Coronation
Gottlieb, 1952
Double-Shuffle
Gottlieb, 1949I was wondering if there was a simple way to make the ball trails up the shooter lane and around the top arc look better. I'm not talking about filling in the groove but somehow making it a bit less obvious. The sort of oil mixture I'd use on furniture would seem to be a very bad idea, but what is the alternative?
I tend to leave my side rails etc as is but just oil them to hide fine scratches etc.
However when there is no varnish left , then I have a few legs and a lockdown bar to re-finish.
Someone did one of these and the other is for me to do.......it looks a lot worse in real life.
So, really wondering best products for best finishes and whether brush or spray best?
Here's my abridged version. I like semi-gloss lacquer with a good brush. Sand your parts to bare wood. Vacuum or wipe down with mineral spirits to remove dust. 3 coats of lacquer. Lightly sand again, vacuum or mineral spirits again and apply two more coats. Steel wool with extra fine steel wool to knock down the gloss a bit and make it silky smooth. This is my preferred method and there are likely others that will also provide good results.
Quoted from AlexF:Here's my abridged version. I like semi-gloss lacquer with a good brush. Sand your parts to bare wood. Vacuum or wipe down with mineral spirits to remove dust. 3 coats of lacquer. Lightly sand again, vacuum or mineral spirits again and apply two more coats. Steel wool with extra fine steel wool to knock down the gloss a bit and make it silky smooth. This is my preferred method and there are likely others that will also provide good results.
Concur.
The original finish is lacquer. So sand/strip the original remnants off, sand smooth, apply lacquer until desired finish is reached (sanding, multiple coats, knockdown sheen).
One thing to note is that when you sand the wood, you'll also be removing the topcoat of the wood that has yellowed, bringing back the original lighter wood color. This color won't match the rest of the aged look of the game, so you may also consider applying a light stain to the wood before the lacquer to give it a bit darker look (a colonial maple is a reasonable shade).
Best to experiment on a new block of maple wood before tackling the original parts though.
Great advice - thanks.
So, semi-gloss as opposed to satin or gloss?
And clear presumably?
Wondering if I get a new set from pbr, whether a colored varnish ( light oak ) would be better to 'age' them?
Clear, yes.
Really best to experiment on some new maple to see what results best match your expectations. A gloss can be knocked down, but it's hard to shine up a satin.
I'd use a stain+lacquer rather than a varnish, to add color.
But you'll want to discover all the results on scrap wood first and not a $50 new leg. 
Quoted from DirtFlipper:Clear, yes.
Really best to experiment on some new maple to see what results best match your expectations. A gloss can be knocked down, but it's hard to shine up a satin.
I'd use a stain+lacquer rather than a varnish, to add color.
But you'll want to discover all the results on scrap wood first and not a $50 new leg.
Great advice. I never thought of staining first and then adding clear lacquer! And experimenting first is a good idea as well.
On existing lacquered rails and head I am using the stuff you recommended - it is really quick, simple and effective. And forgotten the name of it but 2 cans in the garage
Maybe this stuff would be good? Semi-gloss clear.
http://www.amazon.com/Epifanes-Rapid-Clear-750-ml/dp/B0016ZBNZE
Quoted from Deez:Man watching this thread makes me really want to add a woodrail to my collection.
totally agreed..on the hunt now but very tough to find in australia..have been so inspired by this thread.
I thought I would add bits to this thread apart from questions as at some point there may be useful bits for others.
So, one thing I have noticed is that every woodrail I have bought has sticky ball lift mech.
Here is what I do. Not rocket science but it works for me.
Put the rod in a drill and then use 000 wire wool and chrome cleaner so it all polishes up.
Then use wire wool inside the beehive.
Afterwards a nice shiny ball lifter but more importantly a nice smooth action as most Gottlieb parts are dry.
Just done this on my Coronation as balls wouldn't come out properly.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:So, I thought this would be real easy to find but heck I can't find info anywhere!
Tips for re-finishing side rails, wooden legs, lock down bars.
Sand down, coat with something, sand, repeat a few times?
I remember reading something recently where satin varnish was used?
Here's what I do first, it has worked well many times but not always depending upon how worn the wood finish is (plus it keeps the original finish):
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PBEa-DzQGA0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Alan
Wow, that technique looks awesome - will definitely try it on some of my games, where needed.
I think one lock down bar has too little lacquer to re-flow but may as well try it before the sand/new lacquer option.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Ok, this is a toughie so not expecting many answers! One will do
So, I have these targets on my Sluggin Champ and they look awful. And they are cut at the top - surely Gottlieb wouldn't do this?
I have these I bought from pbr - they are different.
Last photo shows them more clearly on a game called Stage Coach - not mine.
So, what are these targets and where do I get them??
ThanksIMG_8730.jpg IMG_8729.jpg image-10.jpg
I believe the targets are supposed to be cut at the top. That's how they were modified for some games.
Quoted from jrpinball:I believe the targets are supposed to be cut at the top. That's how they were modified for some games.
Wow, didn't think Gottlieb would do that.
With my Coronation it came with a repro glass ( luckily I found an original later - very luckily! )
Anyway the repro is unlike any I have seen as it feels plasticky on the back - vinyl?
Not Shay or Webb so wonder who did it?
And where little pads were put on back, they have all worn right through to the glass - odd.
Any theories?
So, just adding questions and bits of information as I can't be the only one not understanding a lot of this stuff!
I got stuck on my Coronation as to how to get replays set to levels on cards.
Now it's worth noting most of these old games don't have any charts left on them.
So, here are 2 pictures of the single points plugs. Luckily there was a card.
First plug is 20 points and it goes up to 29 points - but my card shows replays at 30, 31 and 32 points. Turns out ( thanks Dirtflipper
that 30, 31 and 32 are hardwired so automatic.
Last photo is the millions, plugs start at 5 million, going up to 5.9 million. And again replays are hard wired at 6, 6.1, 6.2 and 6.3 million.
This is probably old hat to many of you but I couldn't find what I needed on internet so figured I would add info here as well.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Anyway the repro is unlike any I have seen as it feels plasticky on the back - vinyl?
Not Shay or Webb so wonder who did it?
Probably a BGResto glass as he uses a mylar .... you can read more about how these are done at http://bgresto.com/
Quoted from Shapeshifter:And where little pads were put on back, they have all worn right through to the glass - odd.
I have never seen the little pads on BGResto so possible the person that had the glass made added them??!?!
Quoted from Shapeshifter:There is a lot of black stuff on plungers - would advice be take apart and clean or leave as is?
How much work do you really want to take on?
Ideally, yes, they could be fully taken apart and cleaned (degreased). But unless they're really gunked up and sluggish, you can get by leaving them alone. Less chance of introducing new problems too.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Well, I looked on BGResto site - no sign of it.
Also it had damage and cracks in it so it has a feel of being 20 years plus old.
What is strange is that there are about 8 of these marks on the glass where the pads have melted the ink.IMG_8791.jpg
The coloring and artwork on that repro glass look quite good.
Quoted from DirtFlipper:How much work do you really want to take on?
Ideally, yes, they could be fully taken apart and cleaned (degreased). But unless they're really gunked up and sluggish, you can get by leaving them alone. Less chance of introducing new problems too.
Well, kind of took your advice as took one pop bumper apart but then saw other looked a bit of a nightmare to remove due to ball trough over it so followed 'enemy of good is better' advice and left it alone
What really amazes me is how over engineered these Gottlieb woodrails are. Taking apart 1952 Coronation and the wear is so minimal and the quality of the parts, the brass, the marbled plastics. And how does a 1952 game have this little wear on the pop bumper area? Zero touch up's anywhere.
The story was 2 owners over 60 years - maybe it's true who knows.
Even the pop bumper coil stop has a number stamped into it! And love the brass sleeves.
Anyway look at 1952 GTB quality
IMG_8798.jpg
IMG_8799.jpg
IMG_8793.jpg
IMG_8796.jpg
IMG_8797.jpg
I'm finally getting around to putting wood legs on my 1949 Gottlieb Double Shuffle. I've had metal on it since I got it but finally got around to refinishing some wood ones. I ordered leg bolts from PBR and got these generic hex head bolts which in my opinion are ugly. Anyone know what they used on the woodrails? I think the acorn shape looks nicer. 20150830_083710.jpg
Which ones did you order from PBR? Should be these:
LegBolt-WR
Bolts 3/8 X 16 X 33/8
Bright Finish
(For wood Legs)
$1.00
http://www.pbresource.com/legs.html#bolts
They're a bit longer (due to the thickness of the leg), and should have an acorn head. The originals had a nickel finish, but I think the new ones are zinc.
Not sure if Steve's woodrail leg bolts have an acorn head or not, but I'd think they would.
Yep, thats what I ordered...it was a year ago but I found the receipt. They are the right length but aren't acorned. I have some old rusty ones I can clean up if they should be acorn head.
Quoted from gottguy:Yep, thats what I ordered...it was a year ago but I found the receipt. They are the right length but aren't acorned. I have some old rusty ones I can clean up if they should be acorn head.
That's too bad then. Now I'll have to keep an eye out more carefully for originals to stockpile!
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Back to a question.
1952 game, original coins, brass sleeves etc.
There is a lot of black stuff on plungers - would advice be take apart and clean or leave as is? I get the feeling that people oil parts that shouldn't be oiled.
IMG_8789.jpg
IMG_8790.jpg
I -always- clean out that nasty greezy stuff. Mine always has more texture of sticky goo than grease or oil.
I use degreaser on the plungers then polish them slick with Miniwax paste wax. Same with the non-changeable brass sleeves.
This question is a real general one.
One of my woodrails has a real squeaky score motor, almost sounds like it is whistling.
Now, I know Gottlieb were very precise as to where to add oil and generally it seems people oil where you shouldn't.
Clay is very specific that in general don't lubricate and on score motor only the pad. Never worked on a score motor before and can't even see where the pad is!
So, if you can only lubricate in this one place any tips to solve squeakiness? I doubt oiling the pad bit will solve it... Or any other general tips for optimal score motor functioning?
"Lubricating a Score Motor.
The only part that needs lubricated on Gottlieb score motors is the felt needle bearing pad. This is accessed via a small hole on the bottom of the score motor. Just put a couple of drops of 3-in-1 oil on this pad. No other lubrication is needed! For example, do *not* lubricate the brass gears of the score motor. Brass on brass gears are designed for no lubrication. Same thing with nylon on nylon gears, and nylon on metal gears, use no lubrication. Remember the EM rule of lubrication, if in doubt, do not lubricate." Clay.
Quoted from AlexF:I think there are two screws that go through the bottom of the motor board that hold that era motor in place. The hole for the pad is accessible from underneath once the score motor is loose.
Thanks. So an excuse to take motor board out, clean gently and add oil to the pad. Add to my mega long Winter list
There's an oiling pad on top and bottom. On the woodrails, the score motor isn't hinged, so as Alex notes it needs to be unscrewed from the board (which means the board needs to come out to reach it). But that only gets access to the bottom pad. The top pad is underneath the cam. Sometimes there's an access hole in the cam, which can be lined up to reach the pad.
Quoted from gottguy:Yep, thats what I ordered...it was a year ago but I found the receipt. They are the right length but aren't acorned. I have some old rusty ones I can clean up if they should be acorn head.
I ordered a couple dozen woodrail bolts from Steve/PBR in June, they were the correct length and had the acorn head. I can't believe he would have knowingly sent hardware store bolts.
Thanks guys. I probably would never have figured to look under the motor board.
Thinking of using high grade clock oil as if that is the oil they use for complex clock mechanisms it must be good for a score motor. Maybe.
Quoted from MrArt2u:I ordered a couple dozen woodrail bolts from Steve/PBR in June, they were the correct length and had the acorn head. I can't believe he would have knowingly sent hardware store bolts.
Ditto here. Just double checked to make sure. Drop him a line with the order number and he'll make it right.
Word of warning to those who fancy flattening 50's plastics.
Wow, they are brittle, not only that but they seem sticky on the inside??? So much so that as I was handling and trying to repair a crack I noticed my fingerprints had literally melted through the ink! Enemy of good is better and that bit me today.
Don't know why they are sticky after 60 years though?
But, will leave original plastics exactly as they are in future as they are so more delicate than 60's, 70's.
You can't flatten the 50's playfield plastics (different type of plastic). The typical flattening techniques only work starting with plastics from around 1960 and newer. If you try to flatten 50's plastics, you'll end up with either a mess, or worse plastics. Have to go with repros instead.
Quoted from DirtFlipper:You can't flatten the 50's playfield plastics (different type of plastic). The typical flattening techniques only work starting with plastics from around 1960 and newer. If you try to flatten 50's plastics, you'll end up with either a mess, or worse plastics. Have to go with repros instead.
Wish I had asked first!
Can triple thick go on the back of them to do a touch up?
Haven't done it due to 'sticky' feeling on the back.
And they don't seem responsive to super glue to repair crack ( that I made ). No repros on this game. Wish I had checked first 
What do you do when you need a coil for a relay this old? I have been beating the bushes and can't find what I need. I am thinking of trying to make my own. am I looking in the wrong places, should I wait and hope one show up or try to make one?
Quoted from DirtFlipper:f you try to flatten 50's plastics, you'll end up with either a mess, or worse plastics.
Glad I saw this first. I'd like to try making repro plastics for the 50's game I have.
Also Steve of PB Resource warned me that the art may be on the top instead of bottom with some 50's Williams when I asked him about cleaning them.
Bruce
Wasn't it for a 1939 Daval? I wouldn't be surprised if someone has something in their parts stash. You won't likely find one at any of the parts suppliers. I have a box of early coils. I looked through them and I have some interesting ones but no match to the one you pictured.
You could try Pinball Salvage http://pinballsalvage.com/ or one of the EM parts guys on Mr. Pinball.
Quoted from P2K:Here's what I do first, it has worked well many times but not always depending upon how worn the wood finish is (plus it keeps the original finish):
» YouTube video
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PBEa-DzQGA0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Alan
Tried this first time on a very worn lockdown bar that looked really bad. 15 minutes later it looks loads better! Certainly going to be using this technique again. Here is what I used, with paper towels.
Quoted from PinballFever:Also Steve of PB Resource warned me that the art may be on the top instead of bottom with some 50's Williams when I asked him about cleaning them.
Checked and confirmed the artwork is on top of the PF plastics for my 1953 Grand Champion.
Bruce
Gottlieb quality never ceases to amaze me. Forget playmeters as indicators of condition ( especially 50's as only 4 figures! ) and instead look at certain parts.
I always dismantle and clean pop bumpers and they are a great indicator of the kind of life a game has had.
This is Lovely Lucy 1954. Amazing for 60 years old really and tribute to Gottlieb quality.
I cleaned the silver bit and it is in better condition than any of the 70's games I have done.
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Durham, NC
Bulli
