I have played around 30 games on Hobbit at Silverball Museum. It seems pretty good.

I have no games on any version of GB and bought the LE.

I wanted to post that Ghostbusters is clearly better by citing IMDB scores, but I just learned that 2 of the Hobbit movies are rated higher than Ghostbusters, WTF?

Am I the only one that actually liked the Hobbit movies here?

Nope.

If you took the best parts of all 3 movies and combined it into one 3 hour movie, I'd think it was great. I found it hard not to compare (unfavorably) to LOTR which is maybe my favorite trilogy ever.

I would completely understand that except in my case I enjoyed TH movies a little more. But may be due to the fact I seem to have a hard time following lotr? I should probably watch them again and pay more attention maybe? Or maybe it's coz since I was a kid I've always wanted a pet dragon? and my own pet baby T Rex. Haha! I'm starting to think I won't get either though?

Played both for the first time at TPF. Hobbit was beautiful, but boring and slow. Typical Widebody physics exasperated by lack of things to do.

Ghostbusters was, on the other hand, completely packed in it's standard body. Lots of different and unique items to shoot for. Also beautiful to look at. I was very impressed with the dots. The detail was amazing. ColorDMD is only as good as the original dots. This will look amazing when colorized.

And the Premium is about $1,500 less and will available in mass quantities by June.

No brainer. Ghostbusters by a mile.

Even though I enjoy the LOTR films, the Hobbit movies weren't all that memorable in my mind.

I think that the window for opportunity for TH closed several months back, unfortunately. Now there is a lot of stiff competition for new pins on the market this year. Good news for buyers, but not so much for manufacturers who now have to compete for your dollar.

GB is a dream theme for a lot of people, so that alone is going to garner some attention.

Different code team, Stern's JV code team on Kiss for sure.

I'm not quite sure about Dwight doing the code, sure he's good did PotC and worked on Tspp so he must know how to code well. But it's not a sure thing if Stern will allow the team to polish the code and make it great. Plus Dwight is working on two pins in a row, not sure I like that idea. If the Kiss team was working on GB I'd stay away until I was sure the code would be decent at least.

Dwight is solid. He has a long history of coding great games going back to the Williams era.

GOT is winding down. GB will dominate Dwight's time now.

Zero reservations about Dwight or him being able to finish it.

Besides, Borg needs Lyman for Areosmith.

No. Of course it wasn't the epic story LotR is, but knowing the book that was obvious upfront. I just wanted more of Middle Earth, more of the visuals, more of the nice music, more of the characters - and Mr. Jackson delivered big time.

Actually it exceeded my expectations with all the added references to LotR and the added plot/characters.

I liked The Hobbit book but it was more of a kids story. No where near the depth of the LOTR trilogy. The problem is the movie(s) tried to make it bigger and deeper than it was originally written. This means Jackson was writing the story and not Tolkien. They introduced too much of LOTR story elements to make it a prequel when the original book only setup Middle Earth, Hobbit and how the ring was found.

I do enjoy them, but over exaggerated filming of things like the goblin king scene where they are riding falling platforms down huge ravines without a scratch irk me.

Still, better than 90% of the crap that comes out.

I played both at TPF, and have played TH several times before. I really wanted to like the Hobbit, but it just doesn't generate strong emotions and feelings. The eye candy is impressive and the rules are deep but it is confusing and lacks shots, it feels a bit repetitive too and maybe it's the widebody but it does not have the speed and snappiness to it.
GB on the other hand seems like a killer pin, the art work is great and so is the music (and unlike GoT, it's not just the theme song but the music and sound changes depending on what's going on). It has speed and tight shots and that 'one more game' draw. The only big drawback (to me) is the DMD, the dots are fine but I'm missing the awesome graphics of TH and WoZ

This + 1000.

It comes out a year ago, and they sell a ton beyond preorders. Now, it will be preorders plus some. I don't think they will sell as many as they did WoZ.

Too much competition for $$$ (which is good for consumers!).

Personally, I think I'll be getting a GB Pro for the route, followed by a Full Throttle/Alien combo for the route (depending on Alien, but I have high hopes).

i like the hobbit movies. Sure Icould have did without some of the slapstick comedy, and song and dance numbers.But it wasn't enough to ruin the entire trilogy for me. LOTR is still the best trilogy ever made.

I think TH is suffering from lackluster because it's been at every show for the past 2 years. Every development stage. it lost it's newness excitement a year ago. Most of have played it extensively by this point, and during a time, when it had a lot that needed to be desired. Where Stern finishes building the game, and sets off the big reveal. personally, this is the way to go. Because by the time your ready to make a game, everyone is sick of it, before it's even made, if it's at every show. For those of us that attend 7 or 8 major shows a year.

Did the one you played tilt continuously for no reason? I was having a awesome game, I was kicking its ass and it just tilted and even the people standing behind me were like WTF you didn't move the game at all. Sucks too because I would have gotten my initials on it. I also had a problem with the slowness. The ball moved so slowly that it was hard to move it from one flipper to the other, you had to stop it and then pass the ball. I guess that had a lot to do with the way it was set up.

Agreed, I only watched film one but they made it into a Matrix 2/3 fighting movie with too much CGI and unnecessary characters etc..

Would have been better as 1 movie.

Silverball Museum in Asbury Park increased the flipper strength on their Hobbit. It plays much faster. My biggest concern, is since everywhere it is set up, the flipper strength is on the weak side, will the drop targets and orcs hold up to the stronger strength of the flippers.

At the TPF it wasn't so much flipper strength it was the slow ball movement coming back but I guess you could increase the tilt and then increase flipper strength to compensate.

I disagree. I would say relatively few people have played the Hobbit. How have "most" played it extensively when they only get a game or two in at shows and the code isn't even at 1.0 yet? We tend to think Pinside is the center of the pinball world, but I don't think it is. The majority of people I play in league with don't regularly follow pinside if at all, and they're really into pinball.

In the end, I think the machines will speak for themselves, as they always do. I'm excited about both machines and really hope gameplay and code turn out to be excellent because they've got the "looks" aspect covered. More great pinball is a good thing!

most of the people I know have put a fair amount of time on hobbit. Even 9 months ago. THere are many times hobbit had no line. You could play it as much as you wanted. Pinburgh had many times the game sat empty. But many of the people I know, are all regulars for pinball tournaments and shows.

I guess my point is that it's too early to pass final judgement on games based on initial show experience with very early code. Especially with JJP games that always seem to be set up slow and floaty at shows.

It actually surprises me that people on this forum, of all places, still do this. How many times have we heard "XXXX" game is bad followed by "XXXX" game is now fantastic after a code update?

For me, this one isn't close. I went Ghostbusters. Nothing against The Hobbit, it just didn't move the needle for me.

I also played both at TPF and agree 100% GB is better. I've also played the Hobbit another 20 or so times in the last two weeks and the gameplay is not for me.

But most people's criticism of the Hobbit aren't about it's code. Everyone agrees it's deep.

I'm sure that this has been mentioned several times, but which version of Ghostbusters was at TPF? I'm assuming it was the Pro.

Yes it was the pro but it still looked cool and it was a lot of fun to play. I suck at pinball so I didn't notice how complete the code was.

I've played the Hobbit about 200 times. I don't think the code will be able to save the game.

To get the high score, it's very tedious.

You won't get a more on the fence review than this but I try to say it how it is:

Art: these pins easily take the #1 and #2 spots of all time for their art package. Nothing comes close. I give a slight edge to GB for ZY's amazing hand drawn art.

Display: no question, TH. I wasn't a big fan of WOZ's display when it first came out, but something jjp did or learned made TH's display the best ever.

Theme: this could go either way. I wasn't a big fan of the hobbit movie, but I still like it and will play it in the background as I do other tasks. GB is a classic in all forms. That said, JJP did an excellent job of integrating the hobbit theme. They captured all the excitement from the movies and packed it into the pin with splendid choreography. I give TH the nod for actual theme integration.

Gameplay/Layout: EDIT - I haven't played GB so basing this on reviews and videos END EDIT -gotta give the nod to GB. Faster action, more exciting shots, etc... TH surprised me, I didn't care too much for it in the first few games, but as I learned rules and what was happening, I got sucked in.

Rules/code: this is a wash as both games are in beta. But this category will make or break both of these pins. GB has shown us that JJP can no longer rely on good looks anymore. And WOZ has shown us that Keefer is still the man. But, will Keefer and JJP dedicate that much time to hobbit? Or will they pull a kiss/avengers/stern move and abandon this to move onto pin#3. I'm afraid they may abandon this one cause it's still in beta!?! How/why? I have a feeling JJP can't wait to move past TH after all the drama it's been through. On the flip side, Dwight is programming 2 pins simultaneously, will stern relax his deadlines to give GB enough satisfactory attention? Will the modes end up being as linear as they appear? I give the nod to GB for first time 'casual' play aka short term playability. I give the nod to TH for long term 'the Keefer factor' deep gameplay.

Overall summary: there's something special going on in the hobbit package, and if Keefer and team dedicate code to it like WOZ, it will ultimately outbeat GB as far as overall complete package. That said, at this stage of the game, Dwight is on fire, stern is on fire, the unknowns have to favor GB as stern has been doing business better, faster, and more productive especially over the past 6 mos. GB gets my nod for now, but all it takes is some magic from Keefer and a big code update to sway the pendelum the other way. And if JJP puts the code effort in on hobbit like they did WOZ but in a much faster pace, it will change the game dramatically for not only TH, but JJPs #3 pin.

All the code in the world isn't going to make Hobbit better than GB. The game is simply boring to shoot. You can't fix that with code or a large LCD screen. It's fundamentally flawed from its initial playfield design.

Disagree.

Code fixed WOZ's design and became highly desirable among many advanced players. Same with TWD. Lyman single handedly saved that game.

And TH is fun to shoot, at least the one I played. Ramps felt good, loops and spinners great, the pop ups were fun to shoot (best pop ups ever in a pin), drops aren't that desirable in any pin without good code, the list goes on.

Code makes games! Look at kiss, fun to shoot but is a complete dud. TWD, not a fan favorite layout but became a hit once Lyman finished it. But if code isn't important then I imagine hitting the left ramp 20 times like Keith Elwin did on GB PRO to get good scores is what you like, then have at it. Might as well get an earth shaker while you're at it so you have a right ramp to hit repeatedly over and over to match.

I disagree.

Some people say that the shot's aren't satisfying, the pop-ups are used too much, there isn't a lot to shoot at and they can't understand what to do. To me, these things are mostly code related, as I find that shot satisfaction is largely due to sound, display, lighting effects and point reward, in addition to the physical feel of the shot.

People also criticize it because it plays slow and floaty. I suspect this is mostly set-up.

I don't see any obvious showstoppers in the layout, but I must admit it looks kind of empty. The one unique thing Hobbit brings to the table gameplay wise are the individually controlled drop targets (with stand-ups behind them). I think these can be used to create some new and fun pinball play. But, I like drop targets, YMMV. I don't expect we'll see them put to full use until the code is further along.

I have a few concerns. One is that although all the drop targets and pop-ups give you a lot of things to shoot at, it may not feel like enough variety. Two, is how they will find a way to make 31 modes fun and engaging, though if anyone can do it it's Keith. Three, the reliability of the pop-ups with all the close range hits.

You can't disagree if you accept my fundamental criticism that the playfield is designed poorly. Code will not fix that.

If you don't agree with my fundamental criticism that the playfield is poorly designed, then this argument is moot.

What exactly are you disagreeing with? To disagree with the quote of mine you posted, you'd have to say that most people's criticism are code.

They are not.

I contend that all the things I listed are what most people complain about and are all code related. Ie, they can be improved with code.

Not the things I have criticized or others I spoken to.

A big open widebody pin that plays slowly is not going to be fixed by code. If you have dropped money into this game, I guess keep telling yourself whatever you need to feel better.

And yet even with great code we both owned and got rid of TWD quickly. There were several frustrating design flaws that made me truly dislike playing that game pretty quickly. Great code can bring a game to life but if the bones of a game are not great, code can only do so much. A great layout with bad code is still a blah game. A bad layout with great code is a little more appealing then the first scenario but it will not make it a great game. I think GB has a much better chance to bring both a good layout and good code to the table.

I played both at TPF. I enjoyed playing both and REALLY loved playing the Hobbit, but since TPF only had the Standard version of GB and not the Premium or Ltd Ed it wasn't really a fair comparison. Ultimately I am getting both (like most that means I have waited 3 years to date on Hobbit). I don't jump at new Stern machines very often (actually the only one I bought NIB was Metallica, usually I wait awhile to see which ones the winners vs the dogs), so for me Ghostbusters seems like a special machine, certainly I love the theme.

I deserve zero credit for Simpsons. Thank you.

- Dwight

I agree both should be an option. I am in for a GB premium, but at the same time, I am starting to budget for a Hobbit as well.

GB also looks very good. The slimer toy looks like a fun target to hit. I really like the art and sound integration. The game looks full featured and fun.

My concerns with GB have more to do with Stern's track record of not fully flushing out issues with the mechs in their rush to get games to market. You know Lyman will go the extra mile to see a game through. Don't know yet if Dwight is the same way (hope so).

TWD has a great layout and theme of course.

Lyman didn't have to save anything, just do what he does. Greatness

I have it on order, so I'm certainly biased. But, you have shown a pretty consistent negative bias for all things JJP as well, so your comments could also be taken with a grain of salt.

I have seen a couple videos where the game wasn't set up slow and floaty and it looked pretty fast. I'm sure it can be cranked up even faster but as other's have mentioned, don't know if you'll start damaging things. I'll soon find out.

I think one of the JJP employees must have made fun of him at an open house.

Hobbit arrives tomorrow. Ordered a GB weeks ago. Played GB @ the TPF. Its apples to oranges IMHO. I like both.

And Ghostbusters is running away with this poll.

Guess the man was not entitled to an opinion, in your opinion.

Or is it the herd mentality that the majority is always right? Pfft.

I am in on Smaug LE & GBLE.

The hype for hobbit has all but gone. JJP have taken too long long to release it.

GB looks great, the playfield is PACKED with cool looking stuff and it's a great theme. The rules look good on the Pro. Although not sure about all these SUPERJACKPOTS it dishes out.