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(Topic ID: 165581)

Ghostbusters cancellations and Ghosting Financial Damage


By FalconPunch

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 105 posts
  • 76 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Mike_J
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What is your GB situation”

  • Ordered GB Pro and Cancelled 10 votes
    4%
  • Ordered GB Premium and Cancelled 40 votes
    17%
  • Ordered LE and Cancelled 16 votes
    7%
  • Was 100% going to order GB Pro/Premium when in stock but not going to anymore 58 votes
    24%
  • Was on the fence about it ordering GB Pro/Premium but not going to anymore 35 votes
    15%
  • Wasn't interested in GB, but will not order new titles until I know issue is resolved. 81 votes
    34%

(240 votes)

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There are 105 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 4 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Not really... your game will be worth less than other "correct" MMr's if you need to sell it. That's IF you can sell it with all the other MMr's up for sale with decent PF's. And the company could *give a sh#t* about all of you guys. Your 8k wasn't as good as the next guy's apparently. That really pissed me off.

I agree with what you are saying. I'm just saying I feel bad for you guys with the Stern insert issues because it's a worse problem than the MMr insert issues, IMO.
I hope Stern does something.

-1
#52 4 years ago

Here's my move,i have a Stern tech come and completely set up my pin,mods and all! If i find any crap on my pin,Stern will hear about it that instant!Then,my tech and Stern WILL fix any issue we might have,there and then.I didn't have any issues with my nib ST/Pre,so i'm keeping my fingers crossed! Gameroomguys says the holdup is so they can fix all issues with the PRes! PROs and LEs go fish!

#53 4 years ago

I just ordered a GB Pro today taking delivery in January. I will stay informed of the situation and hope for the best. I too am anal about my pins and would like it to be perfect - when paying this amount of money I expect a new machine to be new and without defects.

I also ordered a Met Pro for delivery on the same day in January. I'll have two machines to compare and I'm betting their past the issues and ready to provide excellent customer service if issues pop up.

#54 4 years ago

for those arguing : "its nothing, just play the pin & forget about it"
OK, its a positive way of life, but it will not resolve this prob (as it is a real prob !)

now, lets admit its quite limited for some (at the moment, but nobody knows how it will goes later), and for some others its already a real pain, no need to recall why and/or post pics here

than, unless you're not concerned with this prob, better not to told others how they have to deal with it
and in the case you're concerned, and still didnt care, wow ! dont know what to say...

#55 4 years ago

So all of you 'Why get your panties in such a bunch?" guys are regularly spending $8K on things that when you open the box, if there are material defects-the distributor can't do anything for you, the manufacturer won't do anything for you, and many of your fellow 'hobbyists' are telling you to just 'eat it and shut up'.

I do NOT expect perfection, and I buy my games to PLAY, but this is a an unneeded risk in my life, and it makes me feel like the people to whom I'm shelling out big bucks are taking advantage of me. I guess a lot of you have way more 'throw away' money than I.

#56 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Umm....looks like your storage facility insert is starting to ghost and your Tobins insert is absolutely ghosting.

Ummm this.

LOL @ posting pictures of ghosting inserts and claiming your playfield is in perfect shape.

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from chuckcasey:

I just ordered a GB Pro today taking delivery in January.

Wow, is that how backed up they still are?

#58 4 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Not really... your game will be worth less than other "correct" MMr's if you need to sell it. That's IF you can sell it with all the other MMr's up for sale with decent PF's. And the company could *give a sh#t* about all of you guys. Your 8k wasn't as good as the next guy's apparently. That really pissed me off.

Take a deep breath. Of course an MMR with faded inserts or a GB with ghosted inserts will sell for less than an otherwise comparable game with perfect inserts. Playfield condition is always a factor in price. But to suggest that he wouldn't be able to sell his faded-insert MMR at all is just plain silly.

And anyone who has visited any of the MMR threads over the past few months is well aware how you feel about the faded inserts and PPS/CGC customer service by now, so no need to carry on over here in the GB thread. They've got problems enough of their own!

#59 4 years ago

Ok well maybe it's not depreciated 50%. But for someone that's busy with life and wants it right it's easily a $2500 pain in the a$$. I've kept my premium ordered but only have a deposit down. For me when it comes time to pay in full I'd certainly like the situation improved. Personally I'd rather spend my time playing pinball then stressing over something I had no control over. Remember for some people time is money

#60 4 years ago
Quoted from Jamie126:

Amazing how some people just don't get it. Sure it's pinball things break all the time. But these bad playfields are deprecating these machines 50 percent in the first month. That's a tough pill to swallow and certainly not a risk most are willing to take

Really?!

Please point me to some $2500 Ghosted Edition ghostbusters games I can buy.

#61 4 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Umm....looks like your storage facility insert is starting to ghost and your Tobins insert is absolutely ghosting.

I don' see ghosting on the storage facility insert but the Tobins insert is sunken down on one side leaving a ridge between the insert and the play field. You can feel the insert is not flat and not correctly installed.

It's not going to stop me from playing the hell out it, it's a great pin!

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#62 4 years ago
Quoted from Jamie126:

Ok well maybe it's not depreciated 50%. But for someone that's busy with life and wants it right it's easily a $2500 pain in the a$$. I've kept my premium ordered but only have a deposit down. For me when it comes time to pay in full I'd certainly like the situation improved. Personally I'd rather spend my time playing pinball then stressing over something I had no control over. Remember for some people time is money

Well if you buy a Premium and then decide to resell at a $2500 loss due to ghosting, sounds like you'll have a nice lineup of customers!

#63 4 years ago

Sure right now. But 18 months from now? Not so sure

#64 4 years ago
Quoted from Jamie126:

Ok well maybe it's not depreciated 50%. But for someone that's busy with life and wants it right it's easily a $2500 pain in the a$$. I've kept my premium ordered but only have a deposit down. For me when it comes time to pay in full I'd certainly like the situation improved. Personally I'd rather spend my time playing pinball then stressing over something I had no control over. Remember for some people time is money

so stop stressing, stop posting about it and spend your time playing pinball.
and you're still not making any sense with your $2500 figure.

#65 4 years ago

So 41 cancelled, no big deal they sold a ton GB.

#66 4 years ago

I can understand the pissed off people.. you spend a lot of money and it is something on easily fixed. If it was a VUK or something that needs to be replaced, no big deal, but this is a piece that is hard to fix and most would not be willing to risk trying to fix. So trying to minimize it and say they are whining is a bit insensitive.

It is a real problem for people that are having this problem as their system is immediately worth less than someone who isn't having the problem. They can only hope that stern does something to fix this or it happens to all of the games and is just a known issue that people take in account when they buy one. I would hope that stern does something, but the problem already seems to be out of hand that I doubt they would do something about it as it will cost too much.

#67 4 years ago
Quoted from chuckcasey:

I just ordered a GB Pro today taking delivery in January. I will stay informed of the situation and hope for the best. I too am anal about my pins and would like it to be perfect - when paying this amount of money I expect a new machine to be new and without defects.
I also ordered a Met Pro for delivery on the same day in January. I'll have two machines to compare and I'm betting their past the issues and ready to provide excellent customer service if issues pop up.

If they're quoting 4+ months now, I'm guessing they're still a long way from having a plentiful supply of defect free PFs for GB and / or other games ....

#68 4 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Take a deep breath. Of course an MMR with faded inserts or a GB with ghosted inserts will sell for less than an otherwise comparable game with perfect inserts. Playfield condition is always a factor in price. But to suggest that he wouldn't be able to sell his faded-insert MMR at all is just plain silly.
And anyone who has visited any of the MMR threads over the past few months is well aware how you feel about the faded inserts and PPS/CGC customer service by now, so no need to carry on over here in the GB thread. They've got problems enough of their own!

Hey HE'S the one that brought it up. I just hope Stern doesn't take a page out of the PPS playbook and "knowingly" send out bad product to customers.

I still have hope that's not the case. But apparently I was naive about how these businesses are run so who knows?

#69 4 years ago

I'm going to coin a new phrase. We are not longer going to call them NIB. If someone is selling an unopened game it is SPM.

"Schrodinger's Pinball Machine"

We used to go through this when a game in box was pulled from a warehouse. People would be throwing crazy bids. Others with no intention of buying would be saying "I wonder if there's battery damage".

They always sold, and sold for big.

#70 4 years ago

So I have skin in the game with GBLE as my play field is jacked up out of the box and degrading by the week. Started off with a couple inserts ghosting and now the arrow and Slimer inserts are developing "bubbles" and becoming more obscured at an accelerated pace.

Here's the deal in my opinion... Dropped $8K cash for a new toy. The game should be new. I get the " it's pinball " and " some are just hyper critical ", etc; but you purchased a new game. Not a previously enjoyed unit. If Stern wants to sell previously enjoyed or manufacturer defect units, price them appropriately and enjoy a new revenue stream. For the rest of us that want a new game, please ensure the game is in NIB condition.

Currently working with Stern and my distributor to make things right, but no solid answers yet. I'm cautiously optimistic after all the BS, Stern will make it right.

#71 4 years ago
Quoted from AliciaC:

So I have skin in the game with GBLE as my play field is jacked up out of the box and degrading by the week. Started off with a couple inserts ghosting and now the arrow and Slimer inserts are developing "bubbles" and becoming more obscured at an accelerated pace.
Here's the deal in my opinion... Dropped $8K cash for a new toy. The game should be new. I get the " it's pinball " and " some are just hyper critical ", etc; but you purchased a new game. Not a previously enjoyed unit. If Stern wants to sell previously enjoyed or manufacturer defect units, price them appropriately and enjoy a new revenue stream. For the rest of us that want a new game, please ensure the game is in NIB condition.
Currently working with Stern and my distributor to make things right, but no solid answers yet. I'm cautiously optimistic after all the BS, Stern will make it right.

I agree.... Also, if this was the norm and playfields did this all the time its a different story. But thats not the case. Its a real frign problem . If you want to ignore the fact, so be it. But seriously, I will not by another NIB game till rest assured this is resolved.

#72 4 years ago
Quoted from Wakky:

Absolutely agree 100 % ...even the original poster comes from a back ground of being on another forum called aussie arcade where they all complain about anything ... typical!

Can't really blame the OP for posting on pinside in wanting to get a broader perspective though, particularly since AussieArcade is based so heavily on an ideology of insularity.

If anything the more I see Aussies posting on pinside, the more I see it as another positive step in the right direction for pinball in Australia.

Quoted from Otaku:

There's like 4 of these poll threads with the same premise (and even the same ghosting joke, lol). Are you all talking to the same lawyer who tells you to get people to back you up?
Just wondering, where is this data going to make a change? There are at least 4 of these threads asking to collect poll information on Ghostbusters ghosting in the exact same way you are, like oddly similar.
Where is this data going? Is it helping?

Is there a repair, replacement or refund requirement for retailers under US consumer law? There is under Australian law for consumer goods which are not fit for purpose, free from defects or do not match what was originally advertised. Retailers must by law offer one of the three for any goods which do not meet the standards mentioned. No need for solicitors (attorneys) or any type of group class action either unless the matter is taken further to litigation.

That's the avenue I would be taking for a much faster resolution were I so inclined rather than waiting around for a vague statement from the manufacturer.

#73 4 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

I'm in as soon as playfield issues get worked out...

Same here!

#74 4 years ago

Eh, i'll wait some 20 years and pick up a renovation GB cheap instead of shelling out 7000 USD now.

#75 4 years ago

I keep reading about all these cancellations on orders yet I can't seem to find one , anywhere. I called almost everyone.

Can someone give a dist who has a LE avail?

#76 4 years ago

I would expect most distributors, if not all, may have a waiting list of people who wanted an GBLE in the event of a cancellation. Therefore, any available LE might default to the next person on that list. But what do I know?

#77 4 years ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I keep reading about all these cancellations on orders yet I can't seem to find one , anywhere. I called almost everyone.

No luck with this one?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-ghostbusters-premiumle-stern-2016-2027

I'm sure you guys can work out a reasonable shipping arrangement, since it's already boxed and strapped to a pallet.

#78 4 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

I'm going to coin a new phrase. We are not longer going to call them NIB. If someone is selling an unopened game it is SPM.
"Schrodinger's Pinball Machine"
We used to go through this when a game in box was pulled from a warehouse. People would be throwing crazy bids. Others with no intention of buying would be saying "I wonder if there's battery damage".
They always sold, and sold for big.

I can see the FS ad 5 years from now...

"NIB GBLE: Inserts are both fine & ghosted until observed"

#79 4 years ago

I'm definitely getting a Premium and am as excited about the game as anyone else, but am waiting a year or so for the kinks to be ironed out, and expect a drama-free experience at that point (I have every confidence that Stern will fix whatever production problem is leading to these issues sooner rather than later). I have been well served taking this approach with pins, vehicles, and other major purchases of complex stuff. Delayed gratification is much better than immediate frustration, and experience has taught me that one rarely escapes the early adopter penalty when it involves a product as complicated as a pinball machine.

#80 4 years ago

I called sales at Stern and got a lady, I told her that I wanted to buy a ghostbusters pinball but was concerned about the playfield, she then said it was a small percentage and before I could even say anything transferred me to service. I got voicemail there for a guy named Patrick which I left a voicemail stating my concerns and left my email and phone number. On their website it doesn't say anything about the warranty, it just is a form, so I'm wondering what the warranty is on these things.

Sucks because I have a hard time buying pins, I don't know if I am super picky about games or what, but I don't like a lot of them. Of course the one I do like, and the one my wife loves, is one that is having playfield issues. I even tried to get her to agree to buy one that is half the price of this one and she balked at it she wants this one so bad. Which is just crazy, she is always luke warm when it comes to pinball but for ghostbusters she'll even watch some play vids.

#81 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

So 41 cancelled, no big deal they sold a ton GB.

41 x $5,000 = $205,000

41 x $6,500 = $266,500

41 x $8000 = $328,000

Yeah, I think they would be mildly upset to lose 41 sales and probably more.

#82 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

41 x $5,000 = $205,000
41 x $6,500 = $266,500
41 x $8000 = $328,000
Yeah, I think they would be mildly upset to lose 41 sales and probably more.

Every single one coming off the line is going to a customer, there isn't any build up of inventory....So there isn't any loss of sales.

#83 4 years ago
Quoted from AliciaC:

So I have skin in the game with GBLE as my play field is jacked up out of the box and degrading by the week. Started off with a couple inserts ghosting and now the arrow and Slimer inserts are developing "bubbles" and becoming more obscured at an accelerated pace

Most of the large inserts on my GB Pro have a bubbling or crazing effect. The thing is, if you look at certain angles (straight above) the inserts look crystal clear. At an angle though, they become almost opaque with the bubbles.

Rob

#84 4 years ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Every single one coming off the line is going to a customer, there isn't any build up of inventory....So there isn't any loss of sales.

For the LEs this makes sense (i.e. so long as they sell all 700 or whatever, a "lost sale" isn't a financial loss to them in the immediate term). But for standards and premiums, even if they're doing "just in time" production runs, every canceled order is a loss of whatever their profit margin on that game would have been had they made it and shipped it.

#85 4 years ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Every single one coming off the line is going to a customer, there isn't any build up of inventory....So there isn't any loss of sales.

Thanks Gary for letting us know.

#86 4 years ago
Quoted from ibjames:

Of course the one I do like, and the one my wife loves, is one that is having playfield issues.

There are several Stern pins affected, not just Ghostbusters.

#87 4 years ago

I've had my GB LE 3 weeks tomorrow, just inspected the inserts again and they are still perfectly fine. Strange some have issues and others not....Bad batch of clear?

#88 4 years ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

Bad batch of clear?

Nope. This issue has been going on all year across multiple games. It isn't just a bad batch of clear.

#89 4 years ago

Yeah everywhere day I'm getting more ghosting

#90 4 years ago

So still nothing from Stern except for a secret program and they are still shipping defective games?

#91 4 years ago
Quoted from clg:

So still nothing from Stern except for a secret program and they are still shipping defective games?

well, quite strange that we have no news here, as a french distro (should be !? i dont know that guy) said 2 days ago more on the "program"...

read by yourself : middle of the page 81 : http://www.flipjuke.fr/club-des-possesseurs-ghostbusters-t118731-800.html

#92 4 years ago

So basically they say they will contact any owner of the GB's send out. He says 5 to 6 machines are affected. they will contact the owners, make a complete file of the problems (photo's etc) and send this to Stern for review. As of October full playfield will be send to the customer for replacement, if they can do that themself. Or just piece for piece (step-by-step??). The program runs to Januari 2017 after this date al should be normal. It seems that the issues are with the playfield manufacturer, issues will be solved for now and future machines and stern will do all the fullfill customers satisfaction.

What worries me is there is nothing on what is severe, one ghosting insert? Two, a chip from the shooterlane. Also I think they will make it right no doubt but if your playfield is good now, what if thus starts ghosting in 2 months? What is a reasonnable timeframe for warranty on a playfield?

#93 4 years ago
Quoted from Flato:

Yeah everywhere day I'm getting more ghosting

Well it is (ghost) busters. Lol.

#94 4 years ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

I've had my GB LE 3 weeks tomorrow, just inspected the inserts again and they are still perfectly fine. Strange some have issues and others not....Bad batch of clear?

Pics or it didn't happen.

#95 4 years ago

I cancelled my Batman preorder, until it all gets figured out.

#96 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I cancelled my Batman preorder, until it all gets figured out.

#97 4 years ago
Quoted from pinsanity:

Is there a repair, replacement or refund requirement for retailers under US consumer law? There is under Australian law for consumer goods which are not fit for purpose, free from defects or do not match what was originally advertised. Retailers must by law offer one of the three for any goods which do not meet the standards mentioned. No need for solicitors (attorneys) or any type of group class action either unless the matter is taken further to litigation.
That's the avenue I would be taking for a much faster resolution were I so inclined rather than waiting around for a vague statement from the manufacturer.

Key words: Consumer Goods.

A coin operated pinball machine is a Commercial piece of equipment. Regardless of who buys it.

In the late 1970's, Bally created a "Consumer Products Division" When those Bally Professional Arcade video games started failing, the division was quickly eliminated as the Consumer Protection Laws came into play and Bally never experienced having to refund purchase prices in full before. And they never did again.

Same with the "Professional Home Model" Pinball Machines.

#98 4 years ago

I'm thinking about canceling my premium and getting MMR. Haven't quite decided on the decision. Going to check out an LE on location in the Boise area sometime next week.

#99 4 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Key words: Consumer Goods.
A coin operated pinball machine is a Commercial piece of equipment. Regardless of who buys it.
In the late 1970's, Bally created a "Consumer Products Division" When those Bally Professional Arcade video games started failing, the division was quickly eliminated as the Consumer Protection Laws came into play and Bally never experienced having to refund purchase prices in full before. And they never did again.
Same with the "Professional Home Model" Pinball Machines.

Okay, so that may be an attempt to alleviate any liability at the manufacturer level but what about at the retailer level? Manufacturers in Australia are not required to provide a repair, replacement or refund when dealing directly with an end user claim only a recovery of costs (e.g. a claim for loss of value in the product due to the defect). That is why it may have been more beneficial to focus on action at the retailer/distro level which offers all three recovery options for restitution. Again I am talking about Aus legislation, so this may not be applicable under US law.

Our domestic Australian legislation only has a commercial/consumer test requirement if the goods are valued at more than $40,000 so was interested if there was any similar threshold under US law.

This is why our local sole distributor AMD has implemented a compulsory policy of opening and inspecting all NIB for testing and inspection prior to release to an individual.

Might be worth investigating further on a local US level?

#100 4 years ago
Quoted from Herm:

I'm thinking about canceling my premium and getting MMR. Haven't quite decided on the decision. Going to check out an LE on location in the Boise area sometime next week.

What's an mmr??

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There are 105 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.

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