Some games should remain toperless.

I haven't played the Hobbit, but did play a couple of games on WOZ at the Pinball Hall of Fame, a couple of years ago.

While the game looked great, I couldn't seem to get into it and really walked away thinking that I was pretty much done with that title.

The code may have been raw, don't know about that, but my impression was that it played really slow...which seems to be what people are saying about Hobbit.

Tim may have had the flippers turned down, to minimize breakage; which would explain some of the sluggishness. I may see if I can play Kerry Richard's, if he still has his to give it another chance.

Robert

GB is the second coming of TZ, is deeper then LOTR, has more toys then WOZ, and will be ranked #1 on Pinside the first day premiums / LE's ship.

Yes I'm being sarcastic, lol. GB does look awesome and that topper is pretty slick.

I have to disagree on the stay puft. How awesome of a topper would it be if had a big stay puft coming from behind the machine as if he's climbing over from the back and has an arm extending as if he's trying to grab you. That would be bad ass. Especially if his face has slight animations, so he can change from innocent to angry. Game effects his mood. That would be worth $500. Anything less, than THAT, for a topper, is a waste of money.

Zinger of the week! Well done Lowepg

You mean something like this....our 7th Inning Stretch guy

yes. but go from innocent to angry faces. He doesn't even need to rise up. could be like that CFTBL topper with one hand on the edge like the baseball guy, and one reaching out to grab you.

WTF is a toper?

toper
[toh-per]

1.
a hard drinker or chronic drunkard.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/toper

In other words, dont play this game whilst drunk.

Ok. Thanks.

Think the correct phrase is everyone on this site is a pinball topers

Whoever designed the Ghostbusters topper is a toper.

I want that as a topper. I want Stay Puft pissed off and trying to kill me as I play. Patent it please

Maybe he ment Tapas. Free food with every drink.

HTF does one "ment" Tapas? Is that a sexual thing?

Vicjw66, you're a bit scary. Are you an English teacher? How does this make you feel:

image_(resized).jpeg

Approximately 157 pinsiders preordered the Hobbit.

Went to Marvelous Marvins yesterday to play the Hobbit. It was turned off. I turned it on and it showed the game had 4 dollars in credits and to press the Start button. Pressed the start button and game wouldn't start. One of the workers said she played it a couple times and the ball would get stuck on the right wire form ramp just about 6 inches above the right slingshot. Kind of bummed as I have one on order as well as a GB.

I love GB, but after looking at Hobbit I'm not 100% convinced I'm going to stay with it. I might just wait for Pat Lawlors game.

20160329_145244.jpg

The Hobbit definitely looks stunning. Playfield looked good and had the playfield protector on it, which I would not buy as it doesn't show off the shine of the playfield. Really surprised that a new game isn't playable due to a faulty start switch.

My question is:

Where are the rave reviews from new TH owners? I really expected a FLOOD of threads with folks sharing their experience playing the news games that started arriving last week.

I saw one weak excuse for the lack of positive reviews- something like TH has been revealed so much over the past couple years that we shouldn't expect the "new pin excitement" now when they arrive.

i think thats BS.

I could make the case for the exact OPPOSITE: that there is SOOO much excitement form people after being forced to wait 3-4 years for this game that they are over-the-top excited to get it in their house!

So whats the deal?

My experience playing in on location was decidedly "looks beautiful, but playing it is ho-hum", I wonder if thats not the current prevailing opinion?

Is everyone just going to do a "hail mary" for "really good code will fix this"?

Not really sure why you would expect a "flood" of reviews since we have only had a handful of folks posting that their games are coming. It's not like we've heard a "flood" of bad reviews either. But, hey, if posters here weren't assuming the worst it wouldn't be Pinside anymore.

I couldn't agree more with how The Hobbit plays. IMO, if they just used 2 orcs instead of 4, they could've had a much better layout.

Could it really take a long time more for the code to be completed? The Hobbit was announced in late 2012. That's 40 months already. Will it be another 20 months until we have the final code?

I'd have liked to see TH launched with 90% complete code.

If I had a new pin and I hated it I wouldn't scream about how awful it was till after I had it sold. I would just say I wanted something else.

I think GB and all the other new pin development stole a lot of TH's thunder. It's been out at shows for a few years so don't think there is much new to talk about other then they are starting to ship. Even after the long delay, there seems to be a variety of issues to limit excitement. At this point, I think you really have to be a fan of JJP and the theme to be excited about TH. I think GB did a better job gaining interest from the less serious pin crowd and those not that into the theme.

First off, only a handful of collectors have opened theirs, distributors and ops seem to be getting this first wave of games.

Second, here's a review for you:
I played a well setup hobbit at a distributors open house pin party. Like most reviews, it was absolutely stunning in person. My first few games were 'meh' - wide open pf, nothing to shoot, yada yada yada just like all the other reviews.

As I watched people play, I started analyzing the display and figuring out the rules. By game 4 it started clicking, and I started having fun. By game 8, I couldn't get enough. By game 10 I had a deposit in with the distributor...ok that's kind of a lie, I said I'd put money down if I can have it next week which was obviously a no. But I was ready to throw down right then and there.

Here's what I liked about the pin:
First off, sound and display are amazing. The cool lighting effects were top notch. But let's talk gameplay and layout since that's where all the hate is spawned from. I was first taken back by the layout like all the other reviews, but as I played more, I started getting an understanding of the layout. Now granted this is based off a dozen plays. But it's not a game about ramps like we're accustomed to with most sterns. But the ramps were fun to shoot. The U turn was not fun, I think some clever code can make it more intriguing. The orbits and spinners were an absolute blast. I had a couple games where I'd loop the left orbit then upper right flipper into the VUK behind the drops. Fun shot, but no reward for it left me puzzled, again clever code needed to make that a fun shot - maybe keep the D drop up then when the code registers that loop shot the W drop falls and lights a jackpot shot of some sort. Hitting the orcs were fun and felt way better than the MM trolls, NGG gophers, and XMEN NC.

The ball return had lots of action at the flippers and didn't feel floaty at all. Ramp shots were fun, orbits were a blast. Hitting drops were decent and ball returns from those shots felt good. Orcs were a blast and I enjoyed hitting them and knowing when they were gonna pop up so I can either go for them or prepare an alternate shot (orbits, drops, etc...). Being able to alternate from locking a ball to starting a mode for extra bonus was very cool but needed more code.

Cons:
Wind lance Outland inconsistency. 1 out of 5 times hitting the button to launch from the wind lance caused a drain.
Weak plunger.
CODE! Code is absolutely not acceptable after 40 mos of production. It was fabulous what they have at this beta point but code is way behind and that is really my only concern for this pin at this point.

Summary: I'm leaning towards a GB PRO. But if I'm gonna spend $6500+ on a pin (GB PREM?) I'd rather fork over the extra to get a hobbit - granted we see an extremely deep code update soon.

EDIT:
I'd like to get a review from these guys. This is how the pin looked to play for me. Not sure about the rest of you, but this setup looks FUN!

And here's my review I posted of the hobbit the day after playing it:

*quick disclaimer* I do not have a hobbit on order and have no pony in the race. I don't give a sh*t about the politics of pinball, I just love to play and have fun. That said....
Stopping in to say you hobbit owners have NOTHING to be nervous about. I played about 8-9 games last night and watched several others play. I got to meet Jack and speak with him for a good half hour after playing the game. He's Very nice and a way cool guy. I didn't know what to expect going in. The open pf and appearance of lack of shots had me thinking it was going to be a dud. But to my surprise, this game came together VERY well theme wise; the Orc pop ups were fantastic and fun to shoot, the ramp shots are satisfying, and the two loop shots felt very good to hit.
Here's a rundown of my mini review:
Cons:
- left outlane kickback: several times the kickback failed or didn't even kick or did something other than shooting the ball back into play resulting in an end of ball bonus. This happened several times even at mode starts, but more often in multiball.
- lot of code lacking; including certain mode starts having a meter to time with the ring button but didn't do anything.
- right hole with VUK. Not a very reliable shot, you more have to get lucky to get the ball in there. Perhaps some drop dead ball foam will help?
- the shooter plunger felt weak, extremely weak and loose.
- ramp shots/weak flippers? from cradle or from an inlane feed, hitting the Ramps was very reliable and satisfying. But too many flail on the fly shots resulted in 'U-turn' ramp shots. This wouldn't be so bad if there was code associated to the U-turn. Even a cool sound effect and randomizing the book pages or something would suffice.
- we got one ball stuck under a pop up orc the whole night and a ball search wouldn't free it. Plus, one of the pop up orcs wasn't sitting exactly flush on the pf. Some concern, but definitely not a deal breaker and a few adjustments could probably fix.
All in all, my cons list can, for the most part, be corrected by code so it's not all that concerning. Now for the good:
- it's a visual orgasm. The animations and choreography are over the top amazing. The use of the jjp staple display is used much nicer than WOZ. It just looks and feels right.
- the pf art and lighting is amazing.
- gameplay: I was concerned at first for the wide open pf. But the 4 Orc pop ups are beautifully coded and integrated well. They were fun to hit, and felt good. The ramp shots felt satisfying, especially the right, probably cause it was a more critical shot; but whet felt better to shoot were the two loop shots with spinners. Good stuff. The right flipper didn't feel to serve much of a purpose but once I did loop the left orbit to right flipper to the VUK behind the drops. So I'm thinking some clever code can make a shot like that a huge super mega orgasmic jackpot of some sort. Overall, I Was a bit hesitant at first with the open wide body layout, but in the end it was fun and satisfying to shoot.
- ring button: some awesome uses with the button. You can select your skill shot and get different awards or advantages by making that specific skill shot. You can also use the ring button to toggle from bypassing a locked ball shot to starting a mode instead. There was also other uses like backstabbing orcs, though I never figured out how to utilize this option.
- it was difficult at first to figure out how to light, start, shuffle modes. But once I understood that, it was very satisfying. And the digital Bilbo book above the pops is amazing! It clearly indicates what to shoot for on the mode your on. It was very cool.
- the modes themselves were simple, short, diverse, and effective. I didn't notice too many stacking possibilities other than being able to start modes while in multiball. Hopefully code will address that in some sort of fashion.
- the drops were very cool. It was tough at times to figure out what rules, if any, were associated with the drops and what advancement in the game they served but there did seem to be some rule of progression associated with it and I started seeing a pattern with them but didn't get enough time to completely figure it out. But all in all, the drops and stand ups felt good to shoot.
Final thoughts:
Smaug seemed goofy and a missed opportunity at first, but he's actually animated and used quite well. His jaw doesn't just move up and down, but slightly side to side giving him a more animated feel. He interacts with the game at times very good.
The game plays different than anything I've played, and it was quite fun. There's potential for very long ball times, but hopefully Keith can find the balance of punishing players while making game advancement smooth, fast, and satisfying.
There's a lot of possibilities for code, and I think that code will bring this good game to a lively fantastic game. Luckily, we know who's behind the console board for code - Keith. And after seeing the WOZ rules, I think code will no doubt be superb.
The game is a looker and a shooter. Fun for all levels it would appear. I would have thrown down the cash right then and there if I could have one in a week or two but obviously that's not an option.
Oh, and beast frenzy is awesome!!!!

Didn't look like any trouble hitting those ramps in that video. Heck, they were backhanding ramps from a cradle with no problems. My guess is this game is going to rock as code is released. Can't wait to finally get to play one. For all I know my GBLE and Hobbit could potentially be delivered in very close proximity to one another. That would be an epic week if they both came like that!

From all the reviews I've read and from what I've seen, the Hobbit has very high marks in the art, sound, lighting, display effects and theme integration departments.

Those are not the most important aspects of a game to me but can prevent me purchasing if done badly. Also, if those aspects are excellent, the gameplay and code don't have to be as stellar to make up for their weaknesses and still be an overall great game.

At this point, unlike GB premium, we've seen plenty of Hobbit videos on early code. I think it's going to take a while for owners to discover if there are any super annoying shots, playfield design flaws or reliability issues that cripple the game. And yes, for the code to grow.

I certainly wouldn't want to put out some negative review until I really gave the game a chance. Especially knowing how some Pinside members are always looking to fan the flames with JJP (though this seems to have improved some).

I think I said this somewhere else, but I'll say it again here: there is no way that this game doesn't get more code than any gave ever. Given the time it's has taken to produce and the money burned in that process, JJP has to have this game sell well. Whether it sells well from here on out is up to the programmers - it will therefore be the priority.

Now, why this game is this far, temporally speaking, along in its production cycle and has so little code is anyone's guess.

My hope, with the code, is that there are good loud jackpot call outs (something I think WOZ lacks), multiple high score tables (one for each mode would be insanely cool!) and multiple mini wizard modes that are difficult, but not overly so, to obtain.

I attempted to say what you did skb but you said it much better. Pretty much sums it up.

Jack ran out of money, so code development obviously stopped.

Now that new investors have been found, coding can continue again.

I've got to question the "so little code" comment. The game might not have the polish it needs yet, like Jackpot callouts and more Smaug speech, etc...but it has 31 modes, all with accompanying HD display animations and sounds for every shot hit. A secondary LCD that describes the rules for each mode and additional animations. All the scoring displays and tracking system for the modes.

I would argue that there may already be more code in the Hobbit than any other game to date. And yes, it still needs more to tie everything together and make a fun, cohesive game.

I know David Theil said he had completed the sound stingers to accompany the animations for all the modes a while ago. I don't know if they are all active in the game yet. I doubt that what we see at this point is all that is done.

In the long term The Hobbit is gonna be a far more unique game than Ghostbusters will ever be.... but for the short term...

Great review SKB, thanks for all the detail, even though I'm not in on one right now it's excellent to see JJP bring all this together and finally get them out the door.

One thing for absolute certain, just like LYMAN did with TWD, KEITH is going to get the code to an amazing point.

This all points to great stuff for JJP in the future.

Both Keith and Ted have been working on the game this whole time, but there were fundamentals that needed to be done first, unrelated to the game rules, plus there's Pindemption which took up most of Keith's time for 6+ months.

No one was laid off or wasn't working on the game.

If that is true, then there is no reason that the game should still be in beta ~3 years latter.

I had a deposit on the game but bailed when I saw JJPs D&B rating.

The game seems to still be playing the same software version from when I got out.

Totally agree with this comment. It's all there, it just needs to be brought in altogether. The polish so to speak.

if thats the truth (which frankly.... well...),
Then Thank God Jack didn't actually ship this pin on time 15 months ago.... what in the world was the status of the coding THEN?!!?!

Sorry, it doesn't add up.

You know this isn't true. Why exaggerate? When was the D&B rating thing, a year ago? If you really believe the software version is the same, you haven't been keeping up.

It sure seems true to me.

I've played it at every show, and now at the distributor.

There might be some micro-difference, but not 2 years of development difference.

Give me a break.

Like 31 modes with accompanying animations and sounds of "micro difference"?
2 years ago we had a basic framework (that has changed) and an animation of Bilbo running from the shire.
2 years ago we had a white wood and Smaug was not revealed.
2 years ago there was no book lcd.
Much has changed since then.

I thought shipping without complete code was "fraud?"

An oldie but a goodie

Did they take out the overbearing PLING PLING PLING sound from the slingshots a couple years ago? That would be a huge code upgrade IMO.

14 minute mark... He made the ramp.. Why'd the ball drain?

Had the exact thing happen to me as well when I played it at Pinball Wizard last Friday. I assumed it was a programming issue, but it could be a penalty for a specific mode. Regardless, it sucked big time when it happened as it was a $1.25 per play.

All my high scores got erased when the local game hit 2,000 plays.

I really don't feel like putting in the time to get them back. It feels like a total chore to get a high score.

Compare that to Star Trek. The deeper into the game you go, the more of a rush you get.

VID is 100% correct about the JJP finances. Parts for the game didn't arrive until after the investors got on board. After the investors were on board, they brought in their own CEO. It's as simple as following the money trail.

It looks to me like the center captive was lit...if the ramp shots flanking both sides make you lose you ball...that's actually pretty frikkin sweet. Nice risk vs. reward possibilities.

I read in the hobbit thread that they're making a plastic shield or something that keeps the ball on the wire form as occasionally when it gets diverted to the windlance Outlane when it's not supposed to? That was my understanding of it anyway.