(Topic ID: 177102)

GB Premium vs. MMR

By gweempose

7 years ago


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  • 231 posts
  • 52 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Rarehero
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Ignoring price, which game do you prefer?”

  • GB Premium 104 votes
    41%
  • MMR 148 votes
    59%

(252 votes)

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There are 231 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
#1 7 years ago

This may seem like an odd choice of games to compare, but I'm in the market for a new pin, and I'm strongly considering either a GB Premium or an MMR. I've never owned an MM, but I always enjoy playing it. At the same time, I find myself drawn to GB. I know a lot of people rip on the game because of its various design flaws, but I've always found it to be a ton of fun. It seems my tastes have drifted towards deeper, more difficult games over the years. Because of this, I'm leaning heavily towards GB. My main concern with MM is that I will get bored of it quickly once I own it.

Completely ignoring price, what do you guys think of these two games? Which one do you prefer, and why?

-5
#2 7 years ago

Have you considered Alien?

#3 7 years ago

This is a very tough call. I'm not necessarily in love with either even though I own both. It's classic Williams vs. New Stern really. It's almost like asking "what's better? Addams Family or Metallica?". Very difficult to do.
I would say go with your gut but if I was absolutely forced to pick one, I suppose I would pick Gb provided code could get deeper someday because I don't think it's very deep right now.

#4 7 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

This may seem like an odd choice of games to compare, but I'm in the market for a new pin, and I'm strongly considering either a GB Premium or an MMR. I've never owned an MM, but I always enjoy playing it. At the same time, I find myself drawn to GB. I know a lot of people rip on the game because of its various design flaws, but I've always found it to be a ton of fun. It seems my tastes have drifted towards deeper, more difficult games over the years. Because of this, I'm leaning heavily towards GB. My main concern with MM is that I will get bored of it quickly once I own it.
Completely ignoring price, what do you guys think of these two games? Which one do you prefer, and why?

Ghostbusters Premium.

#5 7 years ago

Ghost!

#6 7 years ago

GBP all day, every day.

#7 7 years ago

I'm in the same boat, so I don't think your situation is unique. I LOVE MMr, but once everyone that wants one has one I think the prices will plummet, so I'm not sold on a NIB yet.

I put in my deposit on a GBLE LAST DECEMBER, sold it before receiving when playfields started popping up crap and downgraded to a fully paid GB Premium. After essentially waiting a year for my dream theme, I just canceled it for a cash refund. You need a ton of mods and patience to dial this game in and on location I still frequently experience air balls, code issues, slimmer mech problems etc etc etc. So yeah maybe buy it in a few years when things are settled, I bought a NIB LED MET and couldn't be happier, because my time is more valuable then fixing a NIB Stern disaster

#8 7 years ago

GB Premium without a doubt

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from tacshose:

I'm in the same boat, so I don't think your situation is unique. I LOVE MMr, but once everyone that wants one has one I think the prices will plummet, so I'm not sold on a NIB yet.
I put in my deposit on a GBLE LAST DECEMBER, sold it before receiving when playfields started popping up crap and downgraded to a fully paid GB Premium. After essentially waiting a year for my dream theme, I just canceled it for a cash refund. You need a ton of mods and patience to dial this game in and on location I still frequently experience air balls, code issues, slimmer mech problems etc etc etc. So yeah maybe buy it in a few years when things are settled, I bought a NIB LED MET and couldn't be happier, because my time is more valuable then fixing a NIB Stern disaster

You're exaggerating and/or freaked out at the mountain of negative posts from March-October with the bad playfields - that's done now. Churchill is doing the playfields again, and they look and perform great. With the current GB Premiums coming off the line, you don't need a "ton of mods" and a lot of patience to dial in the game. You NEED:

Lollipop rails $60
Cliffy GB protector set $93
Standup Airball protector $15-$30
Hammer for raising outlane guides about 1/4" $Free

All of that is ~$168, and about 1.5-2 hours to install, max, and is all you need to enjoy the game and have a minimum of hassles.

And if you want to make it nice, you can get:
Shaker Motor $100
Speaker Lights $35
Neon Glo Balls $50

But those are not absolutely necessary.

#10 7 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

You're exaggerating. With the current GB Premiums coming off the line, you don't need a "ton of mods" and a lot of patience to dial in the game. You NEED:
Lollipop rails $60
Cliffy GB protector set $93
Standup Airball protector $15-$30
Hammer for raising outlane guides about 1/4" $Free
All of that is ~$168, and about 1.5-2 hours to install, max, and is all you need to enjoy the game and have a minimum of hassles.
And if you want to make it nice, you can get:
Shaker Motor $100
Speaker Lights $35
Neon Glo Balls $50
But those are not absolutely necessary.

I assume you are being saracastic because try keeping track of the GB problem threads... bad code made by GB smoke, "emergency" TNT advice videos. Personal Gary calls to KPG, on and on. I know they are on mech V2 of slimmer but I've encountered multiple situations of registering hit problems. Also don't forget zip ties to keep the subway at the proper angle lol

#11 7 years ago

I own both GB and MM, and the winner is GB for me, no matter the technical issues and ghosting etc, GB is just more fun.

#12 7 years ago
Quoted from tacshose:

I assume you are being saracastic because try keeping track of the GB problem threads... bad code made by GB smoke, "emergency" TNT advice videos. Personal Gary calls to KPG, on and on. I know they are on mech V2 of slimmer but I've encountered multiple situations of registering hit problems. Also don't forget zip ties to keep the subway at the proper angle lol

You're living mostly in the recent past. None of those are problems with the ones coming off the line now. I know - we just got one in a couple weeks ago. "Emergency TNT" fix addressed at the factory, Slimer works fine now, playfield colors are more vibrant and no ghosting, no subway problem at all. The only actual REAL problem we had was a coil on the subway kickout died prematurely. That's it.

#13 7 years ago

GB for me also and I own both - MMR is great and I love it but the game is twenty years old and doesn't have the complexity that GB has - I've had no problems with either my MMR and GB but lost of folks with build quality issues over on PPS forum.

Neil

#14 7 years ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

GB for me also and I own both - MMR is great and I love it but the game is twenty years old and doesn't have the complexity that GB has - I've had no problems with either my MMR and GB but lost of folks with build quality issues over on PPS forum.
Neil

Exactly. MMr's "screening issues" on the castle inserts was widespread and at least as annoying as the crappy GB playfields that rolled out over way too long a period, but most of those people did not get the satisfaction of a complete playfield swap. There are plenty of other issues with MMr, too, but I was just sticking to game vs game on an interest/satisfaction level without going into all that other nonsense.

#15 7 years ago

Deeper doesn't mean its better or more fun. Its nice to have deeper rules but mm is plenty deep as is most 90s pins if set up correctly and put on hard settings. I actually got bored of my stern pins (luci, twdp, imve rbion and probably met eventually bc they got stale fast and just lost the fun factor . I went back to games like afm, mb and even fh bc they are just more fun fo me with lots of toys and character, and when set up right are very difficult.

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

This may seem like an odd choice of games to compare, but I'm in the market for a new pin, and I'm strongly considering either a GB Premium or an MMR. I've never owned an MM, but I always enjoy playing it. At the same time, I find myself drawn to GB. I know a lot of people rip on the game because of its various design flaws, but I've always found it to be a ton of fun. It seems my tastes have drifted towards deeper, more difficult games over the years. Because of this, I'm leaning heavily towards GB. My main concern with MM is that I will get bored of it quickly once I own it.

Brian, we talked about this a bit at Bob's party Wednesday night, after you set the GC score on his GBLE at 1.2 billion. You obviously enjoy GB gameplay and understand how to score well. That's the first hurdle, because GB seems to be a love-it-or-hate-it affair, more so than a lot of other games on the market.

I know you like playing MMR, too, but I also remember that you've been rotating games out of your collection that don't have deeper code, because those games no longer represent a challenge for you, and they lessen the fun factor you experience over time.

Based on the above, I suspect you would enjoy MMR for a few months, but would quickly tire of playing it after you've seen and done everything the code has to offer.

As vireland stated, both games had production problems in earlier runs, but most of the current problems on games now coming off the line can be addressed pretty easily with some relatively inexpensive mods and a few hours of TLC.

I would recommend that you pick a GB Premium. I think you will enjoy it longer, even in its current state, and the code still has time to mature. Keep in mind the version you played the other night was only V1.05. The latest code is V1.12. Bob recently downloaded it (he showed me the USB stick), but didn't have time to install it before the party. Hopefully you snapped a photo of that GC score, because it's going to get wiped pretty soon.

Last but not least, IMHO, the Premium has the best art package of all three versions of GB. If you haven't seen one yet up close, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how nice it looks. I asked Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) about that at EXPO, and he told me the Premium art package was his personal favorite, too.

The good news is, both games in this comparison thread are great. Whichever one you choose, you will enjoy. Knowing your personal preferences, though, I think GB Premium would be the best choice for your game room.

#17 7 years ago

I'm confused. The poll shows MMR in front but most posts are for GB.

Oh and for what it's worth I'm in for MMR

#18 7 years ago

I had GBLE. It's an awesome theme chock full of toys. It's initially fun to play (Isn't everything?). Added full inlane protectors and center post kit, then airball protectors. Playfield was good on mine. No nightmares like others had. The progression of the code is pretty straight forward, so it's possible to enjoy it right away.

Within a month though, I was tired of the design flaws like the airballs and bricks that rocketed back at you. Multi balls are just chaos. Everything is lit and impossible to control the ball. The center of the playfield Scoleri Bros. drop target design is awful (I still wonder if they wanted MM Troll style ghosts there). Because it's so tough, none of my non-pin guests could enjoy the game. Overall, it was and just the lack of satisfying shots for me. Never had that "feeling" like when you progress through MET or Tron or LOTR.

Sold it and picked up a nice, fully modded Tron. I'm considering an original MM now. MM might not be deep but it's fun as heck.

#19 7 years ago

I obstained from voting because you know my recommendation already.

You're a more skilled player so if buying just for yourself to enjoy, go GB. It is more difficult, unforgiving, and has hopes for a deeper code. For family, friends and guests - MM all day long. Kids love bashing the castle, theme is approachable to all, and the humor entertains. Plus it's a damn fine looking game - one of the best!

My only other recommendation, wait if you decide on GB. Let Stern get the game to a "MET" level in code before buying one. Unless a screaming deal comes up. They're not done with the quality issues and code is still in maturation phase. Unless you really like code as is, don't gamble with Stern any more. You know me and how well I'm versed on MM rules, code is king.

#20 7 years ago

I have both sitting right next to each other. You where over playing them so I guess I started this. I would pick GBLE or premium.

IMG_7359 (resized).JPGIMG_7359 (resized).JPG

#21 7 years ago
Quoted from tatman9999:

I have both sitting right next to each other. You where over playing them so I guess I started this. I would pick GBLE or premium.

Sidebar: That's one beefy gaming stool.

#22 7 years ago

I figured MMR would win the poll, but I'm surprised it's so close. I have a question. For those of you that voted for GB, would your vote have been different if the other option was MM instead of MMR?

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

My only other recommendation, wait if you decide on GB. Let Stern get the game to a "MET" level in code before buying one.

Sadly, without Lyman at the helm, I doubt we'll ever see this kind of polish on GB. I think the only reasonable thing to do is judge the games on how they stand right now. For those of you that own GB, does the code feel pretty solid? Is there stuff that is obviously missing or any major bugs?

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from tacshose:

Also don't forget zip ties to keep the subway at the proper angle lol

C'mon, tacshose you're coming off as "Pinside dramatic" right now.
We all know it was a piece of paper!

I agree with vireland.
Haters/Naysayers that keep spouting this crap about all these previous issues with GB are living in the recent past. Mid-to-late Oct PF's are indeed CCC's PF's. Games that started from that early Nov run should have all the new brackets, scoop weldament fixes (e.g. "scoop mowhawk") and Ecto goggle airball side plate in their games.
Does it need a bit more tweaking/setup to make it perfect?
Yes, yes it does.
Is it worth it?
For the last time, YES!

Saying your time is more valuable is B.S.

You went out of your way to own pinball machines in the first place. You are going to need to fix/clean them eventually and that takes some time to do it correctly, or you're paying someone to do it for you.
I would've believed you if you had no collection and were simply playing Pinball Arcade.

Just admit you "regert" not picking up your GB when the price was lower (twice) and now you don't want to pay the stupidly new higher price for them.

The only money-out-of-pocket "mod" you really need is the airball protector above the targets.

You can pay $$$ for one pre-made, or you can DIY it like I did for a couple of bucks and still have enough left to do 3 more for friends.

Full disclosure:
I tried to keep this off my game for the longest time trying to bend the brackets/targets just right, adding denser foam to the top portion, etc...
It didn't solve it 100%.
Now, it does.

1.12 code is solid enough to play, theme is probably the most well integrated game Stern has ever done*, and once you do the fixes, GB and GBP/LE becomes extremely addicting and satisfying to play!

*out of the recent Sterns.

#25 7 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Deeper doesn't mean its better or more fun. Its nice to have deeper rules but mm is plenty deep as is most 90s pins if set up correctly and put on hard settings. I actually got bored of my stern pins (luci, twdp, imve rbion and probably met eventually bc they got stale fast and just lost the fun factor . I went back to games like afm, mb and even fh bc they are just more fun for me with lots of toys and character, and when set up right are very difficult.

I'm the exact opposite. My collection used to be mostly older DMD games from the 90's, but now half of it is modern Sterns. On top of the deeper rulesets, I also really enjoy the immersion that the newer games provide via the modern lighting and sound.

#26 7 years ago
Quoted from NimblePin:

theme is probably the most well integrated game Stern has ever done

LOTR

#27 7 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Have you considered Alien?

Not available until mid 2017 at this pace.

#28 7 years ago

Touché Badbilly!
Most REcEnT Sterns then!
(Fixed above)

#29 7 years ago

I was in the same position at one point, debating whether to purchase MMr or GB Premium. I went with GB and am glad I did. It's so much fun to play!

#30 7 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

I'm the exact opposite. My collection used to be mostly older DMD games from the 90's, but now half of it is modern Sterns. On top of the deeper rulesets, I also really enjoy the immersion that the newer games provide via the modern lighting and sound.

Yep it goes in waves until people find what they like.... everyone has different tastes.

#31 7 years ago

MMR all day long. It's a known quantity. Design is solid, smooth, fun, code is great and done, and display is in color.

GB was supposed to be amazing but it's a huge disappointment. The design is awful, it's brutal and cheap to the point of frustration...I like a challenge, but not poor design. The modes are linear which becomes super annoying super quick. The code just doesn't "gel". Multiballs seem like an afterthought. Implementation of theme is poor - it somehow lacks all the personality and character of the movie. Custom voice is the character with the least personality, and he's poorly written and given Bill Murray lines like "Tex" ...the voice callouts for the rest of the characters is sporadic, and mostly tied to the modes, which again since they're linear - there are callouts you'll rarely hear. The DMD never shows their faces - only their backs - which is really odd and another thing that takes personality away from the game.

As for the Premium extra features... Slimers movements don't have specific switches, making his multiple positions pointless. The goggles have a few animations but don't really do anything for gameplay. The right ramp likes to stop the ball and send it back.

It's a game I should have loved from plunge one, but it aggressively wants you dislike it - you have to really try extremely hard to like the game...it doesn't come naturally. After playing it a ton and hoping I was wrong and something would click, I gave up after it was clear the game was just flat out NOT fun. Plus the QC issues on top of it all. I had to cancel my order. MM is fun.

If you're concerned about the code - don't buy it till it's done. Sterns will never change if sales are brisk with broken code.

#32 7 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It's a game I should have loved from plunge one, but it aggressively wants you dislike it - you have to really try extremely hard to like the game...it doesn't come naturally. After playing it a ton and hoping I was wrong and something would click, I gave up after it was clear the game was just flat out NOT fun. Plus the QC issues on top of it all. I had to cancel my order. MM is fun.

It's interesting that people can have such different opinions about the game. I know you're not alone in your hatred of it, but many others clearly love it. I can't recall such a polarizing game before. As I said, I've always found it to be a lot of fun. It was definitely frustrating the first few times I played it because of the wide flipper gap and the magna slings, but once you get a feel for the game, I think it shoots well. I love both the left ramp and the right ramp shot, and the way the ball goes beneath the playfield and then is delivered to the right flipper is inspired.

Granted, I have probably played less than 100 games on it. That's one of the reasons I started this thread. I want to know what kind of legs the game has in a home collection. Some have mentioned that the rules are a bit shallow, but they don't seem particularly shallow to me. There are at least a couple mini wizard modes and a main wizard mode, right?

#33 7 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I like a challenge

No you don't.
Enthused hater of all EM's, early solid state, and now more specifically GB, you want spoon fed milk-toast flowy ramp shots until the cows Vespa home.

I still love that you're on here Rare but, c'mon man.
Messing with Winston is where I draw the line!

Quoted from gweempose:

Some have mentioned that the rules are a bit shallow, but they don't seem particularly shallow to me.

That's probably because they only get to "Who brought the Dog" and drain multiple times.

Just because the game uses the "ladder format" doesn't mean you can't move around to different ladders to achieve the later goals.
I still find it enjoyable after 300+ plays and I think the other owners do too.

#34 7 years ago

Would be interesting to see this poll in 5-10 years. GB is stil in a honeymoon period, but MM opinions are also inflated from nostalgia.

#35 7 years ago

Magna Slings will for sure keep GBP/LE players on their toes, even 20 years from now.
Sure it's random and sometimes cheap, but at least it stops the player from pushing the mental "auto pilot" button.

#36 7 years ago
Quoted from NimblePin:

Magna Slings will for sure keep GBP/LE players on their toes, even 20 years from now.
Sure it's random and sometimes cheap, but at least it stops the player from pushing the mental "auto pilot" button.

I was really worried about the magna slings when I first heard about them. I feared that Stern had made a huge mistake by messing with something that is so fundamental to the pinball experience. I've grown to love them, though. They really keep you on your toes, and they perfectly integrate with the theme.

#37 7 years ago

I'd go MMR even though I'm not a massive fan. Premium GB def better and fixes issues that the pro has.

Quoted from gweempose:

They really keep you on your toes, and they perfectly integrate with the theme.

The effect itself is cool, and overall it's a great idea, but the 1 switch I think really hurts them.

#38 7 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

They really keep you on your toes, and they perfectly integrate with the theme.

Yup, and they get crazier the further you get in the game.

The one switch does seem a bit weird, but I guess JT wanted the ball to be somewhat centered over the magnet before it fired.

#39 7 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

I can't recall such a polarizing game before.

X-Men, WOZ, RZ, ...any game that is owned by a Pinsider.

#40 7 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

X-Men, WOZ, RZ, ...any game that is owned by a Pinsider.

Ha whilst true, the GB theme REALLY brought out the psycho in people. You have people that were totally militant aboot the theme and how amazing the game would be when it came out totally flip and now piss and moan aboot all the problems with it. Funny stuff.

Quoted from NimblePin:

The one switch does seem a bit weird, but I guess JT wanted the ball to be somewhat centered over the magnet before it fired.

I'm sure there was logic behind it but to me it's a real downer. I mean shit I would understand theme-wise if they didn't work at all in the beginning, and got progressively wacky as the game goes on; that makes sense. But the fact that we know what slings are supposed to do, it's hard to be happy when they just putter around that area and literally run right into a sling and nothing happens.

#41 7 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Ha whilst true, the GB theme REALLY brought out the psycho in people. You have people that were totally militant aboot the theme and how amazing the game would be when it came out totally flip and now piss and moan aboot all the problems with it. Funny stuff.

Yep. People had much higher expectations for this game than usual because of the theme. It's definitely created some extremely strong feelings both for and against the title.

#42 7 years ago
Quoted from NimblePin:

No you don't.
Enthused hater of all EM's, early solid state, and now more specifically GB, you want spoon fed milk-toast flowy ramp shots until the cows Vespa home.

Why do you have to get defensive to the point of being insulting? My dislike of OWNING older games has nothing to do with challenge. I just don't like the presentation enough to own them. I don't like games that lack music, sound, ramps, light shows and interesting features/toys. Every single game I own is challenging in its own way. And if any of those games gets to easy, settings can be changed, back legs can go up. Challenge doesn't = ball time. Challenge = how much of the game's content can you advance though. Ghostbusters problem is that it's packed with the story content of an entire movie but is designed to kill you like Iron Man (while being cheaper and less fun). When Iron Man kills you, you hit start again cuz you just might have a shot at an amazing game. When Ghostbusters kills you, it's because the ball dribbled out of the pops, air balled off the Scoreli targets over the flippers, ricocheted off the right orbit gate, spat straight own the middle from the scoop...you hit start only to experience all of that again and play Who Brought the Fucking Dog over again. I'd hate LOTR too if the Balrog air balled you down the drain and if you had to play "Witch King" 1st every single time you started a mode.

I'm not the only one who's had this experience. Perhaps you respect a tournament player like Levi who has said the same exact things about this game.

Quoted from NimblePin:

That's probably because they only get to "Who brought the Dog" and drain multiple times.

That's how the game is designed! You cannot blame the player for experiencing the game how it's been presented.

Quoted from gweempose:

It's interesting that people can have such different opinions about the game. I know you're not alone in your hatred of it, but many others clearly love it. I can't recall such a polarizing game before. As I said, I've always found it to be a lot of fun.

You think it's fun, so buy it. If you decide you don't like it later then sell it. Simple enough. IMO, the art/music/theme allow people to shrug off the fundamental problems with this game. If it was another theme, they wouldn't be so forgiving. I was almost there myself, but the lies about the Premium playfields being good is where I finally couldn't do it any more. I saw two brand new Premiums with ghosted inserts a day after they were opened.

Enjoy your new GB lol

#43 7 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

and now piss and moan aboot all the problems with it. Funny stuff.

If guys knew how to be professional rather than total assholes they would have what I have coming in a few weeks.

#44 7 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Why do you have to get defensive to the point of being insulting?

Greg, you have been insulting on plenty of occasions not to mention incredibly defensive. If you don't like someone's comment about a game you thumbs down it to death.

You need to look in the mirror bro.

#45 7 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

If you don't like someone's comment about a game you thumbs down it to death.

Case in point.

#46 7 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

Greg, you have been insulting on plenty of occasions not to mention incredibly defensive. If you don't like someone's comment about a game you thumbs down it to death.
You need to look in the mirror bro.

A thumbs down isn't an insult. It means "disagree". I don't want to get into it with every post I disagree with - so when someone says "Ghostbusters geometry is a thing of beauty" or "i played one game and it's the best game ever" - I hit a fucking
button instead of wasting everyone's time.

#47 7 years ago

Hypocrite. You do it as well. It's a feature of the site. Ignore it if you don't like it.

#48 7 years ago
Quoted from FlippyD:

Would be interesting to see this poll in 5-10 years. GB is stil in a honeymoon period, but MM opinions are also inflated from nostalgia.

MM isn't nostalgia. It's a proven excellent game. Newbs like it, Pros like it. It's done its time and earned its rep.

#49 7 years ago

Hey, it's all good. I started this thread because I was looking for feedback on these games, both positive and negative. I appreciate all the posts thus far. Since I have never owned either game, I was hoping to gain some insight from people with more experience than I, and to educate myself on the various viewpoints.

#50 7 years ago

GB will be made for 3 years, I have no idea how many more MMR CGC will make something to consider.

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Other
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Eden Prairie, MN
$ 218.00
Lighting - Backbox
Lermods
Backbox
$ 219.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Lit Frames
Decorations
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