(Topic ID: 40762)

Gary Stern confirms Wi-Fi coming, tournament play through the cloud.


By Napabar

6 years ago



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  • 105 posts
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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Pinder
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    #1 6 years ago

    He mentions this at the end of the video on the page. It's not in the article.

    http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20130216/ISSUE01/302169976/the-next-thing-for-our-digital-age-pinball

    #3 6 years ago

    Sweet

    #4 6 years ago

    Nice catch. I still don't grasp how they can stop cheaters, or account for variations between machines, but onwards we march!

    #5 6 years ago

    "We're gonna talk on the cloud. We're gonna let people compete."

    That isn't exactly a product announcement. It sounds like someone who has no idea what "the cloud" actually means.

    #6 6 years ago

    About time.

    #7 6 years ago

    I saw this the other day.. tournament would certainly push public playing more.

    "Worldwide sales of new pinball machines leaped to an estimated $20 million in 2007 from $500,000 in 1994"

    Wonder what sales are now? If it's up 30%, does that mean 27 million in sales?
    Didn't think there was that much chunk of pinball money to be had?

    #8 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    "We're gonna talk on the cloud. We're gonna let people compete."
    That isn't exactly a product announcement. It sounds like someone who has no idea what "the cloud" actually means.

    Seems like he has enough of a grasp for me. Nothing he said was contradictory...

    Haters gotta hate.....

    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    I saw this the other day.. tournament would certainly push public playing more.
    "Worldwide sales of new pinball machines leaped to an estimated $20 million in 2007 from $500,000 in 1994"
    Wonder what sales are now? If it's up 30%, does that mean 27 million in sales?
    Didn't think there was that much chunk of pinball money to be had?

    I'm sure that doesn't factor in inflation.

    Also, 94 was hardly the bottom for Pinball sales. In 94 things were still humming along...late 90's was a bad slump. $500,000 seems low for 94.....

    #10 6 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    Nice catch. I still don't grasp how they can stop cheaters, or account for variations between machines, but onwards we march!

    Maybe the settings have to match up exactly between machines for them to engage in tournament play....or engaging in tournament play evokes a standard set of rules, separate from how you've adjusted your machine.

    #11 6 years ago
    Quoted from Napabar:

    Seems like he has enough of a grasp for me. Nothing he said was contradictory...
    Haters gotta hate.....

    Okay, then... how does it work? What protocols will the machine be using? Wifi or ethernet? Will it be regional scoring or some sort of tournament system or both? What type of central data storage will be used and where will it be located? Will that data be accessible in any format from outside of a Stern pinball machine?

    "The cloud" doesn't just happen. There are a lot of things going on there and generally anyone who refers to it as "the cloud" does so because they have no idea what exists inside that foggy bubble.

    #13 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    Okay, then... how does it work? What protocols will the machine be using? Wifi or ethernet? Will it be regional scoring or some sort of tournament system or both? What type of central data storage will be used and where will it be located? Will that data be accessible in any format from outside of a Stern pinball machine?
    "The cloud" doesn't just happen. There are a lot of things going on there and generally anyone who refers to it as "the cloud" does so because they have no idea what exists inside that foggy bubble.

    Why would Gary go into all the detail in the scope of that type of interview? Why does Gary have to know every little detail to understand the larger concept of networked game play?

    You're complaining for no reason other than to complain......

    #14 6 years ago

    Still tough to stop people from cheating. Even if they have some kind of detection of the glass being on the machine, people could be crazy enough to cut a hole in the glass to cheat.

    I'm not a serious enough player to actually care about if I get beat or not, and I despise cheating in anything I do, so I think it would be fun to play against some friends on here at random. I don't get anything out of cheating, so it would be fun to see how I fair against some other people I know on here but have never met. Sounds good to me!

    #15 6 years ago

    Meh, it's just a way to compete.

    Don't take it too seriously

    Every machine is different no matter how exact the adjustments are

    Sounds like a cool & fun feature to me

    #16 6 years ago

    I absolutely can't stand the term "the cloud". I wish I knew who started that crap. I can assure you there is no cloud, and nothing is up there!

    #17 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    Will that data be accessible in any format from outside of a Stern pinball machine?

    I think this is where a real future for turning new teenage kids on to pinball could ignite. Especially if by some miracle a third party company could come in with programming that could bring together all of the new pins coming out from any company. So, instead of people signing up for tournaments on a "Stern Cloud Site" and a "Jersey Jack Cloud Site" and so on, with each player having to have a million different accounts to "compete" on different companies pins, there could be an all-encompassing tournament site. Could be great for pinball, I know I'm excited about "cloud" pinball, despite the many questions there are still out there to ask and figure out.

    #18 6 years ago

    useless feature for most, another price hike coming

    #19 6 years ago
    Quoted from Napabar:

    Seems like he has enough of a grasp for me. Nothing he said was contradictory...
    Haters gotta hate.....

    Yea, "Talk on the Cloud" is kind of humorous to a computer nerd but you understand what he meant - that the games would be able to connect to a central database wirelessly via the internet.

    Cloud is the new buzzword. Everyone watches commercials.

    #20 6 years ago
    Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:

    useless feature for most, another price hike coming

    So, you speak for the majority?

    #21 6 years ago

    Maybe via the tournament button? But yeah they will probably have a few lockdown bar/glass detectors, and settings that must be the same. I'm still all for it, there is always cheaters, look at xbox/ps3/wii. I would still love to play against people from around the world. Give me a real challenge and look at what common scores are.

    What would be fun is if you could have groups, ex. pinside and we all have the same machine and have leader boards for our group. Or even a friend 1v1 live.

    #22 6 years ago

    Probably just a variation on how Jukeboxes are done now. I'd imagine Pins will be on-line & you'll download an app to your phone. You'll have a "pinball account" and be able to put credits on the pin, watch scores, do tourneys and stuff like that. There will be a $$ cut off the top of course, but that's the way it goes.

    It's becoming pretty popular. I know with Jukes, you can play a crappy song in a bar you're not even at!

    #23 6 years ago

    Jack mentioned that there are ways to tell if a personis cheating but did not say how. Some have suggested time between switch activations and if the flippers are being used to match switch activations. It is pretty easy if written into code.

    I do not see why this has to be complicated. The game could even sense the pf pitch. If it is not 6 degrees, +/-.5 then it will not be allowed to connect to the online host. Cheating gets you booted off. The machine will default to a certain set of rules when you enter that mode. If it is recreational play online you could still be allowed to change settings. It is no different then everything they are already doing. There will be cheaters, but they will try to stop them.

    I think a mode that is linked would be interesting where is you drain, the other players flippers quit. That would give the players the same ball times. It would not be cool for a real tourney, but a different division that will gives some of of "standard" players a chance to actually compete on a different level. It would be more of a speed score mode. It would force people to know the rules and maek certain shots.

    #24 6 years ago

    however if 80% of stern sales are going to home use then you have to imagine its going to be geared less for sales and more for the home user?

    #25 6 years ago
    Quoted from JoeJet:

    Yea, "Talk on the Cloud" is kind of humorous to a computer nerd but you understand what he meant - that the games would be able to connect to a central database wirelessly via the internet.
    Cloud is the new buzzword. Everyone watches commercials.

    Treat the comment for what it was - an innocuous comment during a conversation awkwardly edited into a news bit. It's not a product announcement.

    I guess you have to have experienced that about 50000 times. Senior executives love to talk about "the cloud" until they are made aware of the scope and expense of what they want. Can't tell you how many times I've been in a room and had an older exec ask why we "can't just have the cloud do it like in the IBM commercials". They always back off when the answer is "just having the cloud do it means paying IBM consultants a couple million dollars to implement the design and perform ongoing operations".

    If he had said "gonna use an LCD" in a badly edited comment would we be having this conversation?

    #26 6 years ago

    I heard there's a TF update coming also

    Welcome to the 90s Stern

    #27 6 years ago
    Quoted from absocountry2:

    Jack mentioned that there are ways to tell if a personis cheating but did not say how. Some have suggested time between switch activations and if the flippers are being used to match switch activations. It is pretty easy if written into code.
    I do not see why this has to be complicated. The game could even sense the pf pitch. If it is not 6 degrees, +/-.5 then it will not be allowed to connect to the online host. Cheating gets you booted off. The machine will default to a certain set of rules when you enter that mode. If it is recreational play online you could still be allowed to change settings. It is no different then everything they are already doing. There will be cheaters, but they will try to stop them.
    I think a mode that is linked would be interesting where is you drain, the other players flippers quit. That would give the players the same ball times. It would not be cool for a real tourney, but a different division that will gives some of of "standard" players a chance to actually compete on a different level. It would be more of a speed score mode. It would force people to know the rules and maek certain shots.

    Got to say and no I am not trying to bash Sten but the QC well lets face it - less is more. The less complicated you make it the more it could work. My leveler could not be more wrong in my game. So if they try to build a too much into it your going to get nothing. Keep it simple if you want to cheat then well what have you won?

    #28 6 years ago

    could the wifi be used for other things like code updates?

    #29 6 years ago

    No, but you'll be able to announce it on your Facebook wall when you enter your initials, right? That's in the cloud.

    #31 6 years ago
    Quoted from turbo20lbs:

    I absolutely can't stand the term "the cloud". I wish I knew who started that crap. I can assure you there is no cloud, and nothing is up there!

    It is total propaganda!

    It's a made up name that makes data stored on a BOX in a DATA CENTER seem friendly.

    #32 6 years ago
    Quoted from ENDOFLINE:

    could the wifi be used for other things like code updates?

    I would hope so!

    #33 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    No, but you'll be able to announce it on your Facebook wall when you enter your initials, right? That's in the cloud.

    Give it up, pal.

    -1
    #34 6 years ago

    "the cloud" seems like its interchangeable with "the internet".

    #35 6 years ago
    Quoted from ENDOFLINE:

    could the wifi be used for other things like code updates?

    Yes, pretty sure that is already happening soon from rumors.

    #36 6 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    "the cloud" seems like its interchangeable with "the internet".

    "the cloud" = ("the internet" + "the people who can make it possible" + "the people who can keep it running")

    #37 6 years ago

    As long as they don't force you to have a facebook account to access their supposed cloud. There are some things they could build in to establish anyone cheating. Even something as simple as length of the game. It could certainly poll local parameters for settings around difficulty etc.

    #38 6 years ago

    I suppose a programmer could make a very complicated algorithm to compare the player with how its supposed to go, so if, say elastic bands were on an outlane, or even large rubbers, this would become apparent. Would be impressive if they figured this out.

    #39 6 years ago

    If you criticize them will they kick you off the cloud?

    #40 6 years ago

    The cloud and the internet are two verify different things....but the cloud needs the internet to be "the cloud". Cloud is more of a compute/service delivery. So if Stern houses servers and storage for the online system and delivers a tournament via internet...I guess you could call it a cloud service...but whatever....

    #41 6 years ago
    Quoted from krupa:

    If you criticize them will they kick you off the cloud?

    If I compete on a Rolling Stones will it scream "HEY YOU GET OFFA MY CLOUD" and reject my scores?

    #42 6 years ago

    The built in webcam will easily show if somebody is cheating.

    #43 6 years ago

    The fact is that no two machines play alike, so it would be impossible to hold truly fair and balanced (Aka Fox News) online tournament settings.-Factors such the age and durometer of the rubber, is there a cliffy protecting a hole that makes it more difficult to hit, is there any drop dead foam or tweaks done to make the game play better, how much wax is on the playfield, slope, pitch, floor surface, climate/humidity, etc. These factors all affect the way a game plays. The sensors required to monitor such factors would be more expensive than the game itself. I do think online tournament would be a fun thing to add to a game but it would have to be for novelty purposes only.

    #44 6 years ago

    If Stern's is anything like the Golden Tee system it's useless for the home market! Funny JJP said WOZ was going to have the Internet feature and you don't hear anything about that function. Hum?

    #45 6 years ago

    I won't call it fair unless there is a way to ensure the guy on the machine next to me didn't eat his last four meals at the Mexican place across the street. I'm not competing IN THE CLOUD, I'm competing ON THE CLOUD.

    #46 6 years ago

    When ?

    Seems a lot of things are mentioned. New system, LCD.

    Yet we never seem to see them or at least know what game coming will have it.

    I hope it happens. Just tired of rumors.

    LTG : )

    #47 6 years ago
    Quoted from BriGuy5:

    Still tough to stop people from cheating. Even if they have some kind of detection of the glass being on the machine, people could be crazy enough to cut a hole in the glass to cheat.
    I'm not a serious enough player to actually care about if I get beat or not, and I despise cheating in anything I do, so I think it would be fun to play against some friends on here at random. I don't get anything out of cheating, so it would be fun to see how I fair against some other people I know on here but have never met. Sounds good to me!

    In the grand scheme of things.... it doesn't matter much. Networked video games have the same problem and have had them since games went online. People will cheat, and that sucks, and it's a never-ending tug of war between anti-cheat detection and cheaters coming up with new ways to cheat. However, the overall benefit and fun of online play and the increased sales of the games overrides the drawbacks of cheaters. Also like video games, habitual cheaters will start to get a rep and people will simply avoid them or call them out on the forums.

    #48 6 years ago

    The cloud tournament doesn't have to be in the home. Multiple cities could set up locations that are run by a moderator at each location that has set up the game to specifications and watches that nobody cheats. Then the players in each city meet up at the one location to play in the tournament and still compete with players in other cities. There will still be differences between the machines but it would be kept to a minimum and nobody can cheat by taking the glass off or putting rubber bands on the out lanes.

    #49 6 years ago

    That's how tournaments work without any clouds.

    #50 6 years ago
    Quoted from kguenther6:

    The cloud tournament doesn't have to be in the home. Multiple cities could set up locations that are run by a moderator at each location that has set up the game to specifications and watches that nobody cheats. Then the players in each city meet up at the one location to play in the tournament and still compete with players in other cities. There will still be differences between the machines but it would be kept to a minimum and nobody can cheat by taking the glass off or putting rubber bands on the out lanes.

    Also, a system of handicapping might be possible, based on the game audits of one machine versus another over the course of the event.

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