(Topic ID: 55444)

gauging interest: williams joust playfield plastics


By j_m_

5 years ago



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There are 261 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 6.
#1 5 years ago

background:
scott ifkovits (detroit pinball here on pinside) started coordinating this project with jim smith (outstanding CPR artist) in march/april of 2012

jim sent me a teaser of one of the plastics on april 1, 2012 (I had previously worked with mr. smith prior, supplying a NOS joust playfield and feedback in his recreating the playfield artwork for CPR)

subsequently, I provided both jim and scott scans of my plastics (along with butcher paper outlines for the large apron plastics) to assist in the project

fast forward to today:
scott stepped away from the project (due to lack of free-time), allowing allowing jim and I to take up the reins and keep it alive

jim smith has nearly completed all of the artwork for the playfield plastics (he's currently working on the last piece with an estimated completion date of this weekend)

to do list:
- run a sample set of plastics (I've found one place that can screen large enough to meet our needs (I still need to find a shop to perform the cnc cutting)
(the williams joust machine may only have 11 plastics in total, however it's probably one of the largest sets [sq. inches of material] used in a pinball machine)
- create a wooden/metal form so that the large apron plastics can be heated and bent per the original specs
- acquire licensing from rick @planetary pinball (initial email has already gone out)

what we're looking for from the community:
- a count from those who would be interested in purchasing a set of plastics

given that the machine was produced in a very limited number (402 units), and that there are probably less than 200 machines still in working condition 30 years later, we don't expect that there will be more than 30-50 people looking to acquire a new set of plastics (if we're lucky to get that much interest). also, due to the low run number, chances are that the costs for this "boutique" run will not be cheap

#2 5 years ago

I'd probably take a plastics set if the CPR playfield was available.

#3 5 years ago

I would pick up a set for mine

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd probably take a plastics set if the CPR playfield was available.

I have no idea when kevin is planning on producing the joust playfield. jim's had the artwork complete for a year now and I've kept my last NOS playfield so that kevin will have something to use to set up the cnc for cutting and dimpling.

I've mentioned to kevin that he should at the very least announce it on the pre-order page so that he can gauge interest. he approached him to do the plastics as well, but they didn't want to take it on which is why it's become an "indy" project

#5 5 years ago

I would buy a set.

#6 5 years ago

I'd definitely pick up a set to keep as spare back-up for my game.

#7 5 years ago

I just love seeing new parts for these classic machines being run. Bravo!

This is a game I want in my collection one day!

#8 5 years ago

I'm in for two sets.
Dan

#9 5 years ago

I am in for at least one or two sets depending on price.

Tom

#10 5 years ago

while I've got the attention of some of you here, can those of you with a machine report the part no.'s for your plastics?

mine were as follows, but I know for a fact that at least one of the slings were vultured off one of my other machines (when I owned 3 at one time) to try and put keep a set that was in the best condition.

player one side
519-1          cross-over plastic
519-2          left sling
519-4          right out lane
31-1109-519-AP apron
31-1112-519    cabinet end marquee

player two side
519-5          cross-over plastic
519-2*         left sling
519-6          right out lane
31-1109-519-AP apron
31-1112-519    cabinet end marquee

31-1103-519-AP coin door
#11 5 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

background:
scott ifkovits (detroit pinball here on pinside) started coordinating this project with jim smith (outstanding CPR artist) in march/april of 2012
jim sent me a teaser of one of the plastics on april 1, 2012 (I had previously worked with mr. smith prior, supplying a NOS joust playfield and feedback in his recreating the playfield artwork for CPR)
subsequently, I provided both jim and scott scans of my plastics (along with butcher paper outlines for the large apron plastics) to assist in the project
fast forward to today:
scott stepped away from the project (due to lack of free-time), allowing allowing jim and I to take up the reins and keep it alive
jim smith has nearly completed all of the artwork for the playfield plastics (he's currently working on the last piece with an estimated completion date of this weekend)
to do list:
- run a sample set of plastics (I've found one place that can screen large enough to meet our needs (I still need to find a shop to perform the cnc cutting)
(the williams joust machine may only have 11 plastics in total, however it's probably one of the largest sets [sq. inches of material] used in a pinball machine)
- create a wooden/metal form so that the large apron plastics can be heated and bent per the original specs
- acquire licensing from rick @planetary pinball (initial email has already gone out)
what we're looking for from the community:
- a count from those who would be interested in purchasing a set of plastics
given that the machine was produced in a very limited number (402 units), and that there are probably less than 200 machines still in working condition 30 years later, we don't expect that there will be more than 30-50 people looking to acquire a new set of plastics (if we're lucky to get that much interest). also, due to the low run number, chances are that the costs for this "boutique" run will not be cheap

I am in for a set as well.

#12 5 years ago

Interested. Would be a no brainer if there was an end in sight for the playfield.

#13 5 years ago

Hi

Count me in for 2 full sets.
Brett B

#14 5 years ago

Hey

My left sling for both players is 519-3.
See pic.

Thx
Bb

image.jpg

#15 5 years ago

Yes, I am in for a set! Playfield too, if that ever happens

2 weeks later
#16 5 years ago

a quick update:
we're in the process of fine-tooth combing the artwork to ensure that everything is perfect

I've managed to lay out out the plastics to the smallest footprint possible (which is still a whopping 32" x 48"!!! due to the shapes of both the aprons and the end cabinet marquees)
on the plus side, since we'll have "dead space" that we cannot control, both jim smith and I agreed that we should take advantage of it

what this means is that we will be including an extra set of the 6 playfield plastics (the 2 cross-over pieces [the piece found to be broken in most machines) as well as both sets of slings

I'm currently in negotiations with a screening company (but I still need to find another company to do the laser cutting and then work out a method to bend the aprons).

right now, we're *hoping* to shoot for a price point of ~$250 a set <fingers crossed> but I'm not making any promises. there's still a lot of work ahead, but I hope to provide updates like this one as we hit our milestones

#17 5 years ago

I certainly don't want to disparage the production of repro parts in any way, I'm just curious.... This seems like a lot of effort for a game of only 402 production. Is it that great of a game? I've never played or even seen one in person. How about playfield or plastics for Meteor for example?

Dana

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from sysprog:

I certainly don't want to disparage the production of repro parts in any way, I'm just curious.... This seems like a lot of effort for a game of only 402 production. Is it that great of a game? I've never played or even seen one in person. How about playfield or plastics for Meteor for example?
Dana

If you owned a Joust you would care if these get made. Nearly every Joust there needs something from the plastic set. My end caps are faded and my cross over plastics are broke so I hope these make it to production.

#19 5 years ago

dana:
this is definitely a project which is a labor of love (much like most of the repro's that end up getting done). and I would imagine that 90% or more of the time it's by a person or group that own the machine in question.
at one point in time, I had 3 joust machines in my house (including the 1st pinball machine that I purchased which was one that I drove 30 hours non-stop from detroit to new hampshire and back to procure it. and I know that mr. smith's machine is actually his 2nd (his first was sold to mr. ifkovits).
your best bet in getting meteor's playfield and plastics reproduced is to find someone who's background is in graphic arts (either coral draw or illustrator) and owns a meteor (because they want a set for themselves). as stu from CPR can attest, this is more a hobby than a profession. these guys (and gals) aren't taking home a size-able paycheck (if any) for the work that they're doing.
for the joust playfield, I posted my NOS playfield to jim smith so that he had something clean to work from. additionally, I scanned all of my plastics (which are all complete, unfaded and un-broken) both front and back so that again, he had clean reference material.

marc:
I wouldn't worry too much. they'll get done one way or another. this will definitely be a boutique run, much like the playfields when CPR *finally* gets around to running those.

a bit more back story. I attempted to get these done over 5 years ago, however negotiations fell through with the parties that I was working with (pretty much before the project got off of the ground). I was pleasantly surprised to see mr.'s ifkovits and smith picking up the project last spring and extremely grateful that I was permitted to help out

#20 5 years ago

i'm sure i speak for all the joust owners...

---> >> THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS << <---

2 weeks later
#21 5 years ago

Any updates on how things are going with Rick or a production schedule?

#22 5 years ago

no update yet. we've identified a few inconsistencies / errors with the plastics (both with what we're attempting to do and what williams did 30 years ago) and mr. smith is correcting those.

after that, he and stu (CPR stu) are going to determine the pantone spot color values and then I'll have the plastics screened (I have at least one [local] company that can accommodate our size requirements)

things on my "to do" list that still need to be done:
- find a company that does laser c-n-c cutting to cut out the plastics (and can accommodate a 32"x48" sheet of PETG)
- create a process (& test & finalize it) to successfully and consistently bend the apron plastics
this means that the plastics will need to ship in a rather large box (at least 6" deeper than if the plastics were all flat)
- sell a kidney to fund the costs

and now, here's a poll for those of you looking to purchase a set of the plastics:
on the original apron pieces, there were 2 stickers applied. one was the instruction set (found on top of the scroll in the center of apron) and the 2nd was on the left edge, providing cost of game information (this area was also blocked out under the sticker so that the 2 44/47 bulbs underneath could light up the stickered area)

question 1:
should we eliminate the white blocked out area on the left (pricing sticker)? (this would require everyone to remove the 2 bulbs on each side so that a "blank" area doesn't illuminate)

question 2:
should we eliminate the need for a sticker for the instructions? (instead include it as "screened" instruction text on the apron)

we have our thoughts on these, but it wouldn't hurt to see everyone else's opinions

#23 5 years ago

A presidence for 'printing' the instructions on the plastics instead of a "sticker" would be the repro Orbitor 1 plastics we (CPR) did a few years back. I ran into the same situation with the Instructions Decal and decided it would be a 'cleaner' look to print them on the plastic instead of forcing the buyer to make a Decal and apply it themselves.....Shown below is the Orbitor 1 finished product.....Not trying to influence anyone, just putting it out there as a 'sample' as to what's already been done in a similar situation......

Stu

orbplas10.jpg

#24 5 years ago

thanks for chiming in stu (I was wondering if you would, knowing that the question was in your wheelhouse, so to speak

#25 5 years ago

Thanks for doing this BTW. I've been following the progress and would like to get a complete set. The problem I have is that I'm one of the odd ducks that has the blue/red apron plastic versions instead of the black/red one's. I'm having a rough time understanding why both versions can't be done, the blue/black screens look the same to me. Can either of you please explain why it can't or shouldn't be done? The price couldn't be that much different.

Steve

#26 5 years ago

As far as the instructions go I think a direct print is fine. Will have to go look at the pricing area to form an opinion on that.

#27 5 years ago

blownfuse:
after looking at your photos, I don't believe that it would as simple as you think to produce the red/blue variation.

if you look closely, you'll notice that all of the elements touching the blue sections still have a black outline. as the vector file stands now, the solid colors end and then the black section begins. in order to accomplish what you're asking for, mr. smith would have to alter his artwork, add in the outlines and then fill the new remaining area.

in the screen printing process, this would require at least 2 additional screens to accomplish (a different one for black w/ the outlines and no large black sections and one for the blue section)

here's a peek at what's been completed so far:

joust_plastics_layout_sample.jpg
note: the light blue is merely to show the transparent and scrap areas

#28 5 years ago

Jim has done a nice job on the Artwork.....

#29 5 years ago

Congrats for your work...There is a Joust pinball game here...If i can help mine is like yours......no plastic broken...interested in a playfield...

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/16hyy7ppds93za0/WpZTs4YqzR

#30 5 years ago

Nice work. I'm bummed however that it'll be of no help to me.

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from Stu:

Jim has done a nice an incredible job on the Artwork.....

corrected that for you stu

#32 5 years ago

I stand corrected......

Quoted from j_m_:

corrected that for you stu

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

blownfuse:
after looking at your photos, I don't believe that it would as simple as you think to produce the red/blue variation.
if you look closely, you'll notice that all of the elements touching the blue sections still have a black outline. as the vector file stands now, the solid colors end and then the black section begins. in order to accomplish what you're asking for, mr. smith would have to alter his artwork, add in the outlines and then fill the new remaining area.
in the screen printing process, this would require at least 2 additional screens to accomplish (a different one for black w/ the outlines and no large black sections and one for the blue section)
here's a peek at what's been completed so far:

note: the light blue is merely to show the transparent and scrap areas

hola,
did you decide to use my sling-shot left plastic in the final artwork?

cheers,
bb

#34 5 years ago

I like the direct printed instructions. If you clean the plastics and there's some decal on there, it's going to get messed up anyway. Stu and I had the same thoughts on Orbitor 1 and those turned out great.

1 week later
#35 5 years ago

I just bought a joust. Count me in on a set of plastics.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from DougPiranha:

I just bought a joust. Count me in on a set of plastics.

congratz !!
what's your model # ?
any pix?

#38 5 years ago

that's hilarious... i think i just ran across your other thread and pointed you over here to buy a set of plastics

#39 5 years ago

Direct print instructions/text FTW. The Orbitor plastics look amazing, and I can't help but think Williams would have done it too, had they spend the time and money

#40 5 years ago

Oh and LEAVE OFF the 'for amusement only' pricing sticker (seen in this pic: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/16hyy7ppds93za0/WpZTs4YqzR#lh:null-2013-08-07%2020.36.44.jpg)

It's not needed in the home environment and looks bad

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from fuko:

Oh and LEAVE OFF the 'for amusement only' pricing sticker (seen in this pic: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/16hyy7ppds93za0/WpZTs4YqzR#lh:null-2013-08-07%2020.36.44.jpg)
It's not needed in the home environment and looks bad

I agree no pricing information. If someone really wants that they can make there own sticker.

#43 5 years ago
Quoted from fuko:

Oh and LEAVE OFF the 'for amusement only' pricing sticker (seen in this pic: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/16hyy7ppds93za0/WpZTs4YqzR#lh:null-2013-08-07%2020.36.44.jpg)
It's not needed in the home environment and looks bad

Quoted from Marc:

I agree no pricing information. If someone really wants that they can make there own sticker.

the problem with this area is that its light masked and there are 2 44/47 bulbs located underneath. if we eliminate the area entirely it makes it so that you have to remove the bulbs and that you can *never* put something there illuminated again (since it wouldn't mask properly)

I'm not sure what a good compromise would be since there is a white mask to the area (I was hoping there wasn't because that way, those who didn't want to display anything there could simply put some black paper underneath and remove the bulbs).

we'll have to give it some more thought

#44 5 years ago

Possible compromise: Remove the "block" area in the Black and replace with the Joust Logo. This way it would Light Up and yet you wouldn't have that "block look" in the Black. This would be fairly easy to incorporate into Jims artwork as he has already done the Logo in a vector format....Just my 2ยข.....

Stu

Quoted from j_m_:

we'll have to give it some more thought

#45 5 years ago

I'm in for a set. Awesome!

#46 5 years ago

JM and Jim,
Congrats on all the work you guys are doing, and great to see this come so far.
I am in for 2 sets, and I also know of a couple people in the metro Detroit area that also want a set.
I have a list of emails that I have been recovering from a hard drive crash of people that responded to me from the RGP thread. There was a guy in Europe that knew of a couple people definitely interested in ordering sets as well. I will get that to you this week.

Scott
Detroit Pinball

#47 5 years ago

I would take one, for sure.
Pinaholic

#48 5 years ago

I am in for one as well

#49 5 years ago

I would be interested in getting a set of plastics for Joust as well... Someday I will hopefully find a Williams Joust pin that does not break the bank...

-- Shawn

4 weeks later
#50 5 years ago

Any update?

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