(Topic ID: 71772)

Game Plan owners club. Welcome!


By SpOoKyRiDeS

5 years ago



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  • 398 posts
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  • Latest reply 12 days ago by frunch
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There are 398 posts in this topic. You are on page 8 of 8.
#351 45 days ago

Couple other thoughts: make sure you're dmm is set for DC voltage (I'm presuming you did)... also, even though they may look good make sure to pull all the fuses and check that they're the appropriate rating and check good for continuity. When you put them back in, make sure the fuse clips are tight.

#352 45 days ago
Quoted from frunch:

I have to admit my knowledge is limited, as my mpu was working when i bought my game (though it had other issues).
I would definitely keep going on the direction you're heading though, if the game doesn't boot up properly, it may be holding the blanking signal low which may result in all the coils firing (i had a similar experience with my Black Knight a while back, though this may or may not apply to this case)...
That said, you definitely want to get your 24vdc working properly or it won't boot anyway. I'd focus on that first. Check the 24vdc bridge rectifier on the power supply with your meter, shown in the image below:[quoted image]

1) I do not have a service manual for this one (I'll recheck the link above to see if there is one to download)
2) How do I check the Bridge Rectifier? I see the middle one for the 24v, but do not know how to check it?

#353 45 days ago

Testing a Bridge Rectifier.
The following test will check if a bridge has an open circuit or a short.

Turn the game off.
Put the DMM on diode setting.
Put the black lead of the DMM on the "+" (positive) terminal of the bridge.
Put the red lead of the DMM on either AC bridge terminal. Between .4 and .6 volts should be seen. Switch the red DMM lead to the other AC bridge terminal, and again .4 to .6 volts should be seen.
Put the red lead of the DMM on the "-" (negative terminal of the bridge.
Put the black lead of the DMM on either AC bridge terminal. Between .4 and .6 volts should be seen. Switch the black DMM lead to the other AC bridge terminal, and again .4 to .6 volts should be seen.

Couple other things i found:

Reset Line (First Step in a Non-Booting MPU board).
Before the CPU chip will start to run, the reset line on the Z-80 CPU chip U11 pin 26 must be high (5 volts). The reset circuit of the MPU board controls the reset; Upon power-on, U11 pin 26 is held low (0 volts) for a short period of time (50 milliseconds or so). This allows the 5 volt power supply to stablize. Then the reset circuit makes U11 pin 26 go to 5 volts. This is done using four transistor QA,QB,QC (2N3904) and QD (2N4403), a 1N4738 8.2 volt zener diode, and some resistors and caps. Unfortunately the reset circuit is right below the battery, so battery corrosion often ruins this circuit. If the reset circuit of the MPU board is not working, the MPU will *not* start to boot.

With the power to the MPU board on, use a DMM and check U11 pin 26. It should be 4.5 to 5.1 volts DC. With the power off and the DMM on and connected to U11 pin 26, turn the power on to the MPU board. The DMM should show 0 volts for just a brief moment, and then jump up to 4.7 to 5.1 volts. if it does this, the reset circuit is working. If U11 pin 26 stays at less than 4 volts, the reset circuit is faulty. Start by replacing the four transistor QA,QB,QC (2N3904) and QD (2N4403). Also it's a good idea to replace the 1N4738 8.2 volt zener diode (the Gameplan parts list calls or a 1N959B diode, but use a 1N4738 instead).
-------------------------
Zero Cross Circuit.
The MPU board requires 24 volts DC (+/- 6 volts) solenoid voltage to boot. This is used for a zero cross circuit. Even though the 24 volts is DC, it is not filtered with a filter capacitor. The voltage comes from the transformer and goes through a bridge rectifier on the power supply board. The bridge "full wave rectifies" the AC transformer voltage into rough DC. This rough DC is required for the zero cross circuit - if a filter capacitor was used to smooth the 24 volts, the zero cross circuit would not work!

#354 45 days ago

damn this day job! I want to go home and check all of this now! lol So appreciative of the help here. I'll report back...after work! ha!

#355 44 days ago

Well, now everyone will know how much of a newbie I am butttt - thought checking the bridge rectifier would be easy - especially with your step by step instructions. NO! lol How do I tell which of the 4 terminals are the negative, positive or the other 2 AC terminals?

I tried each of the 4, every which way to Sunday - and I'm not seeing .4 to .6 volts. Buttt- I could have my meter set wrong. (Another clue that I'm clueless!)

For the "Put the meter in diode setting" - are you referring to adjusting the read out to the lower levels (as in "range")? Or is there an actual "diode mode or setting"? And yes, I bought the "self adjusting" meter - thinking it would make my life easier. see attached photo of the meter (it's not a Fluke!)

I'll try the other items this evening, just to see what I may come up with.

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#356 44 days ago

And while I'm here - does anyone have a list of the rubbers needed for a Sharp Shooter? Sizes, qty's?

#357 44 days ago

Ok, so the diode test is here--the triangle with the vertical line at one point: 1467050095.png

It looks like that setting has 2 functions, continuity/beep test and diode test. When you turn the dial to that setting it will probably show one of those 2 symbols on the display. Using the Func key at the top left, you can likely toggle between the 2 settings. If you touch the probes together and it beeps, you're in continuity test. Once you have it set where it displays the diode symbol (and shouldn't beep when you touch the probes together), follow the tests from the previous post. I'm leaning towards a bad bridge, but we want to make sure before we proceed.

The bridge may have markings on the sides, there will be a +, a -, and two squiggly lines like this ~. The bridge may also have a corner that's different from the other 3, that may be denoting the + terminal (i think). If you don't get that 0.4-0.6 on diode test on *any* combination of terminals, it's very likely a bad bridge. Still, we should try to do the test correctly

#358 44 days ago

Thank you for the patience. Learned something today. Perfect. Actually tried that last night but wasn’t sure so quit. Armed with that info and per attached photo I get the following :

With the black lead on the upper left corner (thinking as it’s diff orientation maybe it’s the + ?)
Bottom left - .475
Bottom right - .393
Top right - .475

With the black lead on the upper right (just in case I’m backwards)
Bottom left - .0000
Bottom right - .47
Top left - .778

So by these I take it the item is bad?

And again - thanks for the info! If I’m not learning I’m dying !

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#359 44 days ago

Looks like you're on the right track! The lug that's oriented differently is most likely the + terminal. You can also test the other nearby bridges and compare their values to see if they come up similar. I can't say with 100% certainty that you have a bad bridge, but it's looking more likely!

#361 40 days ago

I also didn't see if you tested the ac voltage at the bridge. Did you have ~28 vac across the ac input to the bridge?

#362 40 days ago

Thanks guys! I'll get the rubbers on order now. I stripped the playfield over the weekend and started cleaning her inside & out, so will need those soon.

On actually getting her to work again :
All boards out and sent to a friend who does repairs. (I'm not up to that level yet, but trying) But he'll trouble shoot/bullet proof those.

Power supply - I did receive the Bridge Rectifier and installed (Simple things I can do! lol) - but I'm still seeing just 4.95V on TP4 (If it's actually right between the 2 connectors) I do see 29v at the small blob of solder right above the label for TP4 in the attached photo - so not sure I'm even testing at the correct location? You can see in the photo attached small scratched points where I was placing my lead. The paper label (previous owner?) looks to cover some and the link above was a little fuzzy on actual TP4 location. Is it really right between those two connectors, or just above and possible the "blob of solder" - and with the 29v I am now getting the correct readings?

If not, something else is wrong here.

Another note- if this 24v is for the actual solenoids, the coils all fire and stay on when I place the J3 pin on the SDB, so it looked like they were getting the 24v somehow? (Fuse keeps blowing to) - but possibly not sending the 24v to the MPU for proper boot up?

I was hoping I'd replace the bridge rectifier, get all TP's accurate readings, clean her up and be ready to throw the boards back in when finished and I'd have a working machine here..ugh So not sure the Power Supply is working correctly.

"I also didn't see if you tested the ac voltage at the bridge. Did you have ~28 vac across the ac input to the bridge?" = can you elaborate on that a bit, so I'll know what / how to test? Appreciate the info! (Greatly!!)

Thanks!

Sharp Shooter - Power Supply (resized).jpg
#363 40 days ago

Ok, the "odd" tab is "+" and the tab diagonal from it is is "-". The negatives of the bridges are all the same. you want to check the opposite tabs from those. Looks like Green/Brown and whatever the color is diagonally opposite.
Like this:

- (+) | (ac)

| (ac) | (-)

#364 40 days ago

Took a chance on a cheap Foxy Lady sight unseen......bad battery leak, oh well, lots of parts for my Star Trip if it can't be fixed.

#365 40 days ago
Quoted from frunch:

Here's an exhaustive guide to Game Plan repairs, came in very handy when i was fixing up my Sharpshooter.
http://www.pinrepair.com/gp/
I'd definitely start by verifying you have good voltages at the power supply. Section 2a lists the test points and voltages you should look for at them.

Ok upon closer view of the third photo in section2a - TP4 is the “blob” I referred to in my photo earlier. The written section states “test point is located between the two connectors on the left side” hence my dumbass thinking the farthest two on left edge. But the photo shows between the upper “edge” connector and the next one in to the right.

So now that I have the right TP4 location - I’m reading 28.8. (Looks to be in acceptable range)

Now that I have the correct voltages at all TP’s , i’ll Quit hi-jacking this topic.

I’ll report back Once boards are back and installed. Hoping if nothing else a newbie can learn from my lessons

#366 40 days ago

And so much thanks to the help here ! Amazing. Again. Seen other posts about jackasses here on PS in general (and have read some - ignore those ) but the help is truly amazing. Met some great friends thru here as well!

#367 40 days ago

Nice! Hard to say it was indeed a bad bridge, but your reading looks good now. Definitely keep us posted when you get the boards back!

#368 39 days ago

Good deal, I was going to mention I thought that loop was the test point but it's been a while since I was into mine. Parts are cheap, the experience invaluable.

#369 34 days ago

All boards back in and she’s now booting up and and I’m getting all score displays, sounds, switches all seem to work on the playfield, etc- but the same coils are still full on when the game starts until the fuse under the playfield blows (pop bumpers, kicker, bonus hole, out hole). The transistors have been checked. Happens when I even unplug the cables from the MPU to the SDB. So thinking chip U1 on the SDB? Anyone else have similar issue?

#370 34 days ago

Hmm. Can't find anything in the guide pertaining to this specific problem. Are all the coils firing when the connector is plugged in, or is it only certain ones?

When you sent the boards out, did they verify the solenoid driver board is working properly? (or did you just send the mpu?)

#371 34 days ago

Yes all fire at once. As soon as the connector makes contact. The board was only checked as far as the transistors. He couldn’t check the board overall at the time Seeing they fire even without the MPU connected and the T’s checked out on the SDB we're thinking that one chip (only common denominator to effect all). Will report back once checked out and hopefully working

#372 34 days ago

Cool, sounds like you're on the right track then. I was thinking similarly. Definitely keep us posted!

#373 34 days ago

Oh it’s “the wiz”. He’s been more than a mentor here in this hobby! Without the help here I’d be lost. But learning !!

#374 33 days ago

If I can remember, which could be a stretch, I had the same issue. Sharpshooter was my first SS pin. When I plugged the head in, I reversed 2 connectors that are the same or very close in color. After repairing almost every board in the machine I think I had the same issues. I think I had to replace 2 of the U2 I.C.'s. If I remember correctly, these are hard to come by and think I got some fakes off of eBay and did not work. Bought some used ones and they worked.

1 week later
#375 24 days ago

Thought I'd give an update on the Sharp Shooter. "The Wiz" got me a rebuilt SDB (sending him mine) but the replacement board had the same issues, so it was the 74154 "U1" chip as noted previously. (And he found a bad cap as well) - so this thing is finally working and playing like she should.

I do have a small issue/question - sometimes, not all the time, the ball will not register when draining and not kick out. Sometimes this happens on Ball 3, sometimes on ball 4 and then again sometimes on ball 5. Most times I can get the full game, 5 balls. It's so intermittent?? I've replaced the diode on the switch, adjusted the switch, re-soldered the wires to the switch, ran thru the diagnostics and the coil fires each time during the tests. When it does happen, I can power off/on and she takes off like she should and get the 5 balls again.

Anyone else have a similar issue? Any ideas to chase down? Any & all help/tips are appreciated!

IMG_8900 (resized).jpg
#376 24 days ago

"frunch" and "slgerber" - thanks for the support while getting this one going. Amazing help here on Pinside, great peeps!

#377 24 days ago

Happy to help!

Have you re-pinned the connector for the switches that plugs into the mpu at J5?

Next time the problem happens, put the game into switch test and see if the game is detecting the switch. While you're at it, you may want to go around and test all the playfield switches to make sure it's the only one that's trouble.

#378 24 days ago

will do! Thanks!

#379 21 days ago

During coil test the kickout hole fires the ball out.each time When activating the test button again it shows number 240. I take it this is switch 240 for the kickout. The swtich is open until the ball closes it. What am I missing here?

#380 21 days ago

240 is the kickout hole switch number, so it looks like everything is functioning properly. Is it possible the outhole switch needs to be adjusted so there's less tension on the actuating (upper) leaf of the switch? Maybe the ball only has enough momentum to push the switch closed if the ball goes quickly out of play, but may not have enough to push the switch closed if it slowly rolls out of play. Based on what your seeing, it seems like it's just gonna be a matter of adjusting the outhole switch...perhaps to make it easier for the ball to push the switch closed. You may have to experiment a bit, but luckily the switch can be adjusted with the coin door opened (if i remember correctly)...

#381 17 days ago

Well one problem solved another pops up. Again this is on a Sharp Shooter. And the bonus hole. When points are lit up - it kicks out. When no points (or bonus lights) are lit - it keeps the ball and doesn’t kick out

I’ve looked at the switch to make sure it’s working correctly. Seems to be???

Is there something else that could be causing this issue ? Possibly something that ties no lights / bonus available - it doesn’t register for some reason?

#382 16 days ago

Started a retheme restoration topic today.

Love my Sharp Shooter II, hated the artwork.

Check it out here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/game-plan-sharpshooter-ii-i-m-feeling-older#post-5235886

#383 16 days ago
Quoted from Nikrox2:

Well one problem solved another pops up. Again this is on a Sharp Shooter. And the bonus hole. When points are lit up - it kicks out. When no points (or bonus lights) are lit - it keeps the ball and doesn’t kick out

Just to be clear: you're still having trouble with the outhole? That is very strange indeed. If possible, I'd like to see a video of this behavior.

When you put the game into switch test, are any switches stuck closed? Make sure to reset drop targets and remove ball before beginning test.

Also, i know I've asked but i can't remember what you said: have the connectors between the cabinet and backbox been replaced?

#384 16 days ago

Nope, this time it's the "bonus" hole towards the top (around the loop area??) I think adjusting the switch on the outhole has fixed that issue (bent the more rigid blade in the middle seems to have resolved that issue)

So when there are the lights lit up - for say 2x, 3x, 5x - it will kick the ball out. If not bonus lights are lit, it will not kick the ball out Although I've seen this intermittent, it seems like if no lights are lit, it keeps it???

Reading other posts, I'll check the switches on all of the rollovers in the loop, perhaps that could be an issue?

I have not replaced the connectors, although it looks like someone had done so before I got the game (they're numbered now, and even colored coded)

#385 16 days ago

Ok cool-we're making some progress. Does the switch in the bonus hole work consistently in switch test? Like i said, check to be sure no other switches are stuck. I'd get a closer look at the bonus hole switch, make sure everything looks ok there--that the switch leaves are adjusted properly, wiring isn't mashed together or anything like that.

#386 16 days ago

Thank you sir! Will be tearing back into her tonight. I'll keep you posted (so others may learn from my issues..lol)

#387 15 days ago

The bonus hole should work regardless of the rollovers. Give the switch a good cleaning a crisp 100 dollar bill or an eraser (careful not to bend the switch). Make sure to test the switches with a ball (assume you are doing this anyhow). I have trouble with the rollovers not always registering so I may add caps to those switches some point.

#388 15 days ago
Quoted from slgerber:

I have trouble with the rollovers not always registering so I may add caps to those switches some point.

I've considered doing the same. I've always wondered if maybe the ball is lifting slightly off the pf as it flies around the u-turn, missing some of the switches on really fast shots. I don't have the problem if the ball is moving slowly. Whatever the case, I guess a 0.05 uf cap would suffice for those switches?

#389 15 days ago

These seem to light up / register - but when no bonus lights (are these from the roll overs?) that’s then the ball stays in the bonus hole and it doesn’t kick out

It is somewhat “intermittent “. So perhaps the thorough cleaning will do.

Didn’t have time last evening but jumping in it later today. Will post back

Again - this help is so appreciated !

#390 15 days ago

If I only had a crisp $100 bill!

#391 14 days ago

Another update. Cleaned and adjusted the two switches. Both the Outhole and the Bonus. All played well (manually rolling the ball hard and soft into the bonus hole). And sure enough both are still acting up.

Bonus hole - not kicking out all the time. Periodically. But bothersome. With or without lights lit for points (although it does chime and award point each time. I can roll it in and out. Points award. No kick out )

Outhole - again periodically but say every third game. Ball 3 or 4. It won’t register the ball drain or kickout the ball. Ugh

I’ve attached photos of both areas. Diode bad? SDB issues ?

I’ve unplugged each connector and tried to be sure each wire was connecting (head to playfield ). As well as those on the boards.

1579DFC8-4879-4040-AE43-9B30605249AB (resized).jpeg3160EAEA-30EC-4834-95B7-2E826ED6C0DE (resized).jpeg389D7190-098A-42C5-A70F-26A2F4008A4E (resized).jpeg474A759C-1DA2-4860-9EA7-81007E817AB0 (resized).jpegAD1B2DB7-EF08-46AA-A0CB-18285E897188 (resized).jpegB8D4B5E7-F652-42EA-A94C-30CAB603D852 (resized).jpegDC48CA88-1ED5-4FEB-9EE5-DAAC3BBAED53 (resized).jpegEFDDE5DC-14E1-41D1-828F-CB501543A168 (resized).jpeg
#392 14 days ago

If either quits working. I can power off and back on and then each kicks out as they should. Even if the ball is still in the bonus hole

Just ran thru a complete game. Rolled ball in bonus no issue. Full 5 balls. Next game - ball won’t register drain on ball 2.

Turn off and she’s playing again. Weird

#393 14 days ago

Have you replaced the female connectors that plug into J5 and J6 on the mpu (the switch matrix connectors)? I'm thinking maybe a bad/intermittent connection at one of them...

#394 14 days ago

I have not. Tried pushing in each wire on the connector (traced the one from the outhole to the connector to the mpu j5. ). But could still be the issue.

Now that I’ve gotten a lot closer with the connectors between head and cab - these have been coded but I think their still orig

Oily like they’ve been covered with something. Ugh.

So may need to start replacing connectors here

#395 13 days ago

I can almost guarantee that's the source of your problem. If those connectors are original, you'll probably notice some blue/green corrosion on some of the pins--for whatever reason those connectors are often found in that condition. It's a lot of re-pinning, but i don't think you'll really have the game bullet-proof until you do that.

#396 13 days ago

Guessing the same for now. I took apart each of the connectors (several. Lol). Cleaned inside the male area but inside the other is probably where I’m having issues no doubt. Can’t clean there. Didn’t see a lot of the green goo seemed but they were all pretty “oily”(?)

#397 12 days ago

circling back here on my issues, think I need to re-pin the larger connectors between the head and cab , or replace the end connectors altogether for J5 & J6 to the mpu?

If these are std pins, I can (I think) re-pin the larger connectors between the head and cab. If it's the smaller connectors for the mpu (J5 & J6), where can I find those connectors and pins? (They look a lot smaller)

#398 12 days ago

If it were my game, I'd replace the head to cabinet connectors (a must) and also the connectors at J5 and J6. It's a bit tricky, because the head/cab connectors are 0.084--a size I've only encountered on Game Plan games. The old housings can be reused, but you'd need a pin extractor for that specific size, which could be fairly expensive ($20-40?). Otherwise, you'll need new housings and new connector pins (and a whole lot of patience doing the tedious work, lol) for those connectors between the head and cab. Here's the link to my favorite electronics supplier, Great Plains Electronics. This will take you to the 0.084" connector section: https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=2

Could you post pics of J5 + J6? If they're the smaller size headers, they're probably 0.1" pins. I'll be able to tell from the pics though. Almost all pinball circuit board connectors are either 0.156" or 0.1" for the most part. GPE also sells those connector pins and housings in both sizes: 0.1" https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/categories.asp?cat=70

0.156": https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/categories.asp?cat=37

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