(Topic ID: 118353)

GENCO Owners Club

By Sheprd

9 years ago


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  • 339 posts
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  • Latest reply 20 days ago by Sheprd
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#51 6 years ago

I unexpectedly joined the Genco club earlier this week, with a rescue that was destined for the side of the road.

It's a 1953 Golden Nugget, cabinet itself is in excellent condition. The door needs some carpentry work in the corners. The playfield is nice but not perfect. The backglass is pretty much trash.

Mercifully, I was able to find a schematic online. Currently, the score motor runs immediately upon turning the machine on, and does not stop. It counts the score reels down to zero, lights go on, etc.

I don't know what the startup sequence should be, so I'm just going to have to muddle around with it until I stumble across whatever switch(es) isn't in the correct position to allow startup.

5 months later
#64 6 years ago
Quoted from Darenm:

Also, theres 6 wires not plugged in at top of back cabinet. Anyone got one that could tell me the order? 2 yellow and 4 green.

Look at the card to the right of the wires-- you connect those wires to correspond to the free balls (or replays?) that you want the machine to give.

11 months later
#83 5 years ago

My second Genco followed home this weekend-- a 1934 Criss-Cross-A-Light. It looked pretty bad at first, but really cleaned up nicely. A few hours of tinkering, and I have it running. Just need to find a shooter assembly.

5 months later
#105 4 years ago
Quoted from Auntyflossie:

Hello. I have just been asked to help repair a Genco Archer. Has anyone a hi res photo of the underside of the playfield and Schematic/wiring diagram please.
Any advice would be welcome.
Thanks Martyn

Unless someone has taken the time to make one themselves, you aren't going to find a schematic for any game of this vintage.

#106 4 years ago

Anybody have a 1940 vintage Genco? I'm working on a Blondie, and I'm struggling a bit with the rewiring of a modern bridge rectifier to get around the original (failed) selenium rectifier. I could use good quality photos or drawing of how yours is wired up.

Another pinsider sent photos of his, but he's also got some strange cement resistor board in that's in line, and I'm unclear on its purpose.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/need-a-bit-of-power-supply-help

#108 4 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Somewhere in the pinrepair site there is some info on this. Years ago it helped me on a Genco Tradewinds.

I've found a couple of bits of information-- the first link details exactly the same issue I'm having. There's no note of successful resolution.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/UdacgKJjNec

The other is a couple paragraphs into this Russ Jensen piece: http://www.pinballcollectorsresource.com/russ_files/trouble2.html

#111 4 years ago

Thank you! A wire by wire accounting would be incredibly helpful.

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#117 4 years ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

I also have a Genco bball game where I replaced the old rectifier with a bridge rectifier. The pics Jappie provided should probably do the trick; however, if you want a different angle or any verification on the specific wiring, just let me know. I, too, put a fuse in-line as a safety precaution (read as, I usually mess something up, so I figured a fuse might limit the damage when I finally flipped the switch)

Might be helpful. I’m a little confused as to why three of his wires go to the rectifier. Headed to the basement shortly to tinker... I’ll report back.

#120 4 years ago

So I hooked mine up the same way as Jappie's, and I have some success to report. I'm not sure I understand *HOW* it works wired this way, but it appears that it does. The ground goes back to the transformer, which doesn't make much sense to me, but I do have 18 (well, a little over 19) volts DC. When I tried to start a game, nothing happened with any of the steppers, but I did briefly have GI... which I had assumed to be 6v, and as a result, those bulbs all released their magic smoke. I have ordered the correct bulbs, and I'll take another crack at it. By manually operating the steppers, I was able to determine the ball count unit, the score unit, and the changeover unit. While I wait for the bulbs to arrive, I'm going to keep cleaning switches and such in the hopes that I stumble across whatever is preventing the game from starting.

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1 month later
#142 4 years ago

A couple of months ago, I made my second foray into the Genco club, when a friend passed along a very high condition 1940 "Blondie" to me.

Now that I've got the bridge rectifier sorted out (another thread... much hair pulling that I'd rather put behind me LOL) I'm on to working on the rest of the game.

The good:
- Scoring stepper was seized up. After quite a bit of elbow grease, I've got that working great.
- The smaller "ratcheting" steppers in the backbox and under the playfield are all working.
- When I coin the game up, the scoring stepper zeroes out and the GI turns on.
- The playfield switches are responsive when hit.

Problems I'm currently having:
- The aforementioned playfield switches-- I can get the changeover unit to change the bumpers as they are hit, but no actual scoring happens.
- The other stepper in the head (the scoring stepper is on the left, there's another on the right- I think it's the match stepper) doesn't do much of anything. I can manipulate it by hand, and I can jumper it with a battery and sort of get it to work, but it does nothing when I try to start a game.
- The tilt relay doesn't pull in and latch at the start of a game, so the game remains in "tilt". I can close the relay by hand (with a small zip tie) and get it to turn the light off, but it doesn't do it on its own.
- In the head, there's a jumper for "regular play" and three individual pins for "free play". All were plugged in when I received the game. When trying to start a game, a coil would lock on. I removed the pins for free play, and the coil no longer locks on. I've looked at the pictures of other machines of this era on IPDB, and none of them seem to have that feature, so I'm not sure how they are SUPPOSED to be.
- There are a couple of other features beyond the match and scoring lights in the backglass. I'm unclear on the "1" and "2" functions, as well as the 1-9 numbers that I can light by hand but have no idea what they are supposed to do in game play.

#143 4 years ago

Sigh... I figured out the tilt relay issue, but now I have no GI, lighting, or playfield switches working. I obviously knocked something loose, but I’ve given up for tonight.

2 months later
#165 4 years ago
Quoted from J_o_n_o:

I took the subway apart and cleaned it. It's all there, mostly. The coin slider is trashed and I need a spring for the ball loading mechanism. Anybody know what kinda battery will work to make the coil fire on this thing?

The type of battery that it was designed for was a screw top 6v. I don't know if they are made anymore, and if they are, they certainly aren't in wide distribution. You can run it on any 6v battery, but I suggest switching to a small power supply- partly for reliability, partly because it's a bit of a pain to take apart the top half of the machine every time you want to change the battery.

1 month later
#167 4 years ago

Anybody have a parts stepper like the one in the photo? Mine was acting flaky, and I noticed that the shoulder bolt was broken. I can't find an exact replacement, and having one machined is expensive. All I need is the bolt- if you have one you can share, please PM me.

Thanks!

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4 weeks later
#173 4 years ago

So I might have learned something today.

For the past few months, I have been working on a Genco Blondie. I've got it up and running, but I was stuck (or so I thought) on one thing... only one color of bumpers scored. When those are hit, the lights switch over to other color bumpers, but they do not score points. So I've been scratching my head trying to figure out why. Then I came across this video:

In the video, he's working on a Genco Seven Up-- same year as my Blondie. His does the same thing... and then I realized what all of those other small lights on the backglass are-- they are lighting up as he hits those targets. I'm not sure what they are *for*, but it does appear that my machine is working correctly after all!

Now I just need to find a center bolt for one of the steppers that is wonky and held together with a normal nut and bolt.

#174 4 years ago
Quoted from Fortytwo:

Hello. I’m starting a genco 400 ish restore. This has been modified. Extra posts and nails. And a decal making it “line up”. A buddy also has a non working one modified the same. Has anyone seen this. And second does anyone have access to a good digital copy of the glass art. I assume the glass is not findable. Most wont know what it is.

I've had its partner- a Golden Nugget, for a couple of years. I've not been successful at getting it to run and score correctly, and can only get it partially through its start up sequence. These were gambling machines, and were surprisingly complicated.

1 month later
#187 4 years ago
Quoted from BWHenson:

I wish I could help but I've never had any luck with any questions or help from this site. I've posted on it quite alot so don't get your hopes up here....

In fairness, there’s basically no documentation for these games. Most folks around here are pretty willing to offer advice on stuff, it’s just that the Genco knowledge base is pretty thin.

2 months later
#207 4 years ago

If you aren’t putting it on location, remove the 110v circuit entirely. It’s unnecessary if you are setting the game to free play.

#210 4 years ago
Quoted from cait001:

It boggles my mind to think of how many years games had high voltage wiring going to their metal coin doors....

Yeah, it’s scary. This one is wooden, but has both contacts exposed on the Jones plug. I’m shocked (pun intended) that this was allowed. I’m guessing that Genco wasn’t putting out underwriters lab approved products!

#215 4 years ago

If yours is like any of mine, the gold relay is going to be of the 3 or 4 that are right next to the reset bar.

#218 4 years ago

Yes, I meant hold relay. I was typing on my phone. Sorry about that! Yours looks very different. Let me see if I can find a picture of mine.

#219 4 years ago

I believe it’s the one closest to the bar, which is a latching relay.
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Edit: don't know why the photo is showing up sideways.

1 week later
#222 3 years ago

Game is working 100%, although I did manually close the hold relay. I will look further into that as we believe it is a timing issue with the switches associated with the reset bar.

Should be on bank with the red wrapped coil on the “left” in my prior photo.

#225 3 years ago
Quoted from Blake:

Your saying the timing issue as far as holding the relay upon entering a coin and pushing in the mech is with the switches on the hold relay? I know its the hold relay is the red coil. I have traced back and identified every wire that goes to the hold relay (some go to the bank relay/some go to the jones plug in the back box/some are to the return/some are power). I also traced back all the switches associated with the reset bar. I can't recall where they all go know but I do have them marked and taped off.
Can you be more specific with what you believe is happening or not happening that is preventing the hold relay from locking after the reset bar transitions back to its rest position?
I have identified two switches that need to be in the closed position in order for the Hold Relay to lock otherwise it just pulls in momentarily. One switch is on the relay bank which is closed by the relay bank bar being reset by the reset bar of the coin mech. The other is one of the many switches on the reset bar.
I then found another switch on the reset bar path that powers the Hold Relay is closed. The trouble is one of the switches that needs to be closed when the power switch is activated doesn't close until after the reset bar is back in its resting or home position.
My assumption is there is another switch in the loop I haven't identified, a bad connection somewhere, a delay thats not happening, or some other timing issue.
The game is fully working however is you manually close the Hold Relay like I have done. And its not the coil because it you close the switch that controls power to the Hold Relay it pulls and locks in place.
This is probably impossible to follow without video or illustrations to help.
Thanks
Blake

Sure. If I recall correctly, one of the switches on that hold relay that connects to the latching relay on the bar is a make/break switch. If that switch isn't in the correct position, the relay only holds momentarily. It drove me batty trying to figure that out on one of my Genco games.

#228 3 years ago
Quoted from Blake:

I will take a closer look. I have spent considerable time on both sets of switches in question and know that they are adjusted to register when the actuator is engaged, but your saying that maybe the make or break is disengaging to soon or late?
Thanks
Blake

Correct.

#230 3 years ago
Quoted from Blake:

Awesome. Thank you very much for the suggestion and I will let you know what I uncover.
How is your woodrail collection looking these days?
Thanks
Blake

There's a half-dozen flipperless and one flippered (three of them are Genco's, to keep it on topic with the thread). All working 100% except for my Chicago Coin Golden Gloves, which has a scoring issue I've been unsuccessful at figuring out (and have spent probably 50 hours trying).

#237 3 years ago

Glad you got it sorted out!

1 month later
#241 3 years ago

On my Gencos of this vintage, that button turns the lights on-- a primitive attract mode.

1 month later
#245 3 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Concerning those balky selenium rectifiers; if when new they delivered 18VDC, then, as they begin to fail, they deliver diminished DC. Is the remainder of that voltage AC? I measured the DC on a Genco machine with an original selenium rectifier, at the free-play coil on the front door. It was a little over 12 volts. I then switched my DMM to AC, and measured around 6 volts. Maybe I'm answering my own question, but is this normal, or just a coincidence?

I think that's exactly what happens... but when they have truly failed, they will arc across the fins. Best bet is to remove them. I struggled to find 18v power supplies, but these seem to run just fine on 12v supplies that are cheap and easy to find.

Quoted from jrpinball:

Also, are any of these Genco games supposed to be equipped with a knocker? This one in particular is an earlier flipper game. When you win a replay, you hardly know it.

I have 4 Gencos from the late 30s to mid 50s. None of them have a knocker or a place for one... but I don't know if that's universal.

3 weeks later
#251 3 years ago

Pmoore66 great post, and thank you. For what it's worth, the AC portion is totally unnecessary-- I replaced mine with a modern DC power supply, and it works fine.

While you're in there, I would strongly suggest removing the 120v lines under the playfield that run to the timer and coin door. They are unnecessary in a home environment, and post a shock risk.

6 months later
#266 3 years ago
Quoted from Deafdumblind:

Just bought a ‘57 Showboat, when I plug it in it automatically starts scoring. In the upper cabinet, the 100,000 relay( 2nd from the top in vertical row along the right) starts firing.

You've most likely got a scoring switch stuck. Look on the playfield for something that has 100k value, then look on the underside of the playfield to see if that switch is stuck in the closed position.

6 months later
#281 2 years ago
Quoted from rvalkenburg:

Struggling with a Genco 400

This is very similar to the issues I'm having with my Golden Nugget, which is an almost identical game. I've had it for a few years, and it's the only game I've not been able to get sorted out. It's stupidly complicated for what it is.

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