(Topic ID: 206640)

Game Show no sound sys11c

By silverball84

6 years ago


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#1 6 years ago

I have a game show that I've basically resurrected from a skimpy pile of parts. The game is 100% complete but I'm having trouble getting the sound board working. There is very little tech data available for this series of sound board. I get no test tones and no sounds. I have swapped ribbon cable with other known good cables and no change. Speakers are good, amps are good. Ive installed new ROMs and confirmed jumpers are in their correct location(this may or may not be correct but they are set to using 27512 eeproms). All socketed chips have been tested in another working game. Board is clean and unhacked. I have a logic probe but have no idea what to probe to check for stuck lines. Any help would be appreciated.

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#2 6 years ago

I can tell you why that is not working... That is not the correct board. That board is a 13971 audio board out of a High Impact Football arcade game. The board will work in your machine, but you are going to have to get the ROMS re-flashed onto 27c040 chips (1040 kb rom chips). I can tell because your board has the 32 pin ROM sockets.

You can read about the conversion here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-super-high-impact-arcade-audio-board-to-system-11-conversionhack

It can be made to work, in fact I have one on my work bench I got off ebay cheap, and I was going to test in my Whirlwind.

#3 6 years ago

Does the board need rejumpered for the 1040 chips. It's currently jumpered for 512 eeproms.

#4 6 years ago

I am about 90% certain they don't make a 512k eprom chip in a 32 pin configuration. Looking at the picture you posted, it appears you put 28 pin 512k chips into the rom sockets intended for 32 pin roms. They do not have the same pinout, and wont work regardless of how the board is jumpered.

So if you got the roms burnt to 1040 chips, would you have to change the jumpers? I am not sure on that one. I would start with the board with the jumpers in the factory positions, and work from there. I found the manual online for High Impact football that the board was built for, and there is no jumper information listed in it for the sound card.

#5 6 years ago

Do you have one of these boards with the 1040 ROMs in it working that you can send me the list of jumpers on? The limited resources available for these boards forces me to rely on others knowledge and or photos of comparable boards. It appeared to me that the only sound boards available to fit the 512 chips had the 32 pin sockets and the chips were installed with the top 4 pins not being used, but this is going off of ipdb pictures. I know that the sound board has to have the w10 and w11 jumper to be possible to use 512 chips. However I'm at a loss when it comes to them being able to use 28 pin eeproms in a 32 pin socket.

#6 6 years ago

Ok I found the schematic for both the 11581 and 13971. I have confirmed that you are correct about 512 ROMs not working in the 32 pin sockets. I will get 1040 ROMs to put in place of the 512s that I have and in the mean time I will try to locate a jumper list for the 13971 board. I appreciate all the help and giving me the information you have.

#7 6 years ago

I will see if I can get the 13971 board setup in my whirlwind next weekend. It uses 256k roms, so I will have to alter the file sizes to fit in the 1040k roms. The process for doing that is described in the link I posted.

#8 6 years ago

Ok, things did not go as well as I hoped they wood with my 13971 board. WW uses 256 roms, so I had to quadruple the images to get them on the 27c010 chips that came on the board. I had to put the old chips that came with my board under my eprom light for an hour to get them to erase. I got the new chips installed, and the board won’t boot... all it does is make a ticking sound. I didn’t get much time to dig any deeper into the board other than swapping the processor and sound chips into my working board to confirm they were good.

Right now my leading suspects are the old rom chips I re-used. They are reporting the correct information, but I’m not sure all is well with them...

#9 6 years ago

Ok, I got it to work... I went ahead and changed my jumpers to match my factory board. This involved moving jumper w2 to w3, and w10 to w11. After this it still would not boot. I was then poking around on the 68b09e with my scope when I got the familiar boot tone... and then the board worked. I think my board needs a new 40 pin socket, as it may not be booting reliably due to a bad connection.

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#10 6 years ago

Interesting. I am waiting on my 1040 Eeproms. As soon as I get them I will swap them out and check. My jumpers are set per the Game so fingers crossed that they will be my only issue.

5 months later
#11 5 years ago

Resurrecting this old post. I have my 13971 board making sounds with the correct roms. However it doesn't boot correctly at power on and once it does boot and start producing sound, all sounds are correct but the voice call outs are sometimes incorrect. They are consistent though which makes me think it's possibly a jumper issue. Anyone have any ideas, and thanks for all the help in getting me to at least have sounds again.

#12 5 years ago

Does it boot after a couple of attempts to power up the machine?

#13 5 years ago

It never boots at power on. Only after I start a game and play for a minute. At power on it just pulses or ticks about twice per second. Sometimes it will give the familiar boot tone 5 times and repeat. Once the board boots it runs fine. It has never stopped once it booted until I turn off the power. Just wrong voice call outs.

#14 5 years ago

Maybe a heat gun will help narrow down the problem by warming the failed part. Once working, you could use freeze spray one part at a time to see if you can make it fail again.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Maybe a heat gun will help narrow down the problem by warming the failed part. Once working, you could use freeze spray one part at a time to see if you can make it fail again.

It does sound like a bad chip. I would try this method to track it down. The tick sound is the board continuously trying to boot. The last time I had this happen I had a bad U2. The chip practically fell apart when I tried to remove it.

#16 5 years ago

I'm getting five tones at power on. It is still working but the voices are still partially incorrect. All I did was ground the board better where it mounts. I noticed a hum and when I pushed on the corner of the board it would go away so my ground wasn't the best.

#17 5 years ago

Ok, that is odd, I thought the boot tones only went up to 4. It does sound like a rom problem. What are jumpers W2/W3 and W10/W11 set at?

#18 5 years ago

I believe w3 and w11 are set but I will look when I get home later

#19 5 years ago

Ok so it looks like W2 and W10 are set. I'll attach the pics of them both.

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#20 5 years ago

Ok, so I made progress today. I dug up a schematic for the High Impact Football sound board which is what I have in my Game Show. The schematic for the sound board in the Game Show manual is wrong, so I grabbed the one for Bugs Bunny's Birthday Ball. That is the correct schematic for the board in Game Show. 5 tones indicates a problem with U20. Upon looking at the schematic it appears jumpers W11 and W10 are reversed between these 2 boards. My Board was set for W2 and W10 which is correct for the original board. On the high impact board it causes an issue with only U20 which is the Speech EPROM. Swapped the jumper from W10 to W11 and my speech is now correct. Still have a boot issue, but all sounds are correct. Going to do some more troubleshooting. I will report back with final results.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from silverball84:

Still have a boot issue

With the MPU?

#22 5 years ago

No Sound Board only. It's a System 11c game so the MPU has no sound components.

#23 5 years ago

How are you getting sounds on the sound board but yet not booting? Are you pressing a diagnostic button?

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

How are you getting sounds on the sound board but yet not booting? Are you pressing a diagnostic button?

If I leave the machine on for 5 mins or so the sound board eventually boots. At first power on the speakers just pop about 2 times per second and continues to do this for roughly the 5 - 10 min. After I leave it powered on for this long the board will boot and operate normally with no issues.

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from silverball84:

Ok, so I made progress today. I dug up a schematic for the High Impact Football sound board which is what I have in my Game Show. The schematic for the sound board in the Game Show manual is wrong, so I grabbed the one for Bugs Bunny's Birthday Ball. That is the correct schematic for the board in Game Show. 5 tones indicates a problem with U20. Upon looking at the schematic it appears jumpers W11 and W10 are reversed between these 2 boards. My Board was set for W2 and W10 which is correct for the original board. On the high impact board it causes an issue with only U20 which is the Speech EPROM. Swapped the jumper from W10 to W11 and my speech is now correct. Still have a boot issue, but all sounds are correct. Going to do some more troubleshooting. I will report back with final results.

Glad to hear you figured out the rom issue. As for the boot problem, it sounds like the board is continuously trying unsuccessfully to boot. So should start your trouble shooting on the digital side of sound board. Because it boots after about 5 minutes, I suspect one of the chips has to heat up to make a connection to get the machine to boot. You may be able to track down what chip this is using a hair dryer or heat gun, and heating areas of the board and seeing if it forces a boot.

#26 5 years ago

Took a heat gun to U13 and instantly booted. Socketed in a new LS175 and now I have a fully fuctioning Game Show. Thank you to all who helped me through this.

#27 5 years ago

Congrats and enjoy the show!!

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