(Topic ID: 271874)

game won't fully reset; buzzing from somewhere...Heat Wave Schematic


By undrdog

14 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 34 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by currieddog
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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pops (resized).JPG
Capture (resized).PNG
TDS215.jpg
Heat Wave Schematic Wms 1964.pdf (PDF preview)
BRN001BA9EDBFCA_115030 (resized).jpg

#1 14 days ago

All I did was refurb a pop bumper! No lost screws or dropped solder (I put a rag under where I was working). I did move the harness going to all the large bank of relays attached under the playfield out of the way a little.

When I turn it on, there is a loud buzzing under the playfield. It sounds like it is coming from the bank of relays, but its hard to tell. The score motor cycles once- about 1/3 around I think. The game does not fully reset. The game over light is not on, but the tilt lamp lights. The bumpers don't score.

I labeled the wires, so I don’t think I got them mixed up, but would getting the coil wires mixed up affect the game resetting?

Time to call a pro? How do I begin to track this down?

Heat Wave Williams 1964

#2 14 days ago
Quoted from undrdog:

All I did was refurb a pop bumper!

Something might be touching a little in the pop. Is the pop relay in the bank? You can take something like a pair of needlenose pliers with insulated handles to touch each relay and feel for the vibration to track down the buzz. You want to be fairly quick so the coil doesn't fry.

#3 12 days ago

currieddog

There really isn't anything inside the pop to touch. Removing the bulb to break the lamp connection didn't help. Under the pop, the lead from the lamp socket's wire was almost touching the metal ring of the pop, but trimming it back didn't help any, either.

The machine almost wants to run... there is a motor that runs two moving targets. The motor starts, then stops. (In case that helps any.)

The reset relay activates, then quits.

Also, the buzzing starts loud, then gets softer after just a second or two. Is that a clue?

The relay to the red pops is marked in the bank. It feels like it may be vibrating, but everything is so close together, it could be something else vibrating in the bank.

If it was the pop bumper leaf switch, the pop would want to fire. Breaking the EOS switch on it doesn't change anything, either.

Where do I go from here? I've looked at my photos and the wires were soldered back to the correct lugs.

Thank you.

Mike

#4 11 days ago

The relay bank resets when the button is pushed, but the tilt relay and game relay go into locked position.

#5 11 days ago
Quoted from undrdog:

The relay bank resets when the button is pushed, but the tilt relay and game relay go into locked position.

Do you happen to have a high quality schematic scan, and have you tracked down which relay is buzzing? Tracking down the buzz is key to fixing it.

#6 11 days ago

Its the coil to the tilt relay.

I have a good schematic.

Looking at the picture...
1. is the tilt relay indicated the one in the reset bank? Why does it show normally closed? Aren't the tilt switches normally open?
2. are these all the switches in the tilt relay stack? If so, are they in any particular order?

I've localized the buzzing.. .now what?

BRN001BA9EDBFCA_115030 (resized).jpg
#7 11 days ago

Can you post the whole, including the legend?

#8 10 days ago
Heat Wave Schematic Wms 1964.pdf
#9 10 days ago

Whoa, barely legible. Can you take it Staples and get it scanned? $2.

And re: post 6. The tilt relay is closed during reset/start seq. There is a tilt relay farther down the schematic.

#10 10 days ago

Tried to delete that when I saw the conversion made it awful. I'll take it somewhere. Pls stay tuned....

#11 10 days ago

currieddog
I think I found it- the lock relay isn't firing. Close it manually, and everything's fine. Looks old and brown / burnt. Also, its very loose.

Saw a forum where someone suggested, for a home use machine, cutting the power to the lock relay and wedging it closed.

Whaddaya think?

#12 9 days ago
Quoted from undrdog:

Saw a forum where someone suggested, for a home use machine, cutting the power to the lock relay and wedging it closed.

Whaddaya think?

Bad idea. A new coil is $10 so do it right. I would confirm that the coil is shot first though. They're constantly energized so they get a toasty look after a while. Does the buzzing stop when you close it?

#13 9 days ago
Quoted from undrdog:

Saw a forum where someone suggested, for a home use machine, cutting the power to the lock relay and wedging it closed.
Whaddaya think?

I'd like to see a high quality scan of the schematic to be sure, but it should be OK.

#14 9 days ago

I'll get it scanned in... others in the future may like to see it.

#15 9 days ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Does the buzzing stop when you close it?

Yes. Also, my multimeter shows the coil is getting power.

Does the dead coil explain why the game would begin the starting cycle, then stop as if it had tilted, and show the tilt light? Seems like it would not start at all, and show Game Over. What is the sequence on that?

#16 9 days ago

A misbehaving Lock relay could explain why your Tilt relay is firing, as shown in your other topic:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/game-won-t-reset-heat-wave#post-5725290

#17 9 days ago
Quoted from undrdog:

Saw a forum where someone suggested, for a home use machine, cutting the power to the lock relay and wedging it closed.

Whaddaya think?

It might work, but I think there is a reason the game was designed as it was. Remember that the designers were also engineers.

#18 9 days ago

I've ordered a new coil.

Now all that needs to be done to turn it into a kick-ass machine is refurb the other pop bumpers (just on principle- they work), raise up an insert, and maybe sand down someone else's lousy repair on the playfield. It's a little bumpy. It'll never be a showpiece, but it'll play a great game.

Will be able to get the schematic scanned hopefully today or tomorrow.

#19 9 days ago

Heat Wave schematic

TDS215.jpg
#20 3 days ago

Replaced the lock relay coil. Seems to work.

Possibly related other weirdnesses...

When the power strip is switched on, the game lights without pressing the left flipper button.

Also...

If you cut the power during a game, and turn it back on, the game stays in play unless you wait several seconds before returning power. Seems like the coils would immediately release and put the game into game over mode. What's that all about?

Also also... the game comes back showing Tilt, not game over. Maybe it supposed to do that?

#21 3 days ago

If anyone needs the Heat Wave schematic, send me a message with your email. I have it in pdf and jpg.

#22 3 days ago
Quoted from undrdog:

When the power strip is switched on, the game lights without pressing the left flipper button.

Also...

If you cut the power during a game, and turn it back on, the game stays in play unless you wait several seconds before returning power. Seems like the coils would immediately release and put the game into game over mode. What's that all about?

Sounds like the Lock relay is not releasing.

#23 3 days ago

OK, here is the problem with your pop lites: check the Number 4 relay. Now, the yellow pops aren't listed for some reason, but they and the red alternate by the side or center bumpers and the slings?

Capture (resized).PNG
#24 3 days ago

The two reds come on together; the two yellow come on together. They come on as determined by the thermometer advance unit, not the bumpers.

I'll check the no. 4 relay.

pops (resized).JPG

#25 2 days ago
Quoted from undrdog:

They come on as determined by the thermometer advance unit, not the bumpers.

The bumpers go into relays that feed an advance unit. What happens if you manually engage them?

#26 2 days ago

There's a one point relay. A ten point relay. Manually engaging them rings the bell and properly scores.

Some one is suggesting it is the advance unit, and that must be it. That would explain much of what is happening.

But I don’t think the stepper could be assembled in the wrong position, because it only goes back together one way— the spindle has a notch for the disk to fit onto.

I cleaned the contacts with alcohol when I had it apart. I suppose I could take it apart and use the little contact cleaner file thing I got from PBR.

Maybe I resoldered a couple wires back wrong, but they were all labeled.

#27 2 days ago

On the schematic above, is the arrow pointing to the reset position of the stepper? Reading schematics In general, is the reset position always on the left? Or have an arrow?

#28 2 days ago
Quoted from undrdog:

On the schematic above, is the arrow pointing to the reset position of the stepper?

Where are you talking about?

#29 2 days ago

Sorry. Post 23 above.

The advance unit diagram shows a row of 25 circles. The step unit has 25 steps. So far, so good.

The first one has an arrow pointing to it. I was hoping that indicated the zero / reset position and the others are the next steps in sequence. But on further thought, I don't think it is that diagram, because the last several don't show any wires. If that was the correct diagram, the connection points at the far right would all show lighting to all of the pops.

I'm trying to find the part of the schematic where I can see the wire color of step one, step two.. etc. so I can match that up with the actual unit to make sure I got all of the wires soldered back in the correct spots.

It has been suggested that the step unit is out of sync, and that explanation makes a lot of sense. But, if I remember right, the wheel of connections has a notch at the spindle. It can only go on one way. That leaves either dirty connections, which have been cleaned with alcohol and good rubbing a few weeks ago, or maybe I got the wiring wrong.

#30 2 days ago
Quoted from undrdog:

The first one has an arrow pointing to it.

That just indicates where the power in starts.

One unfortunate thing about Gottlieb is that their documentation sucks. A Williams manual would show all the wires. What you will have to do is manually advance the unit and see what lights, or doesn't.

#31 2 days ago

Thanks to another pinsider, I’ve confirmed that the wires are correctly placed.

#32 1 day ago
Quoted from currieddog:

One unfortunate thing about Gottlieb is that their documentation sucks. A Williams manual would show all the wires. What you will have to do is manually advance the unit and see what lights, or doesn't.

WTF? Heat Wave is a Williams Machine with a Williams schematic!

#33 1 day ago

Currieddog has been great helping me sort through the problems with the machine. If he got his manufacturers mixed up in his post, shit happens. Give the guy a break.

#34 1 day ago
Quoted from fireball2:

WTF? Heat Wave is a Williams Machine with a Williams schematic!

Just testing you, fireball2!! I think the humidity has zapped my mind.

But it is true, even if it doesn't relate to this machine ...

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