If I had the time I would go look and point out all of the positive reviews for Stern's WPT when that game has less shots than The Hobbit. Not a fan boy, just keeping it objective.

Well I guess that makes it 27 then, huh.

Thanks for your valuable input.

Back atcha. I posted more than that one comment that you quoted so you're a bit of a dick to reply the way you did.
I'm sorry you're so butt hurt that the Hobbit came out of the start gates, limping.
The good news is, it's a long race and far from over.

Once again, if you like or love the game, it's all good no matter what others think.
Not sure why a few of you are defending it so strongly. It really doesn't matter who likes what on here.
Play the game and have fun.
WOZ isn't exactly loved by all, but there are some who say it's their favourite game.
I don't agree with them, but that doesn't make them wrong.

Back atcha. I posted more than that one comment that you quoted so you're a bit of a dick to reply the way you did.
I'm sorry you're so butt hurt that the Hobbit came out of the start gates, limping.
The good news is, it's a long race and far from over.
Once again, if you like or love the game, it's all good no matter what others think.
Not sure why a few of you are defending it so strongly. It really doesn't matter who likes what on here.
Play the game and have fun.
WOZ isn't exactly loved by all, but there are some who say it's their favourite game.
I don't agree with them, but that doesn't make them wrong.

What are you even talking about?

I make a comment about how lowepg has repeated himself numerous times in this thread, and was clearly not interested in an actual constructive discussion with the other poster who had the audacity to disagree with him on a point he made, and somehow you interpret that as me being "butt hurt" and you can't figure out why I am "defending it so strongly?"

Add to that you calling me a dick.

Again, I thank you for your valuable input.

I love it. A friend came over the other day and was just in Awwww about it. Trust me, he has a nice collection but was still very impressed.

there was positive reviews? That game has taken shit from people from day one. From the crappy backglass to the crap art package all around. It's not a horrible game, but I don't remember a time when a majority even liked it.

WPT is ugly, but it's a great player. Lots of fun. Too many people can't see past the art to give it a fair shake, however.

i agree, it's better than it looks.

That wasn't the point. The point is that many think it's a good player despite the crappy artwork package all around. It can be considered a good player. The Hobbit is a great looking machine and at least has as many shots so it's far from a turd.

Now if I could only understand how to play the damn thing. Anyone got a link to that video of The Hobbit where I can learn the rules better? Been looking on and off the past few hours.

yea, you cannot judge a pin by it's cover..or theme. And some games you think would be fun by looking at them, and they are not.

Geez, now you're repeating yourself about me repeating myself....

Btw- check your facts- I never said TH sucked.
Also, I enjoyed the hyperbole in your rant "the audacity" part... Lol.

I said I was doubting that it was inspiring people (in its current state) to buy one (outside ppl who preordered). If you have evidence to the contrary- please share.
GB seems to be having the exact opposite effect, and, this IS a thread comparing the 2 games.

BTW expletive, have you even played both these games?

Feel free to use the ignore button if you're unhappy with my discussion.... I'll be super sad, but I'll get over it....

Come on this is about GB and TH. Please get back on topic or quit posting.

I've been "inspired" to buy a TH. I played it at replayfx, and we loved it. Now with all the videos out, I have come to understand it better, and love it. It's different from anything else in my collection. I will probably be buying a hobbit soon once funds are in line.

Latest firmware from 2 x Pinsiders
Big differences already and only 5 weeks between updates.

and

If I had the money and both games being equal in price, both LE's for comparison, I'd much rather have TH, way better theme to me.

My Hobbit is getting delivered on Monday. Perfect timing for new code. Getting pumped!

I just installed the 1.10 patch last night on my Hobbit. All I can say is Holy S ... It's is freaking awesome.

IMHO

TH has much better full color changing inserts and has two LCD screens. I simply love what JJP is bringing to the table as far as hardware and code updated compared to Stern.

I've yet to play GB and only played TH a few minutes. At this point, I can't decide. But simply put (IMO) Stern should put full color changing inserts on their LE and premium pins.

Gameplay/fun are most important to me, so until I can play either/both I don't have a good opinion. My limited time and watching video of TH was meh, but I need actual time on the pin to decide.

Id love to know how much extra it costs to have all the inserts produce full color change, In my opinion even the pro's should have this, I guess it might be expensive, I just can't see it costing hundreds of dollars more for this feature, still even if it did I would rather that than an expensive display.

Might as well post this in this thread as well.

Just finished playing both (again) about an hour ago. Honestly, both games are so different that I cannot say one is better then the other. Some people will like The Hobbit more, others GB but I think a majority of people will like both.

Overall I was very impressed with not only how The Hobbit looked (incredible LCD and animation work) but also played. When I play The Hobbit I get the same feeling I do when I play my WOZ at home and that is "this is a high end pinball machine". The game I played is running the latest code, version 1.10, and just like with the last code update the game is more fun with each update. Yes the playfield is open but in an instant it can be packed with the 4 pop ups going up and down. The pop up targets do not just meaninglessly go up and down both continue to get integrated with modes in interesting ways.

Keith is bringing the layout and mech / features in The Hobbit alive in unique ways that will give the game a lot of staying power. Also, out of the 6 games I played on The Hobbit I never had one issue. The Hobbit really made me feel like I was on a quest while playing the game. I think I'll be buying a Hobbit sooner rather then later.

As for Ghostbusters (pro) the game played great except for some frustrating ball drains. I did see a ball jump over one of the wire lane guides, that is extremely frustrating as there's simply no reason for it to occur. The code itself seems fairly complete at this point and the modes are fun to play. However, I do think the way modes are played (rather linear) hurts the game as you are always starting one of the same modes. I can see why Dwight makes you play the modes in a linear fashion though as you are essentially playing through the games story from start to finish.

Ghostbusters LE sold out in about a day. People are already asking 10k for it. No need to add more cost until sales start lagging.

Yeah I don't understand that. Just keep taking out features until sales slow? Sounds like a pretty crappy way to make LE's. What ever happened to Stern offering value in LE's like they did with Star Trek LE? Now LE's don't even come with the best armor option (that's extra), there's no mirrored backglass, all inserts are not color changing, etc and the games cost more then ever. Ridiculous. Sounds to me like greed is more important to management then offering customers value at the LE level...It's for those reasons alone why I won't by a new Stern LE, there simply isn't enough extra's to justify the extra cost.

Eventually the cost cutting is going to bite them in the ass. Might as well not even offer powder coated armor on the next LE and see if people will still bite. Just make the cabinet artwork package the only real difference and charge $1500 more for it...

It's the programming costs...

I thought this was designed around the premium/le so wouldn't there be more costs in the pro?

If they really own 98 percent of market I don't think they are going to get bit in the ass anytime soon. Star wars will sell like crazy regardless. Let's see what they try and get away with there.

It's weird though because they included a shaker motor in there. Shaker costs less than inserts I guess because the inserts need a lot f coding work too

The difference is whats on the playfield.
To compare the two properly, take a GB Premium playfield. Put it on top of the Hobbit playfield, right in the middle... Where there's nothing else. Nothing at all. The empty sea of space.
If you're going to accuse Stern of cutting costs and going cheap, take a good look at the amount of empty real estate and lack of toys on Hobbit.

Ghostbusters is not the right game to use if you're accusing Stern of cost cutting.
Magna slings, echo goggles, 3d printed buildings, Slimer mech, under playfield ramp...
It's pretty packed.

Haven't played the new code on Hobbit yet. Hope you guys are enjoying it. Truly.

The middle of TH is only seems empty when the 4 pop up's are down.

The Hobbit does have a lot going on it, see the list below that Keith posted a while back. In addition to the items below the large LCD display, miniature LCD display, code, animation and sound work also add a ton of value to the game. Ghostbusters code is fairly deep yet code work on TH will be far more extensive, unique and nonlinear.

11 unprecedented full control drop targets
4 pop-up beast targets
4 ball diverters
2 magnets for catching/diverting balls
Player controlled kickback ball launch
31 totally different modes giving unprecedented breath
4 player selectable drop targets
Ring button with constantly changing game context sensitive uses
3 mini wizard modes
3 major wizard modes
1 super wizard mode
Industry leading graphics on 1080p monitor
Over 60 full rgb inserts
Bunch of white gi

I'm likely going to end up buying a Hobbit and a Ghostbusters pro instead of the premium. I just can't see spending nearly $7k on a Stern premium that lacks 100% color changing inserts, and still has a DMD. After watching the live stream video the magna slicks are cool but don't appear to add a lot to the game, same with the Ecto Goggles due to the small effect. The coolest item on the premium model in my opinion is the subway ramp + physical ball lock. The movement of the slimer toy on the premium is cool but nothing rules wise appears to be programmed for it (at least yet) and when it moves away from the lighting bolt insert the game appears far to bright. The pro is definitely Stern's most loaded pro since Metallica.

Break it down and there's 4 pop ups, some controlled drop targets, and a spinning dragon head on the playfield. Really, lighting, wizard modes, regular modes... All standard stuff.

What is truly impressive about the Hobbit is the use of those pop ups and drop targets for each mode. The code on what I saw is fantastic. That's the difference that may take this game to greatness.

You forgot a lot of items from the list. There's a lot more in TH then 4 pop ups, some drops (11!) and a spinning dragon head in the game.

Keith's rules and the modes he creates are everything but standard, far from it. The code on TH is already far more interesting then the code for Ghosbusters in my opinion. I think Ghostbusters code is fun and is done well yet I find the code for the Hobbit to be far more unique and extensive as it requires the player to work the player in interesting ways. Also, the way the lockdown bar button and LCD is integrated into TH is very unique as well.

Most games have lighting, code, modes, wizard modes...
What I'm saying is, that list isn't a specialized Hobbit feature list. It's a generic pinball feature list, with about 2 Hobbit exclusive items.

Agree with you on the code though as I said in my previous post. It seems really creative and makes the most out of every item on the playfield.

It's a list specific to The Hobbit. GB has lighting, code, modes, and wizard modes as well...TH will just have 3x as much code work in it by the time Keith is done with the game.

In that case, you should grab the one that's come up for sale in Texas already.

Mic drop.

: )

You forgot legs. The Hobbit has legs, too.

Oh that's right, the legs with the highest quality powder coat being offered on a pinball machine today. Forgot about those.

It's isn't greed, it's business. They are not doing this as a hobby, they do it to pay the bills. They pay workers to work, those workers buy groceries and pay mortgages. They were never in the business of providing customers extra value, they are in the business of selling a product for money. If the product sells fast with 20 bucks less parts in it, awesome. That also leaves you a feature to add back later when sales slow.

Imagine sales of LE do drop a bit on a killer theme. The next killer theme will have an LCD as an LE only feature, and a small price bump. And the crowd will go wild.

Still just seems odd to me. I don't see Ford, GM or Chrysler stripping features out of higher end models just to see if people will keep buying the vehicle...

I'm just glad JJP is still offering value at the LE level with true high quality powder coated armor, invisiglass and I think it actually has real mirrored backglass? The last item is the one I just don't understand Stern dropping from LE's. Many of Stern's mirrored back glasses look incredible.

Smaug says different things now, the lights are different, jackpot voice is more intense, the ring button is different. You now have to hit bank targets to big ring power up.

No backglass on the GB LE?

I am bummed about that if true.

Nope, $1500 more for green armor, which isn't even the best version Stern is selling, is the only real extra. Well that and the tiny LE plaque that is barely readable, the signature on the playfield and certificate of authenticity. Everything else is just cosmetic, artwork and a translite (using same materials) also come with the pro and premium.