(Topic ID: 71772)

Game Plan owners club. Welcome!

By SpOoKyRiDeS

8 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 days ago by Robotworkshop
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There are 803 posts in this topic. You are on page 16 of 17.
#751 63 days ago
Quoted from MrBigg:

Yes that's my problem as well. As stated, all my pins are good, all my lights are good, and all my grounds, and sockets are good. I found another old light card on ebay, and ordered it. Scrs will ne my next check, but just seems odd that every single light on 2 different connectors, j6 and j8 won't fire only on the special lighting, and everything else works just fine? Including all the other lighting. Is it possible the LED swap could be causing this? desertT1 did you swap to LED or are domyou still have old bulbs installed?

Mine is still all incandescent bulbs. I grounded a few and they light up, so it’s not a situation where 100% are burned out.

#752 62 days ago
Quoted from desertT1:

I think we are in similar situations.

My bet is with Robotworkshop I have fixed a sharpshooter and a Coney Island, on both you could pull apart the captain crunch connectors to the head and they looked ok but when you put them back together they don't work.....replaced the connectors on the sharpshooter with better connectors and repinned the coney island both worked 100 percent when done .....there is no way that I have found to clean all the corrosion off the inside of the female pins plus the corrosion eats away at the plating of the pins so even if the connection seemed clean it was still bad ....if your machine has been sitting for years this would ultimately be my first step because it will cause future problems

#753 60 days ago
Quoted from the9gman:

My bet is with Robotworkshop I have fixed a sharpshooter and a Coney Island, on both you could pull apart the captain crunch connectors to the head and they looked ok but when you put them back together they don't work.....replaced the connectors on the sharpshooter with better connectors and repinned the coney island both worked 100 percent when done .....there is no way that I have found to clean all the corrosion off the inside of the female pins plus the corrosion eats away at the plating of the pins so even if the connection seemed clean it was still bad ....if your machine has been sitting for years this would ultimately be my first step because it will cause future problems

You must have not seen the part where I fired them from the card with 6.3 volts, and everyone worked fine. So it's definitely not the connectors from the head to the table. It's either in my lighting card, or it's not being told to fire those lights. Working on narrowing that down now

#754 60 days ago

price lowered OBO

#755 60 days ago

Machine - For Sale
Sharp Shooter II Archived
Used - shows wear but 100% working and clean “Nice condition classic Game Plan Sharp Shooter II pinball machine. fully working, no issues, new rubbers and LEDs, cabinet has been touched up in places but looks good. all origina...”
2022-06-05
Warren, MI
1,400 (OBO)
Archived after: 40 days
Viewed: 363 times
Status: Didn't sell to Pinsider

#756 59 days ago
Quoted from MrBigg:

You must have not seen the part where I fired them from the card

your right I didn't but it could still be in the plug with the strobe signals

#757 59 days ago
Quoted from the9gman:

your right I didn't but it could still be in the plug with the strobe signals

I appreciate the thought, but I'm way past that point. Every single light came on from the the pins on the card, and every pin had strong continuity from card to each individual lamp base.
I'm down to scrs, or 4514 chips now. I have another lamp card coming in the mail, that is possibly bad as well, but then I can do some comparisons, and not screw up a possibly good card.

1 week later
#758 52 days ago

OK so all connectors cleaned again (both sets, board, and big ones from head to table), scrs checked, and even swapped another board I just got in from ebay with exact same results. So now I'm curious as to what triggers these lights from another card possibly, and if there is possibly another fuse I'm not seeing? I'm going to track down the ground on all these lights next and see if they are tied together. It is only the multiplier lights, and the coney island letters. All other lights work, and function properly, including head unit, and all table lights. It's just a particular set. Is there supposed to be a cable connected on the light board at the red circle, or is that a spare for another type pin table?

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#759 52 days ago

Btw does anyone know the equivalent ice cube relay to the sigma 67R4-24DC?

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#760 52 days ago
Quoted from MrBigg:

Btw does anyone know the equivalent ice cube relay to the sigma 67R4-24DC?
[quoted image]

I think Coney Island only came with one relay. Only a couple games used the extra one.

#761 52 days ago

relay is not used in Coney Island or Sharpshooter only used in cyclops and some other game which I can't remember ...that plug is not use in coney island either....again if I had to guess I would say one or more of your strobe signals is missing or shorted to ground by a bad diode .....each strobe controls a bank of lights when I put together my new cpu I screwed up strobe 3 and lost SH in shooter (drop targets) and the bonus rollovers . I would check the bad lights to see if the strobe is there ....if its not then you have to trace it back to where you find it

strobe signal (resized).png
#762 52 days ago
Quoted from the9gman:

relay is not used in Coney Island or Sharpshooter only used in cyclops and some other game which I can't remember ...that plug is not use in coney island either....again if I had to guess I would say one or more of your strobe signals is missing or shorted to ground by a bad diode .....each strobe controls a bank of lights when I put together my new cpu I screwed up strobe 3 and lost SH in shooter (drop targets) and the bonus rollovers . I would check the bad lights to see if the strobe is there ....if its not then you have to trace it back to where you find it[quoted image]

Can you elaborate on the strobe from the MPU a little bit? What did you do and what did you check, and then how did you resolve that? I’d love to check my SSII against what you did.

#763 50 days ago

so what happens is there are several strobes ...highlighted in the pdf ...its the way the MPU can detect 42 switch activations with only 13 lines. each strobe has slightly different timing and in conjunction with the line it is returned on. .that is how the MPU determines which switch has been activated and will perform the action of scoring the points and turning on the appropriate light. The diodes on each switch block the signals on non affected switches. so that only the switch that has been activated will perform the desired function. the Strobes come out the top white plug J5 and they look like the signal above on the oscope pic ....I would first make sure that I am getting strobe 0 thru 7 out on that plug ....in my case I was missing one on the plug but I had it on the resistor therefore it was a broken trace on the board ....easy fix ....if you are getting all the strobes I would then make sure I didn't have an open return line because an open line will also affect many lights ....If one strobe is missing, the strobe line could be shorted or open and you will have to trace down the short or open. same with the return lines

strobes.pdf
#764 50 days ago

sorry, that same section on your SSII schematic will show you what strobes and returns will affect what lights and scoring functions

#765 49 days ago

Does anyone have a spare cocktail display board DDU-1 working or not you could sell? Looking for one to help build a test jig. Please PM if you have one.

#766 49 days ago
Quoted from the9gman:

sorry, that same section on your SSII schematic will show you what strobes and returns will affect what lights and scoring functions

Cool info. Hopefully I’ll get to dig into it in the next few days with my o-scope wielding friend so all this info will help as we poke and prod.

Listening to the latest Silverball Chronicles episode they mentioned doing a Gameplan episode at some point, so that’ll be cool.

#767 49 days ago

I'm working on a Sharpshooter II project. One thing left to resolve is an annoying hum in the sound. I read one thread where someone relocated the volume control near the board to clear it up. It is hard to believe it had this hum since day one and that the volume control should have to be moved. Has anyone run into this before? I have replaced all the round green .1uf disc caps since those were known to be troublesome. Checked the electrolytic caps that those were within spec. May look at all the tantalum caps next since I've had some from that time frame that tend to fail shorted.

Looking for other suggestions to get this resolved.

#768 48 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I'm working on a Sharpshooter II project. One thing left to resolve is an annoying hum in the sound. I read one thread where someone relocated the volume control near the board to clear it up. It is hard to believe it had this hum since day one and that the volume control should have to be moved. Has anyone run into this before? I have replaced all the round green .1uf disc caps since those were known to be troublesome. Checked the electrolytic caps that those were within spec. May look at all the tantalum caps next since I've had some from that time frame that tend to fail shorted.
Looking for other suggestions to get this resolved.

What I noticed is that the hum and buzzing sounds change and get better or worse depending on what lamps are lit. This machine has some LED's in the GI and some on the playfield. I may try changing them all out to #47 bulbs to see if the LED's are contributing to the noise.

I'd be interested in an extra lamp board to keep on hand for testing. Would be interesting to see if a bad SCR or something else on that card contributes to the noise. Will be worth getting an extra board.

So at the moment I am on the lookout for:

One DDU-1 cocktail display board (having the ribbon cable would be a plus)

One LDU-2 lamp driver board

Working or not are fine.

#769 47 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

What I noticed is that the hum and buzzing sounds change and get better or worse depending on what lamps are lit

would be interesting to see what would happen if you put an RF choke on the 12V sound board power line

#770 44 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I'm working on a Sharpshooter II project. One thing left to resolve is an annoying hum in the sound. I read one thread where someone relocated the volume control near the board to clear it up. It is hard to believe it had this hum since day one and that the volume control should have to be moved. Has anyone run into this before? I have replaced all the round green .1uf disc caps since those were known to be troublesome. Checked the electrolytic caps that those were within spec. May look at all the tantalum caps next since I've had some from that time frame that tend to fail shorted.
Looking for other suggestions to get this resolved.

So I may actually be able to help on this one.... so hum is obviously caused by rf interference typically, and although a choke might help, usually the output side of the Amp ckt, or power to speaker ckt, is pushed to hard to generate volume. I have found on other devices, that installing a small potentiometer across the resistors on the output side can help reduce hum, and the amount of output across the Amp. I'm not sure on a gameplan which resistor this is, but I have seen this work on numerous other devices such as guitar amps, etc. Another possible solution would be what musicians call a ground lift. It's basically a an option to replace a ground ckt with an isolated option to remove noise. I'll include a photo to help. I'm not at your genious level, but as a musician, and electrician, I have some limited ability.

Oh and latest on my coney island, I ordered new molex connectors by yalls advice, and will update after they arrive, and are installed. New blip since I started fooling with those 15 pin big connectors, ball won't eject from lane to shoot, so I'll replace all 7 15 pin, a 9 pin, and the 3 pin for power, and start again.

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#771 44 days ago

What size legs are these games meant to have? My game came with a pair of 28.5” and a pair of 31”. With the levelers all the way in it makes it about 7*.

While we are at it, are these the right flipper coils? At the 7* my game is at these still feel a little strong. Spinner tips are nice but shots to the saucer bounce out more than they sit.

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#772 40 days ago
Quoted from desertT1:

What size legs are these games meant to have? My game came with a pair of 28.5” and a pair of 31”. With the levelers all the way in it makes it about 7*.
While we are at it, are these the right flipper coils? At the 7* my game is at these still feel a little strong. Spinner tips are nice but shots to the saucer bounce out more than they sit.
[quoted image]

What game do you have? I think most use a 21-50002B coil for the flippers. Not sure what that coil is currently on your game. You can get the correct coils from pbresource.com

My Sharpshooter uses the standard 28.5" legs all around. I haven't head of any using different length legs on the front and back. Only machine I know that does that is a Gottlieb Haunted House but there are probably others.

#773 40 days ago
Quoted from the9gman:

would be interesting to see what would happen if you put an RF choke on the 12V sound board power line

Well I did try a separate inline 12V DC/DC converter to see if the HUM was caused by the 12V unregulated supply. That is often a solution for the HUM on the Data East games that many are known to have an annoying hum. Unfortunately that didn't help not did any jumpers tying grounds together (similar to the ground mods on a Gottlieb)

I'm not the first to run into this. There is a thread about the issue and at least one person with a Lizard hears the same thing:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/game-plan-sharpshooter-2-has-annoying-hum

It seems that moving the volume control to the backbox may have made a difference in that case. I am going to see if I have a spare volume control pot I can use.

I've re-capped the audio board (Electrolytic and Tantalum) but that didn't seem to do much. Not sure if these were always noisy if the audio amp was never optimized or if it is not normal and there is something I haven't found yet.

#774 40 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

There is a thread about the issue

the explanation on that thread makes a lot of sense we had the same kind of issues on aircraft interphone systems where induced EMI was a problem. Putting the pot as close to the sound board as possible would either prove or eliminate that possibility. Also looking at the routing of the volume pot line, the design is bad because it is directly tied into the bundle with all the strobes going to the playfield....you could seperate the line to the pot from the bundle and also seperate the speaker wires from that same bundle as they are not shielded and could also be providing feedback on the output side. Its funny they changed the design between sharpshooter and sharpshooter II....if they would have left the soundboard in the cabinet you probably wouldn't have the issue

#775 40 days ago
Quoted from the9gman:

the explanation on that thread makes a lot of sense we had the same kind of issues on aircraft interphone systems where induced EMI was a problem. The thing I find interesting is there is not that much of a difference other then paint on the original sharpshooter and sharpshooter II so I wonder what the difference is ? putting the pot as close to the sound board as possible would either prove or eliminate that possibility

The sound is totally different between Sharpshooter I and II. Sharpshooter I has the sound board located in the lower cabinet on the right side. It has a volume control right on the board that you can reach in through the coin door to adjust. It uses a few of the old dedicated TI sound chips.

Sharpshooter II relocated the sound board in the head with the other boards. Instead of the TI sound chips it is a more modern microprocessor controlled board. The volume control is in the front of the cabinet so it is far away from the board.

#776 40 days ago

sorry you replied to my first post which I was probably editing after I realized my error .......but the routing in the bundle is a prime candidate for induced noise

#777 40 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

What game do you have? I think most use a 21-50002B coil for the flippers. Not sure what that coil is currently on your game. You can get the correct coils from pbresource.com
My Sharpshooter uses the standard 28.5" legs all around. I haven't head of any using different length legs on the front and back. Only machine I know that does that is a Gottlieb Haunted House but there are probably others.

The coils in my game are a Williams part number. I think a list of System 6ish games came up when I found the part number. I’ll order the right coils and see what happens. With my 7* slope thanks to the long back legs the ball is flying all over the place and one plastic guide is broken. More will follow if things stay as they are.

Sharpshooter 2 by the way, since I don’t think I mentioned that.

#778 40 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

The sound is totally different between Sharpshooter I and II.

The output amplifier stage is the same between them, obviously the impedance of the circuit before it is different and the volume trimmer being local on SS1 eliminates that volume control cable carrying pre-amplified audio becoming an antenna to noise that SS2 does.

If I owned the game I'd consider making a sound board J2 interface board that implemented classic Sterns volume attenuator design with a MC3340. Then again once I set the volume on my games I pretty much never adjust them again so moving the volume pot into the head isn't a big deal for me.

#779 39 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

The output amplifier stage is the same between them, obviously the impedance of the circuit before it is different and the volume trimmer being local on SS1 eliminates that volume control cable carrying pre-amplified audio becoming an antenna to noise that SS2 does.
If I owned the game I'd consider making a sound board J2 interface board that implemented classic Sterns volume attenuator design with a MC3340. Then again once I set the volume on my games I pretty much never adjust them again so moving the volume pot into the head isn't a big deal for me.

I put a 50K audio trimmer in the head on short wires about 2.5” from the board. All the annoying hum is gone. Really happy with how it sounds now.

Had nothing to do with power, etc. Seems like it wasn’t the best design choice the way they relocated the audio control in the cabinet. If they had use the control to just set the gain instead of sending the audio signal itself all the way to the control it may have been ok. As you mention maybe some sort of mod to the board would allow the original control to be used successfully later on.

I just popped out the three pins going to the original control and will tape them up leaving that all intact. I crimped need pins on three short wires soldered to the new control and clipped them in the original housing. It is a really simple and in this case effective fix.

If Gameplan had stayed in business longer they probably would have had some sort of tech update about the sound with some sort of fix.

#780 39 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I put a 50K audio trimmer in the head on short wires about 2.5” from the board. All the annoying hum is gone. Really happy with how it sounds now.

Excellent, great to hear!

#781 38 days ago

Good deal on sound issue. I kind of thought moving, or adjusting gain might work. Too much push into a board with all that opportunity for interference always causes problems...
So the latest on my game plan, I now have revolving issues popping up, but my new molex connectors came in, and I've begun the painstaking task of swapping all the orinals for new connectors. This may possibly rank up as high as top 5 most boring thing I've ever done, lol. Close to watching paint dry. Hopefully this will help some of my continual mystery issues. To be extra sure of my connections, I'm crimping, and soldering each pin.

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#782 38 days ago

What's tje situation as far as adding LEDs to inserts, specifically Sharpshooter II? Are they good to go, or do they need resistors or Yoppcycles?

#783 38 days ago
Quoted from desertT1:

What's tje situation as far as adding LEDs to inserts, specifically Sharpshooter II? Are they good to go, or do they need resistors or Yoppcycles?

I haven’t tried any yet in the inserts but it should be very close to the early Bally and Stern since the lamp driver is close.

In the past I’ve use the Comet Optix LEDs with good results on Early Bally and Stern without the resistors.

#784 37 days ago

Well my little issues went away after installing new connectors, however this did nothing for my "special lighting" problem. Same lights are still out, coney island! Letters, the incremental bonus lights, and the lights for the kickout bonuses. Everything else is working perfectly now. So to recant, I've checked fuses, I have the -7 volts on on the questionable lights, I have good scrs, I have new connectors, I have a good ground. I guess, maybe switches, or a stuck blade will be my next search. I'm starting to get frustrated on this one, but I'll continue the hunt. Has to be something they all have in common, especially since it's 2 different plugs, and 2 different outputs on lighting board, j6 and j8, to make them all not work at the same time. Is it possible the LED bulbs are the cause? Maybe I'll try that next?

#785 34 days ago

Any tips and tricks to prevent this? I can do it on both sides if I trap up and let the flipper drop. Game is at 5* currently.

5E8EB0EB-4103-4098-A3AF-AC7FBF66879D (resized).jpeg
1 week later
#786 22 days ago

This started happening recently. No idea what is causing it and power cycling it will make it go away, but only for a random short period of time. Thoughts?

1 week later
#787 11 days ago

Just an update on my lighting issue. Turns out the "special lighting" is reverse polarity with a negative 6.3 volts on those particular bulbs. LEDs will not work unless reverse polarity bulbs are bought and used in special scoring sockets. Put incandescent bulbs in, problem solved. Wasn't connectors, sockets, card, or power, just a wonky triggering system on the coney island. Thanks for all the help, fully restored Coney Island nearly complete now. Minor touch up in paint to go on surround I had to replace on back glass that had swelled, and rotted from moisture.

#788 11 days ago

My first machine was a Sharpshooter. Came with a spare playfield mostly populated. I've been eyeing it lately, and this thread isn't helping!

Glad to see so much love here. And moreso, replacement parts like boards and targets!

#789 11 days ago
Quoted from RonSS:

My first machine was a Sharpshooter. Came with a spare playfield mostly populated. I've been eyeing it lately, and this thread isn't helping!
Glad to see so much love here. And moreso, replacement parts like boards and targets!

Sharpshooter is a great game. Working on some upgraded alternative code for it with a new sound package.

#790 11 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Sharpshooter is a great game. Working on some upgraded alternative code for it with a new sound package.

That's why I've kept the playfield. Been thinking "someday " I'd build one with new code.

- - - - - - -

Any preference between SS1 and SS2 here? I realize it's basically the same game. Does one play better than the other? Is one less desirable than the other?

#791 11 days ago
Quoted from RonSS:

That's why I've kept the playfield. Been thinking "someday " I'd build one with new code.
- - - - - - -
Any preference between SS1 and SS2 here? I realize it's basically the same game. Does one play better than the other? Is one less desirable than the other?

There is a difference in the upper left of the playfield where there is an extra path for the ball to come back down through the spinner. But overall very similar.

#792 8 days ago

Could someone just verify if the CONEY! drop target bank has a bar across to assist the coil in resetting the drop targets. Mine fires but if all the targets are down, not enough to lift them right up. It sure looks like a rod should have been across to the other side.

Also has anyone had issues with the outhole not working? Seems like I have good connections, it fires when I ground it, but not working in game. My diagnostic is also not firing any solenoids, though they all work in game play. [except outhole]

#793 7 days ago

Is there a kit or a list of all the caps I should replace in the sound board of a SSII?

#794 7 days ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Is there a kit or a list of all the caps I should replace in the sound board of a SSII?

What is the problem you are trying to solve?

#795 7 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

What is the problem you are trying to solve?

It will do this after a random amount of time. Sometimes it is 5 minutes, sometimes it’s 45 minutes.

#796 6 days ago
Quoted from desertT1:

It will do this after a random amount of time. Sometimes it is 5 minutes, sometimes it’s 45 minutes.

When that occurs can you unplug the connector on the MPU board going to the sound card? At least that will confirm that the MPU isn't trying to send it something.

That is an odd issue. I went through and re-capped my SS2 sound board but I had a different issue. Was trying to resolve an annoying hum. Ended up popping out the three pins going to the volume control in the cabinet and then used a new volume control pot on short 2" wires right at the sound card. Eliminated all the annoying hum. You may want to try something similar first in case it is picking up noise from the volume control like mine was.

#797 4 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

When that occurs can you unplug the connector on the MPU board going to the sound card? At least that will confirm that the MPU isn't trying to send it something.
That is an odd issue. I went through and re-capped my SS2 sound board but I had a different issue. Was trying to resolve an annoying hum. Ended up popping out the three pins going to the volume control in the cabinet and then used a new volume control pot on short 2" wires right at the sound card. Eliminated all the annoying hum. You may want to try something similar first in case it is picking up noise from the volume control like mine was.

I put the sound board back in and had it on and playing for hours today. The beeping didn’t happen in all that time, so maybe it was a connector with a bad connection and reseating it did the trick. Will pull the connector to the MPU if it happens again and see what that does.

#798 3 days ago

I just ran into a similar issue with sound on a Bally Motordome. Ended up making a new EPROM for the sound card.

You may want to try reseating those chips on your sound board.

#799 2 days ago

Can someone post a picture of the ribbon cable ends (both sides) for the cocktail machines? I need to make up one of the cables for testing and want to make sure I get the orientation of the connectors correct.

Thanks!

#800 2 days ago
Quoted from guard:

Could someone just verify if the CONEY! drop target bank has a bar across to assist the coil in resetting the drop targets. Mine fires but if all the targets are down, not enough to lift them right up. It sure looks like a rod should have been across to the other side.
Also has anyone had issues with the outhole not working? Seems like I have good connections, it fires when I ground it, but not working in game. My diagnostic is also not firing any solenoids, though they all work in game play. [except outhole]

I’ll check mine today!

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