(Topic ID: 184598)

Getaway PIN2DMD - No*fun*ding Interest?


By Mr_Tantrum

2 years ago



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  • 32 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by russdx
  • Topic is favorited by 17 Pinsiders

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-1
#51 2 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

However, you've chosen to include a direct implementation of the patent which creates problems.

How could I simply do that when no detailed information how you do it is public ? By the information from your patent I didn´t even know baout when I was starting ? I even don´t understand what your IP should be reading it today. I only roughly understand the interpretation you give here, but that is nothing more than a interpretation. Fact is that the colorization code in PIN2DMD is 100% based on our own ideas and code!

Quoted from Dmod:

It's interesting to note that during the last two years, Joerg, Stefan, and Dom, have collectively worked to develop knock-offs of the PinDMD, Run-DMD clock, ColorDMD, and now Pinsound projects.

Nice way to twist the truth. PinDMD and Run-DMD were both in monochrome. We just had the idea to take them to the next level.
PINDMD3 like your Sigma solution was released long after we published information about pin2dmd. How could anything be patented
which did not even exist ?

And if to make them in color is a knockoff then you created colorDMD as knockoff for regular pinball displays ??!!
Do they threaten you with their patents ?

Quoted from Dmod:

Please support the innovators working to push the boundaries of the hobby!

... and just let others do their thing instead of trying to stop them by threatening them with US patents.

Thank good I live in Europe where such patents wouldn´t even make it to the court.

#52 2 years ago
Quoted from lucky1:

Thank good I live in Europe where such patents wouldn´t even make it to the court.

And yet you author and financially benefit from a Pin2DMD display sold and used in the United States.

As for the rest, you willfully continued the development and sale of the Pin2DMD with full knowledge of the US patent, even after requests to specifically exclude the ColorDMD implementation before release.

The members of Pin2DMD's copying of other's IP is nothing new. It's well documented on multiple forums and continues today in the current attempt to knock-off Pinsound.

#53 2 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

And yet you author and financially benefit from a Pin2DMD display sold and used in the United States.

Steve and I don´t financially benefit from any pin2dmd used anywhere in the world and the dealers selling the hardware don´t forward a single penny to us. We forward the money we collect 100% to charity projects we support like a orphans home or children with cancer. If you don´t believe look at the bank transfers we posted on other forums.
You might not believe it but money is not the only motivation that exists in this world.

Quoted from Dmod:

As for the rest, you willfully continued the development and sale of the Pin2DMD with full knowledge of the US patent, even after requests to specifically exclude the ColorDMD implementation before release.

?? Colorization was already implemented when you first contacted me which was on 4th of november 2015
Look at the video from 14th of octobre here

About the PiSound project. It was started as a open source project from smyp and yes Steve is currently contributing to it like he is on several other projects just for the fun of it and without any financial interest. With the pin2dmd experience, he also asked smyp to make the code non public because of the money minded free riders in the pinball community. But why should there be no DIY project to replace the DE soundboard for a better sound quality ?

#54 2 years ago

Guys, please take the conversation to another thread as it is not my intent to carry out such a discussion here. I needed to let those who where joining or considering joining the project know what they were getting into and offer them a way out, that is all.

#55 2 years ago

Im in for 15 on the results.

#56 2 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

And yet you author and financially benefit from a Pin2DMD display sold and used in the United States.
As for the rest, you willfully continued the development and sale of the Pin2DMD with full knowledge of the US patent, even after requests to specifically exclude the ColorDMD implementation before release.
The members of Pin2DMD's copying of other's IP is nothing new. It's well documented on multiple forums and continues today in the current attempt to knock-off Pinsound.

Dmod Can you please cite the US patent Number(s) that you are referring to?

#57 2 years ago

I believe we have hit the desired goal to fund the cost of the PIN2DMD hardware. I will verify when I get home tonight, and if so I will close the opportunity. If you still have interest, please PM me before 8:00PM Central in order to be included.

#58 2 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

fyi ... ColorDMD is approved to utilize the WMS frames (which are copyrighted) and colorized them, so that was something we had done with them a long time ago ... there are certainly no issues with original designs to overlay existing games (which we like), as well as personal creations. It's the distribution of the wms frames that we have to be concerned as WMS has been involved in this topic for colordmd and has made it very clear to us that this content is something that they (and we as their licensee) must not be distributed (free or otherwise) ... alway open to great ideas from the community, but that was the direction we had gotten when we did the agreement with the colordmd guys.

PPS (which is the licenseholder of Bally / Williams games) and I had a longer conversation and here is my conclusion of it.

- Pin2DMD is not infringing any copyright protected with either the pin2dmd firmware or the editor code !

- The hardware suppliers are not infringing any copyright by selling hardware which can be used for pin2dmd and go-dmd as long as is not preloaded with any colorizations!

- The pin2dmd user is not infringing any copyright as long as he makes colorizations for his personal/private use or does´t use copyrighted material for his colorization. PPS has absolutely no issues with people doing their own personalization for their games or creating 'new' things. If you follow this rule there should be no problem.

#59 2 years ago

Just to clarify, as it has been construed that I am selling my colorization in exchange for contributions, this is not the case. Everyone's contribution will be used exclusively for my cost of purchasing the required hardware for PIN2DMD. I will not be charging anything for my time to develop nor charging anything for the exchange of my colorization at any point. I will be sharing my progress and seeking input for my colorization from those who donate to my PIN2DMD hardware fund, and will be logging my progress and methodology for others to follow in order to create and implement their own version of colorization.

At this point, we have a handful of people who have helped me reach the $200 goal, so I am closing the group. I am a couple of weeks away from getting started, but thanks to everyone for consideration.

#60 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Just to clarify, as it has been construed that I am selling my colorization in exchange for contributions, this is not the case. Everyone's contribution will be used exclusively for my cost of purchasing the required hardware for PIN2DMD. I will not be charging anything for my time to develop nor charging anything for the exchange of my colorization at any point. I will be sharing my progress and seeking input for my colorization from those who donate to my PIN2DMD hardware fund, and will be logging my progress and methodology for others to follow in order to create and implement their own version of colorization.
At this point, we have a handful of people who have helped me reach the $200 goal, so I am closing the group. I am a couple of weeks away from getting started, but thanks to everyone for consideration.

I'm excited to see the process of colorizing so that it might inspire me to colorize one of my games some day, especially one like Pinball magic that probably won't see a colordmd release any time soon

#61 2 years ago

Very excited to hopefully see a 4 shade game colored on Pin2dmd. I built a few of these and i am learning the software now. It would be really cool to see something where we replaced certain graphics with something very different. I know you can draw or input videos to replace content so the possibilities are endless with Pin2dmd. I hope to see some cool creations soon. Good luck and please post progress. Thank you!

-Tom

#62 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Just to clarify, as it has been construed that I am selling my colorization in exchange for contributions, this is not the case. Everyone's contribution will be used exclusively for my cost of purchasing the required hardware for PIN2DMD. I will not be charging anything for my time to develop nor charging anything for the exchange of my colorization at any point. I will be sharing my progress and seeking input for my colorization from those who donate to my PIN2DMD hardware fund, and will be logging my progress and methodology for others to follow in order to create and implement their own version of colorization.
At this point, we have a handful of people who have helped me reach the $200 goal, so I am closing the group. I am a couple of weeks away from getting started, but thanks to everyone for consideration.

It does not matter if you are selling it or giving it away, if it's using any wms frames that is where the problem comes in as these are all copyright, that's all and that has been our guidance from WMS as well. If someone constructively reaches out to me we may be able to work something out, but without approval to distribute this in any way, it' becomes a problem ... sorry.

#63 2 years ago

To begin with you are not sorry, rather, you are intentional. You cannot be sorry for something you control, yet choose to exercise in a particular manner. Even stating such, you are clearly entitled to enforce whatever and however you please as it relates to ownership of your property, which is something I have never disputed.

Did it ever cross my mind that a group of Getaway owners working together to colorize their pins was in violation of some property rights? Quite honestly, I would have never conceived to even ask myself such a question. A bunch of hobbyist working together on a shared interests to improve their enjoyment of this machine even more seemed like a rather innocuous undertaking. As the saying goes, however, "ignorance is no excuse".

Did you not make yourself clear to me via PM, and after you outlined your restrictions and what was acceptable, was my response of "fair enough" not clear enough of an acknowledgment for you to know that I understand what your requirements are and what is permissible?

Again, when I completely recouched my project just a few posts above along with my intent to now use my experience by "logging my progress and methodology for others to follow in order to create and implement their own version of colorization", was I not clear enough that I would not be sharing my personal recolorization?

When you asked me to take down any files that you believed to be Getaway trademarked content from my download site for Getaway owners, did I not do so immediately and responded to you to please let me know if anything I left up was still in violation so that I can address that content also?

Well, I guess I know the answer to all of my questions based upon the lovely ultimatum I just received to submit or be attacked by lawyers, even though I thought I had already clearly addressed each of your two concerns. Therefore, please allow me to state as plainly as I know how, even though I thought I had already made it clear. Yes, I understand that I must remove all WMS/PPS licensed materials from my download site, and I have made an effort to do so. If you believe other content remaining still falls under your licensing, then by all means please detail which items those are so that I can address them. Secondly, do I understand that I may develop my own colorization but cannot distribute it? Again, the answer to that question is yes. Should that prevent me from sharing my experience with other Getaway owners, taking in there ideas for what I do, and then teaching them how to accomplish there own colorizations, I don't see how such an exercise in any way could be in violation of your copyrights and/or trademarks.

So, are we good now?

#64 2 years ago

Terrible.

-1
#65 2 years ago

Fellow getaway owner here. This is was just a fun project for Mr t. Its a hobby for him like it is for the most of us. Just let him do something cool for the community. The coloration offered by color dmd sucks. I have 3 color dmds.

#66 2 years ago

This all seems like a joke. Pin2dmd was originally developed for virtual pinball and there is a dedicated forum over on vpuniverse.com. That's where I will be posting any colorized files in the future. If any of what I read in this thread is realistic, one could assume virtual pinball must be violating tons of copyrights and trademarks so it seems pretty clear that nobody is doing anything about it.

#67 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

To begin with you are not sorry, rather, you are intentional. You cannot be sorry for something you control, yet choose to exercise in a particular manner. Even stating such, you are clearly entitled to enforce whatever and however you please as it relates to ownership of your property, which is something I have never disputed.
Did it ever cross my mind that a group of Getaway owners working together to colorize their pins was in violation of some property rights? Quite honestly, I would have never conceived to even ask myself such a question. A bunch of hobbyist working together on a shared interests to improve their enjoyment of this machine even more seemed like a rather innocuous undertaking. As the saying goes, however, "ignorance is no excuse".
Did you not make yourself clear to me via PM, and after you outlined your restrictions and what was acceptable, was my response of "fair enough" not clear enough of an acknowledgment for you to know that I understand what your requirements are and what is permissible?
Again, when I completely recouched my project just a few posts above along with my intent to now use my experience by "logging my progress and methodology for others to follow in order to create and implement their own version of colorization", was I not clear enough that I would not be sharing my personal recolorization?
When you asked me to take down any files that you believed to be Getaway trademarked content from my download site for Getaway owners, did I not do so immediately and responded to you to please let me know if anything I left up was still in violation so that I can address that content also?
Well, I guess I know the answer to all of my questions based upon the lovely ultimatum I just received to submit or be attacked by lawyers, even though I thought I had already clearly addressed each of your two concerns. Therefore, please allow me to state as plainly as I know how, even though I thought I had already made it clear. Yes, I understand that I must remove all WMS/PPS licensed materials from my download site, and I have made an effort to do so. If you believe other content remaining still falls under your licensing, then by all means please detail which items those are so that I can address them. Secondly, do I understand that I may develop my own colorization but cannot distribute it? Again, the answer to that question is yes. Should that prevent me from sharing my experience with other Getaway owners, taking in there ideas for what I do, and then teaching them how to accomplish there own colorizations, I don't see how such an exercise in any way could be in violation of your copyrights and/or trademarks.
So, are we good now?

Well spoken.

#68 2 years ago

This bullying is unbelievable.
Of course, ColorDMD can't have anybody doing their own colorization and allow them to *gasp* share it with the community or else their business model would be in danger.

So even if you decide to use own work with no WMS property being distributed, you still get threatened with legal action by PPS? Even if they may have no legal ground to stand on, they will cause you lots of trouble just because PPS and ColorDMD don't like the territory you're venturing into?

Unbelievable.

#69 2 years ago

So I'm clearly an open source software advocate, and speaking as one (and a business guy):

Quoted from fishbone:

Of course, ColorDMD can't have anybody doing their own colorization and allow them to *gasp* share it with the community or else their business model would be in danger.

You are correct. If the community is distributing both the dots and the tools to create more on a third party platform, and then redistributing THOSE colorizations, yeah, it directly threatens their business model. Obviously ColorDMD would only speak up if they feel that their patents are being violated in some way. Enforceable internationally? Who knows with enough money and time, but I've found that it rarely has to get to that point. You catch way more bees with honey.

Its also worth noting that when you pay for a ColorDMD unit, you're paying the individuals that contribute hours to ColorDMD for the breadth of titles in their line up. This model sounds a bit familiar.

Randy isn't violating any open source licenses, He also found it easier to enter into a business agreement with PPS just to make things clear about game IP. So, in my book, he's an alright dude. So hey, talk to him, you never know how things might work out. If you disagree, then agree to disagree. He's not going to saw your hands off. If you work with him, you've already got a licensing conduit to work with PPS.

EDIT: Also, since OP has stated that he won't be sharing his colorizations, this point is really moot regarding him, but would still apply to others if they used similar tools to create and distribute color sets to others.

#70 2 years ago
Quoted from Compy:

If the community is distributing both the dots and the tools to create more on a third party platform, and then redistributing THOSE colorizations, yeah, it directly threatens their business model. Obviously ColorDMD would only speak up if they feel that their patents are being violated in some way.

From my experience they "talk" to anybody colorizing a DMD. Look at the smartDMD thread with pinballMikeD. They try to keep their monopoly, which definitely is not a a "business model" of the free market economy.

Since pin2dmd is still a DIY product which is not like colordmd preconfigured and ready to use off the shelf I also don´t see a real competition here. People buying ColorDMD want it that way and would most likely never buy a pin2dmd because of it being to complicated and not good enough. People building a pin2dmd enjoy assembling things and seeing them come to live and would most likely never buy a colorDMD. Most of the Pin2DMD users bought is because it supports machine types which aren't supported by colorDMD like V-Pin, Spooky, Capcom, Gottlieb etc. On the other hand on machine types which are supported by ColorDMD and colorized like CV I know of users which upgraded to colorDMD because of it simply doing it better.

They should trust in the superior quality of their product instead of claiming that every attempt to get color to a DMD being a patent infringement.

#71 2 years ago
Quoted from lucky1:

Since pin2dmd is still a DIY product which is not like colordmd preconfigured and ready to use off the shelf I also don´t see a real competition here.

Pin2DMD hardware is sold and shipped to the United States with Pin2DMD firmware preinstalled. From a user/filesharing standpoint, the only files that need be added are a license key and existing color ROM which Pin2DMD actively promotes and advertises. This is no more DIY than ColorDMD.

The issue at hand isn't whether one is better than the other or more fully featured. It's whether Pin2DMD is unfairly competing by infringing ColorDMD's patents. I think the answer to this is fairly obvious but it's easy enough to resolve.

The unfortunate thing from ColorDMD's perspective is that Pin2DMD has been aware of the issue for more than a year, yet taken no action to resolve it, or warn unsuspecting developers who use the product.

-3
#72 2 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

It does not matter if you are selling it or giving it away, if it's using any wms frames that is where the problem comes in as these are all copyright, that's all and that has been our guidance from WMS as well. If someone constructively reaches out to me we may be able to work something out, but without approval to distribute this in any way, it' becomes a problem ... sorry.

My grandson loves artwork and did a hand drawing of the Williams "GETAWAY" car, because Papa bought him that pinball machine for Christmas and he really loves it ... he even colored that picture in crayon ...

He was very proud of his work and wanted Papa to post his picture in this "GETAWAY" thread for everone to see. So, I had to then tell my 6 year old grandson, that I could NOT do that, because Rick might get his lawyers involved and sue him for copyright infridgement. He was very sad and cried ... can we even say "WILLIAMS" in any thread anymore, or will that get us into trouble also? UNBELIEVABLE and very, very sad actually!

#73 2 years ago

If colour DMDs wernt such a rip off this wouldnt be happening.

I am going to buy 5 of the new pin to dmds at 220euro (or so ) a pop.

I will never buy a colour dmd for 400 euro.NEVER

#74 2 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

Pin2DMD hardware is sold and shipped to the United States with Pin2DMD firmware preinstalled. From a user/filesharing standpoint, the only files that need be added are a license key and existing color ROM which Pin2DMD actively promotes and advertises. This is no more DIY than ColorDMD.
The issue at hand isn't whether one is better than the other or more fully featured. It's whether Pin2DMD is unfairly competing by infringing ColorDMD's patents. I think the answer to this is fairly obvious but it's easy enough to resolve.
The unfortunate thing from ColorDMD's perspective is that Pin2DMD has been aware of the issue for more than a year, yet taken no action to resolve it, or warn unsuspecting developers who use the product.

O.K. that is your next step.

- First you tried to intimidate me by accusing me of stealing your IP for which you have absolutly no legal proof.
- Second you send your friend Rick from PPS who accuses me of contributory copyright infringement. He has also no legal proof for that.
- Third Rick accuses the end user of copyright infringement although not a single piece of data copyrighted by PPS is in our
files, unless the user uses it willfully in a replacement scene. We only ADD information. We don´t COPY it.
- Third you accuse the dealers of contributory patent infringement while most of them are only selling off the shelf development boards combined with off the shelf china LED panels.

And now you try to intimidate the end users by accusing them of contributory patent infringement ?

You have a strange method of treating potential customers. They all have pinball machines you know.

Here comes my thesis:
You had no idea of the existance of the LED panels pin2dmd uses until we presented it.
"Damn why didn´t I have this idea myself" would be a good explanation for your aggressive behaviour.
Then you tried to gain some time by using your patent to intimidate me or what took you so long
to announce your LED product ? Question - How can your patent cover something that you had no idea
that it existed until pin2dmd ? Maybe it is simply a question of who is stealing who´s IP ?

I must admit that your intimidating methods could have worked if I would live in the US which is famous for
incomprehensible lawsuits (and now patents) but thank good I live in Europe where your US patent is not
valid and legally defendable which brings me in the position to say I´m 100% sure I don´t infringe YOUR patent.

In contrary:

Are you 100% sure that what you claim is legally true ?
Are you 100% sure you don´t infringe any patent by using chinese RGB LED panels for your commercial product ?
Maybe a google search for Philips RGB LED patents brings something up

#75 2 years ago
Quoted from urbanledge:

If colour DMDs wernt such a rip off this wouldnt be happening.
I am going to buy 5 of the new pin to dmds at 220euro (or so ) a pop.
I will never buy a colour dmd for 400 euro.NEVER

Lucky1 actually said that if they assembled and sold pin2dmd as a finished product with support it would cost the same as a ColorDMD. So you're just whining that quality products with real support actually have a price you'd rather not pay. There's no "rip off" involved.

Quoted from DB62:

So, I had to then tell my 6 year old grandson, that I could NOT do that, because Rick might get his lawyers involved and sue him for copyright infridgement. He was very sad and cried ... can we even say "WILLIAMS" in any thread anymore, or will that get us into trouble also? UNBELIEVABLE and very, very sad actually!

What kind of ridiculous crap is this? Like Rick would say anything about a kid's fan art. Good lord.

Quoted from lucky1:

O.K. that is your next step.
You had no idea of the existance of the LED panels pin2dmd uses until we presented it.

You make several claims and say "you have no proof" and then you spout this crap? Guess what, you have no proof either.

Everybody tries to paint Randy as this terrible ogre because he dares to speak up when someone is replicating something he patented through the proper channels -- yet it's usually just him contacting the person politely and pointing that fact out. He's not sending knee breakers after people. So much hyperbolic bullshit.

Pinball is a small hobby, we'd be much better off if people would create NEW things rather than clone other peoples efforts and then whine when someone calls them on it.

-1
#76 2 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Pinball is a small hobby, we'd be much better off if people would create NEW things rather than clone other peoples efforts and then whine when someone calls them on it.

Agreed. So Randy will move along now?

#77 2 years ago

Does anyone know how to close a topic on Pinside? As far as I am concerned, nothing positive can come out of any further discussion at this point given that the project as intended is dead.

#78 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Does anyone know how to close a topic on Pinside? As far as I am concerned, nothing positive can come out of any further discussion at this point given that the project as intended is dead.

I think you have to put in a moderator request.

Such a shame, really.

#79 2 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

You make several claims and say "you have no proof" and then you spout this crap? Guess what, you have no proof either.

Absolutely right ! It was just as an example how he is working and still the difference is that I´m not threatening anybody.

Quoted from epthegeek:

Pinball is a small hobby, we'd be much better off if people would create NEW things rather than clone other peoples efforts and then whine when someone calls them on it.

Beeing AFAIK the first who presented RGB LED DMD for pinball machines I think we created something NEW
Here is the order of release dates I found out. Half a year is quite a long time assumed that he was already working on it.

04.09.2015 PIN2DMD on flippermarkt.de
28.09.2015 PINDMD3 from RussDX on vpforums.org
06.10.2015 RGB.DMD from ecrutz on pinside
16.03.2016 COLORDMD

#80 2 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

fyi ... ColorDMD is approved to utilize the WMS frames (which are copyrighted) and colorized them, so that was something we had done with them a long time ago ... there are certainly no issues with original designs to overlay existing games (which we like), as well as personal creations. It's the distribution of the wms frames that we have to be concerned as WMS has been involved in this topic for colordmd and has made it very clear to us that this content is something that they (and we as their licensee) must not be distributed (free or otherwise) ... alway open to great ideas from the community, but that was the direction we had gotten when we did the agreement with the colordmd guys.

I do not think that Pin2DMD stores the frames but rather the checksums. I am not sure how the colorized art is stored however.

#81 2 years ago

Read this thread a couple times now and I don't see any threats or intimidation coming from PPS or from ColorDMD to people using the Pin2DMD product to color their own frames. All I've read as an objective observer are reminders that using copyrighted content and then selling that content is prohibited. Both Rick and Randy have seemed downright polite, even, in this thread.

#82 2 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

Read this thread a couple times now and I don't see any threats or intimidation coming from PPS or from ColorDMD to people using the Pin2DMD product to color their own frames. All I've read as an objective observer are reminders that using copyrighted content and then selling that content is prohibited. Both Rick and Randy have seemed downright polite, even, in this thread.

Thats because the threats of litigation went out via pm/email

#83 2 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Thats because the threats of litigation went out via pm/email

Ok, but if no copyrighted material is being used/sold then it's unclear as to why there's a problem. If nothing illegal is happening, then nobody should have anything to worry about. I'm actually interested in tinkering around with a pin2dmd... maybe for something like Rocky & Bullwinkle.

#84 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Does anyone know how to close a topic on Pinside?

Boobs?

#85 2 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

Ok, but if no copyrighted material is being used/sold then it's unclear as to why there's a problem. If nothing illegal is happening, then nobody should have anything to worry about. I'm actually interested in tinkering around with a pin2dmd... maybe for something like Rocky & Bullwinkle.

Lets just say that the copyright holders like to just "remind" people that they own the copyrights, and just like to cover their bases, just in case.

In fairness, I think most of the problem stems from OP saying he wanted to possibly share his work with people. I do understand why people don't want their copyrights or patents infringed and I can't blame them for protecting them. However, it seems sometimes they are.... "very protective" we'll say. Most people would rather just be safe than sorry.

#86 2 years ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Lets just say that the copyright holders like to just "remind" people that they own the copyrights

Or sometimes just remind them that they'd like to own them but probably don't... like Capcom's rights

-----

Is color data really copyrighted? I was under the impression that these new DMDs kind of encode the data on where a color should be placed on each frame/animation rather than actually store any other data. Actually, how would that even happen? Isn't the game the one sending the signal for what is displayed anyways rather than what SHOULD BE displayed? (i.e. presumably the game boards actually draw the animation itself rather than saying "draw animation X" to the factory original DMD board and then that board pulls it from its own storage.) Pretty sure there's not any copyrighted material in these boards and any animation "rips" would just be used for reference when making the color placements, or no?

#87 2 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

Isn't the game the one sending the signal for what is displayed anyways rather than what SHOULD BE displayed? (i.e. presumably the game boards actually draw the animation itself rather than saying "draw animation X" to the factory original DMD board and then that board pulls it from its own storage.) Pretty sure there's not any copyrighted material in these boards and any animation "rips" would just be used for reference when making the color placements, or no?

Speaking as a coder and someone who's looked at the assembler code for a couple of games (LOTR being one) it looks like the frame is accessed or referred to by a frame number which is pulled from the display rom. I assume the frame number is intercepted by the ColorDMD (or Pin2DMD) software and it substitutes a new color frame for the old one, because it would be much simpler than taking the current uncolored frame and trying to color it on the fly in the software. That would be super complicated to code (speaking as a coder).

#88 2 years ago

If you live in the U.S. and want to play, develop and colorize with PIN2DMD (even with 192x64!!!) feel free to contact me
info@germangamingsupplies.com

Basically it's a replacement for broken DMDs and, as Rick stated, as long as you don't sell colorizations containing WMS material you should be fine.
If you get donations, then it's just like that

...and to remind you of a feature: replacement of complete scenes!!! If you're not allowed to use WMS-content then replace everything with your own animations... just kidding

Kind regards,
Dom

-1
#89 2 years ago
Quoted from lucky1:

Thank good I live in Europe where such patents wouldn´t even make it to the court.

Not true...
Germany is FCC partner, was broadened in the 80's mostly because of Michael Jackson and Beatles library. Then England joined. This was done to keep CD's being made all over the world.
This applies to the smallest factor of any content including code.
I own 2 copyrights and one trademark.
Ive had to use legal action once, the chap was flat out reproducing my material and images for resell.
Just because its europe, doesnt mean anyone is immune.
Pick a movie title, now make a sell a movie poster. It is the same thing. You will here from a studio lawyer.

#90 2 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Not true...
Germany is FCC partner, was broadened in the 80's mostly because of Michael Jackson and Beatles library. Then England joined. This was done to keep CD's being made all over the world.
This applies to the smallest factor of any content including code.
I own 2 copyrights and one trademark.
Ive had to use legal action once, the chap was flat out reproducing my material and images for resell.
Just because its europe, doesnt mean anyone is immune.
Pick a movie title, now make a sell a movie poster. It is the same thing. You will here from a studio lawyer.

This is correct for copyrights but not for a US patent. This is only valid in the US if not part of international patent family.

#91 2 years ago

FYI, I asked the moderators days ago to close this thread, but apparently that has not yet occurred.

#92 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

FYI, I asked the moderators days ago to close this thread, but apparently that has not yet occurred.

We know. PM them directly. Off the cuff in the thread isnt good enough
I actually feel this is important good information valid for discussion.
Its important to know the rules.

#93 2 years ago

Agreed, just didn't want this to turn into a bashing only thread one way or the other.

#94 2 years ago
Quoted from lucky1:

This is correct for copyrights but not for a US patent. This is only valid in the US if not part of international patent family.

Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

FYI, I asked the moderators days ago to close this thread, but apparently that has not yet occurred.

So Pinside should not allow any promotion of possible pirating of IP to [at least] U.S. members right? Is that possible to block that way or should they just stop letting pirates promote on the website? Interesting to wait until it is worked out while obvious legal discussions are occurring.

I think caution should be taken.

#95 2 years ago

JUMP-TO-CONCLUSIONS-MAT.jpg

And while you're at it, I know . . . two other bosses already told me to put cover sheets on my TPS reports.

#96 2 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

So Pinside should not allow any promotion of possible pirating of IP to [at least] U.S. members right?

Wouldn´t that need a judgement first or is it enough somebody claiming it ?

#97 2 years ago

This whole argument is getting silly. It's clear neither party is going to stop arguing or change their ways, so I guess either lawyer up or let it go. It's like political and religious discussions - the bane of the internet. Everybody comes in with an opinion (usually quite strong), and nobody leaves with a changed mind. Waste of time, although this argument likely has a little more merit to it.

2 weeks later
#98 2 years ago
Quoted from lucky1:

How could I simply do that when no detailed information how you do it is public ? By the information from your patent I didn´t even know baout when I was starting ? I even don´t understand what your IP should be reading it today. I only roughly understand the interpretation you give here, but that is nothing more than a interpretation. Fact is that the colorization code in PIN2DMD is 100% based on our own ideas and code!

Nice way to twist the truth. PinDMD and Run-DMD were both in monochrome. We just had the idea to take them to the next level.
PINDMD3 like your Sigma solution was released long after we published information about pin2dmd. How could anything be patented
which did not even exist ?
And if to make them in color is a knockoff then you created colorDMD as knockoff for regular pinball displays ??!!
Do they threaten you with their patents ?

... and just let others do their thing instead of trying to stop them by threatening them with US patents.
Thank good I live in Europe where such patents wouldn´t even make it to the court.

This statement is incorrect pinDMD3 was in colour FAR beyond this point in time. Here is a video from 28th sept 2015! the product was in development 6 months before this video was released.

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