to progress in the game.

#420 6 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

If my count is correct, you have 23 shots available to each flipper; includes pop-ups and LOCK rollovers, does not include the yellow stand-up targets behind the drops and the left VUK. All but the mystery shot are important to progress in the game.

Pretty sure most wouldn't count each drop target as a "shot". I would count the bank that they were in as a shot perhaps, but not each individual drop target.

#421 6 years ago
Quoted from Eryeal:

Pretty sure most wouldn't count each drop target as a "shot". I would count the bank that they were in as a shot perhaps, but not each individual drop target.

I wonder why most people don't count all available targets as shots. I always count every individual target, ramp, orbit etc.. that is available to each flipper and in a unique position as a shot. How important the shot is with regards to game progress or score is up to the programmer.

Hobbit is somewhat different in that it has the yellow stand-ups behind all the drops. This allows for some interesting play modes. For example, one goal is to collect all the dwarves by hitting the yellow standups. First you have to knock down the drops. But, if you knock down all the drops they reset. So, you really have to shoot accurately.

#422 6 years ago
Quoted from Eryeal:

Pretty sure most wouldn't count each drop target as a "shot". I would count the bank that they were in as a shot perhaps, but not each individual drop target.

I would, considering that they are individually controlled

#423 6 years ago

Guys don't forget to count both slings as shots...from both flippers also so that's 4. Oh, and all the inlanes since you can alley pass to the rollovers.

Sorry Hobbit has an upper flipper so by holding it up you can hit the slings from there too

-3
#424 6 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

I'm a little surprised you're trying to defend your manipulation as truth. I get it, you're opinionated. That's fine. But your actions are what destroys the ratings. You compound the problem while standing defiant. Sometimes it's best just to admit you're wrong.

fine, get everyone else to change their ratings to realistic ratings and i'll change mine. Take out all the ones that are in there for games they have not even seen or played. Take out all the new pussay syndrome ratings. and i'll change mine. But I can tell you CV and TZ will still be 9.8's and SF2, Xfiles will still be a 0, and FT will remain close to a 1. IJ having a 3 is generous. That game pisses me off because of the fact that I wanted to like that game so bad. Love the theme. Has a great look, but holy shit is that pretty much sucks and a waste of playfield space. I had a HUO only for awhile. Tried my damndest to like it. Didn't like it in 93, didn't like it when I had it. Too many video modes. very little playing space. Huge game and less playing space than a safecracker. Highly disappointing. As disappointing as IJ4? close...very close but for different reasons.

#425 6 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I wonder why most people don't count all available targets as shots.

Cool! So my AC/DC has 17 shots*. Nice. It just increased in fun value!

Whoops, forgot shots from the cannon, so add 12 more. 29 shots!

*My counting may be off.

#426 6 years ago

How many shots does Ghostbusters have?

14
#427 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

fine, get everyone else to change their ratings to realistic ratings and i'll change mine.

But then you go on say yours were all justified?

Your ratings are obviously bullcrap designed to manipulate the final rating. Sometimes you admit it but then go on to defend it as fact.

I guess I'll drop it with that. Feel free to get that last word in, as I'm sure you need to.

#428 6 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Get off 10% of the worst and 10% of the best for each rating machine, maybe it will be fairer.

Wouldn't calculating the median rating vs. Mean solve the problem of outliers and make the rating system more accurate?

#429 6 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

Cool! So my AC/DC has 17 shots*. Nice. It just increased in fun value!
Whoops, forgot shots from the cannon, so add 12 more. 29 shots!
*My counting may be off.

By my count, AC/DC has 15 unique shots available to the right flipper and 14 unique shots available to the left flipper. I think they're all important to scoring well. I also think the cannon can hit most of those shots but probably only the jackpot shot (or avoiding it) is important to scoring, but I'm not as familiar with the game.

To me, pinball is basically a "shooting gallery" type of game, so the number of unique shots you have to shoot at, how they feel and how they're used is an important part of the game. YMMV.

#430 6 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

By my count, AC/DC has 15 unique shots ...

He has the prem/LE so don't forget lower PF

#431 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

He has the prem/LE so don't forget lower PF

True, add four shots to the lower left and four shots to the lower right flippers.

Funny, I generally only count up the main flipper shots when looking at a game, which doesn't make a lot of sense, as additional playfields and flippers can add to the fun. My only excuse is that I'm too lazy to break things out that far (ie. upper right flipper on upper playfield, etc...) and in general, the additional flippers and playfields play a much smaller role.

#432 6 years ago

Thx for the info! So as someone asked how many shots does gb have ? Thx

#433 6 years ago

I would typically count one bank of drops as a shot, i.e. TWD drops is one shot, GOT has one shot, ACDC 3 if you count the rock stand ups; but ultimately it depends on how those drops are coded and what they bring to the table. Some pins drops or bank of stand ups are fairly meaningless while others are dependent on the table. In the hobbits case, each drop is individually controlled so if the code utilizes this feature in a magical way, they're could be lots of variety and fun built into each shot. Just like there is with acdc and sometimes having to shoot the Lightning bolt, while other times hitting a different letter, and sometimes trying to hit two at once.

The two best programmers in the biz for taking a pin to the next level and making it a shooters pin is Keefer & Lyman.

#434 6 years ago

There are many ways to count shots in pinball. Personally I don't count drop targets, stand up targets, in line drops, captive ball mechs, canon shots, etc as shots. To be fair and represent the most meaningful and satisfying shots I only count shots where the ball can either pass through or drop into an area.

Here are some counts using the method above.

Ghostbusters premium / LE: 7
KISS premium / LE: 7
Metallica premium / LE: 8 (7 if you don't count fuel lane)
ACDC premium / LE: 7 (includes mini PF)
Star Trek premium / LE: 7
Walking Dead premium / LE: 6
Hobbit: 7
WOZ: 10
Twilight Zone: 11 (one shot for mini pf)
XMEN LE: 9

#435 6 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

Wouldn't calculating the median rating vs. Mean solve the problem of outliers and make the rating system more accurate?

What is calculating the médian rating?

#436 6 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

What is calculating the médian rating?

It figures that I would answer this ... he is referring to the statistical median (the midpoint in the data) which would effectively eliminate the effect of outliers on the rating. It would solve the problem, but a 10-20% trimmed mean would also work ... again suggested by someone else.

Bad data is bad data though. Calculating different statistics will not make it good data, but it might mitigate the effect of those that are hell-bent on manipulating the ratings.

#437 6 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

It figures that I would answer this ... he is referring to the statistical median, which would effectively eliminate the effect of outliers on the rating.

Thank goodness there is a Statsdoc in the house!

The problem is that people still try and game the system. If someone like (insert manipulative user) wants to manipulate the ratings and the formula gets changed, they simply look for the new edge that still does the most damage. When people were suggesting getting rid of bogus "1" ratings, "3" became the new one.

Ratings tend to get watered down in the face of intentional manipulation. Statistics can help, but in the end intentional manipulation still skews any results making them less reliable.

#438 6 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Thank goodness there is a Statsdoc in the house!
The problem is that people still try and game the system. If someone like (insert manipulative user) wants to manipulate the ratings and the formula gets changed, they simply look for the new edge that still does the most damage. When people were suggesting getting rid of bogus "1" ratings, "3" became the new one.
Ratings tend to get watered down in the face of intentional manipulation. Statistics can help, but in the end intentional manipulation still skews any results making them less reliable.

Exactly! Bad data + statistics = bad statistics!

We could go down the rabbit hole by normalizing the ratings based on the rater, but then none of us would know what the hell the numbers meant. Simplicity is better. Everything can be manipulated by those that are so inclined.

That said, I have always favored the median over the average. Robin should give it a try.
Averages are overrated. (I apologize in advance for that play on words)

#439 6 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

Exactly! Bad data + statistics = bad statistics!

GIGO. Garbage in, garbage out. Applies to any source data for analysis.

#440 6 years ago

Nothing like a statistician to kill conversation.

#441 6 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

Nothing like a statistician to kill conversation.

Not at all. I have always found statistics to be fascinating. Unfortunately in some conditions, they become worthless. IPDB has the exact same issue with ratings. That is why the numbers should just be removed. Back on IPDB if I was looking at a machine I ignored it's ratings, and just went and read the comments. You can learn a lot about a game reading them. Agendas become obvious in the text, and some people write insightful things about the game. They text is always more valuable on the less "politicized" games. You can't get much truth on any new Stern or JJP game anymore.

Then again, you probably can't get all that much truth on stuff that is years old... It is a shame really. I act like this is a new problem, but it has been going on as long as their have been ratings systems.

#442 6 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

Back on IPDB if I was looking at a machine I ignored it's ratings, and just went and read the comments. You can learn a lot about a game reading them. Agendas become obvious in the text, and some people write insightful things about the game. They text is always more valuable on the less "politicized" games. You can't get much truth on any new Stern or JJP game anymore.

Good advice!

Comments are much better data than the numbers. I try to find pinsiders that make comments that are in line with my feelings about a game. Then I see what else they like and try those pins first. Much better information than the rankings.

#443 6 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

There are many ways to count shots in pinball. Personally I don't count drop targets, stand up targets, in line drops, captive ball mechs, canon shots, etc as shots. To be fair and represent the most meaningful and satisfying shots I only count shots where the ball can either pass through or drop into an area.
Here are some counts using the method above.
Ghostbusters premium / LE: 7
KISS premium / LE: 7
Metallica premium / LE: 8 (7 if you don't count fuel lane)
ACDC premium / LE: 7 (includes mini PF)
Star Trek premium / LE: 7
Walking Dead premium / LE: 6
Hobbit: 7
WOZ: 10
Twilight Zone: 11 (one shot for mini pf)
XMEN LE: 9

So you're saying unless a shot passes through or drops into an area it isn't satisfying to hit or very meaningful. You really don't consider the ram shot on GOT or the captive balls on GB as shots? What about hitting the correct stand up on HS to light the kickback, or the individual targets to advance from green to yellow to red?

I guess I'll agree to disagree. Satisfying and meaningful are very subjective.

#444 6 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

So you're saying unless a shot passes through or drops into an area it isn't satisfying to hit or very meaningful. You really don't consider the ram shot on GOT or the captive balls on GB as shots? What about hitting the correct stand up on HS to light the kickback, or the individual targets to advance from green to yellow to red?
I guess I'll agree to disagree. Satisfying and meaningful are very subjective.

I agree, particularly when you hear that Keith has a roving set of drop targets in Hobbit that you have to avoid shooting while hitting targets behind them. That would be a satisfying and meaningful shot to me just because of the context.

I have a feeling Keith is going to surprise us with his ingenuity using Hobbit drop targets.

#445 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

GIGO. Garbage in, garbage out. Applies to any source data for analysis.

Except if you are making protein bars on Snowpiercer. The bars are made of a jelly-like substance by grinding insects - which look a lot like cockroaches. In this case - one man's garbage is another man's dinner.

#446 6 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Except if you are making protein bars on Snowpiercer. The bars are made of a jelly-like substance by grinding insects - which look a lot like cockroaches. In this case - one man's garbage is another man's dinner.

But after you eat it I can assure you it's pure garbage on the way out LOL.

#447 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

But after you eat it I can assure you it's pure garbage on the way out LOL.

like whitecastle.

#448 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

like whitecastle.

On a 1-10 what would you rate Whitecastle?

#449 6 years ago
Quoted from frankmac:

On a 1-10 what would you rate Whitecastle?

Before or after you eat them?

#450 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinister:

Before or after you eat them?

Both? lol!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Gaithersburg, MD
9,000 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Fort Myers, FL
$ 29.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Photos LLC
Decorations
$ 1.29
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Daddio's 3D Printed Mods
Toys/Add-ons
10,950
Machine - For Sale
Grand Island, NY
$ 99.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
Toys/Add-ons
$ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Pin Monk
Other
There are 1,512 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 31.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ghostbusters-vs-hobbit-poll-please-be-tasteful-in-the-comments/page/9 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.