(Topic ID: 118353)

GENCO Owners Club


By Sheprd

5 years ago



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  • 242 posts
  • 66 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 36 days ago by JeffRollins
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There are 242 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 5.
#201 4 months ago
Quoted from jsf24:

I believe her estimate to be spot on. They are more art than pinball in most people's opinion.

Cool, thank you as well!

To be clear: I'm not putting any of your estimates in doubt! It's just nice to have a couple of them to have a strong negociation point.

#202 4 months ago

Like, take a look at ebay.com link » Used Gottlieb Marjorie Pinball
Even at just around $100 USD, it lingered unsold for months.

#203 4 months ago
Quoted from cait001:

Complete and working 100% I'd guess $300-350 USD. almost no market for flipperless machines, generally. At least in North America.

Is say 200 to 300 usd. Not much market for flipperless games.

#204 4 months ago
Quoted from cait001:

Complete and working 100% I'd guess $300-350 USD. almost no market for flipperless machines, generally. At least in North America.

The Baseball theme adds a little to that.

1 week later
#205 4 months ago

I have never restored a machine before. I have two Genco machines, South Paw and Big Chief. Both have copper oxide rectifiers; see photo. I have no idea on where the dc comes out of the rectifier. There is 25VAC between A and C and about 9VAC between B and G1 coming out of the transformer. How would I add a new rectifier and what would be the inputs and where would the outputs go?

Tran 2 18 2020 (resized).jpg
3 weeks later
#206 3 months ago

Hey folks,

Working on a very nice Genco Argentine (1941) and was curious what a proper wiring circuit should look like for sending 110 VAC to the coin door. I have rewired the primary side of the transformer from the line cord to the transformer in the following manner:

-Hot from line cord > Distribution block > SPST switch > Fuse > 115 of transformer primary
-Neutral from line cord > Distribution block > Common side of transformer primary
-Ground from line cord > Distribution block > Transformer base > Relay bank base > Rest of metal parts that may get touched with power on

All wiring is now completely isolated from 110 VAC (other then the incoming power cord) when the new switch is powered off. I would like to keep it this way. I would also like to maintain the originality of the game and not bypass the tilt mech or lock/hold relay. This game was also originally manufactured with a timer that would cut power to the primary after a mechanical clock ran out and closed a switch. I plan on reinstalling this timer into the circuit in series on the hot side below the fuse. Does this sound like the proper placement in the circuit?

I realize there are many ways in which these circuits can and were wired based on manufacturer and year. I am interested in knowing proper ways that are both safe and efficiant. Diagrams, descriptions and or pictures are welcomed.

--- Last night I wired it up in the following manner:

-After the switch and fuse on the primary : hot to one side of the coin door jones plug.

-other side of Coin door jones plug comes out of terminal block into timer which is activated when the coin mech is pushed in.

- other side of timer is connected back into hot return leading to input of transformer (115)

Good news is I got it to work. Bad news is I had to manually close switches on both the coin door coil and the lock/hold coil on the playfield.

After doing that the game cycles properly, awards replays properly, scores, tilts, and still will end if timer ends or I power down with switch. And nothing is getting hot.

I really don’t like leaving it like this though as I know I am missing something. And if I do end up leaving those switches closed then I will probably end up disconnecting power to the lock/hold relay on the playfield. I can’t do the same for the coin door coil as it allows replays in the coin mech.

Any ideas? I’ve done a bunch of wiring tracing but maybe it’s time for some more.

Thanks
Blake
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#207 3 months ago

If you aren’t putting it on location, remove the 110v circuit entirely. It’s unnecessary if you are setting the game to free play.

#208 3 months ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

If you aren’t putting it on location, remove the 110v circuit entirely. It’s unnecessary if you are setting the game to free play.

It boggles my mind to think of how many years games had high voltage wiring going to their metal coin doors....

#209 3 months ago
Quoted from Blake:

Hey folks,
Working on a very nice Genco Argentine (1941)

Dave's old one? I got to see it last year when I visited VT. Good luck, great looking machine

#210 3 months ago
Quoted from cait001:

It boggles my mind to think of how many years games had high voltage wiring going to their metal coin doors....

Yeah, it’s scary. This one is wooden, but has both contacts exposed on the Jones plug. I’m shocked (pun intended) that this was allowed. I’m guessing that Genco wasn’t putting out underwriters lab approved products!

#211 3 months ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Yeah, it’s scary. This one is wooden, but has both contacts exposed on the Jones plug. I’m shocked (pun intended) that this was allowed. I’m guessing that Genco wasn’t putting out underwriters lab approved products!

Gottlieb still had high voltage going to the front metal door in 1966! Ask me how I know! *shudders*

#212 3 months ago
Quoted from cait001:

Dave's old one? I got to see it last year when I visited VT. Good luck, great looking machine

Yes it was Dave's. I agree, he did a great job bringing it back to life. Amazed at how well a nearly 80 year old playfield has held up. Dave did a nice job fixing/replacing the pop bumper caps and skirts to keep it looking original.

Thanks
Blake

#213 3 months ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

If you aren’t putting it on location, remove the 110v circuit entirely. It’s unnecessary if you are setting the game to free play.

So I would like to get it back to factory as I really love having folks realize they are putting a nickle in instead of a quarter. It just brings to reality the age of the machine all the more.

Having to work hard for a replay also adds to the experience which I think setting it on freeplay would take away from. Because the game is very simple and basic I feel these elements are essential to the experience. Other games from newer eras not so much.

But fact is that at some point in time this will be on location in a free play arcade so I may have to scrap the 110v at the coin door anyway just for piece of mind. Although I will be running ground to the mech. But until then if I could get it working that would make me feel better about the circuit I installed.

Thanks
Blake

#214 3 months ago

Going to try putting the coin door power and the timer in parallel rather then series, as is depicted in this 1951 Genco Tri-Score schematic. Looks like it might hold some clues as to where to look for my hold relay as well. I see it does tie back into the tilt circuit at....you guessed it, the coin door.

Thanks
Blake

Genco Tri-Score schematic (2)_LI (resized).jpgTri-ScoreMergedScans (resized).jpg
#215 3 months ago

If yours is like any of mine, the gold relay is going to be of the 3 or 4 that are right next to the reset bar.

#216 3 months ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

If yours is like any of mine, the gold relay is going to be of the 3 or 4 that are right next to the reset bar.

what do you mean by gold relay? Do you mean hold relay? If so I know Which one that is. Here is a pick of the relay and of the reset bar and associated switches effected by it.

Thanks
Blake

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#217 3 months ago

There is a total of 8 switches, the timer clock, and the relay bank are all engaged when the reset bar is pushed in.

I’ve wired the coin door in several different manners. All send 110 to the Jones plug at the door but nothing I do pulls in the coil. Both switches are live as well.

Thanks
Blake

#218 3 months ago

Yes, I meant hold relay. I was typing on my phone. Sorry about that! Yours looks very different. Let me see if I can find a picture of mine.

#219 3 months ago

I believe it’s the one closest to the bar, which is a latching relay.
ED826862-B513-49A7-8F8A-F687FF3C4066 (resized).jpeg

Edit: don't know why the photo is showing up sideways.

#220 3 months ago

Okay correction. Lock coil on coin door is working correctly. I keep forgetting that it only pulls in when a replay has been registered.

So basically all the primary wiring is 100% correct and working as it should.

Just need to identify why the lock/hold relay is not engaging. I’ll have to back track. I have most all the wires labeled now.

Thanks
Blake

1 week later
#221 3 months ago

Cleaned up the Argentine and took some pics. Game is working 100%, although I did manually close the hold relay. I will look further into that as we believe it is a timing issue with the switches associated with the reset bar. I still have to restore the front cabinet panel and coin door (someone pryed it open). And have to fill and touchup the nail holes from the previous owners botched attempt at fixing the cracked back panel. Also need to install new leg levelers which will take some extra effort as the new style is not a perfect fit.

I will be making a thread about the restoration efforts made toward this game as the cabinet repair was quite extensive, but thought it would be nice to add some pics here first.

Such a cool piece of history, I'm glad to be able to spend the time bringing it back to life. I was amazed at how vibrant the colors were under all the crud. I was able to remove most of the odd ball markings using Simple Green, Novus 3 and a coat of wax to protect.

Its starting to look pretty nice.

Thanks
Blake

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#222 3 months ago

Game is working 100%, although I did manually close the hold relay. I will look further into that as we believe it is a timing issue with the switches associated with the reset bar.

Should be on bank with the red wrapped coil on the “left” in my prior photo.

#223 3 months ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Should be on bank with the red wrapped coil on the “left” in my prior photo.

Your saying the timing issue as far as holding the relay upon entering a coin and pushing in the mech is with the switches on the hold relay? I know its the hold relay is the red coil. I have traced back and identified every wire that goes to the hold relay (some go to the bank relay/some go to the jones plug in the back box/some are to the return/some are power). I also traced back all the switches associated with the reset bar. I can't recall where they all go know but I do have them marked and taped off.

Can you be more specific with what you believe is happening or not happening that is preventing the hold relay from locking after the reset bar transitions back to its rest position?

I have identified two switches that need to be in the closed position in order for the Hold Relay to lock otherwise it just pulls in momentarily. One switch is on the relay bank which is closed by the relay bank bar being reset by the reset bar of the coin mech. The other is one of the many switches on the reset bar.

I then found another switch on the reset bar path that powers the Hold Relay is closed. The trouble is one of the switches that needs to be closed when the power switch is activated doesn't close until after the reset bar is back in its resting or home position.

My assumption is there is another switch in the loop I haven't identified, a bad connection somewhere, a delay thats not happening, or some other timing issue.

The game is fully working however is you manually close the Hold Relay like I have done. And its not the coil because it you close the switch that controls power to the Hold Relay it pulls and locks in place.

This is probably impossible to follow without video or illustrations to help.

Thanks
Blake

#224 3 months ago

This is the first time I have noticed the "Not inc." after the Genco MFG Co. name. Would love to know the back story on that...

#225 3 months ago
Quoted from Blake:

Your saying the timing issue as far as holding the relay upon entering a coin and pushing in the mech is with the switches on the hold relay? I know its the hold relay is the red coil. I have traced back and identified every wire that goes to the hold relay (some go to the bank relay/some go to the jones plug in the back box/some are to the return/some are power). I also traced back all the switches associated with the reset bar. I can't recall where they all go know but I do have them marked and taped off.
Can you be more specific with what you believe is happening or not happening that is preventing the hold relay from locking after the reset bar transitions back to its rest position?
I have identified two switches that need to be in the closed position in order for the Hold Relay to lock otherwise it just pulls in momentarily. One switch is on the relay bank which is closed by the relay bank bar being reset by the reset bar of the coin mech. The other is one of the many switches on the reset bar.
I then found another switch on the reset bar path that powers the Hold Relay is closed. The trouble is one of the switches that needs to be closed when the power switch is activated doesn't close until after the reset bar is back in its resting or home position.
My assumption is there is another switch in the loop I haven't identified, a bad connection somewhere, a delay thats not happening, or some other timing issue.
The game is fully working however is you manually close the Hold Relay like I have done. And its not the coil because it you close the switch that controls power to the Hold Relay it pulls and locks in place.
This is probably impossible to follow without video or illustrations to help.
Thanks
Blake

Sure. If I recall correctly, one of the switches on that hold relay that connects to the latching relay on the bar is a make/break switch. If that switch isn't in the correct position, the relay only holds momentarily. It drove me batty trying to figure that out on one of my Genco games.

#226 3 months ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Sure. If I recall correctly, one of the switches on that hold relay that connects to the latching relay on the bar is a make/break switch. If that switch isn't in the correct position, the relay only holds momentarily. It drove me batty trying to figure that out on one of my Genco games.

I will take a closer look. I have spent considerable time on both sets of switches in question and know that they are adjusted to register when the actuator is engaged, but your saying that maybe the make or break is disengaging to soon or late?

Thanks
Blake

#227 3 months ago
Quoted from Sheprd:

This is the first time I have noticed the "Not inc." after the Genco MFG Co. name. Would love to know the back story on that...

My uncle arcyallen noticed that too. I only took the photo because I love how the balls sit on top of the PF after a game has been played. Counterintuitive to SS pinheads and alike.

Thanks
Blake

#228 3 months ago
Quoted from Blake:

I will take a closer look. I have spent considerable time on both sets of switches in question and know that they are adjusted to register when the actuator is engaged, but your saying that maybe the make or break is disengaging to soon or late?
Thanks
Blake

Correct.

#229 3 months ago

Awesome. Thank you very much for the suggestion and I will let you know what I uncover.

How is your woodrail collection looking these days?

Thanks
Blake

#230 3 months ago
Quoted from Blake:

Awesome. Thank you very much for the suggestion and I will let you know what I uncover.
How is your woodrail collection looking these days?
Thanks
Blake

There's a half-dozen flipperless and one flippered (three of them are Genco's, to keep it on topic with the thread). All working 100% except for my Chicago Coin Golden Gloves, which has a scoring issue I've been unsuccessful at figuring out (and have spent probably 50 hours trying).

#231 3 months ago
Quoted from Sheprd:

This is the first time I have noticed the "Not inc." after the Genco MFG Co. name. Would love to know the back story on that...

As can be seen from these letters, sometime between August and November 1940, Genco went from 'Genco Incorporated' to 'Genco Manufacturing Co. Not Inc.' No idea why, but would love to know.

genco-40080140 dude ranch (resized).jpggenco-40110140 metro (resized).jpg
#232 3 months ago

What's a 1951 stop and go worth

#233 3 months ago
Quoted from Pinball7:

What's a 1951 stop and go worth

No idea but it looks like a really cool machine!
Condition and completeness will affect the price I'm sure.

Thanks
Blake

#234 3 months ago
Quoted from tomcons:

As can be seen from these letters, sometime between August and November 1940, Genco went from 'Genco Incorporated' to 'Genco Manufacturing Co. Not Inc.' No idea why, but would love to know.[quoted image][quoted image]

These letters are cool, thanks for sharing! Do you have more of those?

#235 3 months ago
Quoted from Jappie:

These letters are cool, thanks for sharing! Do you have more of those?

https://tokensonly.com/2017/05/24/genco-incorporated-a-glimpse-at-the-past/

#236 3 months ago

Solved the issue with the hold relay. It was indeed a timing issue. Although it wasn’t with the hold relay switches.

Turned out to be with the switches on the reset bar.

The top switch circled in red needed to be closed before the switch circled in blue was released.

What a pain in the ass lol.

Thanks again for your help. Now it’s onto refurbishing the coin door.

Blake

E2AF8AC5-662A-4607-A1EF-E27005ED829C (resized).jpeg
#237 3 months ago

Glad you got it sorted out!

#238 3 months ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Glad you got it sorted out!

Thanks again for the help.
Blake

1 month later
#239 37 days ago

I also have this post under restoration questions, hoping it may be found by the right people. Hope that's O.K.

Hi, I am new to this site. I have received a couple of really good tips from members so far. I need to ask some more stuff about older machines.

1. What is the button under the front side of the machine to the right of the coin slot for, resetting games?
2. I know the 120AC can be jumped out from the front door. What are the 2 switches in the door by the coin slot for?
Also, I trip relays and solenoids to get scores to light as a test, since the playing field switches do nothing yet. When I have many lit and then hit the reset bar back at the coin slot area, I blow the fuse to my bridge rectifier. Any idea why? I am trying to figure which bulbs need replacement, but also am working towards understanding how to make the rest work.
3. Under the board one of the solenoids is always on when I have power applied (the relays are all DC). Is this supposed to be so? I saw somewhere, but can't remember where, that one of the relays is always on when the game is alive.
4. If it is always alive with power on, then do I want to bypass the 120 and make it always on, or should I leave the 120 at the door and the timer?

Attached are some pics. The fuse and bridge rectifier are replacing the selenium rectifier.
In the last picture, what is R.Play if that's what it says, and the other printed item by these jumpers?

The machine is really clean I think. I have cleaned the play field and fortunately all the bumpers and lights are there.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

20200525_193605_resized_2 (resized).jpg20200525_193613_resized_2 (resized).jpg20200525_194441_resized_2 (resized).jpg20200530_115322_resized (resized).jpgWhat is this for (resized).jpg
#240 37 days ago
Quoted from JeffRollins:I also have this post under restoration questions, hoping it may be found by the right people. Hope that's O.K.
Hi, I am new to this site. I have received a couple of really good tips from members so far. I need to ask some more stuff about older machines.
1. What is the button under the front side of the machine to the right of the coin slot for, resetting games?
2. I know the 120AC can be jumped out from the front door. What are the 2 switches in the door by the coin slot for?
Also, I trip relays and solenoids to get scores to light as a test, since the playing field switches do nothing yet. When I have many lit and then hit the reset bar back at the coin slot area, I blow the fuse to my bridge rectifier. Any idea why? I am trying to figure which bulbs need replacement, but also am working towards understanding how to make the rest work.
3. Under the board one of the solenoids is always on when I have power applied (the relays are all DC). Is this supposed to be so? I saw somewhere, but can't remember where, that one of the relays is always on when the game is alive.
4. If it is always alive with power on, then do I want to bypass the 120 and make it always on, or should I leave the 120 at the door and the timer?
Attached are some pics. The fuse and bridge rectifier are replacing the selenium rectifier.
In the last picture, what is R.Play if that's what it says, and the other printed item by these jumpers?
The machine is really clean I think. I have cleaned the play field and fortunately all the bumpers and lights are there.
Thanks in advance,
Jeff[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Think I already answered question #1 in my pm to you, no?

For reference:

I think the button on the lower cabinet knocks off the credits on the machine. See, these old machines were used as gambling machines back in the day. In many locations, accumulating credits would mean the bar tender or shop owner would pay you a certain amount of money (or cigarettes or candy or whatever) once you had finished playing. After such a payout, the knockoff button would 'reset' the machine's credits for the next player.

#241 37 days ago

On my Gencos of this vintage, that button turns the lights on-- a primitive attract mode.

#242 36 days ago

You did Jappie and thanks. I had just copied and pasted the entire post to the other group as it had other questions.

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