Who knows, but the entire premise of this thread is wrong anyway, so my point is moot.

What part of the seminar? Here is the video:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/54117198

He's confused.

At the 11:50 mark Gary talks about there being no more AC/DC Premiums. Later, he also says that there are no more Metallica Premiums left.

He never said there will be no more Premium versions offered going forward.

So if they eliminate the premium and they don't increase twdle totals, he just put control of the possible value increase into collectors hands by it actually being limited... That's if he doesn't do a premium and doesn't increase the game total over 500... If this is the new model he chooses then I would expect them to increase the le total numbers made to 1k or something much higher so he can reap the profits of more sales and less models

My guy at stern says they've all but abandoned the preemie model.

if this is true, 500 LE won't be enough, 1k seems more right but not really limited anymore...

they should call it the SE.

Nope. LE will mean LE. But pros will be built til the cows come home.

Which confuses me. If the marketing is getting better at Stern ( gradually), and so far the strategy has been working, who made the idiotic decision to release Pro first then sell a limited number of LE's after Pro release?

Good decisions compounded by bad ones.

It sounds wrong to me too. It doesn't make sense, it's basically a rerun of a winner, that's still in run.

Huh?

I wish they would dump the LE and just make a premium.
Unlimited premium.

Can anyone clarify this issue?
Two of Sterns most successful recent releases were ACDC premium and MET premium. Gary can't be oblivious to this fact. If his plan is to release only LEs and Pros, there's going to be a ton of unhappy buyers and money moving to alternatives- JJP, boutiques, re-makes, etc...

Sounds like another bad decision then. Doesn't make sense not to increase the number of le. Ur leaving profits on the table. Well with a good title u are but they can headge there bets. Announce 1k le if the game doesn't sell they never have to get to the 1k total.. If they don't then we as collectors just landed the next tron le

52:10 he said they didn't decide whether they will make an TWD Premium yet..

Exactly. They could still make it.

Quite the opposite of saying no more Premiums going forward, only pro and LE.

To many overpriced options in my opinion, should really be two models one standard that has the same playfield and basic toys, targets etc and one that gives you a few extra bells and whistles. Nicer trim, shaker, different Translight or Backglass. Do it like they did before and hell now they are doing Mods so offer those to the standard games as well other then maybe one thing that makes the LE more desirable because you cant buy it aftermarket.

This is the same old story from Stern Bla Bla Bla. I think the Alien theme announced from Andrew and Dennis is awesome and a decent price, I like the Big Lebowski and what the guys at DP are doing. I think I would Be in on a Pinball Circus if they go into production down the road because I think they wanna stick to what Python wanted and at a affordable price for everyone.

The Hobbit I was in on and because of Finances I had to back out, I wanna like the SmaugSE version but Im a bit Disappointed with Smaug, I also really thought the VUK's were gonna be wire forms and the book has to just be a Proto thing there is no way they go into production with that. So right now I think I am also gonna stay with what I have in the collection 21 pins is good. I might reconsider Hobbit as we get closer to the Dec 31st deadline on Smaug SE if something changes.

One thing I am gonna get that I saw is now an option to purchase is the 75th topper for WOZ and 150.00 is not that terrible.

Just my 2 cents

Joe(acejedi)

I'm so confused.

Future Vault Editions would be Pro models or full featured LEs?

Stupidest thread ever. Thanks everyone.

Yup. Pro/LE is a douche move. So hardly surprising.

Having one SKU proved pretty difficult for them at times!

Look. You can't make an "LE" edition...and then turn around 6 months later and produce the same exact game with different back glass and trim, only to call it a premium.

Sorry folks, but that is LAME.

The should make their Pros and a Premium model. Sell the premium for 1.5K less than their current LE.

Leave it at that and everyone is happy. If a collector really needs extra bling, they can order a Refinery Edition...or do it themselves.

And "f*** Stern" is the new buying model.

The only way that works better for Stern is if they are confident with every single title.
If each game was a hit, we'd buy tons of them after the code is done.
Of course without a Premium, Stern could sell a bunch of LEs (buyers are pressured to get one while available, even without complete code) and if the game isn't a hit, they've still sold the LEs.

Buyers will own all the risk.

So was the OP.

Good thing I am a big PRO buyer! What needs to happen is another company needs to start developing new good titles for around or under 5000 bucks! All other competition is in the high end 6-8.5k range. Why isn't anyone trying to get more less expensive games sold to the masses? I think some new development is needed, not every game needs dozens of toys or features. Sometimes less is more, old school design needs to be reinstated.

I probably wouldn't buy a Pro since it's too watered down with features and can live without all the bling of an LE. Screw it...I guess I'm fine with what I own for now.

Why do people continue to post in this thread as though what the OP stated is true and accurate?

It's not.

Gary Stern did NOT state that there would be no Premium versions going forward!

Heighway Pinball is selling two for one at $10K...that's 5K a game

Exactly. Why on earth does the full playfield experience have to be inexorably linked to bling level??

But it won't be, so don't worry

Damn it Rob, how do you do bold??

ooh, found it.

+1

I was just stating that pro is the market that I normally can afford. I feel that even spending close to 5k is crazy for a entry level game. I feel like we may be priced out of the market soon! Im considering not buying TWD pro just because the price has risen every time Stern releases a new title in the last couple years. No, I don't take all of the threads for fact!

I don't understand Stern's marketing.(If they are saying, no more PREMIUM"S)....Let's just take the last 2 "BEST" seller's for Stern...
They announced AC/DC LE's first, to a great extent, and limited to 200 LTBR -300 BIB, within a week,
ALL LE's were sold out.,..... BUT, they ended up selling more PREMIUM's than ANY other machine to date. They even came out with a re-make of the PREMIUM (Luci)(still selling)..Even the pro's sold well (still selling), compared to other pro's.
So, then they come out with Metallica LE's, which were , what 500 games?.,
which SOLD OUT in 1 hour.!! The PREMIUM'S were then snatched up by those, who could not get a LE.,
selling a boat load of those.(still selling).., and of course, Pro's have sold extremely well as well,(still selling) ...
Then ST came about, LE's have sold OK,PREMIUM'S sold very well, Pro's sold Great.!!

Then along come's Mustang......
With Pinball manufacturer's like Stern, they get into a room, and analyze the data/sales of their LAST game...
..they now look at the data for Mustang Le's , and Mustang Pro's and Premium mustangs...
And realize the premium is a dud big time of the 3.., So they decide to not produce the premium model forward, but they should not do that.., Premium is a great seller depending on the game., and Largely depending on the LE sales...

Ok, in following this thread, what went so wrong for Stern when they made compelling titles in: LOTR, Simpsons and Spiderman- all fully loaded with great toys that retailed for $4k US?
Were they losing their shirts at that price?
Considering the lack of interactive toys on the most recent Stern releases, I think their model is shifting towards 'more money for less'. As long as they keep selling out the over-priced LEs and we accept the stripped down pros, Stern will maintain this model. IMHO- not good.

Why can't Stern have a Premium model be the default, with a limited number of cheaper/stripped down "Pro" models initially?
Operators snap up all the Pros with limited code at launch. Once they're gone, only Premiums (the full game) is available -since most sales are probably home collectors by then anyway?
Pros come out first, but limited code isn't as big a problem as they're being routed. Limited Pros mean that you might not see a new pin everywhere, so maybe people even pay more to play them initially?
Especially if we're trying them out to see if they're great enough to warrant buying a Premium?
Then, after a little while the code is a little better developed and the Premiums sell to home buyers.
If the Pros don't go over well, no need to make many Premiums at all.

I understand that this is a pipe dream and that the market is the way it is cause that's how the money flows (for lack of a more detailed breakdown), but man... That would be awesome.

One of the rare posts where I don't know whether to give a thumbs up or thumbs down because I really have no concept of its meaning.

I did not hear that but he did talk a lot about beer.

Apparently mnpinball did a lot more than hear about beer.

Just watched the entire speech.
As Rob says, not a single mention about not doing any more premiums.
In fact he did not rule out if they would do a premium Walking Dead.

i wonder what else gary didn't talk about?

Gotta love the OP to stir up a shitstorm and bail. The post is inaccurate and should be closed. People will just keep debating false information till someone rages.

Should be done like WOZ/Hobbit. Game play is always the same...cosmetic changes only for LE.
nuff said

I honestly don't care lol I think a pro or le is good and i hope stern would start making there pins a little more durable as i know a few guys that had to have new playfields replaced all ready.

I really don't care if they make 5 versions of a game, just give me some creativity on the playfield with some interactive toys and/or innovation! I want to see something on the playfield and think to myself "that's cool, I want that!". Not the same old bash toys, magnets, lit shots, drop target banks, and a shot that returns the ball to the shooter lane. Even something as simple as the spinning disc in Tron and how it puts backspin on the ball was something I found fun, for example.

Bling does nothing for me if the gameplay sucks and the playfield is nothing new/innovative.

RobT

Are you @ Expo?

If so ask Gary if he's making Tron Premiums

Hey Stern, pros are fine for under $4300 and you will have my business. I will not pay top dollar for stripped down games and undeveloped code. Oh wait prices just keep increasing looks like my NIB days are over...

You're right, buyers and distributors bear the brunt of misjudged sales, with forced pre-sales and usually declining values. There are only 3 options here:

1) Stern guesses low, some buyers are forced to purchase sign unseen and other buyers miss out entirely on the only full game play model, and Stern loses out on high $ game sales.

2) Stern guess high, buyers again feel they have to buy sight unseen just in case it sells out, and distributors are stuck with extra inventory because they too are forced to pre-order, and every LE loses value in the aftermarket. Patient buyers get to play the game and buy at a reduced cost.

3) Stern guesses spot on. Odds of this based on track record is 20%. Would anyone base their business on 20% accuracy?

Who likes buying a $7000+ lottery ticket with not even the chance to double the ticket price?

^^ This guy!!

Well Gary is making a mistake, but are you guys noticing the method in the madness? (I'm guessing) They will sell you a Pro and let you add mods to it from their online store.