3000+ games sold say you're wrong.

Good to hear. Our local distributor just got one in for demo and it had to be turned off. Apparently there were about 3 significant issues that need to be fixed before the game is playable to any degree.
Every pinball manufacturer seems to suffer issues from early production runs so it's not as though it's a sign that the game will never be good, however this pin should be blowing people away (like it did for Expletive, above).
If it's a great pin, I would consider getting one. As it stands right now, I don't see any reason to jump on the wagon, and that's a shame. JJP likely needs a lot more sales to keep things running, I expect.

Over how many years in production? And how does that compare to other pins?

There's no arguing that some pinheads feel that WOZ is the best pin ever. And that's a good thing for pinball.
Personally, of the 5 or so people in my pinhead-group, who own approx 50+ machines, 2 of us have owned WOZ in the past, and nobody owns one currently. For me, that speaks volumes.

Well, I'm in a league with 25 guys and at least 4-6 of us own WOZ's and still have them For me, that speaks volumes too as do stats like Alex posted and ones in the image below. Same goes for a lot of operators saying WOZ out earns all other games on location.

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If I had you in my playgroup, I would feel obligated to buy a WoZ, and personally be afraid of selling it lest I incur the wrath of "Tank".

So consider your results... skewed

Player both machines at TPF and allthough TH looks stunning with great display it just isn't for me. To slow for me, have this problem with more wide bodies

GB on the other hand has a good fun factor direct from the start and has the typical quick Stern pleasure. PRO looks already good enough so GB gets better bang for the buck also (not applicable for LE model ofcourse)

That earnings report is worthless in my opinion. No clue as to how many operators reported into it, how many pins were included, etc. it does probably provide evidence that WOZ is flashier than most other pins, and that the LCD likely attracts more people to try it out.
In my opinion, WOZ doesn't hold a candle to ACDC, but I could see how many people would be more likely to drop $1 into WOZ on location, than ACDC, based on initial impressions.
The comment that does impress me is that of the 25 guys in your league, 4-6 have WOZ.

There were aspects of WOZ that I found to be far superior to any other pin I've played.
The ball seemed to glide across the playfield, perfectly. The rules are incredibly deep. The light show is spectacular.
I love the rules road map that JJP implemented on the LCD, so it's obvious what does what, and how everything works.
What I despised, was that I found the game boring. I think it's because I prefer games with ramps (though that's not all. There's still something else that I can't seem to put my finger on. Maybe just the theme?).
I'm hoping that Hobbit will play like Attack From Mars, with LOTR rules.
Fingers remain crossed. JJP is doing so many things right, but to date, in my opinion, just seems to be missing the ribbon that ties everything together.

Yeah but it still all comes down to what the source material is, no interest in Hobbit movie outtakes and voiceovers would much rather have mono fuzzy clips of Blade Runner or StarWars so once again its only as good as the theme and gameplay, even sound can't save a pin, just sayin Ice. It seems to me that alot of people are trying to make excuses for what is starting to look like a bit of a let down.

Honestly I don't want to start a flame war. I've got one on location a short walk form where I live and I don't see myself choosing to play that over the many other games on offer there. I don't have a financial stake in the game, so it's easier to be flippant about it. There was a lot I didn't care for and the only reason I'll put some time and money into it is so I don't get demolished at tournaments or league.

100% agree, I'm not into Hobbit the theme at all so buying one doesn't interest me no matter how great it sounds or good it looks, especially so long after the movies have come out.

I think that's why its somewhat of a letdown for people. The waiting is a crusher, especially when so many other great games are being pumped out.

Theme and game play are usually first for most people right? Then if it all comes together in a great package its buy time.

I want great themes, with awesome layouts, artwork, coding, sound and video. Yep, i want it all, GBLE is almost there for me, like TWDLE, just needs some great video and we are off to the races!

Me too! I'm really enjoying my TH Smaug Edition. This is a very fun pin as it stands, no excuses.

Give us some details Jim! How do you like it compared to Woz?

By the way, for anybody interested and BEFORE Kaneda gets to it, is this a GB must have?

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maybe that's part of the problem. A lot of you new guys are only here because of the glitz and bling. If you would have been around in the days before even the DMD. most of you probably wouldn't even be playing pinball now. hence why you think it's such an awful thing, to have a one color dot screen.

I think there's a lot of truth in this.

It's not a disparaging, just a valid, observation. Some of us are in it for nostalgia, some for the new bling (and newcomers are welcome as well as downright essential).

Thats why I wrote earlier I think BOTH TH and GB are great but not comparable pins, representing the best of two totally different philosophies.

Be glad we have BOTH in this hobby!!!

I wasn't stating it as positive or negative. I just think this is the reason there is way more emphasis on the display that there probably should be.

I remember when the DMD was first introduced and we played a DMD game for the first time. This is about how exciting it was for us.

Look it has pictures. (monotone voice)
that's pretty neat. (stating observation)

thats' it. There was no mind blowing revelation. We truthfully didn't care either way. It was more about the toys on the playfield just like it always was. How does the playfield look. back then it was just check point then T2, so the playfields didn't blow us away. but when TAF came out with thing that grabs the ball, moving bookcase. Holy shit. then JP, with moving and eating dinosaur. WOW! that's awesome. Then TZ came out. WTF is this white ball about? Where did it go? I think it drained already. Magnet flippers? Holy FAWKING SHIT!!! Now pinball gave us something to make our dicks hard. Had nothing to do with the display.

It has a whole different vibe than WOZ. I think it captures the mood of Tolkien's Middle Earth very well with the sounds, playfield colors and of course LCDs. This pin is a lot faster than WOZ and my ball times are much shorter (so far). I'm learning that there are some dangerous shots that can be very fun to try and that the drop targets can behave in many different patterns - which really adds to the challenge.

The more I play it, I am starting to get the feel of what Keith is driving at with the programming. I flailed away at the pop up critters at first, but then calmed down after a few games and really started reading the book and looking at what the playfield lights and LCD were telling me. There are a lot of clues in there to guide you along the path deeper into the game. I feel like I am working on solving a mystery of sorts. I'm having a great time playing The Hobbit!

This game is a real gift to players that like to be rewarded for accurate shots and for following the clues that the playfield lights and LCDs give you. A whole different kind of fun than WOZ.

If only we could combine best of Stern and JJP.

Hobbit must be one of the best looking games ever and looks cutting edge.

GB is shaping up to be one of the most fun to play games with great artwork but dots that look decades old.

And despite all the time and money that has gone into Hobbit, the absolute basics of shot geometry, flow, and speed seem to be missing.

GB looks like the game that despite looking dated, will be the game that you want to hit the start button over and over.

I think JJP focusing on widebody to differentiate from Stern was a huge error as games become floaty and slow unless design is immaculate.

Despite how beautiful Hobbit looks, got to give it to GB even with the horribly dated display.

I think it's coming with both of them, right?

I grew up playing alpha numeric pins, not a lot like now, but had fun playing.

I didn't even notice or care about the Dmd when it arrived, no big deal back then to me.

JJP and Woz came along, that's when I got interested in actually buying a pinball machine for home use, and the rest is history for me now.

If I'm going to buy a pinball machine for my house I want LCD technology and other cool advancements. It's "innovate or die", and Stern almost died not that long ago.

The LCD can be used in a new and innovative way. It's all about to give the player the feeling they have accomplished something special. Steve Ritchie can do those things with cool shot designs. Doc Ock on SM or even on mediocre games like 24 the sniper or lock shot feel right to be hit. It's just cool to smash things or end a combo in such shots. You see a smile on almost every players face when he is hitting sparky on metallica.
When I got my WOZ with early code I missed all those things. I thought there are not enough good shots. And I thought the witch model is ugly. But Keith used the LCD in a very clever ways. So as a player you connect the witch animations on the display with the ugly figure on the playfield in your mind. And so this figure on the playfield comes to life in a way that would never been possible without the LCD and so the game interacts with the player. You can say, in a good game you don't have time to look up there, but even when you could just look in tiny moments up there it gives you this illusion. I have very high hopes he can do this magic again with TH.

The basic concept of GB vs. Hobbit implies an artificial adversarial relationship between the two. We are so lucky to have two such games hitting the market this year! Yes, I do realize that not everyone can order both like I did, so they do compete for sales. But the point is that one doesn't have to suck for the other to be excellent. One may appeal to you more than the other, but we have two great games on our hands. Enjoy!

And then there's me, who got into the hobby because of WOZ. And I've been working my way backward through pinball history with purchases and restorations...and just getting into EM restorations with a Jacks Open.

But I'm weird.

TH is great and i love it. Will it get old.. Sure, like most pins over time do. Thats why we have more than one pinball in our collection. GB is a cool theme but it plays like all Sterns i have played. Its new to the eyes, so yes, everyone is excited. But, time will come and you will see used GB's for sale. Just like GOT, Kiss, ACDC, etc..... I really think its to early to say which one people will like the most. Only a hand full have played the TH and GB. Lets give it some time to compare the two. Lets just compare GB to Pat's new game. Exactly my point, you can't...

Great review! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the review. When you play do you find yourself intentionally trying to avoid using the upper right flipper? I have maybe 10 games in on recent code and while it's satisfying to crank the ball into the drops from the UR flipper I often found that this led to too much horizontal action and was the cause for most of my drains. I think it's easier to maintain control just treating it as a 2 flipper game and playing it safe. At least it seemed to help me play better doing this. I'm sure as code is developed Keith will likely make it so that you have to use that flipper for certain objectives but I think this one of only a few games where I have to go against my instinct and "not flip" as it's coming around the right orbit.

At this stage I consider myself as still exploring the game, so I am using the upper flipper quite a bit. The horizontal ball travel is an interesting way to get at the ELF and MAN drop targets. There are several dangerous shots such as the blue Mystery target next to the Newton ball. Classic high risk, high reward shot!

I do appreciate how games like Hobbit and WOZ force you to leave your comfort zone and make you take risky shots. I consider both to be great "Shooter's" games. It still seems a bit less risky to shoot the drops from the lower flippers on Hobbit as the angle isn't as severe and the recovery seems a bit easier. I think it's a good thing they put a post in between the flippers since you can get some pretty nasty returns off of "made" shots and targets.

Thanks for this information. I was kind of getting worried after seeing some negative reviews from owners. Now that you're learning the game it's becoming more enjoyable. Glad to hear it!

On the flip side, if you do like the theme, the display will greatly increase the enjoyment. I couldn't care less about Woz but I still loved the hell out of seeing the scarecrow dance loop on the insert coin screen or the witch flying at me when I drained. Got and GB have beautiful source material to pull from. They could have had incredible animations and clips during game play that sure, might not be seen by the current player all the time but would draw the attention of anyone else in the room. Instead they have dots. Which, I agree, do the job, but why not go for something that looks better. Why not the actual clips?!

An example that stood out on twitch was the "who brought the dog?" mode.

/beating a dead horse.

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Nope I can't do it again, you are correct sir.

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Are you kidding? Anyone who prefers full color high resolution images over red dots is no fan of real pinball.

Retro Pinball's King of Diamonds is the closest thing we've had to a real pinball lately, but the score reels are motorized rather than driven by solenoids so it's a piece of garbage too.

I am not trying to sell you on The Hobbit, or even Woz, but rather on the idea of stern stepping up their game. Will the DMD ruin Ghostbusters? No. Would an lcd or even Color dots have made it much better? I think so.

Also, not sure if I am getting the reference to Fargo.

I honestly love the DMD dots on ACDC, Met, and TWD.
These new dots on GoT and GB are something a little different. They're like negative digitized images.
Although they probably wouldn't stop me from buying GB, I find them very disappointing.
It's like they've taken the fun out of dots.
Hopefully it's just a half-assed solution until the LCD is produced.

Hopefully they will have a color DMD out for it soon. That will help a lot.

The Fargo reference is that of confusion, who wouldn't want a nicer display? I would and so would you and everyone else but it kept coming up like I'm saying give me the worst display you can please, one more time, I would rather have GB's with the DMD than Hobbit with LCD due to theme and from what I've seen thus far gameplay (yet to play GB's but TH wasn't my style) would I like GB's to have a nice 27" HD display, well certainly. Really no way to rebut this and yet its been attempted, hence the confusion. I'm such a dick.

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My apologies. Apparently I have no frame of reference. Like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie . . .

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Ive been out of town for a week, but a quick catchup of the last 1000 posts or so would suggest the topper has made it unplayable.

All kidding aside, if what we saw of the topper was the final product and not a prototype or work in progress, I'm either buying it and shipping it to one of the modders on this site to chrome out before I even open the box, or I'll buy something aftermarket from the modders around here.

For as incredible as the machine looks, the topper isn't of the same quality (judging by the few pictures that I have seen). Not knocking it entirely, but when compared to the rest of the machine it sticks out like a sore thumb.

I'm sure the final production version will look more polished. In the end it's still going to be a light bar and light bars are not really considered a work of art, lol. However, I personally much rather have the light bar then just a giant Slimer figure that is already in the game, a Marshmallow man head sticking out, etc. Those types of toppers have always come off tacky to me, kinda like sticking a giant alien head on Attack from Mars.

The light bar topper just makes sense for this game and I think a lot of people will end up seeing it as an extension to the game rather then this off putting feeling some other toppers provide.

Largely agree, I love the idea of a light bar topper...

Just not that light bar topper haha!

It needs a bit more polish before I would slap it on top of my cab. Some extra detail at the very least. I'm hoping our modders get ultra creative with this one and do something unique (Interactive ghost trap? Spook Central? Vigo?) that will be a no brainer purchase.

Total crapper, doesn't go with the pin. Give me the GB car.

Agreed. They should get Zombie Yeti's approval. It does not go with his artwork and clashes. This should have creative approval and not just some way to make a few extra $$$.

Oh the irony!

I made a tongue-in-cheek comment trying to illustrate the incredible MEANINGLESSNESS of the topper and what happens, 6 comments fixated on a topper (that no one has even seen the final design of).

Oh pinside...

Did you read my quote? It LITERALLY started with "all kidding aside"...

I'm in on an LE.
Topper looks like garbage.
I'm still very, very happy.

At a certain(t) point you just have to let it go and realize pinball is all aboot glitter & glue these days. F*&%ing sad but it keeps the lines building I guess