(Topic ID: 165659)

Get your #fixmyplayfield shirt for Expo


By flashinstinct

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 65 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Nevus
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 65 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 3 years ago

    Since Stern seems reluctant to say anything about their playfields deficiencies why not make your voice heard during expo? Stern has left 100's of fellow pinheads to hangout to dry. All profits will go to Project Pinball Foundation. I wish I could have set the price lower but the site won't let me.

    Comes in various colours and sizes.
    You can share the post with fellow pinheads at https://www.facebook.com/wheresthecode/

    www.teespring.com/fixmyplayfield

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    #2 3 years ago

    That is FANTASTIC!

    #3 3 years ago

    Hard to read for something dubbed so important, I do like the design though. Enjoy them!

    #4 3 years ago

    Do we have to buy before the expiration date?

    #5 3 years ago

    That's when the campaign ends not sure if you can purchase after that.

    #6 3 years ago

    great shirt and great charity.

    I love the ability to wear something like this to expo! Hopefully we see lots of them about.

    -17
    #7 3 years ago

    Are you making one for Bally/Williams too? Because you do realize they had the exact same issues...
    #doublestandard?

    (not at all saying that makes it right...just let's not forget many of Stern's issues were shared by all manufacturers in the past)

    #8 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jediturtle:

    Are you making one for Bally/Williams too? Because you do realize they had the exact same issues...
    #doublestandard?

    Yes it does occur on Bally Williams games that are over 25 years old. These are happening right out of the box. You are comparing apples and oranges.

    #9 3 years ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    Yes it does occur on Bally Williams games that are over 25 years old. These are happening right out of the box. You are comparing apples and oranges.

    mmmm Apples and Oranges, I'm hungry

    #10 3 years ago

    I'm betting someone gets a cease order at some point. Aside from the business impact (yes, I know this is what you are going for, but you need to make sure what you are doing is legal), at least make sure you do not use Stern's logo/font combination. I am betting they have it trademarked.

    #11 3 years ago

    The font that Stern uses is a free font, no issues there. I'm not spelling out that it's a bad product, I'm not advertising per say not to buy the machines. The shirt is a statement made by the person using the shirt. It's asking Stern to fix a faulty product? Hell I could prove that statement just by walking at expo with a video camera and take a look at every stern made since 2000 and compare the ghosting at an average... We all know what the results would be. It's not slander if it's true!

    Screen_Shot_2016-08-04_at_12.17.32_PM_(resized).png

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    Yes it does occur on Bally Williams games that are over 25 years old. These are happening right out of the box. You are comparing apples and oranges.

    LOL! Do you really think it took 25 years for B/W inserts to ghost? No. It is amazing how much of B/W past is glossed over because they are now 25 years old and the majority of the issues have been fixed by operators and owners through the years.

    Again...that's not a free pass by any means. This issue should be addressed. But it gets old hearing how much better B/W was than Stern when they had the exact same issues...from unfinished code to ghosting inserts.

    #13 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jediturtle:

    Are you making one for Bally/Williams too? Because you do realize they had the exact same issues...
    #doublestandard?
    (not at all saying that makes it right...just let's not forget many of Stern's issues were shared by all manufacturers in the past)

    really? Come on Chris.

    I own LOTS of B/W games and very rarely do I have any inserts with even minor ghosting.

    Yet, MANY Sterns with issues rapidly out of the box for insert ghosting and major pf issues. These pf issues seem to be way worse in the most recent titles.

    #14 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jediturtle:

    LOL! Do you really think it took 25 years for B/W inserts to ghost? No. It is amazing how much of B/W past is glossed over because they are now 25 years old and the majority of the issues have been fixed by operators and owners through the years.

    Nope but I'm sure the fail rate was not as high right out of the box.

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    really? Come on Chris.
    I own LOTS of B/W games and very rarely do I have any inserts with even minor ghosting.
    Yet, MANY Sterns with issues rapidly out of the box for insert ghosting and major pf issues.

    So 3 or 4 Stern titles have been ghosting lately? Anything designed by JPOP would like to have a word with you...in fact I'd say there's pretty close to the exact same number of B/W titles that were notorious for ghosting as there now are for Stern. It should be fixed, but don't fool yourself into thinking Stern is yet again the only "bad" manufacturer.

    #16 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jediturtle:

    So 3 or 4 Stern titles have been ghosting lately? Anything designed by JPOP would like to have a word with you...in fact I'd say there's pretty close to the exact same number of B/W titles that were notorious for ghosting as there now are for Stern. It should be fixed, but don't fool yourself into thinking Stern is yet again the only "bad" manufacturer.

    Yeah, CV is notorious for insert ghosting, but by and large it is a rarity in other B/W games. Aside from that I have had zero issues on the 2 spooky games, no issues with FullT, and no issues with Hobbit.

    We are talking about currently available games. Apples to Apples, there is a current trend and it appears to suddenly be much worse with GB. If anything teh trajectory is rapidly increasing for # of bad pfs from Stern. It is a big issue that needs to be addressed ASAP.

    #17 3 years ago

    Is there a thread that summarizes the Stern PF issues? I did not realize there were any. I have not seen any bad Stern PFs on location anywhere...

    Update: NM I found it. Damn I will have to take a closer look at the machines I play on route. The ghosting is probably there.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hey-stern-are-you-serious

    #18 3 years ago

    For the T-Shirt, change the word "Stern" to "Gary" in the same font and you will avoid the trademark infringement legal issue while still getting your point across...

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Yeah, CV is notorious for insert ghosting, but by and large it is a rarity in other B/W games. Aside from that I have had zero issues on the 2 spooky games, no issues with FullT, and no issues with Hobbit.
    We are talking about currently available games. Apples to Apples, there is a current trend and it appears to suddenly be much worse with GB. If anything teh trajectory is rapidly increasing for # of bad pfs from Stern. It is a big issue that needs to be addressed ASAP.

    Good to hear there are no other current manufacturers having issues. Hopefully it stays that way. This is a nasty problem, no doubt, and I hope no one thinks I am marginalizing it. Hopefully Stern figures it out soon and makes it right for the customers with problem playfields.

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from Jediturtle:

    So 3 or 4 Stern titles have been ghosting lately? Anything designed by JPOP would like to have a word with you...in fact I'd say there's pretty close to the exact same number of B/W titles that were notorious for ghosting as there now are for Stern. It should be fixed, but don't fool yourself into thinking Stern is yet again the only "bad" manufacturer.

    I'm not one of those people that thinks B/W games are better and in many ways are worse than Stern but the recent issues seem to be true when comparing Stern to Stern. GOT and Kiss seemed to have the normal percentage of problems but there's a noticeable uptick with SMVE and GB ghosting. I think I'll stay out of this argument though and defer to more knowledgeable folks on the matter.

    I just like the design of the shirt and would like to get one as a keepsake.

    #21 3 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Yeah, CV is notorious for insert ghosting, but by and large it is a rarity in other B/W games.

    So all of the ghosting and subsequent chipping on Fish Tales, Getaway HSII, and several others does not count?

    #22 3 years ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    The font that Stern uses is a free font, no issues there. I'm not spelling out that it's a bad product, I'm not advertising per say not to buy the machines. The shirt is a statement made by the person using the shirt. It's asking Stern to fix a faulty product? Hell I could prove that statement just by walking at expo with a video camera and take a look at every stern made since 2000 and compare the ghosting at an average... We all know what the results would be. It's not slander if it's true!

    Sounds like good arguments. I say give it a try.........

    #23 3 years ago
    Quoted from Manimal:

    So all of the ghosting and subsequent chipping on Fish Tales, Getaway HSII, and several others does not count?

    pf issues ocassionall happened on B/W games, but they did not happen with this alarming trend or amount.

    When they did happen, it seemed B/W actually reacted quickly. There are 2 FT pf verisons (one with insert issues and the other without) 2 BSD pf makers (one with planking and one without). When issues arose they appear to have been addressed and not a multiple game streak of the same issues/getitng worse. Aside from that B/W is a dinosaur and long dead.

    We are comparing CURRENT manufacturers.

    #24 3 years ago

    Hopefully this will get out and Stern will respond like they did with "Wheresthecode"

    -6
    #25 3 years ago

    Still taunting Stern, Flash? Please grow up and apply your talents elsewhere. You're just gonna get another c&d for your effort.

    #26 3 years ago

    Ordered. Primarily for the charity and support for the designer. I don't really have a dog in the "new in box ghosting issue" hunt, but I could easily see how that would drive people mad. Though, the one Stern that I do own had severe ghosting issues until I fixed them, but that is a decade old Pirates of the Caribbean, so I can't complain too much. All that said to say support Project Pinball and I love shirts!

    #27 3 years ago

    So if we are going to compare CURRENT manufacturers...were shirts made when JJP mailed out stickers to cover all of their WOZ playfield wear? Or for any other number of recent game issues with light boards, wiring, etc? My point being that this industry is a shining example of success and failure on may levels, and nothing is bulletproof, especially the first run out of the chute. I am NOT a fanboy, and quite frankly, I have been very critical of Stern's lack of communication in the past. I just find it interesting how this issue has taken on a life of it's own, mostly because of social media. You use terms like "alarming trend", and this "amount". Do you have any idea of how many of these are affected, compared to what has been produced? Stern doesn't publish numbers, and all we have so far aside from the export GBLE's (that we assume are all affected, but again really don't know) are maybe 20 or 30 confirmed cases of different models with actual pictures on Pinside? And several of those folks who posted, wrote that they never noticed the ghosting, or even cared, until they saw something on the forum. We know there are still GBLE's yet to ship, and there are only 500 of those. There were a few Pro's out there prior, and I am sure Stern is VERY AWARE of the problem, so the affected number should be a small percentage of what we hope will eventually run (of GB anyway). The problem may be much worse than we think, or it may be minor...we just don't know at this point. We DEMAND they fix our playfields, yet they have yet to refuse to do so. Maybe they are still finding a solution? There are a lot of conclusions being jumped to these days.......just my .02 cents.

    #28 3 years ago
    Quoted from fumbleflippers:

    Still taunting Stern, Flash? Please grow up and apply your talents elsewhere. You're just gonna get another c&d for your effort.

    I'd say the efforts here are worth it. Wheresthecode got Sterns attention and I feel that they are paying more attention to code updates.

    Stern is saying nothing on the insert issue. They've also not really said much on the factory delays, when Stern announces a game, LE's usually ship within.. 6 weeks.. GB was announced in... March?April?

    Stern saying SOMETHING at this point would be better than saying nothing.

    #29 3 years ago

    fix-playfields-stern_(resized).png

    #30 3 years ago
    Quoted from Manimal:

    were shirts made when JJP mailed out stickers to cover all of their WOZ playfield wear? Or for any other number of recent game issues with light boards, wiring, etc?

    no because they spoke with customers/collectors and actually addressed those issues...

    They have new pfs and I know a few impacted people that were taken care of.
    Light boards were fixed and new ones sent out along with new fixes on the line.

    Keep in mind that a PF and light boards are not even remotely in the same realm for most. I can swap a light board in minutes. A pf swap is gonna take a bit more time.

    -1
    #31 3 years ago

    I for one am over the negativity you are always sending in sterns direction. Pinball manufacturing has always had issues, God forbid the only remaining manufacturer hasn't tackled a problem that has always existed while maintaining a steady stream of games for the last twenty or so years. I understand you would like more from a. Company you have invested so much money into but get real, why no #thanksforkeepingpinballalive campaign? Why not put this much effort into showing gratitude for an entity which has provided you with countless hours of entertainment, and a hobby that you care so dearly for! Just puttin it out there that you should maybe consider using your time and talents for something more constructive #flashworldproblems

    #32 3 years ago
    Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:

    God forbid the only remaining manufacturer

    Have you been under a rock for the past few years? JJP, Heighway, and Spooky have all delivered and continue to make games.

    If anything, Stern should be very thankful that people are helping to hold them accountable now that they have more competition in the market.

    #33 3 years ago
    Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:

    I for one am over the negativity you are always sending in sterns direction. Pinball manufacturing has always had issues, God forbid the only remaining manufacturer hasn't tackled a problem that has always existed while maintaining a steady stream of games for the last twenty or so years. I understand you would like more from a. Company you have invested so much money into but get real, why no #thanksforkeepingpinballalive campaign? Why not put this much effort into showing gratitude for an entity which has provided you with countless hours of entertainment, and a hobby that you care so dearly for! Just puttin it out there that you should maybe consider using your time and talents for something more constructive #flashworldproblems

    I understand your frustration. I tried to say thanks to Stern for the code updates last year. I even made a thread and how many posts did that thread get?

    9 posts

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wheres-the-code-thank-you-stern

    So before you go and flame me, the truth is Stern messed up, they know they've messed up and instead of being proactive and telling people they are working on the problem they are keeping silent. When you spend $8K + you expect a certain standard. This instance is a playfield standard, you expect your game to last years... not get chipped / ghosting inserts after you open the box.

    On the positive note, Stern can learn from this, make it right to the more the 100's of people that this affected. And just post a thread on here to put people at ease.

    #34 3 years ago

    Is it possible that Stern has yet to identify what the problem is? If they came out and said that they would get roasted just the same, and it is funny the mentality on pinside that B/W was an absolutely flawless pin manufacturer.

    -1
    #35 3 years ago
    Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:

    I for one am over the negativity you are always sending in sterns direction. Pinball manufacturing has always had issues, God forbid the only remaining manufacturer hasn't tackled a problem that has always existed while maintaining a steady stream of games for the last twenty or so years. I understand you would like more from a. Company you have invested so much money into but get real, why no #thanksforkeepingpinballalive campaign? Why not put this much effort into showing gratitude for an entity which has provided you with countless hours of entertainment, and a hobby that you care so dearly for! Just puttin it out there that you should maybe consider using your time and talents for something more constructive #flashworldproblems

    What a bunch of crap!

    -2
    #36 3 years ago

    Have you been under a rock for the past few years? JJP, Heighway, and Spooky have all delivered and continue to make games.

    Ok, I'll bite.
    Jjp has made TWO games in like five years, and those games took years to get out and are still plagued by issues that should have been resolved in house.
    Spooky are badasses but their low production numbers make QC much easier to manage then for a major manufacturer like stern.
    Heighway: one game made, took years, I rest my case.

    Flash, not flaming you just crossing my fingers that in the future you will be more observant of the positive things that are coming from the stern factory. When you spend 8k on a machine, be grateful that you have the ability to do so, and thankful for those who work tirelessly to provide you with these new machines for a hobby you love.

    #37 3 years ago
    Quoted from AlexSMendes:

    What a bunch of crap!

    You must be looking at your water again!!!

    #38 3 years ago
    Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:

    You must be looking at your water again!!!

    That's not water

    #39 3 years ago
    Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:

    Ok, I'll bite.
    Jjp has made TWO games in like five years, and those games took years to get out and are still plagued by issues that should have been resolved in house.
    Spooky are badasses but their low production numbers make QC much easier to manage then for a major manufacturer like stern.
    Heighway: one game made, took years, I rest my case.
    Flash, not flaming you just crossing my fingers that in the future you will be more observant of the positive things that are coming from the stern factory. When you spend 8k on a machine, be grateful that you have the ability to do so, and thankful for those who work tirelessly to provide you with these new machines for a hobby you love.

    Even if these companies are producing one or two games, that still makes them pinball manufacturers. They are still producing games that are being sold.

    So I guess what you are saying is Stern is producing too many games. They should take note from the other pinball manufacturers and value quality over quantity.

    #40 3 years ago
    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    Even if these companies are producing one or two games, that still makes them pinball manufacturers. They are still producing games that are being sold.
    So I guess what you are saying is Stern is producing too many games. They should take note from the other pinball manufacturers and value quality over quantity.

    Or at least Stern could match boutique builder's QC on their low production run LE or Premium games (but better quality is not listed on the feature matrix ). I think the boutique builders need time and titles under their belts in order for these issues to show up; it is just a matter of time. Too small of a sample size at this point.
    Honestly, my engineering mind wonders if a hard wood product could be engineered to reduce the moisture and density variation inherent to multi-layer plywood that is causing some of these issues. Heck you could even match the thermal expansion coefficient of the plastic insert material!

    -1
    #41 3 years ago
    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    Even if these companies are producing one or two games, that still makes them pinball manufacturers. They are still producing games that are being sold.
    So I guess what you are saying is Stern is producing too many games. They should take note from the other pinball manufacturers and value quality over quantity.

    Pretty much. That plus the fan base recognizing that stern has a lot more on their plate than the other guys and therefore cut em some more slack when it comes to issues like this!

    #42 3 years ago
    Quoted from wizard_mode:

    Or at least Stern could match boutique builder's QC on their low production run LE or Premium games (but better quality is not listed on the feature matrix ). I think the boutique builders need time and titles under their belts in order for these issues to show up; it is just a matter of time. Too small of a sample size at this point.
    Honestly, my engineering mind wonders if a hard wood product could be engineered to reduce the moisture and density variation inherent to multi-layer plywood that is causing some of these issues. Heck you could even match the thermal expansion coefficient of the plastic insert material!

    If you read the other thread, Vid posited an interesting theory that part of what made Williams go out of business was their diamond coat playfields. Before that routed games wouldn't last but a few years and after Diamond coat operators didn't find it necessary to buy new games. So I think there are answers to making playfields last longer for a similar cost but that would take away from people buying new machines.

    -1
    #43 3 years ago
    Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:

    Pretty much. That plus the fan base recognizing that stern has a lot more on their plate than the other guys and therefore cut em some more slack when it comes to issues like this!

    Exactly, people getting their pitchforks out before they even know how Stern is going to remedy the situation, I believe Stern has a pretty good track record when it comes to that. While I don't think silence is good, I trust them to do the right thing based on past experiences

    #44 3 years ago
    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    If you read the other thread, Vid posited an interesting theory that part of what made Williams go out of business was their diamond coat playfields. Before that routed games wouldn't last but a few years and after Diamond coat operators didn't find it necessary to buy new games. So I think there are answers to making playfields last longer for a similar cost but that would take away from people buying new machines.

    I don't buy the whole "people won't buy more because their old one never broke" theory. It doesn't hold up in so many industries.

    #45 3 years ago
    Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:

    Pretty much. That plus the fan base recognizing that stern has a lot more on their plate than the other guys and therefore cut em some more slack when it comes to issues like this!

    I think the main issue is communication. The new manufacturers have been a lot more open and understanding of issues than Stern.

    #46 3 years ago

    I pulled this from the GB thread:

    Quoted from jrockne:

    Here's the response I got back from Stern when I emailed them about the ghosting inserts:
    RE: Inquiry Submitted
    Hi Jeff,
    Thanks for the email. We have had some reports of insert ghosting on some games. The team is looking into what may have caused the issues. If you do have any problems with your game please work with your distributor on a solution.
    Let me know if you need anything.
    Jody

    Stern is aware of the issue.

    #47 3 years ago
    Quoted from wizard_mode:

    I don't buy the whole "people won't buy more because their old one never broke" theory. It doesn't hold up in so many industries.

    I'm not saying it's true but it is interesting. I mean there are many manufacturers that dabbled in an alternate playfield material that didn't wear or warp like wood but none of them committed to making them. I think Sega of Japan made all of their pins with a plastic-like playfield.

    #48 3 years ago
    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    I think the main issue is communication. The new manufacturers have been a lot more open and understanding of issues than Stern.

    I agree with you...if it were my company, I would take my lumps and address the elephant in the room.

    However, with that said, I can see their side too......anything they say gets blasted to the forum within minutes. Look above and it is already happening (assuming the messages are legit). If they agree to replace your playfield, and you post that info. Every owner with a scratch, nick, ball trail, or booger on the playfield will be hounding Stern for a new playfield. If they tell you to go "pound sand" because your problem is normal wear, then everyone will jump to conclusions without any facts, and will be grabbing for their pitchforks and torches. They are in a "no win" situation here, and my guess is they plan to address the issue, but first they need to figure out a fix, and then determine how widespread it really is. Once they have that info, they can come up with a plan of action....but the last thing they want to do is tell everyone they will replace the playfields, and then have 10K people show up at their doors. They would be out of business pretty fast.....and then where would we be? We would have 400 forum threads on how rabid Pinsiders drove the company out of business.

    #49 3 years ago
    Quoted from SHOOTTHEPYRAMID:

    Pretty much. That plus the fan base recognizing that stern has a lot more on their plate than the other guys and therefore cut em some more slack when it comes to issues like this!

    I don't think some people in this thread is completely aware of what's really going on....

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hey-stern-are-you-serious

    and I agree 100% with these last 2 posts:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hey-stern-are-you-serious/page/44#post-3279318
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hey-stern-are-you-serious/page/44#post-3279329

    #50 3 years ago
    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    If you read the other thread, Vid posited an interesting theory that part of what made Williams go out of business was their diamond coat playfields. Before that routed games wouldn't last but a few years and after Diamond coat operators didn't find it necessary to buy new games. So I think there are answers to making playfields last longer for a similar cost but that would take away from people buying new machines.

    The pinball division of Williams was profitable. Diamond plate didn't kill the company. Management did.

    At one of the Expos I attended years ago, one of the Williams designers held a presentation and discussed what killed Williams. I think it was Gomez, but I cann't be certain. He stated Williams had become a successful slot machine business. The problem was the pinball business was hard for business analysts to assess, so the stock value of the company was lower than management felt it was worth. The answer was to get rid of the pinball business that was no longer their main business (in their eyes) even though it was profitable. They killed the pinball division and even split the assets so no one could easily start up again. They didn't advertise for a buyer. Simply closed it.

    A bit of a tangent to the current thread.... just addressing that one point.

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