(Topic ID: 325829)

Getting Started - Mechs

By matty-j

1 year ago


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  • 22 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by TreyBo69
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    #1 1 year ago

    Hey guys!

    I am planning on kicking off my dream of building a homebrew in the new year and have started doing some research into what mechs I'll be needing to purchase at some point. I've decided on FAST Pinball for the controller system - it looks awesome, and have been following thepinballroom (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx8P46g5EkVZ_h3oFdfVfVA/videos) who inspired me to check them out in the first place.

    So I'm still in the midst of planning out my table but am now looking at some initial purchases for the lower third. I'm wondering where should I start? From what I can tell pinball parts are really replacement parts for existing machines (makes sense) so if I was say looking for a flipper assembly for a Stern, classic Bally etc? My initial thoughts are a modern flipper mech for example:

    https://www.pinballlife.com/full-right-flipper-assembly-for-modern-stern-machines-from-012001-to-present.html

    Then I have the choice of coil. Where would I start with that? I ended up here (https://www.pinballmedic.net/coilchart.html) from the PinballMakers site - which is awesome by the way - but getting a bit lost in it all.

    At the end of the day, maybe it doesnt really matter what you put in the machine, and so going for the cheapest option makes sense, I'm not really sure.

    Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

    #2 1 year ago

    I started this thread 7 years ago, so before your time, and it hasn't been posted to in a little bit, but I suggest reading it if you want to make a game, because it's full of good advice:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lets-figure-out-the-bare-minimum-costparts-to-build-a-whitewood

    #3 1 year ago

    Also, was going through that old thread of mine, and just want to point out that it features the very first build of what would become Iron Maiden years later. You never know where a project is going to take you ...

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lets-figure-out-the-bare-minimum-costparts-to-build-a-whitewood#post-2119062

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    #4 1 year ago

    I think what is often used for flipper mechs in homebrew machines are the assemblies used in bally/williams games from 1992 to 1998:
    https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-williamsbally-machines-from-021992-to-101998.html
    These have dual wound coils which in my opinion are easier to work with than stern's single wound coil. Not to say you couldn't use the more modern mechs, but these assemblies will serve you just as well.
    As far as flipper coils, if you are using the bally/williams assemblies, FL-11629 or FL-11630 should be fine to start out with (I have used the FL-11629 in the past).

    #5 1 year ago

    Always nice to see more builders.

    Read more before deciding posts

    Quoted from snowy_owl:

    I think what is often used for flipper mechs in homebrew machines are the assemblies used in bally/williams games from 1992 to 1998:
    https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-williamsbally-machines-from-021992-to-101998.html
    These have dual wound coils which in my opinion are easier to work with than stern's single wound coil. Not to say you couldn't use the more modern mechs, but these assemblies will serve you just as well.
    As far as flipper coils, if you are using the bally/williams assemblies, FL-11629 or FL-11630 should be fine to start out with (I have used the FL-11629 in the past).

    What is it that makes dual wound easier? I use single wound with no issues, not so far at least, using MPF. I probably missed something important. Cheers.

    My tips is to read, read and read. FAST, MPF and pinball makers all have good information.
    Also do some lists what you need and try and save on shipping, it quickly ends up with lots of small orders if not, at least that's my experience.

    Start with some coding early on so you are familiar with mpf or whatever you use, it could be a wall that will be easier to climb with that extra experience. I don't know how many times some time for reflection made it easier, if I would rush it I would probably already abandoned my projects.

    And last, just do it!!

    #6 1 year ago

    I highly recommend you look at some game manuals (IPDB.org) and sorta copy what they were doing in terms of coil selection for their voltage selection.

    If you mostly shop at Pinball Life for new mechs, a lot of them come with a coil suitable for a 48V system. (and when you wire everything up, you can fine tune that power/activation-time)

    If you are going to get a donor playfield or scour eBay and similar for old mechs, then you need to pay attention to what the coils were intended to be powered by.

    I used a donor game for my first project. It really helped speed up the less fun parts of the build (like making a cabinet) and it was loaded with extra stuff to reuse and modify.

    #7 1 year ago

    You picked a great hobby! However, you decided to jump into the deep end first without learning to swim. Not a criticism just an observation. I was new to this hobby last year. I did have experience in electronics, soldering, wiring and mechanical things that were car related. I bought a well-used 1992 Bally pinball that worked but was in need of repairs and replacements. I tackled one system at a time, learning and writing myself notes along the way. I kept a notebook that also contained drawings of how things were connected. i discovered there was wiring color coding system much like the how resistors are coded with colors. Then I discovered in the manual about the switch and lamp matrixes. To maximize the use of wires, certain parts are daisy chained with a power wire and then individually connected to a controlled ground on a board. Or at least that is how I learned it. If you learn the sub-systems one part at a time it is easier to digest. Flippers/Coils/wires going to Flipper button board and then to a flipper board which gets its voltage from a power board that is fed by a transformer is an example. For me it was easier to learn from an already built machine, rather than a book or website. Hope that helps.

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    #8 1 year ago

    Thankfully with modern pinball controllers you don't have to do a matrix if you don't want to. The only reason to do them was to maximize limited inputs on older controllers and to reduce wiring costs (at the cost of complexity)

    #9 1 year ago

    My suggestion is to talk to Aaron and the crew at FAST, buy the minimum to get flipping from them, and then join their community. Folks are very helpful with many games built and can walk you through the whole process.

    I started with buying WAY too much up front, some of which was never useful.

    Order from FAST, get flipping and build slowly from there. If you're itching to buy, just get 2 Stern flipper assemblies and some 2 Stern sling assemblies and call it good.

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gillen:

    What is it that makes dual wound easier? I use single wound with no issues, not so far at least, using MPF. I probably missed something important. Cheers.

    Maybe "easier" was not a good word choice, I have personally found dual wound mechs to be pretty diverse in terms of how to wire them, and they have always worked well for me.
    It's really not that big of a difference, but with dual wound you don't have to worry about the hold PWM, and you don't have to worry about getting that annoying flipper buzzing. Like I said, either one would work fine.
    In the end it's up to personal opinion.

    #11 1 year ago

    I also think dual wound are a bit easier. It's not that single is necessarily hard, but it does need a little more tuning to dial in the performance (which isnt a long process either - and at some point you'll need to dial in all of your coils power to feel "right"). What's the benefit to single wound? It uses one less driver transistor, and....? You can do dual wound with a single output transistor if you use an EOS switch. It's how I did my first retheme project.

    The fact that few companies do single wound flipper coils, besides Stern, I think is more evidence that they're generally easier to deal with.

    But feel free to do either. It's not that big of a deal, especially in a one-off personal project where you can always tweak the hardware and software when you're not satisfied.

    #12 1 year ago

    I'd start off by looking for a cheap machine, otherwise you are building cabinets, finding power supplies, all from scratch
    Most second hand machines will have flippers, ball trough, slingshots and bumpers

    #13 1 year ago

    Thank-you everyone for the words of encouragement (and warning haha)!

    Quoted from Aurich:

    Also, was going through that old thread of mine, and just want to point out that it features the very first build of what would become Iron Maiden years later. You never know where a project is going to take you ...
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lets-figure-out-the-bare-minimum-costparts-to-build-a-whitewood#post-2119062
    [quoted image]

    Thanks for sharing that. I didnt come accross that one - but have read through it and some great comments in there. What I am quickly discovering is that there is no one path to get to the end goal of having a fully fledged home brew. My pre-existing skill set is more on the programming and design front, with a bit of woodworking and electronics from other DIY projects I have worked on (3D Printing and CnC) so I need to consider what "my way" will be and the journey I'll take. Based on your link I feel like I am similarly inclined to kick off with a physical machine whitewood rather than get a complete design done and dusted on the computer. This will result in more redoing of things no doubt, but I feel like I would enjoy the process more.

    Thanks for the share!

    Quoted from snowy_owl:

    I think what is often used for flipper mechs in homebrew machines are the assemblies used in bally/williams games from 1992 to 1998... As far as flipper coils, if you are using the bally/williams assemblies, FL-11629 or FL-11630 should be fine to start out with (I have used the FL-11629 in the past).

    A great starting point - and cheaper which is always nice. Will do some looky looky at some manuals also as another user has suggested and see what I can dig up!

    Quoted from BrewinBombers:

    My suggestion is to talk to Aaron and the crew at FAST, buy the minimum to get flipping from them, and then join their community. Folks are very helpful with many games built and can walk you through the whole process.

    This is totally what I am planning on doing! Have seen Aaron on a bunch of YouTube interviews now and he seems like a great guy!

    They have their new Neuron board coming out early 2023 so at that point I'll be picking up their starter kit with the power supply which should get me up and running. I believe the Discord is only for customers, so I'll need to wait until then - but totally agree with your thoughts here.

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    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tophervette:

    You picked a great hobby! However, you decided to jump into the deep end first without learning to swim. Not a criticism just an observation. I was new to this hobby last year. I did have experience in electronics, soldering, wiring and mechanical things that were car related. I bought a well-used 1992 Bally pinball that worked but was in need of repairs and replacements..... Hope that helps.[quoted image]

    Yeah man - thats great. Fixing up an old clunker would be super useful for learning and getting some parts too! With the price of pinballs however (even bashed up ones) I am still on the lookout for a good project pin that is not completely-completely gone. Will keep a lookout however on local classifieds/Facebook etc to pounce if anything shows up.

    Thanks for the experience share.

    #15 1 year ago

    i recently got a hard used Taxi playfield with parts on it for cheap. That is the best thing that can happen . You learn so much when you take a look at a used playfield.
    And all of the parts you can use, the posts, screws, assemblies, guides.
    for my first homebrew i bought everything new that i needed. that ended up to be my most expensive build, and i didn't have a clue on how this and that is normally done...

    Still just for the start you don't need much. Piece of wood, Flipper assemblies, electronics, Laptop. Get flippin' and it's fun already.

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from stefanmader:

    i recently got a hard used Taxi playfield with parts on it for cheap. That is the best thing that can happen . You learn so much when you take a look at a used playfield.
    And all of the parts you can use, the posts, screws, assemblies, guides.
    for my first homebrew i bought everything new that i needed. that ended up to be my most expensive build, and i didn't have a clue on how this and that is normally done...
    Still just for the start you don't need much. Piece of wood, Flipper assemblies, electronics, Laptop. Get flippin' and it's fun already.

    Cool yeah man, thats great. What would be considered cheap? Like 3-4k? Maybe I am being too cheap when looking at a smashed up second hand.

    #17 1 year ago

    You can find fully/partially populated playfields for less than 1k if you're lucky. I am always on the lookout for things like that, they are a great source of parts and sometimes inspiration(i.e. you find a cool mech and think of a cool way to integrate it), and are also typically cheaper than if you bought the equivalent parts new.

    #18 1 year ago

    Just check regularly. Found this one just by quickly searching "populated" in the pinside classified ads.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/144128

    #19 1 year ago

    Do they have pinball shows with used parts for sale in your area (the other side of the world)? I have been to several here on the east coast of USA and there are many parts machines and populated PFs at these shows. I am almost done building a Bally 1992 pinball and had to buy several lots of parts. Which means that I have lots of leftovers and mech duplicate parts. So, I assume someone in your area would have the same that you could purchase for cheap. I have bought several parts from a great pinball company in Melbourne, Australia, as they were the only place that had the rare part I needed. https://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/

    #20 1 year ago

    I think it was 450 euros for the taxi playfield with parts and a cyclone playfield with parts. That of course was very lucky

    #21 1 year ago

    Ooh ok that gives me a good idea of what to keep an eye out for. Getting a playfield would be super cool to kick things off at that price for sure.

    I’ll do some research locally (Australia) and see what I can find. Thanks!

    #22 1 year ago

    Getting a cheap cabinet is also really worth finding if possible. As long as it isn’t rotted, a beat up used cabinet is far cheaper than building one

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