Stern quality control and testing department is like

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EDIT: thanks for the downvotes. Absolutely zero sense of humor around here.. must be real fun people to hang with!

Here's an example of the flipper problem. I wouldn't bypass your EOS switch, as suggested here, unless you want a blown transistor.

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I guess rewriting the flipper power or game state logic was a bust

I have an issue with my flippers, its more noticeable on the left flipper when i hold it up from the ball coming down quickly from the orbit, and sometimes i get it on my right flipper when it fires the ball out of the scoop. basically when it gets hit at high enough speed and ive held it, the flipper flips very slightly and springboards the ball back up the playfield.

Here is a short video of what is happening on my GB Pro.

Ive had my distributor/tech guy come take a look yesterday and he didnt immediately see any issues with the EOS. He was in talks with Stern about this since he looked at mine and mentioned a software update stern was working on, version 1.03 (if i recall correctly), but hes tied up for the weekend at an expo and I probably wont get any answers until next week. Has anybody else experienced anything like this?

Very common on 80's Bally's. The hold power isn't strong enough to keep the flipper up against a fast ball so it dips until the EOS switch closes, at which point the high power turns on and the flipper goes back up.

What was the resolution to that problem? I hope they fix the Slimer registering issues, drop target rejects, and flipper problems that many people are experiencing before shipping any LE's out.

Thanks for the info. Good stuff.

Word.

Im not entirely sure what i am experiencing is a software issue, though its possible the code controls the hold power at a certain level for so many seconds or half seconds or whatever and then reduces it, since if you were actually just cradling a ball, you would need little power for that. I will experiment a bit tonight, since my nature of playing is if i know a ball is coming around the orbit, i typically have my flipper ready and held for when it comes. Its possible i am holding for too long and the hold power has been reduced at the point the ball makes contact with it. When i'm simply batting the ball around and in heavy play/multi ball, i dont really notice any flipper issues, since ive got the flippers going constantly.

I don't know that I was able to get rid of it completely, but adjusting the EOS gap so that it just opens when the flipper is at the very top helps a lot, as the flipper doesn't have to drop much before the high power kicks in. Maybe others have a better solution. Again, this was for the older Bally's, I expect they will be able to fix GB in software..

Got my GB set up yesterday. I decided to take it home before putting it on route so that I could tweak and fix any issues.
Aside from Slimer not registering, there was also an issue with the ball plunger. It seemed as though the shooter rod was sitting a little too high up, and would hit the top of the ball (giving it a gnarly spin). Anytime you full plunge, it would rattle around near the spinner and give a terrible feed out of the left orbit, often times sending the ball down the middle. The auto plunger would work just fine. I loosened the shooter rod assembly and moved it down, centering the tip on the ball. After testing it like that, I found that many times if I full plunged, the ball would fire off the ball guide at the back and smack the backboard. If I plunged a little softer, it would come around and give an excellent feed. So I replaced the orange spring on the shooter rod with a green one. Problem solved, the feed out of the left orbit is perfect every time now.

Awesome, thank you. Local player reported this to me earlier today on a place I go to frequently and have access to their games, so now I know how to tell them to fix every issue he found thanks to this thread!

I understand there will be adjustments needed when coming out of the box, I am just hoping it wont be down for 2-3 weeks like my NIB MET was. That sucked. Glad to hear some of these fixes are pretty simple, I am just surprised how many of the same issues exist for multiple people. Hopefully the premium/LE's mechanics, toys, etc are assembled and tested fully before leaving the factory, and nothing serious will need to be addressed. It was a huge bummer unboxing and setting up MET, just to have to leave it turned off for weeks awaiting parts for it. It's been great since, and thankfully Stern's tech support and warranty came through.

Awesome for you guys to keep reporting these.

Helps all of us waiting on games. Stern listens!

Appreciate those who are playing, testing and reporting.

this is exactly right. In this hobby there is no such thing as perfection. That's why it's important you guys learn how to tweak and fix your own shit. Stuff gets banged around a bunch in shipping. They can't test every game for hours on end. They hit slimer a couple of times. he registers, they move on. It's the way it works. Otherwise they will be shipping games as fast as JJP.

Or space to put it in.....

We observed a similar issue on the local machine yesterday, and had chalked it up to the top metal piece being bent down too far. I'll look at it again next time to see if it's the left wireform instead.

So, can you explain how bent wire forms happen during shipping and what is "banging" against it while it's in the box?

How about the flipper hold power problem?

The drop targets needing adjustment out of the box?

How about my bad sparky magnet, broken/snapped off VUK switch for the snake, along with a bad jaw mechanism that wouldn't go down 5/10 times on my NIB MET?

Those things should be caught at the factory, and not just chalked up as things that happen in shipping, sorry. There are way too many reports of the same problems with GB, and when they all share a similar story, you can't just pass blame onto the shippers.

I'm not expecting perfection, just better quality testing/inspections prior to shipping out multi-thousand dollar commercial toys. The more people make excuses on Stern's behalf, the less inclined they are to make positive changes in the factory.

Oh,boy,i hope they fix this stuff before they ship the Pre out!!I'm not a tech guy,and some of this stuff is over my head!But,when i got my new ST pre,i didn't have any of those issues others had with theirs,so,maybe!!! And by the by,why bash Kaneda??Thats rude,imho!peace!

Why does stern ship pins to the rest of the world, then take care of the US? Shouldn't that be the other way around? I'm still waiting on my 2 pros.

Flipper issue is real.

The NYC ghostbusters has had every part of the flipper replaced and it's still a problem.

They are promising a code update today - which is crucial as the ifpa launch tournament is tomorrow. Gonna be lots of people there and only one chance to make a first impression with them.

Is this the one at Pioneers? So is the game working today if I stop in today? I tried last week but it was turned off.

I think it's in the minority, really. They have shipped a lot of Pro's. I have none of the issues described except the flipper hold, which is obviously a software bug.

The drops get better as time progresses. If you are impatient, shorten the spring. Literally a 5 second fix.

Are you talking the hold power being on after ball drain or tilt? Or the EOS issue?

It would be sweet if a software update came out today to fix the issue. My launch tournament is on Friday and it would be nice if fixed.

On slimer, I used a small black tie wrap here to pull the cable to the center.

It works 100% since doing it.

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I got my Ghostbusters yesterday and had similar issues with the flippers. The right flipper was causing some frustration.

Check the EOS switch.
A local op has opened two GB to go on location and both had bad adjusted right EoS switches.

(to follow)

Following!

The software will cut power to the coil even if the eos is bypassed. Unless things have changed for spike, the transistor will not blow...

Following thanks for making the thread

My distributor said they've noticed similar hold problems on a couple of their games they've been showing at the Calgary Expo this weekend.. definitely sounds like software now.

I know I get downvoted any time I'm critical of Stern's QC process, but how is it possible to defend the fact that they shipped these games with so many flipper issues? If it is software based, who gave the approval to ship the game with an obvious defect right out of the gate? Is that not something to criticize here, for games that cost this much brand new? I mean, either they knew this was a problem and didn't mention this and shipped anyway, assuming people can update later, or they just didn't test the game enough to know of the problem. Either way, not good.

I agree. Stern is clearly duping us, the consumer.
We need to find another hobby and stay away from pinball.
You go first. I'm right behind you, promise!

Seriously, it's your approach that's getting you the downvotes. Others are pointing out issues and how to fix them, working together. You seem to be of the mindset that throwing stones will get things done.
Your call, but it's f'n annoying to read your constant moaning.
Pinball is about having fun. If you can't see it from that angle, you're either in the wrong place, or may wish to change your mind frame.

All that being said, it has been seen time after time that waiting a little while for some of these bugs to be worked out is not a bad option if, like me, you'd prefer not to have to tackle these issues yourself.

+1000

So many sensitive people on here, it's crazy.

So funny how hypocritical you are. You are calling me out for being opinionated about Stern's technical issues, but you have no problem being critical and moaning about JJP about the Hobbit here on this post.

Pot calling the kettle black, perhaps?

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Pinball is the only hobby I know of where people would shell out this kind of cash for something, and then be totally cool with their product having issues that should have been caught before leaving the factory.

And if god forbid someone calls these problems out they must be criticised and put down.

since your new. You havn't seen every manufacturer, for every decade had problems out of the box. EVERYONE. when you have items with 100's of moving parts and complex circuitry, things will get overlooked. B/W had plenty of problems with new games right out of the box. Gottlieb had grounding issues for a decade, DE, Sega, JJP...EVERYONE has it.

Cars have been made longer than pinball machines. You would think they have their shit together. But how many factory recalls happen? quite a few and they make a hell of a lot more per model, than pinball does.

I dont find an issue with sharing as a community, issues a new game may have.
It helps Stern, it helps all of us.

What I find hard is the process of sharing these issues with the expectation, low ticket or high ticket items
must be nothing less than perfect.

In a consumption based society, where in general people buy, as opposed to themselves working in a factory and making,
we have a very high standard of expectation. Not unreasonable to have, just maybe better to know it doesnt always work this way.
Iphones, auto recalls, planes for the military...all much higher volume, higher ticket items, with massive funding, and yet, flaws in production.

It comes down to people, and people inspect, do they blink, sneeze, get distracted, and miss something?
Sure? Id love to hear a solution for this, other then Robotic camera inspection.

Every product Ive made, imported, or direct manufactured has a human element.
Every consumer wants Perfect, and complains if it isnt.
Every complaint is magnified against all those that were reasonably perfect.
Very Very hard to find perfect people to do perfect jobs, regardless of pay.

So perhaps constructive complaints that help everyone is better, than just complaints that perfection isnt achieved for
the money spent.

It will always happen, and input helping solve should be a Positive testament to the Pinside community.

I don't know anyone who buys a brand new car, finds out there is something wrong with it, and goes "Oh well! Shit happens!" Nor do I know of any cars that get recalled because some main feature, easily noticed by everyone who drives it, is fucked up. Slimer is right smack-dab in the middle of the playfield. How many cars do you know that were recalled because "Oh, hey, guys, sorry... we forgot to install the rear-view mirror"

Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, some of them actually, *gasp* work as designed?

Or do you take the 5 complaints on Pinside about it and extrapolate that to 100% are non-functioning?

And from everything I've heard, they worked, but just not 100%.

it would be more like. your fan for your heat and A/C goes in and out. WHich has happened in new cars.

If you forgot to install a mirror, would be like if slimer was completely missing. Then that's a major fuckup. that's a different story. but if your defrost on your mirror doesn't work. Only the cold states would ever notice and when it's winter time.

stuff is going to happen when you pump out titles as fast as Stern does...if you don't want to fix any "factory" issues just wait for the next "must have" stern that everyone clamors for and buy the previous "must have" used when the market dump occurs (with all the problems fixed by original buyer).

Right or wrong you have to expect issues with buying pinball of any kind no matter the cost. That goes double for being one of the first owners of a new pin. I find it odd that there are flipper issues. I would think Stern would have those kind of things bullet proof by now.

Yeah, but I did it with one post, not six on every page of a thread.
: )

Keep posting "shotgun style" if you want. I was pointing out the reason why you're getting all the down votes.
Not sure that anybody enjoys reading through a thread, seeing comments from the same guy, over and over and over, repeating the same thing is all. (and for that reason, I'm done on this topic)

For what it's worth, I'm practically obsessive with having my games work 100% the way they were designed, without technical issues. I find them hard enough as-is. I get annoyed buying a NIB game and then finding out it doesn't work as it should. (Avengers was a nightmare!) Still, you can make it work, or whine about it and throw stones. With the 10 or so NIB machines I've purchased in the past few years, I've had very few problems that weren't resolved easily, and when they turned out to be big issues, I had excellent support from Stern, JJP, and Highway in resolving those issues. -so you won't find me bitching about any of those manufacturers on a serious level.
Of the 5 or so pinball buddies that I have, I can't think of anyone who is complaining about any serious issues on any of their Stern games, and I'm guessing that's nearly 20-25 different pins purchased in the past few years? So the defect rate isn't too bad in my neighbourhood.