(Topic ID: 78179)

Getaway Club ~ Dispatch, run a make on license plate KINGPIN


By MrSanRamon

6 years ago



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#4751 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

Nah, I switched 3 of them, I put f105 in one of those slots

As for the motor issue (if it's not fuse related) is to remove the motor from the housing and test with a 12 volt power source to see if the motor works. If it does then it's not getting power from the machine >> leads you back to the driver board.
For the plunger, as Tilt mentioned, check the switch in switch test mode, possible diode leg broken off.

#4752 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

Nah, I switched 3 of them, I put f105 in one of those slots

I think your fuses need to be tested not just moved around.

Not just loose wires or obvious breaks but the diode broken off, even ever so slightly on the plunger switch, will cause it to fail.

Please enter your switch test and test switch # 78, when within the menu and on switch #78 run your finger over the switch arm in the shooter lane and see if it registers, if it does then we know the switch is good.

So assuming the switch is good then the next test you could try is to see if you can plung the ball, in your case the shooter "rod" will not do this but if you change within the settings to flipper plung and it works then we could potential assume the coil is working...

#4753 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

I noticed that the mars lamp is not rotating as it had been. It still lights up, but does not rotate.

In coil test the solenoids are pulsed on for a very short time, not long enough for the motor to rotate but long enough for the lamp to light. It's the same power for both so the fuse is fine if the lamp lights.

Quoted from red-line:I did the solenoid test and nothing pulses on either the plunger solenoid

Do you have a voltmeter?

#4754 3 years ago
Quoted from tiltmonster:

I think your fuses need to be tested not just moved around.
Not just loose wires or obvious breaks but the diode broken off, even ever so slightly on the plunger switch, will cause it to fail.
Please enter your switch test and test switch # 78, when within the menu and on switch #78 run your finger over the switch arm in the shooter lane and see if it registers, if it does then we know the switch is good.
So assuming the switch is good then the next test you could try is to see if you can plung the ball, in your case the shooter "rod" will not do this but if you change within the settings to flipper plung and it works then we could potential assume the coil is working...

Thanks for the advice. I believe I tried the switch last night and it was fine. I switched the setting to flipper plung and it still didn't work. I'm going to go over the wires completely tonight and see if there is a break anywhere on the machine.

#4755 3 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

In coil test the solenoids are pulsed on for a very short time, not long enough for the motor to rotate but long enough for the lamp to light. It's the same power for both so the fuse is fine if the lamp lights.

Do you have a voltmeter?

When I do the solenoid test, the lamp does light. The lamp also twitches, like its trying to move. I also engaged video mode - the lamp lights but won't spin. I'm going to go through tonight and make sure all the wires are intact EVERYWHERE.

No, I don't have a voltmeter. Just got this (my first) pin about 3 months ago, these are the first issues I've had.

Thanks for the time.

Also for the record, I have a pinball guy, unfortunately he is out of state at the moment, so I'm hoping maybe I can fix it. I need to learn how to do these things, anyway. Thanks again.

#4756 3 years ago
Quoted from Mancave:

As for the motor issue (if it's not fuse related) is to remove the motor from the housing and test with a 12 volt power source to see if the motor works. If it does then it's not getting power from the machine >> leads you back to the driver board.
For the plunger, as Tilt mentioned, check the switch in switch test mode, possible diode leg broken off.

So if the diode was broken, the switch would not work, right? Switch is still showing when I do the switch test

#4757 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

so I'm hoping maybe I can fix it. I need to learn how to do these things, anyway. Thanks again.

Sounds good but you will have to buy a good DMM like a fluke 87. I can't help you unless you can do tests and report your findings.

Quoted from red-line:So if the diode was broken, the switch would not work, right? Switch is still showing when I do the switch test

Sometimes a poor connection will work in switch test but not work during game play because of the speed that the computer scans the switches. When I am having a problem with a switch like this I cut off the pink quick disconnect and solder the wire directly to the switch.

#4758 3 years ago

I went home on my lunch break to look through my wires/connections. One of the wires connecting to the plunger solenoid is questionable, I'll attach a picture. Picture quality is terrible, but what it looks like is about half of the wire is connected, the other wires seem to be frayed off and not connected. I'm getting a soldering iron today to redo the connection.

Once I had looked over the whole machine, I closed it up and started a new game. The plunger worked - for 2 balls. Then it stopped working again. That seems to indicate a faulty connection, right? Either way, I'm going to redo the plunger solenoid solder.

IMG_20170125_115146 (resized).jpg

#4759 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

One of the wires connecting to the plunger solenoid is questionable,

That's not that bad. Since this is an intermittent problem I would check the shooter lane switch.

#4760 3 years ago

Shooter Lane switch is working. Any other ideas why it would come and go?

#4761 3 years ago

Could be a cold solder joint. Reflowing solder on there might bring it back. That worked for one of my intermittent lamps.

#4763 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

Shooter Lane switch is working. Any other ideas why it would come and go?

So when you entered the Single Switch test - T3 - #78 and then ran your finger over the switch it registered the switch (with sound)? If you did not run this specific test please do and let us know if it worked.

Also, if it worked for a few launches then I doubt it's a fuse, they don't work that way, either they are good or they are bad, no in between.

Quoted from red-line:

Once I had looked over the whole machine, I closed it up and started a new game. The plunger worked - for 2 balls. Then it stopped working again. That seems to indicate a faulty connection, right? Either way, I'm going to redo the plunger solenoid solder.

I suppose loose wires, bad connections on the coil or elsewhere may cause it to fail from time to time...

A more detailed picture of the entire coil and switch would be helpful.

Quoted from red-line:

When I do the solenoid test, the lamp does light. The lamp also twitches, like its trying to move. I also engaged video mode - the lamp lights but won't spin.

As for your Mars Lamp, if the beacon motor twitches, that seems to indicate, if I correctly understand what you're saying, that the motor is frozen or just burnt out. These can be purchased here and it's a fairly easy thing to replace.

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/14-7971

It could potentially be that little Triac driver board is bad and they can also be purchase here

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-13088-2

Obviously that's a good chunk of change to spend if it's not needed so if it were me, before I spent any money I would do several tests:

Make sure the fuse on the Triac board is good.

Make sure all connections are solid.

Make sure the lamp cover is connected properly to the beacon motor.

I would take off the beacon motor to see if I could manually spin the rod and hear the gears spin.

I'm not sure how you can really test if the motor is working

Quoted from red-line:

No, I don't have a voltmeter. Just got this (my first) pin about 3 months ago, these are the first issues I've had.

You should get yourself a Multimeter, it will be very useful when owning a machine, they can test for many functions that you may need to know in the future... voltage, current, and resistance

motor (resized).jpg

#4764 3 years ago
Quoted from tiltmonster:

So when you entered the Single Switch test - T3 - #78 and then ran your finger over the switch it registered the switch (with sound)? If you did not run this specific test please do and let us know if it worked.
Also, if it worked for a few launches then I doubt it's a fuse, they don't work that way, either they are good or they are bad, no in between.

I suppose loose wires, bad connections on the coil or elsewhere may cause it to fail from time to time...
A more detailed picture of the entire coil and switch would be helpful.

As for your Mars Lamp, if the beacon motor twitches, that seems to indicate, if I correctly understand what you're saying, that the motor is frozen or just burnt out. These can be purchased here and it's a fairly easy thing to replace.
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/14-7971
It could potentially be that little Triac driver board is bad and they can also be purchase here
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-13088-2
Obviously that's a good chunk of change to spend if it's not needed so if it were me, before I spent any money I would do several tests:
Make sure the fuse on the Triac board is good.
Make sure all connections are solid.
Make sure the lamp cover is connected properly to the beacon motor.
I would take off the beacon motor to see if I could manually spin the rod and hear the gears spin.
I'm not sure how you can really test if the motor is working

You should get yourself a Multimeter, it will be very useful when owning a machine, they can test for many functions that you may need to know in the future... voltage, current, and resistance

I'm starting to think the lamp has been an issue for a while, and I just didn't notice it. I'm not too worried about it right now, as I don't NEED it to play.

I'm also starting to think this is just something I can't fix on my own. Unfortunately my pinball "guy" is out of state, and I have no idea when he'll be back. Oh well.

I did the test as you suggested, tiltmonster, and it did register the switch, and made a beep sound, I assume that's what you were talking about. I went through and did everything I did this afternoon in order to try to figure out what caused it to (briefly) work. No luck.

I'll look into a multimeter, altho my thought right now is that I can't even diagnose where this problem is coming from, so I wouldn't have any idea what to do with the multimeter.

I'm attaching a few more wide-out shots of the coil/plunger just in case one of you eagle-eyes' see something I don't. Thanks for all the assistance, guys!

IMG_20170125_165342 (resized).jpg

IMG_20170125_165332 (resized).jpg

IMG_20170125_165317 (resized).jpg

#4765 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

I went home on my lunch break to look through my wires/connections. One of the wires connecting to the plunger solenoid is questionable, I'll attach a picture. Picture quality is terrible, but what it looks like is about half of the wire is connected, the other wires seem to be frayed off and not connected. I'm getting a soldering iron today to redo the connection.
Once I had looked over the whole machine, I closed it up and started a new game. The plunger worked - for 2 balls. Then it stopped working again. That seems to indicate a faulty connection, right? Either way, I'm going to redo the plunger solenoid solder.

Is that wire grounding on something?

#4766 3 years ago

Tell me what's going on with the coil connection on the right side? Is that a bolt or screw that the wire is soldered onto?

#4767 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

I'm also starting to think this is just something I can't fix on my own. Unfortunately my pinball "guy" is out of state, and I have no idea when he'll be back. Oh well.

BTW, it's far too early in the process to think that so we will keep looking...

If I'm seeing your photos correctly, it looks like the tabs came off the coil (probably when the PF gets lowered back in place they can get bent and make contact with the cabinet potentially causing a short too, that's why I put electrical tape on mine, just in case) and they soldered a bolt to the wires and then the coil wire; however, if that's not the case those solder connection may need some work. If it is the case I would replace that coil.

#4768 3 years ago
Quoted from tiltmonster:

BTW, it's far too early in the process to think that so we will keep looking...
If I'm seeing your photos correctly, it looks like the tabs came off the coil (probably when the PF gets lowered back in place they can get bent and make contact with the cabinet potentially causing a short too, that's why I put electrical tape on mine, just in case) and they soldered a bolt to the wires and then the coil wire; however, if that's not the case those solder connection may need some work. If it is the case I would replace that coil.

It's just a lot of solder, no bolt. The connections don't look great. I ordered a soldering iron today, so I'll redo those connections on Friday.

IMG_20170125_174856 (resized).jpg

IMG_20170125_174814 (resized).jpg

#4769 3 years ago

Some other things to look at, now that I'm thinking about it.. the shooter coil is connected into the high current driver assembly (C- 13509-1) (follow the purple/orange and orange wires over to the left and it's that little board on the bottom of the PF. If you had a multimeter we could test it but make sure all the connections and wires are intact. This then goes into the back box in the fliptronic board (A-15472), just for fun check those fuses and connections

fliptronic board (resized).jpg

#4770 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

It's just a lot of solder, no bolt. The connections don't look great. I ordered a soldering iron today, so I'll redo those connections on Friday.

Ah, ok. I would think about replacing that coil too, it may get there at the same time as your soldering iron. Those wires from the coil could have been damaged or come loose and the potential cause of your problems. They are cheap enough and you could get the coil sleeve and spring while you're at it and once we get your issue cleared up you'll probably never have to mess with that ever again.

If you decide to go that route and need help with the parts list...

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=3171
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=2915

or

http://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=a-14789
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/10-128
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-7067-6

#4771 3 years ago
Quoted from tiltmonster:

I'm not sure how you can really test if the motor is working

I have heard that sometimes the shaft can get slightly bent over time so it ends up with a tight spot on the mesh of the gears. It's a normal 12V motor so it will have a positive tab and a negative tab. Remove the motor from the assembly and hook up to a 12 Volt battery, won't matter if you have the pos/neg wires on the wrong tabs, it won't burn out, just spin in the opposite direction. At least this test will tell you for sure if the motor has died. If the motor works it will be either a binding issue with the gears or a power issue.

#4772 3 years ago

Checked the wires and fuses as you suggested, tilt - no luck there. I did manage to break a fuse in the process, though! The fuse I buy doesn't have to be specific for pinball, right? So long as it is the type the game says it needs to be (3A 250V SB)

#4773 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

Checked the wires and fuses as you suggested, tilt - no luck there. I did manage to break a fuse in the process, though! The fuse I buy doesn't have to be specific for pinball, right? So long as it is the type the game says it needs to be (3A 250V SB)

That's right, it should be ok as long as it's a SB and same Amp

EDIT: Buy some extra fuses, an assortment of the ones listed is a good idea and if you get the parts I mentioned, it's probably a good time to buy yourself a fuse puller too, even something as simple as this

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=425

#4774 3 years ago
Quoted from Mancave:

I have heard that sometimes the shaft can get slightly bent over time so it ends up with a tight spot on the mesh of the gears. It's a normal 12V motor so it will have a positive tab and a negative tab. Remove the motor from the assembly and hook up to a 12 Volt battery, won't matter if you have the pos/neg wires on the wrong tabs, it won't burn out, just spin in the opposite direction. At least this test will tell you for sure if the motor has died. If the motor works it will be either a binding issue with the gears or a power issue.

Good idea, worth a try

#4775 3 years ago
Quoted from Mancave:

I have heard that sometimes the shaft can get slightly bent over time so it ends up with a tight spot on the mesh of the gears. It's a normal 12V motor so it will have a positive tab and a negative tab. Remove the motor from the assembly and hook up to a 12 Volt battery, won't matter if you have the pos/neg wires on the wrong tabs, it won't burn out, just spin in the opposite direction. At least this test will tell you for sure if the motor has died. If the motor works it will be either a binding issue with the gears or a power issue.

I will definitely give it a try. First I'd like to solve my plunger issue so I can play, though! Haha

#4776 3 years ago
Quoted from tiltmonster:

That's right, it should be ok as long as it's a SB and same Amp
EDIT: Buy some extra fuses, an assortment of the ones listed is a good idea and if you get the parts I mentioned, it's probably a good time to buy yourself a fuse puller too, even something as simple as this
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=425

Awesome! Thanks! Yeah, I broke the other fuse prying it out with a screwdriver, simultaneously saying to my wife "I wonder how you're *supposed* to do this?"

#4777 3 years ago

It's highly unlikely that the Mars lamp and the shooter issues are related so at this point you may need to get or borrow a multimeter and run some tests. With limited resources we don't know everything that's going on with the boards so you may just want to swap out the coil and see if that gets you up and running.

EDIT: There are plenty of us here who can walk you through the process, it's really straight forward and if your semi-handy, you should have no problem doing it yourself.

#4778 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

Awesome! Thanks! Yeah, I broke the other fuse prying it out with a screwdriver, simultaneously saying to my wife "I wonder how you're *supposed* to do this?"

Yeah, some of those fuses can be very old and they can get "crusty" making them difficult to remove. The tricky part is some fuses may look like they are ok but they are bad so that's why you need to test them.

#4779 3 years ago
Quoted from Mancave:

I have heard that sometimes the shaft can get slightly bent over time so it ends up with a tight spot on the mesh of the gears. It's a normal 12V motor so it will have a positive tab and a negative tab. Remove the motor from the assembly and hook up to a 12 Volt battery, won't matter if you have the pos/neg wires on the wrong tabs, it won't burn out, just spin in the opposite direction. At least this test will tell you for sure if the motor has died. If the motor works it will be either a binding issue with the gears or a power issue.

Isn't it a 12 volt AC motor?

HS2 Motor (resized).jpg

#4780 3 years ago
Quoted from 0geist0:

Isn't it a 12 volt AC motor?

To be honest, the manual doesn't specify and there's nothing identifying AC on the motor casing. I don't see why it would be AC? Most 12V lines in pinball machines are DC that i know of.

#4781 3 years ago
Quoted from Mancave:

To be honest, the manual doesn't specify and there's nothing identifying AC on the motor casing. I don't see why it would be AC? Most 12V lines in pinball machines are DC that i know of.

If it was DC it would have one red wire and one black wire.
I just went through this with my HS2
My beacon was missing so I got one that was DC and had to put a bridge rectifier in line to convert the current.

#4782 3 years ago
Quoted from 0geist0:

If it was DC it would have one red wire and one black wire.
I just went through this with my HS2
My beacon was missing so I got one that was DC and had to put a bridge rectifier in line to convert the current.

Fair enough. So how does red-line go about testing his motor to see if it still works?

#4783 3 years ago

Red-Line, where do you live?

#4784 3 years ago
Quoted from 0geist0:

If it was DC it would have one red wire and one black wire

Although i've seen many DC powered items that have had various combo's of wire colour (Red, Green) (Black, White) (Yellow,Black) and also (Red,Red) you are correct, the motor is 12VAC. Just did some research.
By the way, these motors are still available from marco's, although a repro "beefed up" version supposedly. Handy to know if Red's motor is cactus. Seems testing AC motors is an intriguing process

#4785 3 years ago
Quoted from Mancave:

Although i've seen many DC powered items that have had various combo's of wire colour (Red, Green) (Black, White) (Yellow,Black) and also (Red,Red) you are correct, the motor is 12VAC. Just did some research.
By the way, these motors are still available from marco's, although a repro "beefed up" version supposedly. Handy to know if Red's motor is cactus. Seems testing AC motors is an intriguing process

How would you go about testing a 12 volt AC motor?

#4786 3 years ago
Quoted from 0geist0:

How would you go about testing a 12 volt AC motor

Connect it to a 120 volt to 12 volt step down transformer.

#4787 3 years ago

you guys replace batteries while on? is it really that dangerous?

#4788 3 years ago
Quoted from weaverj:

you guys replace batteries while on? is it really that dangerous?

Yep, as long as you install them correctly. Plus to plus and neg to neg.

#4789 3 years ago
Quoted from weaverj:

you guys replace batteries while on? is it really that dangerous?

You lose all your settings and scores if you change them with the machine off.

#4790 3 years ago

yeah, that's why i didn't wanna do it that way. just did my BSD. kinda hard to get them out and in, but not bad. thanks, guys.

#4791 3 years ago

One of the magnets on my supercharger isnt working. Replaced the tip 102 on the supercharger board and that didnt do the trick. Any ideas? Also, where does this plug in?

20170122_132300 (resized).jpg

20170122_132321 (resized).jpg

#4793 3 years ago
Quoted from simplykind:

One of the magnets on my supercharger isnt working. Replaced the tip 102 on the supercharger board and that didnt do the trick. Any ideas? Also, where does this plug in?

What magnet?

Where does that wire on the molex come from? From the photo it looks like just a single cut wire with a molex connector on the other end...

#4794 3 years ago

OK guys, I think I diagnosed the problem w the plunger. Got my soldering iron today, and after I removed the solder, it looks like the right diode (is that what the metal tab is called?) snapped off at some point in the past, and instead of replacing it, they just soldered the shit out of it. Take a look and lemme know what you think. I'll be ordering a new solenoid tonight, hopefully that will solve my problem. I haven't been able to play since I did the LED conversion, and it's killing me!

IMG_20170127_172922 (resized).jpg

IMG_20170127_172910 (resized).jpg

#4795 3 years ago
Quoted from tiltmonster:

Red-Line, where do you live?

I'm in St Louis, Missouri. The motor can't be broken (at least I don't think?). I've gone into video mode to test it out and it twitches a few times, then starts spinning. Is it supposed to be spinning the entire time? After I fix my plunger I'll start worrying about that.

Thanks again for all your help, guys. Way above and beyond what I thought I'd get here.

#4796 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

OK guys, I think I diagnosed the problem w the plunger. Got my soldering iron today, and after I removed the solder, it looks like the right diode (is that what the metal tab is called?) snapped off at some point in the past, and instead of replacing it, they just soldered the shit out of it. Take a look and lemme know what you think. I'll be ordering a new solenoid tonight, hopefully that will solve my problem. I haven't been able to play since I did the LED conversion, and it's killing me!

No, that's not a diode, its just a lead. This is a diode: http://www.electrical4u.com/diode-working-principle-and-types-of-diode (not to worry, I first mistakenly identified a diode as a resister when I got into this - we can't all be electrical circuit geeks).

If you were impatient and wanted to test before your new solenoid arrived, you could disconnect the coil wire where it attaches to your destroyed lead, strip the end (sandpaper or something) then soldier your wire directly to that. Would need to cover with electrical tape or instead of soldier use a wire nut for an easily reversible fix (you definitely want to cover it to avoid a short). This is only a temp test to see if the bad lead was indeed your issue.

#4797 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

No, that's not a diode, its just a lead. This is a diode: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi_x7KDzePRAhVCQCYKHUL_AsAQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.protostack.com%2Fdiodes&psig=AFQjCNHJe41Cu-znCRKJqJzFeJk0Pdz0Jw&ust=1485650356975386
(not to worry, I first mistakenly identified a diode as a resister when I got into this - we can't all be electrical circuit geeks).
If you were impatient and wanted to test before your new solenoid arrived, you could disconnect the coil wire where it attaches to your destroyed lead, strip the end (sandpaper or something) then soldier your wire directly to that. Would need to cover with electrical tape or instead of soldier use a wire nut for an easily reversible fix (you definitely want to cover it to avoid a short). This is only a temp test to see if the bad lead was indeed your issue.

So I could just run the electric wire straight into the solenoid wire w/ a wire nut, just bypassing the lead? (until I get my new solenoid)

#4798 3 years ago
Quoted from red-line:

So I could just run the electric wire straight into the solenoid wire w/ a wire nut, just bypassing the lead? (until I get my new solenoid)

That's what I was trying to say before thinking that may have been what went wrong, the coil wire that connects to the tab where you solder the wire onto had come loose... you could do what you ask for a temp fix soldering the wire directly to the coil wire; however, I would replace that coil, they are only about $12-14, do it once and do it right. At the same time replace the coil sleeve, the plastic part that goes on the inside of the coil (these wear out too) and the spring would be optional. I listed those parts up in an earlier post.

I asked where you lived because the motor I showed in my earlier photo is my old beacon motor, it worked but it was spotty but if yours is spinning then it may be the way the lamp cover is connected and may just need to be tightened up... if that doesn't work I could send you my old motor (I only keep it as a back up but they are still available to buy).

topper (resized).jpg

#4799 3 years ago
Quoted from tiltmonster:

What magnet?
Where does that wire on the molex come from? From the photo it looks like just a single cut wire with a molex connector on the other end...

Magnet 3, all optos work. Magnets 1 and 2 work. Not sure where that connector goes need to dig further

#4800 3 years ago
Quoted from simplykind:

Magnet 3, all optos work. Magnets 1 and 2 work. Not sure where that connector goes need to dig further

Ah, ok well so much for that thought... but sometimes the magnets just die. I'll open up my back box and look around a bit to see if I spot anything

EDIT: Check pins J134 on the driver board? What colors are the wire? Is that wire cut and just laying there?

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