Ghostbuster Issue Thread

(Topic ID: 158288)

Ghostbuster Issue Thread


By exflexer

2 years ago



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#251 2 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

yes it sucks. Pinball is just one of those hobbies where you do NOT want the first ones. I always want as close to the last one made of any game. Those usually have all the fixes worked out.

I hear ya man - just unfortunate there's no faith in the Stern QA and testing process that people in this hobby have to expect defective products with new releases. I get it though.

I'm curious how Stern will handle this wire form bending issue though. The LE's aren't on the line yet, and they obviously know of the problem by now- lets see if they just ignore it and keep the production going with the problem or hit the pause button and fix it on the line for current Pro's and LE's. If they don't, that's just a bunch of crap

#252 2 years ago

I did the code update on my Ghostbusters and now Slimer does not come down to hit anymore. Is there anyway to fix that?

#253 2 years ago

WE all just saw LE footage being played. So they must be on the line or you wouldn't have seen it.

#254 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

I hear ya man - just unfortunate there's no faith in the Stern QA and testing process that people in this hobby have to expect defective products with new releases. I get it though.
I'm curious how Stern will handle this wire form bending issue though. The LE's aren't on the line yet, and they obviously know of the problem by now- lets see if they just ignore it and keep the production going with the problem or hit the pause button and fix it on the line for current Pro's and LE's. If they don't, that's just a bunch of crap

you have to understand... the business is ALWAYS about keeping the production line going. Designing games does not make money, testing games does not make money, only boxing games up and shipping them does. So it takes a BIG problem to say STOP the line. If its something they can address after the fact, there is less reason to stop the line and stop shipping stuff.

Stern has been in this current quagmire about parts funnel slowing them down, but normally you don't stop the game production unless the stuff has really hit the fan. Games can be retrofitted, software can be written, but you can't pause the expenses meter that is always churning.

Stern is a lot more dynamic than the big guys used to be.. but they gotta be shipping games.. and shipping/building games is something you can only do based on prior scheduling/forecasting/ordering of parts.. so their options are limited.

The TL;DR - unless the sky is falling, you don't stop the line, you retrofit after the fact and plan for future change orders for later builds. Don't stop the heart of the company.

#255 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

you have to understand... the business is ALWAYS about keeping the production line going. Designing games does not make money, testing games does not make money, only boxing games up and shipping them does. So it takes a BIG problem to say STOP the line. If its something they can address after the fact, there is less reason to stop the line and stop shipping stuff.
Stern has been in this current quagmire about parts funnel slowing them down, but normally you don't stop the game production unless the stuff has really hit the fan. Games can be retrofitted, software can be written, but you can't pause the expenses meter that is always churning.
Stern is a lot more dynamic than the big guys used to be.. but they gotta be shipping games.. and shipping/building games is something you can only do based on prior scheduling/forecasting/ordering of parts.. so their options are limited.
The TL;DR - unless the sky is falling, you don't stop the line, you retrofit after the fact and plan for future change orders for later builds. Don't stop the heart of the company.

That's why the have multiple lines making many games- why not just pause the like making the one game with the problem, fix it, restart line? The heart of the company is not a single game, which is why they have many in production at any given time.

If they can pause a production line to fix just about every modern consumer electronic device, automobile, etc... Why can they not to the same with a Ghostbuster's pinball machine? To just run a business cranking out machines with known manufacturer defects is just bad business, and is not cool to the customer- why does anyone feel the need to defend this?

Also, if the game can be fixed via retrofit - and they are unwilling to stop the production line, why not do the retrofit at the factory prior to boxing and shipping? Is that too much to ask, because "Pinball hobby"?

#256 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

you have to understand... the business is ALWAYS about keeping the production line going. Designing games does not make money, testing games does not make money, only boxing games up and shipping them does. So it takes a BIG problem to say STOP the line. If its something they can address after the fact, there is less reason to stop the line and stop shipping stuff.
Stern has been in this current quagmire about parts funnel slowing them down, but normally you don't stop the game production unless the stuff has really hit the fan. Games can be retrofitted, software can be written, but you can't pause the expenses meter that is always churning.
Stern is a lot more dynamic than the big guys used to be.. but they gotta be shipping games.. and shipping/building games is something you can only do based on prior scheduling/forecasting/ordering of parts.. so their options are limited.
The TL;DR - unless the sky is falling, you don't stop the line, you retrofit after the fact and plan for future change orders for later builds. Don't stop the heart of the company.

Agree that the line needs to be dialed ( you get the results you plan for ), but partially disagree with the stopping the line comment. Not knowing the specifics behind Stern's process, but most manufacturing facilities leverage Lean Sigma principles ( some more than others ) which encourages line level associates to stop the line to problem solve variants. The thought process is solving the problem at the root cause by the staff that performs the work all day every day has a higher ROI than dealing with a shit ton of variants after the fact.

Just speaking out of experience, but Stern's line(s) can run completely different.

#257 2 years ago

Damn KPG - we must have pressed send at the same time, but our thought process is identical

#258 2 years ago
Quoted from AliciaC:

Damn KPG - we must have pressed send at the same time, but our thought process is identical

Exactly man ! 13-14+ years ago I worked at Flextronics while they made PCB's for the original Xbox 1. Many times the line was paused to implement fixes and changes, then restarted. PCB's were junked it it was reported to have an issue, as obviously fixing the product *before* it hits consumers homes was the key.

I guess in the pinball hobby people are more lenient and complacent with what seems to be a higher defect rate and lower build quality expectation. Stern probably doesn't care much as they read Pinside and see all the guys with up votes making excuses on their behalf, and they know we can't pack up the machine and go into a retailer and ask to switch for a new one or get a refund. Imagine if Stern made these things for Costco? (They may have at one point if I recall) - Costco would tell them to piss off once they saw the level of issues out of the box.

Fact is, many people are right here- you need to set expectations for many issues, defects, failures, and problems with games out of the box. For a company with 30+ years of experience with pinball machines being on their production line, I find that extremely disappointing considering most of these problems should have been caught during the testing process. From lights being miswired, or not wired at all, to broken switches being installed, flippers not working, etc etc it's not the hobby itself with the problem.. It's the questionable management of a consumer electronics production line that happens to build pinball machines. Not a shining example of American / US made products at all.

I literally cannot recall a Chinese made electronic product or device that had physical defects out of the box that I've purchased in a LONG time... Yet, here on Pinside.. The advice is to literally wait months to purchase the machine, not be part of the hobby, or just expect shoddy quality out of the box. Amazing, considering how expensive these things are now.

#259 2 years ago

At least the bent rail will probably get a permanent solution. The slimer on the other hand will need to be constantly adjusted and will probably never work dependably on location.

I think the 3x target behind the slimer should count as a slimer hit during the mode based on how many null hits the slimer takes.

#260 2 years ago
Quoted from achtungboyy:

I did the code update on my Ghostbusters and now Slimer does not come down to hit anymore. Is there anyway to fix that?

Check it in diagnostics.

#261 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Exactly man ! 13-14+ years ago I worked at Flextronics while they made PCB's for the original Xbox 1. Many times the line was paused to implement fixes and changes, then restarted. PCB's were junked it it was reported to have an issue, as obviously fixing the product *before* it hits consumers homes was the key.
I guess in the pinball hobby people are more lenient and complacent with what seems to be a higher defect rate and lower build quality expectation. Stern probably doesn't care much as they read Pinside and see all the guys with up votes making excuses on their behalf, and they know we can't pack up the machine and go into a retailer and ask to switch for a new one or get a refund. Imagine if Stern made these things for Costco? (They may have at one point if I recall) - Costco would tell them to piss off once they saw the level of issues out of the box.
Fact is, many people are right here- you need to set expectations for many issues, defects, failures, and problems with games out of the box. For a company with 30+ years of experience with pinball machines being on their production line, I find that extremely disappointing considering most of these problems should have been caught during the testing process. From lights being miswired, or not wired at all, to broken switches being installed, flippers not working, etc etc it's not the hobby itself with the problem.. It's the questionable management of a consumer electronics production line that happens to build pinball machines. Not a shining example of American / US made products at all.
I literally cannot recall a Chinese made electronic product or device that had physical defects out of the box that I've purchased in a LONG time... Yet, here on Pinside.. The advice is to literally wait months to purchase the machine, not be part of the hobby, or just expect shoddy quality out of the box. Amazing, considering how expensive these things are now.

and yet, they didn't fix the one major problem they had. Overheating and causing cold solder joints on the graphics and processor chip. SO people had problems down the line. Not everything is fixable right away. some things need to be fixed later on.

It's not just as easy as stopping the line. You don't magically have the new part sitting there. You have to have a metal stamper or whoever, have the parts made, and get them to you. Short run metal stampers take about a month to 2 months to even get a rush job through. So the line is suppose to sit in limbo with half completed machines sitting there for a wire that bends? This is something they can correct and send out a fix later. I see why stern isn't stopping production, but I can see them fixing it down the road.

#262 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

That's why the have multiple lines making many games- why not just pause the like making the one game with the problem, fix it, restart line? The heart of the company is not a single game, which is why they have many in production at any given time.

They can switch - but at a cost and only if that next game is queued up already. That means many things were scheduled before... Subassemblies ready, parts inventory ready, etc. those things all have lead times, inventory costs to stock, so these switches while they can be done, are not just arbitrary decisions.. But decisions with scheduling dependencies and costs. If the alt game isn't already queued... You have big holes.

You can't build what you haven't already been planning to build because of parts and staging.

Quoted from kpg:

If they can pause a production line to fix just about every modern consumer electronic device, automobile, etc... Why can they not to the same with a Ghostbuster's pinball machine? To just run a business cranking out machines with known manufacturer defects is just bad business, and is not cool to the customer- why does anyone feel the need to defend this?

Because we know how the sausage is made and don't live in the idealized world. We live in the real world. Stopping production is a big deal when you have quotas to meet and delivery targets. The engineers have to evaluate the problem and determine the course of action - and determine if you stop in the meantime. But you can't think about it as "how do we get it perfect". The time for that was back in dvt and sample build runs. Those big companies you refer to spend a lot more time testing and running protos to ensure you don't go production until things are ready. Back in the day Williams would make dozens of samples and put them through stress. Early runs could very much differ from the main push. They iterated... Not stop and go.

Stern doesn't do as much location and in the wild testing anymore. They do smaller runs and can't make 50+ sample games. The fact they can rerun older games should offset the fact they have less parallel design teams running, so a project can be late if known soon enough... But they have cheapened out on their field and prototype testing. That hurts them in this topic.

So complain they should test more... I agree. But stop for things that can be iterated on or retrofitted? No way.

Quoted from kpg:

Also, if the game can be fixed via retrofit - and they are unwilling to stop the production line, why not do the retrofit at the factory prior to boxing and shipping? Is that too much to ask, because "Pinball hobby"?

That's what you'd do if the solution was ready and you had the space/capacity to do it. But if you have not settled on the solution yet....

#263 2 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

and yet, they didn't fix the one major problem they had. Overheating and causing cold solder joints on the graphics and processor chip. SO people had problems down the line.

Well, that issue never occurred with Xbox 1. That was the Red Ring of Death (RRoD) issue on the Xbox 360, which the ones that had the problem were built on a different production line then the original XB1.

That issue hurt the image of Microsoft and Xbox, and cost them a substantial amount of money to resolve. It was determined cost and time savings measures on the production line were at fault, and look what happened- the consumer got screwed, it hurt the business and image of Microsoft and Xbox, and it cost them a lot of money to fix after the fact.

But somehow this is the 'norm' and expected with Pinball.

Guess my point is that instead of making excuses on Stern's behalf and being ok with mediocre testing and build quality, we should raise our voices and have some backbone and maybe they'll revise their production line build and testing procedures, and improve their products as a whole. Now, wouldn't that be nice? Why not encourage them to improve, and not make excuses on their behalf like 90% of the people here do?

All I know is I don't want my GB LE to sit turned off for 3 weeks like my NIB MET did while I awaited new parts. The whole "wait for premiums/they will be built better and without issues" didn't work in that case, as my MET Premium was built in Nov 2015.

I can repair 90% of a pinball machine on my own, that's no problem. I just can't be one of the people here making an excuse for poor testing and defective products at this price point, sorry. So downvote my criticism like what's done before, but by accepting this just allows more consumer frustration and less motivation for Stern to revise their production methods and improve the product that we, the consumers, spend $5-8,000 on.

#264 2 years ago
Quoted from AliciaC:

Agree that the line needs to be dialed ( you get the results you plan for ), but partially disagree with the stopping the line comment. Not knowing the specifics behind Stern's process, but most manufacturing facilities leverage Lean Sigma principles ( some more than others ) which encourages line level associates to stop the line to problem solve variants. The thought process is solving the problem at the root cause by the staff that performs the work all day every day has a higher ROI than dealing with a shit ton of variants after the fact.
Just speaking out of experience, but Stern's line(s) can run completely different.

Big difference between pausing the line to ensure adherence to previously defined standards and stopping the line for perceived design changes. Your classic Toyota lean which all that is based on is based on the idea of valuing the workers and their insight and potential contribution... So you listen to them and their input. You reduce lead times to enable flexibility. You focus on jit to reduce waste.

Those line workers would have the power to say the parts in my bin are not up to spec... Stop and let's fix the source. They'd make recommendations on how to improve the process in a continual way. They wouldn't stop the line saying "this movement sucks, lets reengineer the board to reduce the steps.. And do nothing until that change is done".

This all boils down to how significant is the problem and the potential fixes. A bending wire guide is not nuclear meltdown... Even if it's kpg's first preorder.

#265 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Guess my point is that instead of making excuses on Stern's behalf and being ok with mediocre testing and build quality, we should raise our voices and have some backbone and maybe they'll revise their production line build and testing procedures, and improve their products as a whole. Now, wouldn't that be nice? Why not encourage them to improve, and not make excuses on their behalf like 90% of the people here do?

Well who was complaining about product delays just 2 weeks ago? And aren't you one of 500ish people that said "shut up and take my money" as soon as you saw a picture of a game? Who wanted they urges satisfied at all other expenses?

If you want to start talking about sending a message and encouraging something... You better start with a look in the mirror and changing your own behavior.

Money talks... Not customers that buy blindly over and over no matter what you do.

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#266 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Well who was complaining about product delays just 2 weeks ago? And aren't you one of 500ish people that said "shut up and take my money" as soon as you saw a picture of a game? Who wanted they urges satisfied at all other expenses?
If you want to start talking about sending a message and encouraging something... You better start with a look in the mirror and changing your own behavior.
Money talks... Not customers that buy blindly over and over no matter what you do.

LOL - typical Kool-Aid drinker talk around here.

Once again, it's my fault for wanting to support Stern and pay them $8,000 for a pinball machine that they have had 30 years of experiencing building similar ones, but with different art and sound work.

What an idiot I am to expect it to work out of the box.

It's "My Fault" I expect a working and properly tested product out of the box.

How dumb I was to expect my NIB MET to work back in December- TWO YEARS after the first one rolled off the line- but no, it was dead for 3 weeks after I pulled it out of the box.

But go ahead, accumulate those up votes by once again pointing the finger at the CUSTOMER who buys products from Stern and keeps them in business.

13
#267 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

LOL - typical Kool-Aid drinker talk around here.
Once again, it's my fault for wanting to support Stern and pay them $8,000 for a pinball machine that they have had 30 years of experiencing building similar ones, but with different art and sound work.
What an idiot I am to expect it to work out of the box.
It's "My Fault" I expect a working and properly tested product out of the box.
How dumb I was to expect my NIB MET to work back in December- TWO YEARS after the first one rolled off the line- but no, it was dead for 3 weeks after I pulled it out of the box.
But go ahead, accumulate those up votes by once again pointing the finger at the CUSTOMER who buys products from Stern and keeps them in business.

I'm guessing most people here actually do agree with you but are just getting tired of your broken record approach to complaining. I get your frustration, but I'm also tired of reading about it every second post.

#268 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

It's "My Fault" I expect a working and properly tested product out of the box.

No, it's your fault for being uninformed about a long established company and market, then jumping in blindly, and then pouting why it's not like the consumer electronics business you thought it would be.

This isn't consumer electronics.

But its funny how you advocate for change... yet won't face your actions are the very type that enable the company to resist changing. Or your insistence on the company must show product (before they are ready..) and then on the other hand insisting the company stop everything to ensure things are perfect. You can't seem to make up your mind except to want everything...

#269 2 years ago
Quoted from Ed209:

I'm guessing most people here actually do agree with you but are just getting tired of your broken record approach to complaining. I get your frustration, but I'm also tired of reading about it every second post.

seeing as you are one of the 5 people who constantly downvote my posts, you do know I'm simply responding to people who defend a broken QA process and am sticking up for those who have also been affected by poor quality testing and build quality. Sorry for being the one with the balls to speak up on behalf of consumers.

Sometimes it takes a broken record to get things fixed.

#270 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

This isn't consumer electronics.

It's not consumer electronics?

Then why don't you tell Stern to update their LinkedIn Profile and change it from "Consumer Electronics"

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#271 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

LOL - typical Kool-Aid drinker talk around here.
Once again, it's my fault for wanting to support Stern and pay them $8,000 for a pinball machine that they have had 30 years of experiencing building similar ones, but with different art and sound work.
What an idiot I am to expect it to work out of the box.
It's "My Fault" I expect a working and properly tested product out of the box.
How dumb I was to expect my NIB MET to work back in December- TWO YEARS after the first one rolled off the line- but no, it was dead for 3 weeks after I pulled it out of the box.
But go ahead, accumulate those up votes by once again pointing the finger at the CUSTOMER who buys products from Stern and keeps them in business.

If it upsets you so much, why are you still doing it? Maybe Stern need to up the ante on QC, but no one is making you buy an NIB GBLE without any knowledge at all of how it plays or what issues it may have. You said yourself you had issues with your NIB Met. So why are you still buying NIB. And even worse, first run LE NIB?

Wait 2 years for someone to sell their already dialed in GBLE.

13
#272 2 years ago

I thought this was a GB issues thread, not a Stern issues thread?

#273 2 years ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

I thought this was a GB issues thread, not a Stern issues thread?

Stern designs, manufacturers, and is trusted to properly test and fix issues with GB prior to shipping GB.

So yes, Stern issues most definitely = GB issues.

#274 2 years ago

Been playing my pro for a couple days now, had a party, put a few plays on her.
The wire by the captive ball is starting to get bent in, but I don't see it bending much more because the wire is only so long.
The ball can still move freely, and looking at it I see an easy fix if it gets too tight. There is a similar wire on the opposite side of the ball, I will just bend that one the same way. Leaving room for the CB to work as designed.
Over time, that (right side) guide might bend that way on its own and fix the problem itself.
Either way, it seems like not much of an issue to me, gonna take it to location today. (Cuckoos Nest, Lakewood, CO)
I certainly don't see Stern shutting down production for it, nor do I think they should.

-1
#275 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Sometimes it takes a broken record to get things fixed.

Actions speak louder than words.. put your money where your mouth is. Else you're just whining.

-2
#276 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Actions speak louder than words.. put your money where your mouth is. Else you're just whining.

So, spending $15,000 on brand new machines with Stern in a few months isn't "putting my money where my mouth is" ? I think ive paid enough to complain. What other actions would you like to see happen? The funny thing is you feel the urge to always comment and reply to me, yet, you have no skin in the game and havent put YOUR money where your mouth is by purchasing a GB. Why are you even in this thread anyway?

#277 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Guess my point is that instead of making excuses on Stern's behalf and being ok with mediocre testing and build quality, we should raise our voices and have some backbone and maybe they'll revise their production line build and testing procedures, and improve their products as a whole. Now, wouldn't that be nice? Why not encourage them to improve, and not make excuses on their behalf like 90% of the people here do?

As they say in Game of Thrones, "Words are wind."

The best way to encourage them to improve is to not buy their product until it meets your level of quality. Otherwise, you are actually encouraging them to continue their business practices. If you want Stern and the pinside community to take your complaints seriously, show some of that "backbone" you advise to others, cancel your LE order and tell Stern why you're doing it. It starts with you!

-15
#278 2 years ago

KPG makes a great point and as a brand new pin purchaser I also find it very disappointing a company who has been making pinball machines for so long seems to have so many out of box problems . I read the same people who are critical of his complaints do not seem to be NIB purchasers and probably have affiliatiosn with stern

#279 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

So, spending $15,000 on brand new machines with Stern in a few months isn't "putting my money where my mouth is" ?

It is...but you've put it on the wrong side.

11
#280 2 years ago

Is this the point in the thread where VID comes in and tells us how much worse the Bally / Williams games were in the 90's out of box? I think all of these Chicken Little "the sky is falling" posts are pretty crazy now. Stern will address and fix issues that come up. They stand behind what they make. It's pinball! Just relax....

#281 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Stern will address and fix issues that come up. They stand behind what they make. It's pinball! Just relax....

I can definitely say that about Stern, which is why I wont take the advice of "Jvspin" above and cancel my LE order. I'm already paid in full, and want the machine. I feel great about financially supporting Stern (and pinball as a hobby) and buying this machine that I have wanted for almost a year. Giving advice to not buy products from Stern if you are unhappy is not the right advice to go about it - I do not even tell people or attempt to sway from a purchase.. that's the wrong way to go about things, by trying to punish a company and not buy product from them - or essentially boycotting them. No point, and that is not my intentions.

When my issues with MET came up, I have to say that Chaz at Stern pulled through on the support hotline, and they did ship me the parts and I got it up and running. Sure, I had to spend 2-3 hours of my time soldering and doing repairs on a brand new machine, but I have to say that the customer support experience was excellent. This is why I am fine with still buying the machine. My criticism is on the build quality and testing procedures. Where they lack in pre-shipping testing, they make up in customer service. I will state I would have definitely not purchased another machine had their customer service not been up to par, and my experience with Chaz and the service department gave me the confidence to buy another NIB from Stern.

#282 2 years ago

My power supply fan is always on. Is this normal? It's like on a medium speed at all times.

I have a GOT Premium, the fan turns on and off.

-1
#283 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Giving advice to not buy products from Stern if you are unhappy is not the right advice to go about it - I do not even tell people or attempt to sway from a purchase.. that's the wrong way to go about things,

But coming on a pinball forum full of Stern customers and crititicising Stern is the right way?

15
#284 2 years ago

I count two posts on this page alone that are actually on topic. Can we keep this to actual issues with people's games so that current owners and potential future owners have somewhere to reference fixes for any issues they might have?

12
#285 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I count two posts on this page alone that are actually on topic. Can we keep this to actual issues with people's games so that current owners and potential future owners have somewhere to reference fixes for any issues they might have?

Mental "issues" don't count?

#286 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Mental "issues" don't count?

So, now we are going down the road of personal and inflammatory attacks? Got it. Guess that's how you get upvotes and "atta boys" from your online friends here on Pinside and win the popularity contest.

#287 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I count two posts on this page alone that are actually on topic. Can we keep this to actual issues with people's games so that current owners and potential future owners have somewhere to reference fixes for any issues they might have?

Calling to stay on topic, yet looking at all off-topic posts you have consistently up-voted them. So which is it.. do you want to get on topic, or continue to support the off-topic posts?

#288 2 years ago

Wow, this thread now looks pretty bare with all the "ignored user post" posts!

#289 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

So, now we are going down the road of personal and inflammatory attacks? Got it. Guess that's how you get upvotes and "atta boys" from your online friends here on Pinside and win the popularity contest.

I actually don't think that was pointed at you...everyone on Pinside has mental issues and we talk aboot it regularly.

#290 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

I actually don't think that was pointed at you...everyone on Pinside has mental issues and we talk aboot it regularly.

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#291 2 years ago

HA! Well there's mental, and then there's Kenada.

#292 2 years ago

I was just reading about the orbit issue in GOT premium/le and apparently Stern "fixed" it by just removing that part of the game from the software. Is this what we can expect from Stern's hardware fixes going forward?

#293 2 years ago
Quoted from seenev:

I was just reading about the orbit issue in GOT premium/le and apparently Stern "fixed" it by just removing that part of the game from the software. Is this what we can expect from Stern's hardware fixes going forward?

Sort of stating the obvious but there's no way of knowing what to expect because every issue is different.

#294 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Giving advice to not buy products from Stern if you are unhappy is not the right advice to go about it - I do not even tell people or attempt to sway from a purchase.. that's the wrong way to go about things, by trying to punish a company and not buy product from them - or essentially boycotting them. No point, and that is not my intentions.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. Though I wasn't suggesting to boycott all Stern products, just wait until the game gets to a level that meets your standards before buying, whether it be code, hardware or whatever.

I don't see Stern making changes in the way they test and QA their LE's (if it impacts their profit margins) when people are currently lining up to buy them. Especially when even the people who are complaining are still buying.

Why should they?

This next statement is going to be unpopular, but why shouldn't they do even less and further increase their profit margins until they actually see an adverse affect on their sales?

#295 2 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

but why shouldn't they do even less and further increase their profit margins until they actually see an adverse affect on their sales?

Who's side on you on here? This statement is completely anti-consumer and makes me question your motives here. I am glad I do not run my business with this mentality, or I wouldn't be in business and make a good enough living to afford to pay Stern for pinball machines in the first place. I have found quality service with exceptional product offerings is what keeps me successful and in business, not the lowest accepted quality products and service possible to maximize my profits.

#296 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Who's side on you on here?

Side of reality. If people would choose to hold Stern to a higher standard, it might get done. You're upset aboot this now, after posting for the last 4 months nothing but great things aboot GB in every way. Well, what are you going to do now? Show Gary you won't be pushed around like this and make a stand of not buying until the issues are fixed?

Exactly.

EDITL I was just guessing on the 4 month thing...no idea really.

#297 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

If people would choose to hold Stern to a higher standard, it might get done.

Amazing concept!

#298 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Amazing concept!

I agree...Sorry can we get an update...did you talk to Stern or cancel your LE order?
In reality there's no need to change anything anymore. Stern is settling in for a decade of fan boy themes that people will just throw monies at.

13
#299 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

So, spending $15,000 on brand new machines with Stern in a few months isn't "putting my money where my mouth is" ? I think ive paid enough to complain. What other actions would you like to see happen? The funny thing is you feel the urge to always comment and reply to me, yet, you have no skin in the game and havent put YOUR money where your mouth is by purchasing a GB. Why are you even in this thread anyway?

You've got it all backwards. Buying shit you are not happy with helps who exactly?? Certainly doesn't motivate the company to change when 500 people blindly throw 8000k at them no questions asked.

You have this mentality that because you've thrown your money in the ring, you are entitled to a seat at the table while others are not. You're nothing special for buying a game, but you've enabled Stern to continue to do as they please by buying before they've proven their product.

Why am I here? Because it's a hobby - one I've been a part of for 24+ years.. it's not just about a single title.

#300 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

I have found quality service with exceptional product offerings is what keeps me successful and in business, not the lowest accepted quality products and service possible to maximize my profits.

I think most businesses want to maximize their profits, but there is a balance between profit versus quality of the product, service, etc..

Not enough profit and the business doesn't survive. Too crappy a product or service and the business doesn't survive. There's a huge grey area between those two extremes.

If you offer a product and in a couple of days everything sells out and people start offering your product on the secondary market at a substantial price increase, wouldn't you think maybe you're not charging enough? Or maybe you didn't need to put as much into it?

Keep in mind, the product sells out even though you have a reputation for releasing a product with unfinished code and hardware that may not have all the kinks completely worked.

Edit: Removed "Reality" answer to KPG's question since TheLaw already provided it.

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