(Topic ID: 172837)

Getaway help - I fried something . . .


By Hammerhead

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Hammerhead
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#1 2 years ago

I'm hoping someone can help me out.

I was trying to diagnose issues with my STTNG, so I tried swapping the MPU board from my Getaway (both WPC-89) to see if that eliminated the problems. I swapped the ROMs at U8. It didn't work, in fact the STTNG became even worse.

I switched everything back as it was, but now on Getaway I have a plethora of issues:
- Row 8 and Column 8 in the lamp matrix are out
- 7 switches show closed when they are open, but they are spread out all over the place (5 are the optos related to the supercharger ramp)
- 3 coils no longer fire; kickback, outhole and lo diverter (where is the lo diverter coil on Getaway anyway?)
- left sling flasher doesn't work on the playfield but does work on the backbox
- right sling flasher does work on the playfield but doesn't work on the backbox
- the relay clicks randomly during test mode

Now here's the funny part. These all go in and out as you let the game sit in attract mode. You can see the lamp matrix row 8 and/or column 8 turn on then off, and I've even had all the coil issues disappear briefly.

What did I cook?

#2 2 years ago

90% of all problems are related to U9-pin26, data D7.

try a little push on the ASIC and check switches/coils/lamps again.

#3 2 years ago

If you didn't smell any smoke you probably didn't fry anything

#4 2 years ago

Remove the batteries, you want to do a "factory setting" dead check.
Remove and reseat all game EPROMs and ASIC on the MPU.
You may have bent pins upon reinsertion.
Inspect all ribbon cabling for offset pins, this is very common.
Then, conduct a full diagnostic test of all coils and feature lightning.
Start simple, work forward.

In the future, do not swap boards from one game into another unless bench tested first.
Especially, MPU and SDBs.

#5 2 years ago

So I've reseated the ICs the ribbon cables and the IDCs and Getaway now lives again. Not sure which of those three was the ultimate culprit.

The only thing is when it starts from cold, it takes about 1 minute before the flippers will actually work. Until then they are weak to the point of not working at all and garbage is displayed on the DMD everytime you flip. After a ball or two everything starts working as it should.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

The only thing is when it starts from cold, it takes about 1 minute before the flippers will actually work. Until then they are weak to the point of not working at all and garbage is displayed on the DMD everytime you flip. After a ball or two everything starts working as it should.

Check for cold solder joints on the PDB and DMCB.
Reflow the joints carefully.
It would be a good time to rebuild the boards.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

So I've reseated the ICs the ribbon cables and the IDCs and Getaway now lives again. Not sure which of those three was the ultimate culprit.
The only thing is when it starts from cold, it takes about 1 minute before the flippers will actually work. Until then they are weak to the point of not working at all and garbage is displayed on the DMD everytime you flip. After a ball or two everything starts working as it should.

Probably time to replace the ribbon cables if you are having scrambled DMD and non working flipper issues.

1 week later
#8 2 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

It would be a good time to rebuild the boards.

Which boards? What parts?

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

Which boards? What parts?

PDB = Power Driver Board.
If the game flippers starts working after it "warms up" that usually caused by colder solder joints, dried capacitors, and the bridge rectifiers.
The current is not either being regulated properly, or their is a drop in voltage due to the trace points.

You can find the most common parts here for reference but can be purchased through other suppliers as well:

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/

DMCB = Dot Matrix Controller Board
It may also need rebuilt based on its age and high voltage used to run the plasma display.

Keep in mind this game is well over 20+ years old, and if never serviced before, is probably due for an overhaul.

#10 2 years ago

I have replaced BR1, BR2, C4, C5, repinned J114, J115, J210, so I'm getting 4.98V all the way to the MPU now.

1 week later
#11 2 years ago

I've now gone even further, replaced all caps on the PDB and DMCB as well as the bridge rectifiers on the DMCB.

No change. As a matter of fact, the flippers now don't work any better when the game warms up. They are constantly weak beyond usability. Still get garbage on the DMD when you flip

#12 2 years ago

So, I don't have a fix for you, but you are randomly replacing components that are not at fault here and you're risking doing board damage to delicate traces while doing so. My advice to you is to slow down and get help troubleshooting the exact issue and replace only the parts that are broken.

If you're in over your head, call a pro tech or send out the boards for service.

#13 2 years ago

Wholesale replacement of caps and bridges is never a good idea. Replace parts if and when they are bad. Otherwise, you're wasting money, time and risking damage of delicate electronic circuit boards and traces.

I don't mean to preach, but I spend probably as much time cleaning up others work as I do actually fixing boards - and I fix a LOT of boards. Diagnose the problem properly, and then repair it, and only it.

The problem you describe is strange. The safest, most logical step IMO is to replace the ribbon cables. On a 20+ year old game, original ribbon cables are ready to be replaced. Plug and unplug cycles wear them out. They stop being flexible. And all it takes is 1 open pin to make a game misbehave and have you pulling your hair out.

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

In the future, do not swap boards from one game into another unless bench tested first.
Especially, MPU and SDBs.

Strongly disagree. This is an invaluable troubleshooting tool that shouldn't be discounted based on a bad experience.

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

It would be a good time to rebuild the boards.

Strongly disagree again. You never want to randomly start replacing parts on a 25 year old board with aging traces etc.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

Wholesale replacement of caps and bridges is never a good idea. Replace parts if and when they are bad. Otherwise, you're wasting money, time and risking damage of delicate electronic circuit boards and traces.
I don't mean to preach, but I spend probably as much time cleaning up others work as I do actually fixing boards - and I fix a LOT of boards. Diagnose the problem properly, and then repair it, and only it.
The problem you describe is strange. The safest, most logical step IMO is to replace the ribbon cables. On a 20+ year old game, original ribbon cables are ready to be replaced. Plug and unplug cycles wear them out. They stop being flexible. And all it takes is 1 open pin to make a game misbehave and have you pulling your hair out.

Have a look at post #7 - 16 days ago.........

#16 2 years ago

While I wait for my ribbon cable order . . .

I have a ball eject issue into the shooter lane. Many times the ball won't make it into the shooter lane and sits halfway between the lane and the ball trough. I took the ball shooter lane eject assembly out and noticed a fair bit of play/slop in the mechanism (at least a half inch). My guess is that the arm may be glancing the ball instead of hitting it directly due to this play. Are they supposed to be this way?

I'll continue to bang my head now

2 weeks later
#17 2 years ago

Road block.

Apparently Marco no longer sells ribbon cable kits, at least not for HS2. Is it as simple as taking the ribbon cables to a local computer store to try to find the closest replacement?

#18 2 years ago

pinballplusMN can do a set of cables for you. Very affordable and well made.

3 weeks later
#19 2 years ago

Finally got replacement ribbon cables - no help

Tried replacing the flipper leaf switches, and the problem changed slightly but is still there. Right flipper more powerful but still not great, left flipper no longer works, garbage on the DMD is gone. Maybe need to look at the leaf switch wiring more closely.

Does anyone have photos of their flipper leaf switches?

2 months later
#20 2 years ago

Have since sold the machine, including the flipper issue - never did get it resolved.

Good luck to the new owner - he has some very capable technical help locally so I'm certain the issue will be resolved soon.

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