(Topic ID: 98391)

1951 Genco Hits and Runs


By dtown

5 years ago



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  • 67 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by jodini
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There are 67 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 5 years ago

My father bought a 1951 Genco Hits and Runs for $350.00. It works but the coil voltage is low and nothing has any "pop" to it. Backglass has some flaking. The large plastic on the left side of the playfield had melted some at one time. There are two players that spin around at the top. Are either of them original? He wants me to shop it but I'm curious as to its value as it is. According to ipdb there were 490 made and, it's a baseball theme and they're usually popular but I don't know if it's worth plugging the time in or moving it along to someone that might want it more. Located in SE Pa.

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#2 5 years ago

Either of these guys original?

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#3 5 years ago

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#4 5 years ago
Quoted from dtown:

Either of these guys original?

Judging from the promotional photo, it looks like they are (or at least could be):
http://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=3146&picno=58742&zoom=1

#5 5 years ago

I don't if it's worth keeping, but you should at least spend the $5 and 15 minutes it takes to replace the original selenium rectifier with a modern one from Radio Shack. It'll instantly cure your low voltage problems and make everything work better than it has for decades. It should be a snappy little game once the low voltage problem is fixed.

#6 5 years ago

I'd probably buy it if I saw it for $350.

#7 5 years ago

If your Dad wanted it $350 is a small price to pay!

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from cjmiller:

I don't if it's worth keeping, but you should at least spend the $5 and 15 minutes it takes to replace the original selenium rectifier with a modern one from Radio Shack. It'll instantly cure your low voltage problems and make everything work better than it has for decades. It should be a snappy little game once the low voltage problem is fixed.

Leave the old one in place for looks. Put the silicon one near it and just move the wires.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from dtown:

Either of these guys original?

The one on the right is original. The left one isn't. See http://www.pinrepair.com/baseball/ghitrun.htm

JimDinTN

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from cjmiller:

I don't if it's worth keeping, but you should at least spend the $5 and 15 minutes it takes to replace the original selenium rectifier with a modern one from Radio Shack. It'll instantly cure your low voltage problems and make everything work better than it has for decades. It should be a snappy little game once the low voltage problem is fixed.

Yes. I had seen a Genco repair on Clay's pinballninja site that details rerouting the ac/dc conversion with a new rectifier. And I would never get rid of the old one. I'd just mount the new one next to it.

#11 5 years ago

That game looks really cool. $350 doesn't sound like too much for it. I'd love to find some of these old Genco games.

#12 5 years ago

perfectly good price. Its a keeper

--Jeff

#13 5 years ago

Ok. I'm probably gonna shop it once I'm done with the King Rock. Jay from ipdb contacted me and was asking a lot of questions about the game for documentation. That kinda got me more interested in working on it. This will probably be my next project so Top Card and Liberty Bell will have to sit a little longer.

Man, before you know the York Show's gonna be here. Uh, oh. Gotta find more room in the workshop.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

I'd love to find some of these old Genco games.

There's some clever engineering going on with them.

Their best idea was to stamp the names of all the relays right onto the wood in black ink, no paper labels for Genco. I wish Gottlieb had done that.

#15 5 years ago

I have no problem with what he paid. I mean where the heck you gonna find another one. Awesome find!

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

That game looks really cool. $350 doesn't sound like too much for it. I'd love to find some of these old Genco games.

Here's a neat one.
baltimore.craigslist.org link

3 months later
#17 4 years ago

Well. I've started work on this puppy. Last project before I go into hibernation for the winter.
Backbox has been disassembled and cleaned with Mean Green. What was once black on the top is now yellow again. The back glass had some severe peeling but, fortunately, it was only in the red points area which will be easy to touch up. In the mean time I have sealed it with Krylon Triple Thick to prevent further issues.

They're are four stepper units in the back box. I've cleaned the credit unit which needed a new reset spring since it was gone. I retrofitted a Williams one which, in manual testing, appears to work. We'll see how it does once the game is operating. When I moved onto the 1-9 stepper I found it completely frozen. Neither arm would come off. WD-40 nor carb cleaner for that matter could dislodge either arm from their pressed shaft. Wiggling just caused the shaft to wiggle as well. Oh man, I don't want to break this! I ended up removing the assembly from the back box which involved desoldering ten wires. I needed to do this to get some leverage on the arms.

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Once removed I stuck the f*cker in the vice and soaked the joints in PB Blaster. Some pliers, screwdriver at the base, more wiggling and pulling and MORE PB Blaster and both were free with just a minimal amount of pry marks in the steel. Thank you PB Blaster!

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Reassembled...and it feels so good.

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#18 4 years ago

I thought this was really cute. Genco pressed their name and part numbers onto the steel. May be useful when needing to order new parts from the company.

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#19 4 years ago

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#20 4 years ago

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#21 4 years ago

Oh. One more thing. Forget about taking the brass sleeves out of the cardboard coils. They ain't budging with making a mess. Just clean and reinstall.

Edit - Just listened to an old TOPcast today and found out that the windings are actually wound around the brass sleeve. So yea, I guess they wouldn't come out without making a mess.

#22 4 years ago

Hey guys. I need some advice about what to do with this severely warped plastic. I have one large plastic that's so melted that it's folded over two switch contacts. Basically the ball would hit the plastic before hitting the contact. Chris Hibler told me that plastic from this era is almost impossible to flatten. What can I do here? I'm not talented enough and don't have the equipment to scan the graphic and make a new plastic so we can forget that. Is there a way I could flatten out this one a little so it would have clearance for the ball? Or, could I use spacers of some sort and just raise the plastic a bit more off the playfield? I'm looking for some help here.

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#23 4 years ago

Well, Chris Hibler is correct. Plastics from this era act like 'shrinky dinks' and just won't flatten.

Reproducing them is about the only option.

#24 4 years ago

The back box is done. Every stepper needed some kind of attention other than simply cleaning. Two of the stepper unit gears had their reset position pins that open switches broken off. I drilled out the old mounts and hammered in roll pins which seem to work pretty good without really modifying much.

The last thing I did to the back box was clean the rear drop in door panels. Just look at this panel. And that was after one cleaning with Mean Green. The whole top of this box was just as black if not blacker.P1010693.JPG

After several applications of Mean Green. Tape didn't want to come off though.
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#25 4 years ago

I've removed the playfield and cleaned the inside of the cabinet. Transformer is mounted under the playfield and not much in the cabinet.

Check out this selenium rectifier mounted to the transformer. Converts AC to DC for the coils. Unfortunately it doesn't work well anymore so were gonna have to do the modern day replacement with a new bridge and bypass the old one.
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#26 4 years ago

Genco marked the the AC and DC leads to and from the selenium rectifier. Yellow for the AC and Red (in the center) for the DC hot and the far left one is black for the negative. Cool huh?
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#27 4 years ago

I would check out the thread on reproducing plastics. At least the art is salvageable. Maybe have the backglass redone at http://bgresto.com/ I would love one of these old Gencos in my collection.

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from catboxer:

I would check out the thread on reproducing plastics. At least the art is salvageable. Maybe have the backglass redone at http://bgresto.com/ I would love one of these old Gencos in my collection.

I've sealed the backglass with triple thick. The only real damage is flaking from the lower left red score area. The detail area with the title and baseball players is almost fully intact.

I hope others feel this way because it's gonna be for sale when I'm done. Keep in mind that I will only do "artistic" restoration if I feel I can make it look close to original. Anything else is cleaned, waxed and left to a future owner. Know your limitations.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from cjmiller:

There's some clever engineering going on with them.
Their best idea was to stamp the names of all the relays right onto the wood in black ink, no paper labels for Genco. I wish Gottlieb had done that.

Yup.

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#30 4 years ago

Anybody know where this Jones Plug was supposed to go? Coin door? Couldn't find any holes for mounting the female end in the cabinet. image-162.jpg

It leads to this female plug which leads to the playfield and a small bell mounted under the front of the playfield. Is this a replay bell instead of a knocker?

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#31 4 years ago

That's actually a timer. You push in the coin slide and it moves the lever and activates the timer. Once the time is up the game shuts off.

#32 4 years ago

Thanks. This seems to be where the female end goes. Which is broken off. What else is missing here?

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#33 4 years ago

It's been awhile since I've seen one set up like this but it looks to be missing a set of switches or at least some wiring. Maybe some one made a free play mod. Did you try pushing in the timer to see if it springs to life?

#34 4 years ago

Before I tore it apart, the game worked (sort of) but the timer never activated. It just went through its five balls and the ended. How would I manually activate it? Not something I could get to right now because the playfield is upside down on my bench at the moment.

So this game uses a timer? Why? Why not just go through the five balls and end? How does it work? Can you play five balls and it ends or do the balls keep loading till the timer is up?

#35 4 years ago

It's possible the timer is bypassed. If I remember right you put your nickel in and push in the slide, the slide presses the timer lever and gives power to the game. I'm not entirely sure if it also activates the start sequence. You play your game and when 5 balls are in the trough your done. Usually pretty quickly on this era. Of course you can still flip the flippers and the playfield is live but no more balls means game over. After a few minutes the time runs out and it cuts power to the game. In theory you could have an epic game and have the time run out before your done but that never happened on the Genco I owned.

#36 4 years ago

The timer on my cinderella was taken out and the wires twisted together so it never shut off power.

maybe something similar?

_jeff

#37 4 years ago

The timer is set so the contacts are always closed and it's been moved so it's never activated at a start of game. However, the timer does work and it takes a LONG time before it's done running after activating. You could probably play, at least, five games before it's done running.

Since I'm missing switches and wiring to the coin door, I think I will continue with the setup that's already been done. Honestly, I don't see why you'd need a timer anymore in the home environment. I would just unplug the game when I'm done.

#38 4 years ago

Check out the return spring. Velveeta. It's not just for pasta.

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#39 4 years ago

Cool photos! Thanks for sharing.

#40 4 years ago

This will be the extent of my repainting. Not perfect but not bad either.

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#41 4 years ago

For those curious where serial numbers appear. Mine is A1283. I would guess that's #283 out of 490 produced.

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#42 4 years ago

Hey guys. This game had 1 1/8" Bally Bingo sized balls installed in it when I got it. They looked right in the trough but Steve Young told me that any game from this era he's dealt with had the standard 1 1/16". Anyone out there ever had an Genco flipper game that used 1 1/8" or did a previous owner just put the wrong balls in? Thanks in advance.

Edit: Never mind. Ran the game through with both sizes today. 1 1/8" played like sh!t. Standard 1 1/16" it is.

#43 4 years ago

Really? No lights in the pops? I've seen older Genco's on ipdb with lighted pop bumpers.
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Well, we'll fix that! Factory or not. Lighted bumpers just look so much better.

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#44 4 years ago

Pretty much done. I'll post some thoughts and, probably, a video on the game soon but, in the mean time, here's some of my photo work. Enjoy.

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#45 4 years ago

Looking forward to a vid! What camera did you use for the final photos?

#46 4 years ago
Quoted from cad-kid:

Looking forward to a vid! What camera did you use for the final photos?

I still use an older Canon 30d DSLR. The wide shot was taken with a Sigma 10-20mm lens and the closeups were taken with a Canon 60mm Macro lens.

#47 4 years ago

Garsh, that shore iz purty!

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Garsh, that shore iz purty!

Thanks jr and everybody else who's commented or gave "thumbs up." I do the best I can. Other than parts I repaired this game "pro bono" for my dad just to do a Genco for the experience. Pins from this era are so...raw. I know this sounds weird but they feel even more "mechanical" than a 70's EM even though it's basically the same principal. I gotta admit. I love it when the 1-9 stepper resets. It sounds like a freaken machine gun. I spent the day helping my dad repair his 1974 Chicago Coin Showtime. I just had to laugh at how sluggish a CC game is during it's reset sequence. All I could think of was the "chugga chugga" of a train. This game from 1951 just felt so much more "tight." Not to mention that Showtime is a turd. Shhhh. Don't tell dad.

One little side story. While cleaning this game I found tons of yellowed grease on springs, brackets, coil sleeves, etc. It looked like Velveeta but smelled nothing like that wonderful product. Even though I wash my hands thoroughly I woke up one night with my hands wrapped around my pillow and in my face and I was thinking "what is that horrible smell??" Then I smelled my hands. Oh man! I can't get it off. Fortunately it eventually went away but what a horrible smell old, crusty grease is. All part of the pinball experience when someone thought Velveeta was good to use as lube.

#49 4 years ago

Here's a couple pics of the added bridge rectifier. I completely credit Clay Harrell for his instructions for how to do this. One AC lead was fused with a 10A. I used wiring that I thought would be easy for someone to identify in the future. Yellow for the AC, red for the DC hot and black for the negative. Certainly not original but necessary for this baby to run again. As always, I've added a new grounded line cord as well.

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#50 4 years ago

Glad you left that big ol' toxic selenium rectifier in place for looks as Clay recommends. No better place for it than where it's been for the last 60+ years.

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