(Topic ID: 118353)

GENCO Owners Club

By Sheprd

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 303 posts
  • 84 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 27 days ago by oldcarz
  • Topic is favorited by 37 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

20210329_153827 (resized).jpg
42r  Genco Apron Card print (resized).jpg
20220329_121753 (resized).jpg
20220329_121815 (resized).jpg
20220329_121822 (resized).jpg
9DDD1474-FA8F-460C-AF65-E1B89F11E080 (resized).jpeg
11F073B8-D67E-4FF4-8DD1-64F5E14D24B8 (resized).jpeg
20220201_183011 (resized).jpg
20220202_123711 (resized).jpg
20220201_182128 (resized).jpg
20220121_145136 (resized).jpg
20220201_182813 (resized).jpg
20220121_145035 (resized).jpg
Gencogi joe full (resized).jpg
genco gi joe (resized).jpg
genco gi joe playfield (resized).jpg

There are 303 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 7.
#101 3 years ago
IMG_20181212_155952325 (resized).jpg
#102 3 years ago

there are now 3 different Genco posts up at Shapeways

https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace?type=product&q=genco+pinballgenco

#103 3 years ago

Very nice! Thanks for posting!

1 month later
#104 3 years ago

Hello. I have just been asked to help repair a Genco Archer. Has anyone a hi res photo of the underside of the playfield and Schematic/wiring diagram please.
Any advice would be welcome.
Thanks Martyn

#105 3 years ago
Quoted from Auntyflossie:

Hello. I have just been asked to help repair a Genco Archer. Has anyone a hi res photo of the underside of the playfield and Schematic/wiring diagram please.
Any advice would be welcome.
Thanks Martyn

Unless someone has taken the time to make one themselves, you aren't going to find a schematic for any game of this vintage.

#106 3 years ago

Anybody have a 1940 vintage Genco? I'm working on a Blondie, and I'm struggling a bit with the rewiring of a modern bridge rectifier to get around the original (failed) selenium rectifier. I could use good quality photos or drawing of how yours is wired up.

Another pinsider sent photos of his, but he's also got some strange cement resistor board in that's in line, and I'm unclear on its purpose.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/need-a-bit-of-power-supply-help

#107 3 years ago

Somewhere in the pinrepair site there is some info on this. Years ago it helped me on a Genco Tradewinds.

#108 3 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Somewhere in the pinrepair site there is some info on this. Years ago it helped me on a Genco Tradewinds.

I've found a couple of bits of information-- the first link details exactly the same issue I'm having. There's no note of successful resolution.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/UdacgKJjNec

The other is a couple paragraphs into this Russ Jensen piece: http://www.pinballcollectorsresource.com/russ_files/trouble2.html

#109 3 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I've found a couple of bits of information-- the first link details exactly the same issue I'm having. There's no note of successful resolution.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/UdacgKJjNec
The other is a couple paragraphs into this Russ Jensen piece: http://www.pinballcollectorsresource.com/russ_files/trouble2.html

I <3 the old school links...

I also enjoy your tastes drsfmd...I have to meet up with you IRL at the next Saratoga show. I was at the first one, but missed last year due to van trouble...

Sean

#110 3 years ago

Here's some pics of how it's done on my 1940 Big League. Works great. Not sure if I like the placement of the bridge though.

I hope the pictures clear things up a little. If not, I'll gladly describe which wire goes where. Not now though. It's been a long but fulfilling day of pin hauling and I'm off to bed.

20190511_001823 (resized).jpg20190511_001924 (resized).jpg20190511_001958 (resized).jpg20190511_002013 (resized).jpg
#111 3 years ago

Thank you! A wire by wire accounting would be incredibly helpful.

B53BD7B1-C9B7-40BD-B5A9-9BCBFD7CC714 (resized).jpeg
#112 3 years ago

Will definitely do, when I'm near the machine again.

Thought it might be good to have a copy of the bit on Pinrepair about this problem here in the group too, for future reference.

From Pinrepair.com:
Genco's DC Dilemia.
Unlike everyone else, Genco used DC voltage to power all their coils at about 18 volts. To do this, they use a selenium rectifier to convert the transformer's AC voltage to DC volts. This style of rectifier was used before the invention of silicon diodes. Selenium rectifiers are notorious for failing gradually over time, and then dying suddenly. It is not a matter of "if" a selenium rectifier will fail, but rather "when" it will fail. Selenium rectifiers fail because they develop high, internal series resistance, resulting in lower bias or "C-supply" voltage. Their forward voltage drop increases to the point that they no longer convert AC voltage to DC. As this happens, the increased resistance causes the rectifier to heat up, which eventually causes it to burn. When this happens, it emits a highly pungent and nasty odor, and could start a fire (selenium rectifiers probably reached their peak in TV sets of the 1950's). Nowadays their use would probably be restricted in consumer products because of the toxicity of selenium.

The biggest symtom of a failing Genco selenium rectifier are coils that are "weak". For example, the classic case is the bell solenoid just doesn't have enough juice to ring the bell. The bell plunger goes up, but it doesn't strike the bell with enough force to actually sound the bell. Or when the score reels or continuous units reset, they do it lethargically.

The selenium rectifier should be replaced with a conventional bridge rectifier. Radio Shack sells a 25 amp 50 volt bridge with lugs that works just fine, though I personally use a 35 amp 200 volt bridge (because I already have them around for solid state games and their power supplies).

The new silicon bridge is easy to hook up to the Genco transformer. Just remove the two top outside green wires going from the transformer to the selenium rectifier, and connect them on the two AC lugs of the bridge (the bridge's AC lugs are diagonal to each other, and usually at least one is marked "AC".) One of these AC transformer leads should go through a 10 amp fuse (which would blow if the new silicon bridge shorts, which can and does happen.)

Then the upper solo output wire from the selenium rectifier (which has a cloth wire going to the harness) should then be connected to the negative lug on the silicon bridge. The "+" (positive) silicon bridge lug is then connected to the transformer's top center lead, which also connectes to the old selenium rectifier (cut the connection to the old rectifier though.) After mounting the wires, put a wood screw through the hole in the center of the silicon bridge, and screw it to the wood panel. Leave the original (and now disconnected) selenium rectifier there, for that "original" look.
genco1 (resized).jpg
A 1954 Genco 2 Player Basketball which has been converted from using the original Selenium rectifier, to a new silicon bridge rectifier. Note the 10 amp fuse installed too, on one AC lead going to the silicon bridge.

#113 3 years ago

Alright, let's see if this helps. The wires that come out of my transformer have heat shrink tubing around them, which will not make it easier to see. But here goes.

This first picture is taken with the playfield in upright position. Camera facing up from inside the cabinet.
The orange wire in the foreground that comes from the transformer connects to the left lug of the bridge in the third picture of this post.
pic 1

This second picture is taken with the playfield in upright position, camera facing down.
The upper transformer lug in the foreground of the picture connects to a greenish wire which goes into the wire harness of the playfield, this is original.
The middle lug with the white/purple wire connects to the lower lug (plus) of the bridge in the third picture.
The lower lug with the orange wire in the foreground connects to a 10A fuse, which then connects to the right lug of the bridge.
pic 2

That leaves us with the yellowish wire that comes from the upper lug (minus) of the bridge. This goes into a white wire that goes into in the wire harness.
pic 3

#114 3 years ago

I have a Tally Ho and Formation. Both working.

Years ago fixed a Formation for a long time collector. It was his very
first pin. Had never seen one before this. Two weeks later found one
at a show for a reasonable price. Good karma sometimes pays off.
Wish the BG was in better shape (lots of flaking) but just feel lucky
to have it.
Steve

#115 3 years ago

I also have a Genco bball game where I replaced the old rectifier with a bridge rectifier. The pics Jappie provided should probably do the trick; however, if you want a different angle or any verification on the specific wiring, just let me know. I, too, put a fuse in-line as a safety precaution (read as, I usually mess something up, so I figured a fuse might limit the damage when I finally flipped the switch)

#116 3 years ago

How much fun are the Genco stand-up pins like "400"? I missed out on one of those a couple years ago on craigslist and don't know much about them. Any online info?

#117 3 years ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

I also have a Genco bball game where I replaced the old rectifier with a bridge rectifier. The pics Jappie provided should probably do the trick; however, if you want a different angle or any verification on the specific wiring, just let me know. I, too, put a fuse in-line as a safety precaution (read as, I usually mess something up, so I figured a fuse might limit the damage when I finally flipped the switch)

Might be helpful. I’m a little confused as to why three of his wires go to the rectifier. Headed to the basement shortly to tinker... I’ll report back.

#118 3 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Might be helpful. I’m a little confused as to why three of his wires go to the rectifier. Headed to the basement shortly to tinker... I’ll report back.

Let me know if I can help. I may have some notes I took when I did it...I'll look for those as well

#119 3 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Might be helpful. I’m a little confused as to why three of his wires go to the rectifier. Headed to the basement shortly to tinker... I’ll report back.

Please do! I'm curious now if mine is actually hooked up the way it should be!

#120 3 years ago

So I hooked mine up the same way as Jappie's, and I have some success to report. I'm not sure I understand *HOW* it works wired this way, but it appears that it does. The ground goes back to the transformer, which doesn't make much sense to me, but I do have 18 (well, a little over 19) volts DC. When I tried to start a game, nothing happened with any of the steppers, but I did briefly have GI... which I had assumed to be 6v, and as a result, those bulbs all released their magic smoke. I have ordered the correct bulbs, and I'll take another crack at it. By manually operating the steppers, I was able to determine the ball count unit, the score unit, and the changeover unit. While I wait for the bulbs to arrive, I'm going to keep cleaning switches and such in the hopes that I stumble across whatever is preventing the game from starting.

bridge (resized).jpg
#121 3 years ago

Well, I tried to take a couple of pics, without removing the entire board out, since that is a real pain. Anyhow, I found a before pic, which shows the wiring to the original selenium rectifier and pics (as best I could) of the bridge rectifier.

IMG_4008 (resized).JPGIMG_5794 (resized).JPGIMG_5800 (resized).JPGIMG_5804 (resized).JPGIMG_5808 (resized).JPG
#122 3 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

So I hooked mine up the same way as Jappie's, and I have some success to report. I'm not sure I understand *HOW* it works wired this way, but it appears that it does. The ground goes back to the transformer, which doesn't make much sense to me, but I do have 18 (well, a little over 19) volts DC. When I tried to start a game, nothing happened with any of the steppers, but I did briefly have GI... which I had assumed to be 6v, and as a result, those bulbs all released their magic smoke. I have ordered the correct bulbs, and I'll take another crack at it. By manually operating the steppers, I was able to determine the ball count unit, the score unit, and the changeover unit. While I wait for the bulbs to arrive, I'm going to keep cleaning switches and such in the hopes that I stumble across whatever is preventing the game from starting.
[quoted image]

Cool to hear that it worked! And too bad to hear about your GI :/ Hope you get it fully working soon. These prewar oldies are really cool when they play like they should.

#123 3 years ago

I think my Genco Hi-Fly might still be running on its Selenium rectifier. When I modify that to use a Bridge rectifier, I'll make a Youtube short on it. Right now, the info on this simple mod is just too hard to obtain.

#124 3 years ago

Adding to my forums!
People here might also be interested in the pre-war club forum: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pre-war-club-1930-1939

#125 3 years ago

Look for the guy that was restoring a Argentine he was wondering how to hook up his bridge rec and someone had pictures of theirs I have four different Gencos...2 Captain Kidd 1 Argentine 1 Victory.. I have my one C/K. Playing and am restoring my Argentine. I've learned a lot about them by trial and error but was able to wire in my bridge rec by those pictures posted on the restoring the Argentine on our site. His handle was toyguy I think or something like that.

IMG_20190510_160557258 (resized).jpg
#126 3 years ago
IMG_20190507_151024026 (resized).jpgIMG_20190507_151038828 (resized).jpg
#127 3 years ago
Quoted from BWHenson:

Look for the guy that was restoring a Argentine he was wondering how to hook up his bridge rec and someone had pictures of theirs I have four different Gencos...2 Captain Kidd 1 Argentine 1 Victory.. I have my one C/K. Playing and am restoring my Argentine. I've learned a lot about them by trial and error but was able to wire in my bridge rec by those pictures posted on the restoring the Argentine on our site. His handle was toyguy I think or something like that.
[quoted image]

Thanks! I think we've solved this now though.

Great looking Argentine!

1 week later
#128 3 years ago

Does anyone know what size/number and type of ball a Genco Golden Nugget takes? I just bought one without any balls. From videos I suspect catalin balls 1", but do not know for sure.

It certainly doesn't appear that they use a steel ball.

#129 3 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Does anyone know what size/number and type of ball a Genco Golden Nugget takes? I just bought one without any balls. From videos I suspect catalin balls 1", but do not know for sure.
It certainly doesn't appear that they use a steel ball.

Someone suggested these in an earlier thread. https://www.moonmarble.com/p-1391-opaque-red-1.aspx

#131 3 years ago

Thanks Dennis! That looks like it'll work!

#132 3 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Does anyone know what size/number and type of ball a Genco Golden Nugget takes? I just bought one without any balls.

nice! Get ready for some exciting EYE-LEVEL ACTION!
A perfect machine for you, another coin-hungry bingo variant.

#133 3 years ago
Quoted from cait001:

bingo variant.

Hey, there's a flipper on this one! Definitely not a gambling device.

#134 3 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Thanks Dennis! That looks like it'll work!

Someone in another thread posted a link to this company that makes balls out of a resin type product that could be used as replacement balls for games like Gtb. Rack-A-Ball etc.

They do have 1" balls. 16 bucks for ten so might be worth a shot Nick. ebay.com link: Delrin bearing balls

#135 3 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

Hey, there's a flipper on this one! Definitely not a gambling device.

I feel bad for the suckers enticed by the 400 bonus credits if all numbers are lit.
Assuming the center "special" hole does not return your ball, and modeling purely random results, the odds of hitting 12 unique numbers are something like...
12/13 * 11/13 * ... * 1/13 =~ 0.00002056
or approx 1 in 50,000

I'm sure that some flipper skill and plunging prowess can improve that, but only so much.

Mind you, you'd only pursue the full 12 if you had 6 unique numbers on your first coin. Each ball past six is an extra coin, but the odds at that point are more around 0.000149, or 3 in 20000.

Curious if payouts from both colours awarded, or only the highest? like if I had 1-2-3 green and 1-2-3-4-5 red, am I getting 12 or 15 replays?

Oh and just for the fun of it, let's do the odds of getting 1 through 6 of the same colour on the FIRST COIN to earn those 100 bonus credits.
12/13 * 5/13 * 4/13 ... * 1/13 =~ 0.000298334 or approx 3 in 10000

bleak bleak bleak

#136 3 years ago
Quoted from DennisDodel:

Someone in another thread posted a link to this company that makes balls out of a resin type product that could be used as replacement balls for games like Gtb. Rack-A-Ball etc.

They do have 1" balls. 16 bucks for ten so might be worth a shot Nick.

I am speaking with someone who has had a few original sets and they confirmed that they are glass in Golden Nugget. They said that they are not opaque, and came in either orange or red. I went ahead and ordered a set of red marbles. I would imagine the play would be 'bouncier' with Delrin, but could be wrong (and frequently am - so feel free to correct me)!

Quoted from cait001:

I feel bad for the suckers enticed by the 400 bonus credits if all numbers are lit.

Hey! I resemble that remark...

There is no plunge on this game, instead a ball is conveyed to the top of the game via a cloth belt - pretty neat!

I've never played one of these, but I'll let you know if your math holds up once I have it working. I don't know if EBs are guaranteed, for example.

I do know that there are three tilts in the game (two lift ball roll tilts and a pendulum in the center of those), so they were pretty serious about preventing cheating.

#137 3 years ago
Quoted from bingopodcast:

I don't know if EBs are guaranteed, for example.

from ipdb: "Buy-back feature allows up to 6 extra balls at 1 coin per ball."
so I assume you're just buying them. See how easy it is? Almost a guaranteed win! Just try one more ball...

I'm curious about the Special behaviour.
"1 replay through Center Special Lane when lit. This lane lites only after an extra ball is played or immediately following a payout on first coin."
That makes sense, but I wonder if it stays on, or goes off after you play that next ball.

will have to check schematics later: https://www.ipdb.org/files/1054/Genco_1953_Golden_Nugget_Schematic_Diagram_final_version_continuous.pdf

#138 3 years ago
Quoted from cait001:

See how easy it is?

That is too easy!

Quoted from cait001:

will have to check schematics later:

At a glance, I didn't see anything that would shut it off until next game, assuming a constant feed through the motor for the M relay. I didn't have a chance to see if the motor turns on EB play.

#139 3 years ago

give the location of the special hole I will assume 2/13 chances of hitting it just to be generous and/or acknowledge the bell-curve distribution of the layout.
A player will have received a free game after 1-6 extra balls/coins 63% of the time! Who's going to walk away from a free game? Might as well try one's luck again...
So, a very smart position and setup for the extra ball.

#140 2 years ago

I picked up a nice '49 Rip Snorter at the Allentown Show. Very good condition overall -- backglass, playfield, plastics, cabinet. Mostly working.
I say 'mostly working', because someone at some point has removed the 3" toothed gear from the 100,000 stepper, along with the contact pins as well as the bell clapper arm. See pics. I believe these parts are fairly common to Genco pins, so hopefully someone has a 100,000 stepper that they'd be able to sell.
While I'm in hoping-land, looking for a '48 Trade Winds parts game.
Any help greatly appreciated.

20190504_144335 (resized).jpg20190504_144557 (resized).jpg20190515_151817 (resized).jpgbackbox annot (resized).jpgthis backbox (resized).jpg
#141 2 years ago

What are the rules like for Punch? Any interesting dynamic scoring? Or is it like Bumper, and each hit is worth the same points, that's it?

2 weeks later
#142 2 years ago

A couple of months ago, I made my second foray into the Genco club, when a friend passed along a very high condition 1940 "Blondie" to me.

Now that I've got the bridge rectifier sorted out (another thread... much hair pulling that I'd rather put behind me LOL) I'm on to working on the rest of the game.

The good:
- Scoring stepper was seized up. After quite a bit of elbow grease, I've got that working great.
- The smaller "ratcheting" steppers in the backbox and under the playfield are all working.
- When I coin the game up, the scoring stepper zeroes out and the GI turns on.
- The playfield switches are responsive when hit.

Problems I'm currently having:
- The aforementioned playfield switches-- I can get the changeover unit to change the bumpers as they are hit, but no actual scoring happens.
- The other stepper in the head (the scoring stepper is on the left, there's another on the right- I think it's the match stepper) doesn't do much of anything. I can manipulate it by hand, and I can jumper it with a battery and sort of get it to work, but it does nothing when I try to start a game.
- The tilt relay doesn't pull in and latch at the start of a game, so the game remains in "tilt". I can close the relay by hand (with a small zip tie) and get it to turn the light off, but it doesn't do it on its own.
- In the head, there's a jumper for "regular play" and three individual pins for "free play". All were plugged in when I received the game. When trying to start a game, a coil would lock on. I removed the pins for free play, and the coil no longer locks on. I've looked at the pictures of other machines of this era on IPDB, and none of them seem to have that feature, so I'm not sure how they are SUPPOSED to be.
- There are a couple of other features beyond the match and scoring lights in the backglass. I'm unclear on the "1" and "2" functions, as well as the 1-9 numbers that I can light by hand but have no idea what they are supposed to do in game play.

#143 2 years ago

Sigh... I figured out the tilt relay issue, but now I have no GI, lighting, or playfield switches working. I obviously knocked something loose, but I’ve given up for tonight.

1 week later
#144 2 years ago

I posted this in the EM tech subforum. Since it relates to Genco basketball, I thought it made sense to post here and see if someone may have the answer.
Thanks
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/test-your-skill-reading-schematics-genco-bball#post-5069182

#145 2 years ago

I'm looking for a coin return "shoot?" For my 1954 genco lucky 7. It is a 10cent game.
I'd take one in any condition even if a little different.

20190624_105112 (resized).jpg
#146 2 years ago

Just picked up a decent 1940 Genco Big Town at the Pintastic show this past weekend down in Sturbridge, MA, along with a 1948 Williams Tucson. Pictures of the Big Town to follow once I get her moved downstairs and set up. She mostly works but looks to have some scoring issues, as the Lit Lane scoring multiplier seems to be either non-functional or highly erratic. It occasionally fails to deliver all 5 balls smoothly to the lift also, but a good whack on the side usually clears that up some I'm hopeful some cleaning and adjustment will take care of that. She played all weekend at the show - more than could be said for many of the newer solid-state games

#147 2 years ago

Photo, as promised.

Tuscon (resized).JPG

Just got her assembled. Haven't tested yet after the long ride from MA. Tomorrow we'll see what else broke

#148 2 years ago

Got some glass-off testing done on the Big Town today. Determined that one thing I thought was an error was actually a design feature. The game provides a 1000 point bonus for every rollover lane made when the lighted indicator below them, numbered 1-4, is lit. What it doesn't say is that these must be done "in order", such that if you make number 3, for example, you will get no bonus for it until you also make number 1 and number 2. Once I understood that, I could see that the scoring was working fine.

There are a series of lights, 1-10, in the center tower building on the backglass. I've no idea what they do game-wise but I've identified the mini-stepper that lights them. Its got one bad socket at number 8 but the lights otherwise work as I step the unit manually. Each of the 1-5 rollover lanes is supposed to advance that light but they don't. so I need to look into that. Outside of the usual suspects, like some flaky sockets, etc. the only remaining puzzle is the wholly disconnected credit unit. Neither coil is connected, so it never does any credit/replay handling. It has a note stuck to it that this was done for free play but this makes no sense to me as the coin slide is rigged so it just always works, coin or not. That's the only way the game knows to start a game so I'm not sure why you'd disable the credit unit. Stepping the credit unit by hand does light an occasional credit lamp so there may just be a lot of dead bulbs there. I've got #46 and #63 bulbs coming in for replacements.

Outside of that stuff she's in pretty good shape for approaching 80.

#149 2 years ago

Nice catch! Beautiful machine.

Should you need any help figuring out the scoring mechanics, let me know. My 1940 Big League has exactly the same playfield layout, and probably exactly the same ruleset as well.

20190703_091735 (resized).jpg
#150 2 years ago

That’s a beauty too!

If you have any insight as to how your machine scores runs, that would be great, as that appears to be exactly the same function as my tower windows.

If you roll over the 1 lane, I bet it lights, right? If you then roll over it again do you gain a run, with none of the other lanes lit?

What does gaining runs do? Does it increase scoring in some way, or is it a secondary way to earn credits? I have a selectable patch panel in the backbox that allows plugging in wires, but no clue yet what that actually does.

Dave

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 85.00
Gameroom - Decorations
The Flipper Room
Hey modders!
Your shop name here
There are 303 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 7.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, become a Pinside+ member!