Odon, IN
Do we have to buy before the expiration date?
(Topic ID: 165659)
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Quoted from Jediturtle:So 3 or 4 Stern titles have been ghosting lately? Anything designed by JPOP would like to have a word with you...in fact I'd say there's pretty close to the exact same number of B/W titles that were notorious for ghosting as there now are for Stern. It should be fixed, but don't fool yourself into thinking Stern is yet again the only "bad" manufacturer.
I'm not one of those people that thinks B/W games are better and in many ways are worse than Stern but the recent issues seem to be true when comparing Stern to Stern. GOT and Kiss seemed to have the normal percentage of problems but there's a noticeable uptick with SMVE and GB ghosting. I think I'll stay out of this argument though and defer to more knowledgeable folks on the matter.
I just like the design of the shirt and would like to get one as a keepsake. 
Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:Ok, I'll bite.
Jjp has made TWO games in like five years, and those games took years to get out and are still plagued by issues that should have been resolved in house.
Spooky are badasses but their low production numbers make QC much easier to manage then for a major manufacturer like stern.
Heighway: one game made, took years, I rest my case.
Flash, not flaming you just crossing my fingers that in the future you will be more observant of the positive things that are coming from the stern factory. When you spend 8k on a machine, be grateful that you have the ability to do so, and thankful for those who work tirelessly to provide you with these new machines for a hobby you love.
Even if these companies are producing one or two games, that still makes them pinball manufacturers. They are still producing games that are being sold.
So I guess what you are saying is Stern is producing too many games. They should take note from the other pinball manufacturers and value quality over quantity.
Quoted from wizard_mode:Or at least Stern could match boutique builder's QC on their low production run LE or Premium games (but better quality is not listed on the feature matrix ). I think the boutique builders need time and titles under their belts in order for these issues to show up; it is just a matter of time. Too small of a sample size at this point.
Honestly, my engineering mind wonders if a hard wood product could be engineered to reduce the moisture and density variation inherent to multi-layer plywood that is causing some of these issues. Heck you could even match the thermal expansion coefficient of the plastic insert material!
If you read the other thread, Vid posited an interesting theory that part of what made Williams go out of business was their diamond coat playfields. Before that routed games wouldn't last but a few years and after Diamond coat operators didn't find it necessary to buy new games. So I think there are answers to making playfields last longer for a similar cost but that would take away from people buying new machines.
Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:Pretty much. That plus the fan base recognizing that stern has a lot more on their plate than the other guys and therefore cut em some more slack when it comes to issues like this!
I think the main issue is communication. The new manufacturers have been a lot more open and understanding of issues than Stern.
Quoted from wizard_mode:I don't buy the whole "people won't buy more because their old one never broke" theory. It doesn't hold up in so many industries.
I'm not saying it's true but it is interesting. I mean there are many manufacturers that dabbled in an alternate playfield material that didn't wear or warp like wood but none of them committed to making them. I think Sega of Japan made all of their pins with a plastic-like playfield.
Quoted from TwilightZone:The pinball division of Williams was profitable. Diamond plate didn't kill the company. Management did.
At one of the Expos I attended years ago, one of the Williams designers held a presentation and discussed what killed Williams. I think it was Gomez, but I cann't be certain. He stated Williams had become a successful slot machine business. The problem was the pinball business was hard for business analysts to assess, so the stock value of the company was lower than management felt it was worth. The answer was to get rid of the pinball business that was no longer their main business (in their eyes) even though it was profitable. They killed the pinball division and even split the assets so no one could easily start up again. They didn't advertise for a buyer. Simply closed it.
A bit of a tangent to the current thread.... just addressing that one point.
It was just a theory. I'm sure there were many contibuting factors. I've heard operators waiting for machines to be discounted was another reason.
Quoted from Nevus:I think it is in poor taste, but funny. A collectors item for sure. I'm getting one!
It would be great if Gary Stern has the sense of humor to wear one like this infamous picture from the set of IJ 4.
That felt more like he was sticking it to fans but whatevs. 
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