Trump better find a cheap way to manufacture the stuff on the list in the USA or things are gonna get awfully expensive around here.
-Mike

Heres a thought....just dont buy them

That's the private sectors job. Not the Govt.

Wonder if Thunderbirds is going to cost more

1st world problems

Here’s my guess...all companies will raise their prices and blame it on tariffs. In a year or two, tariffs will be cut or eliminated again. But prices will stay high, with companies enjoying the new margins of profit. It’s the same thing the airlines and delivery companies do when gas prices go up....raise prices to “cover increased fuel costs” but never lowering them when gas goes back down.

Here’s something else to consider: items like lobster and coal that are highly exported to countries like China may see a drop in demand, resulting in lower prices for Americans. Remember, there are two side to every coin....

I can't wait to have my friends over to play on the huge coal pile I'm gonna have in my front yard once the price drops!!

The tariffs make no sense if there is no domestic substitute. In this case, The only people getting hurt are consumers.

See....the Amish people in Lancaster know how to party!!

If the extra ~20 cent cost per LED is too much to bear on your $2,000+ luxury item, you can make your own for 5 cents each!

Tough times we're living in....

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/leds-for-5-cents-each

Good point!

GLOBAL TRADE WAR CLUSTERFUCK

Next game from Danesi

Am I the only one thinking that with the price of games that I don't give a s@##t about a 25% led price increase. Drops in the ocean......

Sounds like another price hike on NIB games is imminent given the tariffs as that will hike BOM costs.

Even if BOM goes down for the next ten games made, prices will continue to increase.

Its not just leds, it’s basically every electrical component, capacitors, resistors, etc.

There is a de minimus level so for small time buyers, you won’t see the increase, it really hurts the larger manufacturers who buy in large quantity.

Get those incandescents ordered!

Or another thought....buy American

Where? I don’t know of a single American LED company.

Someone in the US will start making LED bulbs i am sure.

Thanks Obama.

It's already in the works.

We have top people working on it right now...top people.

Well, I’m a EE and have dealt with assembly manufacturing over the past 10 years. I deal exclusively with domestic partners in Utah and Colorado with most components coming from Pacific sources. They are not shy about trying to pass off changes in their costs to the purchaser, and I have yet to hear about any tariff issues. Like most of the political news these days, a lot of it is overblown.

Who is doing it? If someone starts making surface mount LED modules and companies like Titan Pinball start using them, there will be a lot of money to be made. And best of all, it all goes to back to America in the form of wealth, GDP, and new manufacturing jobs.

This will be interesting to see how it effects the electronic component, pinball LED resellers and the pinball industry in general. Capacitors, LEDs, transistors, resistors are all included but integrated circuits seem to be left out unless they fall under "8541.50.00 Semiconductor devices other than photosensitive semiconductor devices, nesoi". Blank Circuit boards do not seem to be included, but anything for the production of circuit boards is.

I don't think this is going to be that big of a deal for nvram.weebly.com. Simple passive parts like resistors, ceramic capacitors, etc all sourced from China, but they can also be gotten from Thailand for not much more.

Here is the full list of tariffs.

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/List%201.pdf

8532.10.00 Fixed electrical capacitors designed for use in 50/60 Hz circuits and having a reactive
power handling capacity of not less than 0.5 kvar
8532.21.00 Tantalum fixed capacitors
8532.22.00 Aluminum electrolytic fixed capacitors
8532.23.00 Ceramic dielectric fixed capacitors, single layer
8532.24.00 Ceramic dielectric fixed capacitors, multilayer
8532.25.00 Dielectric fixed capacitors of paper or plastics
8532.29.00 Fixed electrical capacitors, nesoi
8532.30.00 Variable or adjustable (pre-set) electrical capacitors
8532.90.00 Parts of electrical capacitors, fixed, variable or adjustable (pre-set)
8533.10.00 Electrical fixed carbon resistors, composition or film types
8533.21.00 Electrical fixed resistors, other than composition or film type carbon resistors, for a
power handling capacity not exceeding 20 W
8533.29.00 Electrical fixed resistors, other than composition or film type carbon resistors, for a
power handling capacity exceeding 20 W
8533.31.00 Electrical wirewound variable resistors, including rheostats and potentiometers, for a
power handling capacity not exceeding 20 W
8533.40.40 Metal oxide resistors
8533.40.80 Electrical variable resistors, other than wirewound, including rheostats and
potentiometers
8533.90.80 Other parts of electrical resistors, including rheostats and potentiometers, nesoi
8535.10.00 Fuses, for a voltage exceeding 1,000 V
8535.21.00 Automatic circuit breakers, for a voltage of less than 72.5 kV, but exceeding 1,000 V
8535.29.00 Automatic circuit breakers, for a voltage of 72.5 kV or more
8535.30.00 Isolating switches and make-and-break switches, for a voltage exceeding 1,000 V
8535.90.40 Electrical motor starters and electrical motor overload protector, for a voltage
exceeding 1,000 V
8535.90.80 Electrical apparatus nesoi for switching, protecting, or making connections for
electrical circuits, for a voltage exceeding 1,000 V, nesoi
8536.10.00 Fuses, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V
8536.20.00 Automatic circuit breakers, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V
8536.30.40 Electrical motor overload protectors, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V, nesoi
8536.41.00 Relays for switching, protecting or making connections to or in electrical circuits, for a
voltage not exceeding 60 V
8536.49.00 Relays for switching, protecting or making connections to or in electrical circuits, for a
voltage exceeding 60 but not exceeding 1,000 V
8536.50.40 Electrical motor starters (which are switches), for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V
8536.50.90 Switches nesoi, for switching or making connections to or in electrical circuits, for a
voltage not exceeding 1,000 V
8536.69.40 Connectors: coaxial, cylindrical multicontact, rack and panel, printed circuit, ribbon or
flat cable, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V
8536.90.40 Electrical terminals, electrical splicers and electrical couplings, wafer probers, for a
voltage not exceeding 1,000 V
8541.21.00 Transistors, other than photosensitive transistors, with a dissipation rating of less than
1 W
8541.29.00 Transistors, other than photosensitive transistors, with a dissipation rating of 1 W or
more
8541.30.00 Thyristors, diacs and triacs, other than photosensitive devices
8541.40.20 Light-emitting diodes (LED's)
8541.40.70 Photosensitive transistors
8541.40.80 Photosensitive semiconductor devices nesoi, optical coupled isolators
8541.40.95 Photosensitive semiconductor devices nesoi, other
8541.50.00 Semiconductor devices other than photosensitive semiconductor devices, nesoi
8541.60.00 Mounted piezoelectric crystals
8541.90.00 Parts of diodes, transistors, similar semiconductor devices, photosen

World ending multiball.

I remember when hardly anything we used was made in China. I'd like to see it go back to the days when things are made in factories that were paid for and built by the good old USA.
Unknown (resized).jpg

I hated when it happened.....I was manufacturing in NY....business with friends, and families.
Then I had to move production to Mexico, to stay competitive after NAFTA.
Ultimately, that wasnt good enough, and everything was then made in China, Malaysia, India....I hated sending funds overseas, instead of here.

But it all started when we found the fastest solution to pollution in our streams...1966....was to pollute others rivers and air.

I dont know if people would be willing to pay the costs?

I paid $1000 for my first stereo, so an iphone would be $2000-$3000 today....LEDs, maybe $3.00?

Would we all pay without complaint?

Just what we need...more coal.

Well, hopefully this will bring lots of jobs back to america.... but at the cost of lower srtandard of living as prices will go up, and lower corporate earnings as companies can't exploit cheap foreign labor, and tariffs show up on our exports. In the long run, I hope to see this result in the equalizing of the classes.... though when the cost of goods goes through the roof almost overnight, I have a feeling Trumps base may turn on him.

If you saw the HUGE pile of coal sitting next to the ship channel bridge here in Houston, you would be amazed. And it’s all going to China to run their power plants and factories. That’s right next to all the train tankers loaded natural gas for export too.

So for all the global warming folks here in the States, just because we shut our stuff down isn’t making a hill of beans good on the world climate. Other nations are just using our natural resources to continue the economic edge on us.

As for our water being safer now since 1966...see Flint MI.

Yep That is all part of the plan.....

They need inflation. Quantitive easing didn't do it,neither have low interest rates. As prices in some areas go up, Americans respond with stiff resistance. China has answered this resistance with lower and lower prices. This avenue to keep prices low must be hindered in order for inflation to begin in earnest. Why?
There is a formula where inflation negates the astronomical Foreign debt we owe. Too much to explain here as to how this works, do a little research.
Answer the Tariffs with stiff resistance by not purchasing non-essential goods or panic buying, beef up your savings account and cash instead.

My quote was referring to how after WWII we spent billions of dollars rebuilding Japan and then in the following decades we imported quality goods from there, not the cheap junk that comes from China.

Perhaps the summit of a couple weeks ago wasn't just about disarming nuclear weapons, but in the bigger scheme of things a business deal that will let us be much less dependent on imports from China and improve the quality of what we are importing.

Unknown (resized).jpg

If you saw the HUGE line of coal rail cars miles long in WY running under something that looks like Sauron's tower from Lord of the Rings loading each one with coal, you, too would be amazed. I was. Point is, we are using a lot less coal in the US, and coal consumption is on a downward trajectory worldwide as wind, solar, and natural gas become more cost-effective and the first two are WAY cleaner overall. Even China's coal consumption fell the last two years, so they may be bringing up the rear of the train, but they're finally catching on.

Scorch how are tariffs on Chinese imports going to bring back jobs? Won't people do what barakandl said he'd do -- just buy parts from somewhere else?

I'm having trouble connecting the dots on how tariffs on Chinese imports will result in class equalization, could you explain?

Nope! Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette..

You will need to explain this to me. I don't see any connection.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thanks-obama

The USA has the best scrubbers, filters on those coal plants. Now look to China and India, there is not even a screen on them and they pour out the black soot.

I was born in 1952 and grew up seeing and buying the toys at the dime store that were "Made in Japan". Most of those toys were junk and the "made in japan" label was the day's joke. However, now that I am older, I am of the opinion that a lot of times the "junk that was made in Japan" was nothing more than part of a sales pitch used by slippery salesmen in the US. Honda Motorcycles in the 60s and later on Japanese cars in the 70s blew the fantasy that Japan produced junk out of the water.

SIDEBAR: In the early part of the 20th Century up until 1953, there were two major motorcycle manufacturers in the U.S. There was Harley-Davidson and there was Indian. Indian closed its doors in '53 and left the market to Harley-Davidson alone. And what Harley did best for the next 30 years was to continue to produce an engine that leaked oil. It took competition from the Japanese motorcycle manufacturers for Harley to finally get religion and produce the non-leaking Evolution engine in 1984.

And we can talk about the junk Detroit foisted in the car buying public until sometime in the 80s. Hell, even Henry Ford Jr. was interviewed by 60 Minutes in the late 70s and said "We build lots of lousy cars". Detroit is why we have a law on the books called The Lemon Law. It took foreign competition for Detroit to finally clean up its act.

But I digress.

Several years ago I decided I was going to organize and digitize all of the old 8MM family movies my dad was busy cranking out when I was just a little tyke. I needed an 8 mm projector, splicers, and various hand crank items used for working with 8mm film. Ebay was my supplier for these vintage products. I learned two things. All of this stuff was made in Japan post WW II. And none of it was junk. It was, and still is, high quality product.

As you say, the US spent billions rebuilding Japan. And it was General Macarthur who told the Japanese to protect their markets. So as I look at all of the post WW II 8mm movie making product from Japan I wonder how it all came to be. Ddi the government powers that be sit down and make a grand plan to start promoting 8mm movie making in the US and and also wave a golden wand and declare Japan would be the supplier to this 8mm market?
You know, sort of like a Marshall Plan for Japan. The big winner in this sort of arrangement was Kodak--until Fugi Film came along.

I like your Made in North Korea logo. For North Korea to enter the 21st Century and give up its missiles it has to have something to produce that the world will buy. But that means more competition in the world's markets. So first, you build a world class hotel; Trump has that part right.

Do you think China will just sit back and let North Korea start stealing its markets?

Interesting.

Part of the reason Chinese goods are so cheap is due to labor exploitation and almost non-existant environmental regulations. American made products are more expensive due to higher priced labor and heavy regulations. The tariffs allow American products to be more cost competitive, which creates demand and generates more jobs.

Like others have said, other countries also export cheap products, but they're generally not close to the mass quantity that China exports.

When I started, I was paying $.35 an hour for low skill labor in China, today, its around $.80-$1.20.
When everything is taken into account, China's labor is 6 to 10 times cheaper than here.
There is Government help for Equipment and Assets, etc.

Small adjustments we can handle, a trade war with hyperinflation.....is concerning.

Agreed. It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Yeah, no. You're being quite simplistic... and rather biased. The situation is far more complex.

For one thing, we don't even have the ability manufacture a lot of these goods. LED panels for example. Take Vizio, a US-based company, production has always been in Taiwan or China. They're simply not made here.

So let's say we jack the tariffs up so high that we can afford to spin up plants in the USA. Great, we are now paying 10x for goods produced locally. Think about the collateral damage and the end results. Businesses that rely on imported steel, install solar roofs, sell electronics will have to raise their prices. Those costs get passed straight to the consumer, and if the consumer can't or won't pay the higher cost, production drops and jobs are lost. Oh yeah, this impacts retail consumers too. Do you really want to pay $3,000 for your next phone?

You state that "American made products are more expensive due to higher priced labor and heavy regulations" which is very narrow. Of course it costs much more to live in the USA so we have to pay people more. But we're certainly overturning those regulations that keep our air and water clean, though! Soon we'll be able to compete with China and enjoy the same smog levels as Beijing, where the last time I visited the AQI was /literally/ off the chart at 999+, where 300 is the maximum bad.

The reality is much more complex. CEO's absurdly high salaries, American corporate waste (the insanely high cost of advertising, for example), and ever-increasing healthcare costs are at least as much of a factor why we can't compete with a Chinese LED panel.

Another thing to consider: what do we really gain from making LED panels in the USA? Oh yeah, the government would gain. That's where the tariff money would go. Not a particularly free market move, though.

In addition we'd gain a few jobs, but not many. Making LED panels is a heavily automated process.

A similar set of stupid is behind the effort to reignite coal. Coal is more expensive than solar or wind, and it also spews radioactivity and toxic fumes in the air and is very dangerous to mine. The industry should be allowed to die, because it doesn't make any sense any more. What's next, whaling for oil?

My last point for now, China and everyone else we hit with tariffs will just impose them on us. We're still a massive, massive exporter. More jobs lost.

I've not even scratched the surface. Trade wars benefit nobody.

Policies of this board prohibit me from discussing the real reasons behind these tariffs, but they should be glaringly obvious.

Others including me, yeah. And I think you vastly underestimate the capacity of Thailand, Taiwan, India, Costa Rica, etc etc etc etc etc to produce cheap high quality goods.

Brijam ... I think you're getting hung up on the LED panels.... ya... chances are we will never be making them here... so worse case scenario is that prices go up by 25% on all our LEDs, so in essence that gets passed on to the consumer and the 25% difference goes in to the government coffers.... in effect creating a luxury tax.

I'm pretty sure though that tariffs on other items like steel, will absolutely increase domestic manufacturing. which will create new jobs.

Now the downside.... domestic companies will see a decrease in exports, and component prices will increase. so lower corporate profits.

You say that trade wars benefit nobody... but I would disagree. There will definitely be winners and losers in a trade war, and I would think that the US will absolutely benefit (though not all segments of the population will benefit equally).

I do agree that coal re-vitalization is about as dumb as trying to subsidize Asbestos manufacturers..... obsolete technologies should be allowed to die.

FYI - Not a fan of our current president... yes I would have voted for Hilary (if I could vote)... but his attempt to equalize the trade deficits by imposing tariffs is something I can get behind. And maybe the inflation which will result combined with the additional income from the tariffs may just help to reduce our national debt..... (or more likely, just reduce the deficit)

Not hung up, I was just trying to keep on topic.

But see, that's not the worst case scenario. Worst case, China gives us the finger and stops buying our stuff. Since they're effectively a dictatorship they can do that. We can't.

Based on what, exactly? Did you read this, maybe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tariff

And lost jobs. And incentive for international competitors to make deals and sell things where American businesses once had the deals. It can be really hard to recover from this kind of thing.

It's widely understood (by economists and supported by data) that trade wars hurt all parties. That's why they call them wars. Feel free to provide economic data that proves otherwise.

Here's where we can agree. I'm not okay with China dumping solar panels on us and destroying our solar industry. That shouldn't be allowed, and to my knowledge we actually reduced tariffs on Chinese solar panels recently. But... steel? Coal???? Really?

I'm 100% behind getting our trade deficit equalized. But come on, it is extraordinarily unlikely that we'll ever be able to compete internationally in the steel markets. This is just going to screw a bunch of American businesses. I'm not finding any businesses or economists who support this, except the steel industry itself of course.

We should be signing agreements like the TPP and fostering the innovation of products that will sell internationally (Tesla, SpaceX, Boeing). We lead the world in entertainment, culture, cars (finally, again), Internet, software and technology and a few other places.

But we have to go further. We should steal a page from China, who is investing billions into their New Silk Road, investing heavily in Africa. That's how you build a trade empire. That's how /we/ did it post WWII. China is going to /crush/ us if we don't change our ways.

Of course I'd much rather see us balance the Federal budget than aim for balanced trade, but no chance of that with this administration.

I didn't know we had an expert in world trade here, from Portlandia no less! Looks like you even took the time to educate all us fools on coal, CEO salaries, healthcare, and air quality. I feel so enlightened!

If the sky was falling, like your rants allude to, the stock market would be a good indicator of that. At this point, my portfolio is fat and happy and the economy continues to set records. We'll see where this leads, but the people betting seem to be cautiously optimistic despite the changes to trade.