You mean all 2 of them? I owned many Sterns and very few issues but yeah they have a different feel than JJP or B/W's etc. who really cares, gameplay is what I'm concerned about and would much rather have a less solid feeling constructed pin thats fun than a really solid peice of crap, not saying the entire 2 pin JJP line up isn't fun but for me at least I haven't gotten anywhere near the experience I have from Stern pins, not too mention trading some build quality for 3 or 4 pins a year, sorry but it had to be said, like everything JJP it should be more solid after 4 years.

I got to play The Hobbit at ZapCon yesterday, and I've gotta say, it's pretty badass! I'd love to own one, but the price tag is just too steep for me to be a buyer. I'll be ordering a Ghostbusters Pro hopefully this week.

Stern does a great job,if you look at my games I am no stern hater,I have a lot of them but we all know woz is built like a tank and I am sure hobbit is also

Tanks are big and heavy, but they are not much fun to drive IMHO

You sure about that bro? Give me a 30 minute lesson on how to drive a tank and I'm pretty certain I'd have one hell of a time driving it

And to add to that; yea, if you jump into a speedy automatic go kart you'll need no lessons and have a blast at the beginning. Jump into a tank without lessons and you'll be dumb founded and bored. But with the right training and over time, a tank will be a blast and crush the opposition.

Here's a few observations I've noticed when I hear people talk about Ghostbusters and The Hobbit.

From those that have played Ghostbusters they seem to be extremely impressed with the game and that is just from playing the pro model. However, when it comes to talking about and playing The Hobbit I haven't heard nearly as many people with the same level of enthusiasm as with Ghosbusters. Most thoughts on The Hobbit, including my own, seem to be along the lines of "It looks cool but it doesn't seem like there's a lot of variety with shots, maybe it will get better with code", "the playfield is so wide open", "I'm not a huge fan of the movies but the game still looks cool", and "just wait until the code is done, it will be great then thanks to Keith's incredible code work".

With Ghostbusters I'm not seeing that same level of hesitation when it comes to buying the game. I've never seen this level of excitement with a pinball machine before.

Some of the best pins of all time nail the following categories

1. Interesting layout
2. Cool toys / features
3. Great, unique and deep code
4. Excellent use of licensing (including callouts by an original actor from the theme)
5. Great audio including custom tracks created for the game

Ghostbusters is hitting on all cylinders when it comes to the categories above. The Hobbit on the other hand doesn't appear to be (at least not yet) and is leaving a certain level of uncertainty with potential buyers.

Just observations.

GB. No contest. GB kept me coming back for more. I walked away from TH even after I matched.

While i think we're comparing apples to oranges here I'll say I love both stern and jjp. Two very different pins, with only similarity is same shipping time frames. Both are going to be great in their own way. I own a woz, as it's my all time favorite pin for many reasons. Acdc snd metallica are my other all timers. Woz attracts and keeps more people at my parties than any of my other machines. I was really hoping to feel better about hobbit than what I am currently. I'm going to get a gbprem though. After watching videos of TH I just don't feel the sense of action and excitement after watching GB videos. TH feels monotonous with ramps. It looks beautiful obviously. Unfortunately, if GB hadn't come out at the same time, I probably would have wanted hobbit more. GB just has too many great things going, and feels exciting and fun. I hope TH does well though, as I really want jjp to become a strong company. TH has its own market as does GB. Stern will continue to out sale jjp per title until jjp has a faster production process. Regardless, us pinheads keep winning with more titles made. Long live both stern and jjp.

Sterns are akin to Toyotas and Fords. JJPs are akin to Cadillacs and Mercedes. The former give more broad satisfaction, the latter are nicer.

Shallow coded pinball machines are kind of like blueberry pancakes.

Totally awesome at first, but then you're fuckin' sick of em.

You're still gonna order them again.

A lot of good points here. But, i tell you the truth, TH is bad ass. I just got it and its intense and exciting. A neighbor came over last night that's in my league and stayed til 1 am. He could not get enough. Stern and JJP are just two diff companies and that's a good thing. If you can get both GB and TH i would do so but play GB first. When Stern says a pin is coming out a lot of people buy it due to all the hype. If you like WOZ you will like TH. It's different but in a great way..

This is good to hear. I really like both games. I try to find a good balance of something that will hold my interest and also something that guests will have a blast playing as casual players. I can only get one, so it's a tough choice. Definitely want to see gbprem footage before deciding too.

Played the Hobbit at Automated in Connecticut. Had a blast and didn't want to leave. It was a bit floaty and had a few issues right out of the box but I really believe it was the way it was set up and like Jack said " Once it leaves and gets to its destination its your to set up however you want. " There were a few issues with the PoP ups and the ball got hung up once or twice. but the machine was just pulled out of the box and quickly set up. Even with the minor issues I couldn't get enough of the game. Had a great time exploring the machine with the new code. I noticed how when hitting certain targets the value had changed giving hints as to not hit those targets. For example when your told to hit left ramp to change the page on the book it will score at 500 points but then when your directed to hit a specific target afterwords and you hit the ramp again it would score 11 points basically telling you, YOUR DOING IT WRONG, change your target. Also got to the mode where you were not supposed to hit any drop targets and when you get through it a riddle pops up and figuring it out tells you a specific drop target to hit and all others do not count. It's definitely not easy to multi task trying to read the LCD and the display to get instructions all while following that damn silver ball. But With a high score of 260 K I got to learn a lot. I can tell you this, It's a very deep game and will only grow like WOZ. The Game is a true work of art and the sound system is outstanding. After playing this game for a few hours I can say it is getting harder and harder to wait for the arrival of my machine.

I 100% agree SKB! It would be a blast to drive a tank for a day or a week but pretty soon it would be like "oh it's time to go drive the tank again.. meh". JMHO after driving said tank, so don't take my word for it drive it your self.. Im not a tank guy (I prefer sports car)

Disclaimer: I spent 10 hours in a skid steer loader on Saturday, it beat the crap out of me.

Call me crazy, but if I had a big tank, I'd commute to work in it every day. Each day I would find, or make a new route to my office. I'd want a second tank in the garage in case I sank the first in a swimming pool or something. Sure, it would be slower than my car, but I'd never have to sit in traffic.

Ultimately, this is a another "car"gument, which I think you would both agree really does not work here. Different strokes for different folks.

I love WOZ and would prefer the sports car. Go figure.

I wasn't making a cargument! I want a F'ing tank to drive to work!!! It wasn't a metaphor, it was a TANK!!! Sorry for being off topic.

DaveH_Drives_To_Work_(resized).jpg

I met Jack and we spoke for a few hours. All I can say is Jack is a real stand up guy. Im not going into details since I know there are a lot of JJP haters on here. But I can tell you he has a lot of great Ideas he is workin on and im looking forward to seeing anything this man and his company does in the future. I know it's a team effort so We can't forget everyone that has helped him out including his staff and employees.

Get a job with NSA or Homeland Security and when they declare martial law you can drive a tank over everyone else.

What's better? A car or a tank?

Please be tasteful with comments!

After just a few games on each, I lean heavily towards GB.

I would never have thought I'd see a Stern Pro at launch look better than a JJP LE, not back a few years ago, but Stern has really stepped it up. The GB package is beautiful. Great music. Nice flow. It's high energy. Wicked bounces, but nice feeling shots. The left ramp is a great shot. Slimer toy is very neat. Immediately immersive and just a sweet pinball package with easy to follow rules, and nice variety of shots.

Hobbit is very much the opposite. Low, low energy. Art is just the plain Middle Earth type art you'd expect. Random Dwarf song/music/axe clank every time you hit anything. Smaug is forgettable as a non-interactive puppet head (literally, you forget he is there...not joking). The trolls are just that...trolls, without the witty charm of the MM trolls. You wonder why such a big open playfield, and then you realize..."Wait, they did this just to fit in more trolls?" It wasn't worth it. Playfield is just a big open, low energy playfield, and nothing really draws you in. Now, I'm sure it's more immersive in a home environment, and the guys who ordered one for their gameroom will have fun with it as you find out how deep it is, etc. But there doesn't seem to be that 'arcade hook' at all. I walked away with no desire to return anytime soon.

Never would I have thought a Stern Pro would sound better, look better, play better and just be more fun out of the box than a JJP LE. But that is the case. It's less about Hobbit being bad, which it isn't...it's just there and less than you'd expect. It's more about GB being one of the best Pro packages Stern has put out, probably THE best. Admittedly, that's just my first impression based on limited play.

After getting some more time in on Hobbit on location, my opinion is cemented:

The Hobbit is one of the most impressive pinball machines ever built...and one of the weakest pinball games.

What's the difference? You don't play a machine, you play a game, and after a half-dozen location games, I have no idea what the "game" to Hobbit is.

Six games on early code and your opinion is cemented? Sheesh. That's like claiming GB is one of the best ever, based on limited play. Oh, wait...

Absolutely. Six plays (plus another dozen over the years at various shows) were more than enough to show me where the creators priorities are.

This "early code" has lots of video clips and motion graphics and wonderful sound, but there is no game to be found. There are no clear goals and no callouts that guide the player. I get it, your "teeth are sword-zahs", but what am I shooting for??

The screen looks absolutely stunning, but as a gameplay HUD it's a huge step backwards from the modern "show me what I need then get out of the way" philosophy video games have been using for the last decade. Its very busy and needs a lot of simplifying and priotitizing of information to support a fast-action game.

The Hobbit as a platform is just awesome...now they need to make it do something fun.

I thought JJP would never release a game with incomplete code?

It's not that they "wouldn't," it's just that if a company did such a thing it should be considered "Fraud."

Sure glad I didn't give up on FGY or LOTR after 6 plays. Those are my 2 favorite Keith games and I hated them the first 20 or so plays and now 2 of my all time favorites. Keith does not do typical cookie cutter code; and what he does offer is a thing of amazement.

I do think it's funny how the Smaug head just kind of awkwardly turns away when not in use.

so good,Im using that

I think he only did the wiz mode for FGY (?), but yeah Keith and Lyman are the two best.

LOL maybe too soon, but hey, I said it was just first impression. Of recent Sterns, only maybe Metallica Pro left a better first impression. As compared to recent Stern Pros, it's obvious that GB is a step up as a package. I actually like shooting KISS Pro a lot, and think it's a heckuva sleeper that not too many praise. GOT Pro leaves me wanting more of a game, more machine. But every aspect of GB Pro is just well done and feels great, and I'm looking forward to trying a Premium.

Just the way GB seamlessly merges into that pre-bridge 'spooky' breakdown music as you shoot around... it's perfect musical integration that paces with the playfield as the game opens up... Maybe jumping the gun, yes, but I've played a lot of new titles for the first time as they hit the street over the years, and it sure feels like Stern has added one of those special titles to the pinball world.

Dude, people are beyond forum comments, there are people posting machine ratings based on less. There is a recent TWD prem/le rating on the site here from a member playing 5 games.

Early code? They've been working on it for like 3 years!

Sheesh back at ya.

Direct your Sheesh to JJP. I had nothing to do with it. And I ain't saying it's right.

But it's still early code.

Aren't most the poll results of this thread based on 6 or less plays?

Personally regardless of machine I think ratings are largely irrelevant unless a person has played the game at least 25-30 games. I realize some disagree. How many times have each of us played a pin, been very unimpressed and thought the game was mediocre or worse. Then later played the same pin, maybe with a better code, set up and/or working better and liked it a lot more?

I'm never been sure when a code gets started on a game because even far along in development the layout, toys or other things can change effecting code. I have no idea when Keith was given the green light to start on the TH code. But already the first update it out and I won't be shocked if another update comes again soon. The code on WOZ is amazingly great and I believe it will end up being so on TH. Still, I can understand your point that it's taken a long time for TH to be released and maybe some owners wish the code was further developed at this point. However, I have NO idea at all if this could have been possible or not and tend to give Keith the benefit of the doubt.

My opinion is that the only review that is relevant for yourself is your own review. I had some VERY highly rated games that just do not click with me personally, so I gave up on putting any value in reviews of others for my own buying decisions.

Not that they are not very helpful and important by the way. I love reading them and getting to know for what reason other people like or dislike a game. It is just that some enjoy fast games with a lot of flow with a very clear objective, and others enjoy a deep game with a lot of strategy. And almost everything in between. So for me the reviews/ratings are more like the impressions of the writer.

I'm not a huge fan of the theme, but the GB artwork is sensational. The more I see it the more I want one.

The flippers on the hobit I was playing on location were losing some power. I was not able to back hand the ramps after about 2 hours of play. I really liked the modes were the pop ups turned into stationary bash toys tho.