(Topic ID: 198371)

Generators - It's time to upgrade

By mcluvin

6 years ago


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  • 61 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by mcluvin
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    #14 6 years ago

    I finally got a Generac 16KW standby about 1.5 yrs. ago. It's been put thru its paces several times and has worked like a champ. 7 yr warranty finally closed the deal as I was also considering a Kohler. Had a nice 4KW (5KW starting) portable one that came in handy, but if I happen to be on travel, the better half likely could never figure out how to work it. With a finished basement, just didn't want to take a chance (Murphy's Law, you know). We live out in the boonies, so we are not the first in line for the repair work when needed...I'm guessing they hit the most populated areas first when restoring power.

    2 weeks later
    #22 6 years ago
    Quoted from mcluvin:

    I've read reviews where owners say they have been able to run a 4 ton heat pump with the XP12000. Maybe they are using a soft start kit and simply didn't clarify? Using the LRA x volts calculation, there should be no way it would work without one. I'd certainly prefer going with a 10 kw generator and a $250 soft start kit vs a costly 20 kw generator. Check the graph.

    This might not be relevant since I'm comparing it to my Generac, not your XP1200. But I will toss it out anyways as 'food for thought'. Our Generac has a smart switch wired into our hot tub. It simply monitors the frequency of the generator's output, not the voltage. If the 60 Hz deviates too low (i.e. the generator is being loaded too heavily), it will trip the smart box and disconnect the load. After awhile, it will reconnect and power the load, if the frequency is maintained within the proper range.

    Perhaps there's an aftermarket unit you can incorporate into your system.

    I'm not sure why an A/C manufacturer wouldn't incorporate the appropriate sized capacitor for a softer start, except for the minimal increase in cost (a few dollars, likely)...but I've have seen the mods advertised.

    1 week later
    #28 6 years ago
    Quoted from mcluvin:

    Got the TES-4 installed and of course, it was defective. Ha! It would start the compressor, but apparently, the potential relay was stuck, and wouldn't remove the start capacitor from the circuit. This is not good. The compressor starts, runs for a bit, then stops (probably overheating).
    Anyway, quickly removed it from the circuit and e-mailed Amrad. They were very cool and offered a replacement with the newest model (TES-5). Their HQ is just up the road from me, so I drove up and they gave me a tour of the place. It was neat to see how the capacitors are made. I had no idea.
    So got the new part installed. You can definitely hear the relay click now and the compressor startup sounds so much better. I will probably leave the start capacitor out of circuit unless using the generator though. I imagine a start capacitor stuck on for any extended length of time would probably smoke that compressor. Why take the chance?

    I actually have a z-wave current monitor installed in my breaker box to monitor current when the sump pumps runs in the finished basement (yeah, I'm a geek, lol). And a couple for the whole house and one on the pins. Would be interesting to do the same on the heatpump and see if the inrush current actually is less with a different cap. Let me know if you want more details and I will post!

    #32 6 years ago
    Quoted from mcluvin:

    Yeah sure. That would be cool. I thought about adding a meter box for the generator, but I've read they are next to useless.

    Hi MC,

    I tried to paste a SnipIt of one of the current probes just so you can see what it captures. More of a fyi than anything... I can see when the hot tub runs, when the heat pump runs, electric stove, fridge, etc. I too run Samsung SmartThings.

    Capture (resized).pngCapture (resized).png

    #35 6 years ago
    Quoted from hoby1:

    Just picked up my first generator in our last 3 day outage.
    Bought a Generac GP5500 and it worked flawlessly...
    Trying to find out what the THD is on the unit but they don’t say. I’m wondering if it’s safe to run electronics with it Also would the surge protector make it ok if the THD is greater than 5%.

    Hoby1,

    If you really want to know the distortion, the simplest (and cheapest) way to measure would be w/a modern scope that has that feature or a math feature which is called 'FFT' built it. I won't go into the details unless you want to know. You can just 'YouTube' it if you want to know. And it probably changes depending on the load. I did look at the 5500 spec sheet which mentions less than 5%, but of course, it didn't go into the test conditions. But the data sheet does mention it's safe for electronics. You can see it here: http://gens.generac.com/generaccorporate/media/library/content/all-products/portable-recreational-power/0180710sby-portable-full-line-catalog.pdf?ext=.pdf

    Regarding the surge protector - a surge protector usually clamps a high frequency spike in the nano second range, and the surge is a high voltage event (higher than the 120V). Distortion is a harmonic of the line voltage (i.e. 2nd harmonic is 120Hz, 3rd harmonic is 180Hz, etc., if line frequency is 60Hz), and the hamonic is much, much lower than the 120V line voltage. What might be the biggest concern would be if you load the generator too much by running to many appliances, the 60Hz could drop in frequency, causing some power supplies to be less than 'happy'.

    Just my 2 cents - hope this clarifies things a bit.

    Mark

    #37 6 years ago
    Quoted from mcluvin:

    The only electronics I've ever killed with a generator were a couple battery backups. I've had a large LCD TV not run well on a generator, so I just disconnected it. A smaller TV ran fine. I've used some pretty crappy generators over the years.
    Given everything else I'm upgrading, I am also installing a HEPD80 whole home surge protector in my main panel.

    Square D makes some that simply snaps into an empty slot in a beaker box. You just need to connect the ground wire (keeping it short). Might save you some time installing.

    Here's mine:

    20180324_105902 (resized).jpg20180324_105902 (resized).jpg

    #40 6 years ago

    Good deal MC. I didn't have access to the sides since my garage has peg board installed. So going internally was my best bet. Try to keep the wires as short as possible since those will look inductive (meaning it will make the surge spike less prone to actually being clamped by the transient protector).

    I still use surge suppressors throughout the house as a second line of defense since you can never be sure where the spike sneaks in at. That could happen with a nearby lightning strike - could get picked up by the wires in the house, and not come in thru the mains at the fuse box.

    Playing around inside a live breaker box - fun, eh? LOL

    #41 6 years ago
    Quoted from JimB:

    I have the transfer switch for most of the home but no connection to the well pump breaker. Thinking of getting a small generator just to get the well 220 running for water. Anyone know of a switch to wire into a well direct to the pump?

    JB,

    Before I ended up finally going to a whole house generator, I had a 2nd, smaller, breaker box for the primary circuits I wanted to run. Sumps, well, fridge, some lights, etc. When the electrician installed, they used like a teeter-tot piece between the mains and the 120V from the roll-around generator. It's just a piece of metal that pivots to one breaker or the other, but not both. This prevents you from accidently back-feed the generator into the mains since only one breaker could be on at a time.

    Might not completely fit your needs, but something similar might be appropriate. Just get a small breaker box for the well pump that can switch between the breakers - one for the normal 220V, the other for the generator. And the metal piece prevents 'bad things' from accidently happening. You can see it in the pic below. Make sense?

    Good luck!

    20180324_124215 (resized).jpg20180324_124215 (resized).jpg

    #43 6 years ago

    I actually have a 2nd breaker box in the basement, fed by the main box in the garage. That powers all the basement stuff - rather nice. So I also installed one down there too since it was easy. Sure is nice to have the 2nd box since I can add another breaker for more pins!

    Mains always hot - LOL. Same on my end. I took a piece of cardboard and covered the feed lines into the house for when I accidentally do something stupid.

    #49 6 years ago
    Quoted from mcluvin:

    Will this also measure amps?

    I bought the discontinued Aeon current probe (maybe $20-$30). It ONLY measures current in amps. You can set the voltage for a default value (i.e. 120V) to estimate power (Power = voltage x current). The newer clamp also measures the voltage, which I believe allows you to directly measure watts and apparent power (without being too geeky, this is what happens when current and voltage is out of phase). I wasn't worried about that, so the cheapie version was fine by me.

    Hope that answers your question, I can go into more detail if needed. Just holler if needed.

    #50 6 years ago
    Quoted from mcluvin:

    Interlock is installed and just gotta wire up the generator inlet. We are almost cooking with Crisco!

    Looks like you are almost there!

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