(Topic ID: 71772)

Game Plan owners club. Welcome!

By SpOoKyRiDeS

8 years ago


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  • Latest reply 3 days ago by Robotworkshop
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#651 4 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Sounds good. Will be interesting to hear what you find. Sounds like you have the right tools to do it. I don't have to pull out the Fluke often but it can really help in cases like this. It helped me find the issues on a troublesome repair relating to that last ROM on the last board I fixed.
Using the Fluke to verify what ROM image the Z-80 sees can help. Maybe it can be fixed by burning a new ROM. Or buy burning a new ROM and altering an address like or two that go to it if it was never setup to accommodate a large enough ROM image. If that is the issue then I don't think it would be too hard to come up with a fix.

I can't stress how much time the Fluke 90 has saved working on mpus, especially when it comes to finding a bad trace in the data bus, or diagnosing which ram/rom is bad!

#652 4 months ago

Over the last few months I have been doing a significant amount of work on Sharpshooter (actually a pair of them) and am at the point where I can work on custom code for Sharpshooter to make an alternative enhanced version of the game. It is a good playing game an thinking about what additional modes, etc I should add. I have a couple in mind but any suggestions are welcome. As long as I didn't make any major mistakes, the hardware should be done this evening and I can focus on coding.

I've found lot of great western sounds and some music. If you come across any good western theme music for the background or WAV files with breaking glass, different ricochet sounds, or anything similar that can be used please let me know. I've found some and the music is stuck in my head as I've been soldering my prototype board up.

An additional mode that I just thought up could be a round up mode where you have to make the shot around the loop for the kickout hole to lasso the critters that are getting a way.

If you want an idea on what is possible look at YouTube videos on Meteor 2021 and compare that with the original. I'll probably start a dedicated thread about it once I get the base game playing on the new MPU.

#653 4 months ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Numerous glitches. When drop targets are down, the spot targets behind them do not register hits. The captive ball switch doesn't register hits.
There's just no working ruleset, it's all scrambled. I have run the switch test and every switch registers in test.

So, the Echo Lake board inside Cyclopes works as expected to me. I confirmed:
1. Spot targets work when drop targets are down
2. Captive ball always registers
3. Drop targets reset as expected, saucer kickouts work, multiball etc.

The things I can think of that it could be on your game not working:
1. You do have an issue with your Echo Lake board
2. You need a new ROM
3. You have a playfield "issue":
3a. Fish paper behind drop targets missing and maybe shorting things out when they drop somehow? (pic attached)
3b. Missing capacitors on the standup targets (so they are not registering all of the time)
3c. Diode on the switch matrix is shorted that shares the targets (seems unlikely since that would be each diode on the targets)

3a. and 3b. would be the easiest to check. To help, I attached pics of the areas of my playfield.
For #2, if you PM me your address, I can send you a copy of the ROM I have in the Echo Lake board for Cyclopes.

Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Sounds good. Will be interesting to hear what you find. Sounds like you have the right tools to do it. I don't have to pull out the Fluke often but it can really help in cases like this. It helped me find the issues on a troublesome repair relating to that last ROM on the last board I fixed.
Using the Fluke to verify what ROM image the Z-80 sees can help. Maybe it can be fixed by burning a new ROM. Or buy burning a new ROM and altering an address like or two that go to it if it was never setup to accommodate a large enough ROM image. If that is the issue then I don't think it would be too hard to come up with a fix.

So I didn't end up using the Fluke 90, since it seems to be working. I did take a pic of the MPU-2 that was in it from the bottom. It has some jumpers on it that look to be from the factory (consistent, doesn't look reflowed, same gauge / color -age as the 7th digit jumper). I will document the cut&straps for 3 2732s. The only schematic I have is for the MPU2-rev2 (pic attached, does have the reset circuit though), which most of the ones out there are the Rev1's.

left-drop-targets (resized).jpgleft-target-bank (resized).jpgright-drop-targets (resized).jpgright-target-bank (resized).jpgmpu2-rev2-schematic (resized).jpgmpu2-rev2-three2732s (resized).jpg
#654 4 months ago
Quoted from pinballj:

So, the Echo Lake board inside Cyclopes works as expected to me. I confirmed:
1. Spot targets work when drop targets are down
2. Captive ball always registers
3. Drop targets reset as expected, saucer kickouts work, multiball etc.
The things I can think of that it could be on your game not working:
1. You do have an issue with your Echo Lake board
2. You need a new ROM
3. You have a playfield "issue":
3a. Fish paper behind drop targets missing and maybe shorting things out when they drop somehow? (pic attached)
3b. Missing capacitors on the standup targets (so they are not registering all of the time)
3c. Diode on the switch matrix is shorted that shares the targets (seems unlikely since that would be each diode on the targets)
3a. and 3b. would be the easiest to check. To help, I attached pics of the areas of my playfield.
For #2, if you PM me your address, I can send you a copy of the ROM I have in the Echo Lake board for Cyclopes.

So I didn't end up using the Fluke 90, since it seems to be working. I did take a pic of the MPU-2 that was in it from the bottom. It has some jumpers on it that look to be from the factory (consistent, doesn't look reflowed, same gauge / color -age as the 7th digit jumper). I will document the cut&straps for 3 2732s. The only schematic I have is for the MPU2-rev2 (pic attached, does have the reset circuit though), which most of the ones out there are the Rev1's.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I wonder why others had issues with the Echo Lake board? Hopefully a new ROM just fixes it and that problem goes away. If it pops up at least there are some of us that have the tools to identify the root cause and come up with a fix that will put it to rest.

That's odd they put caps on the drop targets! Really weird. I've only seen them added to switches that may not register to stretch he pulse seen by the MPU. Drops are either up or down. I'll say it again. Caps on the drops are just odd.

I added some caps to both my Gameplan machines. But they were for the flippers. Added caps across the EOS switches and also the cabinet flipper leaf switches. Pretty much eliminated the arching. I had just rebuilt flippers and installed new EOS switches. After seeing the arching decided to add caps to both. Problem solved.

#655 4 months ago
Quoted from pinballj:

So, the Echo Lake board inside Cyclopes works as expected to me. I confirmed:
1. Spot targets work when drop targets are down
2. Captive ball always registers
3. Drop targets reset as expected, saucer kickouts work, multiball etc.
The things I can think of that it could be on your game not working:
1. You do have an issue with your Echo Lake board
2. You need a new ROM
3. You have a playfield "issue":
3a. Fish paper behind drop targets missing and maybe shorting things out when they drop somehow? (pic attached)
3b. Missing capacitors on the standup targets (so they are not registering all of the time)
3c. Diode on the switch matrix is shorted that shares the targets (seems unlikely since that would be each diode on the targets)
3a. and 3b. would be the easiest to check. To help, I attached pics of the areas of my playfield.
For #2, if you PM me your address, I can send you a copy of the ROM I have in the Echo Lake board for Cyclopes.

So I didn't end up using the Fluke 90, since it seems to be working. I did take a pic of the MPU-2 that was in it from the bottom. It has some jumpers on it that look to be from the factory (consistent, doesn't look reflowed, same gauge / color -age as the 7th digit jumper). I will document the cut&straps for 3 2732s. The only schematic I have is for the MPU2-rev2 (pic attached, does have the reset circuit though), which most of the ones out there are the Rev1's.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

There are errors on that schematic! if you look at the display section it shows all inverters. that doesn't make sense when you factor in the NAND gate. It is there because that particular inverter isn't an inverter. It is just a buffer. The circle at the output of the gate should be scratched off.

That is just one of the things I found while repairing the Gameplan boards. I used to think the Gameplan boards were some of the most time consuming time sinks to fix. That was until I started working on a Valley Spectra IV which took that title from Gameplan. Still working on one of those.

#656 4 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I wonder why others had issues with the Echo Lake board? Hopefully a new ROM just fixes it and that problem goes away. If it pops up at least there are some of us that have the tools to identify the root cause and come up with a fix that will put it to rest.
That's odd they put caps on the drop targets! Really weird. I've only seen them added to switches that may not register to stretch he pulse seen by the MPU. Drops are either up or down. I'll say it again. Caps on the drops are just odd.

Not the drop targets, but the Standup targets that has the caps added. Actually all of the standup targets should have them (I think ) on this game.

Quoted from Robotworkshop:

There are errors on that schematic! if you look at the display section it shows all inverters. that doesn't make sense when you factor in the NAND gate. It is there because that particular inverter isn't an inverter. It is just a buffer. The circle at the output of the gate should be scratched off.
That is just one of the things I found while repairing the Gameplan boards. I used to think the Gameplan boards were some of the most time consuming time sinks to fix. That was until I started working on a Valley Spectra IV which took that title from Gameplan. Still working on one of those.

Lol, yeah I agree! The important part of having it labeled "17" for a 7417 was helpful when I saw that the first time. After working on GP mpus for so long, these are definitely the most comfortable boards I work on

#657 4 months ago
Quoted from pinballj:

The things I can think of that it could be on your game not working:
1. You do have an issue with your Echo Lake board
2. You need a new ROM
3. You have a playfield "issue":
3a. Fish paper behind drop targets missing and maybe shorting things out when they drop somehow? (pic attached)
3b. Missing capacitors on the standup targets (so they are not registering all of the time)
3c. Diode on the switch matrix is shorted that shares the targets (seems unlikely since that would be each diode on the targets)

3a - The fish paper is still there. I disassembled and rebuilt everything on the playfield. Drop switches register in test.
3b - I always replace the target and other capacitors on games from this era. These are all brand new.

I think it has to be the board. I spoke to the guy who made the Echo Lake boards and he says there have been a lot of problems with them for Cyclopes.
If yours is working properly, I'd be psyched to try swapping in a new ROM from you. In the meantime, I may just end up sending this Andromeda board off to Clive at Coin Op Cauldron and take care of it that way...

#658 4 months ago

OK, big shout out to pinballj for sending me a new ROM to try out on my Echo Lake board.

Here's what I can report as of today:
When I tried the game with the new ROM, I still have the same issues in gameplay. This tells me that either a) there's something very weird that is wrong with the switch matrix, b) Jeremy's Cyclopes doesn't work either, and he just hasn't realized it (this seems exceedingly unlikely, lol), or c) there's something amiss in the switch wiring.

To review: the problem I have been having is that once the drop targets are hit, the spot targets do not score. Weirdly, they do make the sound effect, which I would not have thought possible, but my understanding of electronics is pretty cro-magnon if I'm being honest with you. The result of this is, once you hit all the drop targets there's no more game play, as it's kind of frozen there. This is the opposite of the point of Cyclopes! Weirder still...sometimes the targets seem to work correctly, but mostly they don't. It seems almost random. But, when they do seem to be working, it never lasts through a game. The inconsistency of the problem is incredibly maddening.

I did a bit more sleuthing just now.
Putting the game in switch test mode, all switches individually register. However, if I drop the targets and press the spot targets behind them, the spot targets do not register.
Now, this behavior occurs elsewhere among combinations of switches as well, and I am assuming it is due to the layout of the electrical path through the switch matrix. But, again, cro-magnon understanding of electronics, so I can't tell if this is a valuable clue or me just being easily confused.

I will tell you, though, that this is not my first rodeo with figuring out some switch issue after doing a full playfield restoration; it's not uncommon to find something shorting out and causing trouble, so I am used to looking for stuff like that. IT would be extremely helpful to have a proper switch matrix chart, but unfortunately, this is all you can find from the manual at IPDB:

Screen Shot 2022-01-16 at 3.41.56 PM (resized).png
#659 4 months ago

I made a little video to illustrate what’s going on.
You can hear the exasperation in my voice. I sound like a middle school kid who knows he’s about to fail his algebra exam, lol.

#660 4 months ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I did a bit more sleuthing just now.
Putting the game in switch test mode, all switches individually register. However, if I drop the targets and press the spot targets behind them, the spot targets do not register.
Now, this behavior occurs elsewhere among combinations of switches as well, and I am assuming it is due to the layout of the electrical path through the switch matrix.
...

IT would be extremely helpful to have a proper switch matrix chart, but unfortunately, this is all you can find from the manual at IPDB:[quoted image]

Hmm. So yeah my Cyclopes game works correctly. You probably know, but just for documenting:

1.As each drop target is hit, the arrow insert goes off.
2. Once all drop targets are down in the 4 bank, the inserts flash
3. As you hit each spot target behind the down drop targets, the arrow insert stops flashing
4. Once all spot targets are hit, the 4 bank drop targets reset

I will see if I have a proper switch matrix schematic. I should, but I haven't looked in awhile.

You are correct on the switch test mode in how it works. GamePlan only shows the "lowest number" switch on the display, and doesn't cycle through like other manufacturers.

With the drop targets up, and the balls out, can you confirm that the switches are the correct numbers?

Starting with the bottom left spot "M" target I get:
M = 33
O = 34
N = 35
S = 36

Spot targets on the top right I get:
T = 37
E = 38
R = 39
S = 40

Drops I have:
C = 17
Y = 18
C = 19
L = 20

Top right:
O = 21
P = 22
E = 23
S = 24

Good luck!

#661 4 months ago
Quoted from pinballj:

With the drop targets up, and the balls out, can you confirm that the switches are the correct numbers?

I have verified that all of the switches are coming up correctly according to their number. Can't "verify" diagnostics and accounting (26) but it is obviously working since I can run the tests. The only oddity in the mix is that my machine has no center coin slot. Never did, from what I can tell, and there were no "extra" wires in the coin door taped off with electrical tape or any other such tomfoolery. Coin door was completely overhauled and everything put back correctly; I can't see how the absence of that wiring would account for this (though a switch matrix diagram would sure help at this point.)

It's all pretty baffling. I mean, once you have verified all switches are working properly, what is even left to fix? This is why I thought it was a software issue.

Damn frustrating.

#662 4 months ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I have verified that all of the switches are coming up correctly according to their number. Can't "verify" diagnostics and accounting (26) but it is obviously working since I can run the tests. The only oddity in the mix is that my machine has no center coin slot. Never did, from what I can tell, and there were no "extra" wires in the coin door taped off with electrical tape or any other such tomfoolery. Coin door was completely overhauled and everything put back correctly; I can't see how the absence of that wiring would account for this (though a switch matrix diagram would sure help at this point.)
It's all pretty baffling. I mean, once you have verified all switches are working properly, what is even left to fix? This is why I thought it was a software issue.
Damn frustrating.

I really want to create your issue on my machine to figure this out.

Can you take a pic of your echo lake board, a couple close shots?

Maybe there are some differences in how they are stuffed, using straight up TTL vs LS, causing a timing issue or something.

#663 4 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I need 2 gameplan drop targets in red. If those are unobtanium, it sounds like Sega drops and then modify the drop mech to be 1/4inch lower is the trick? If I go that route, does anyone still have the bullseye target stickers?

i got a cheap Sharpshooters but it is missing one target, what is the best replacement option currently?

#664 4 months ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

i got a cheap Sharpshooters but it is missing one target, what is the best replacement option currently?

Drop target or one of the targets up by the pop bumpers?

#665 4 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Drop target or one of the targets up by the pop bumpers?

sorry yes, one of the drop target broke

#666 4 months ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

sorry yes, one of the drop target broke

That is common. You have a few options. Find a good used one to replace it, Get a Gottlieb drop target and modify if by altering the slot, or convert them all to Data East targets (which requires 4 spacers and slightly longer screws to drop the whole assembly)

You can find notes on it here:

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gameplan_Repair#Drop_Targets

I've got a pair of Sharpshooter machines and just went through this as one had broken drops. Converted the players machine to all Data East. If you are keeping the machine to play it you may want to do the same conversion. It was pretty easy to do. Also easy replace down the road if you break them again. You may not need to as the Data East targets are pretty tough.

#667 4 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

That is common. You have a few options. Find a good used one to replace it, Get a Gottlieb drop target and modify if by altering the slot, or convert them all to Data East targets (which requires 4 spacers and slightly longer screws to drop the whole assembly)
You can find notes on it here:
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gameplan_Repair#Drop_Targets
I've got a pair of Sharpshooter machines and just went through this as one had broken drops. Converted the players machine to all Data East. If you are keeping the machine to play it you may want to do the same conversion. It was pretty easy to do. Also easy replace down the road if you break them again. You may not need to as the Data East targets are pretty tough.

interesting, appreciate the details, i may just try to see if PBR can sell one red GTB drop target for now (like the SurfNSafari one) as a replacement until i go through the whole thing

#668 4 months ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

interesting, appreciate the details, i may just try to see if PBR can sell one red GTB drop target for now (like the SurfNSafari one) as a replacement until i go through the whole thing

I ended up buying the set of Data East targets from PBR plus a couple spares to set inside the game for later. After rebuilding the flippers with correct parts they are really strong but now I can play without worry.

#669 4 months ago
Quoted from pinballj:

I really want to create your issue on my machine to figure this out.
Can you take a pic of your echo lake board, a couple close shots?
Maybe there are some differences in how they are stuffed, using straight up TTL vs LS, causing a timing issue or something.

sethbenjamin , can you check what MPU you have on your Echo Lake board?

I looked at mine, and I have a Z0840004PSC (pic below)

Looking at an archived Echo Lake board that was for sale, it has the Z84C0006PEC:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/102793

Typically this would be fine, but The "C" after the 84* part number means that is a CMOS vs NMOS chip, which does have different timing characteristics (I checked the the datasheet here: http://www.zilog.com/docs/z80/ps0178.pdf, page 31).

I don't have any CMOS Z80s, but have at least 30 of the good ol' Z80, and Z80As lol, so I can't test if this makes a difference. I went ahead and ordered a Z84C0008PEG from Digi Key, that I plan to socket my Echo Lake board and swap in just to see if I can recreate.

Like I said, my Cyclopes works fine...heck with the old MPU-2 board too. I just hate to see another Cyclopes down

PXL_20220120_014335129 (resized).jpg
#670 4 months ago
Quoted from pinballj:

, can you check what MPU you have on your Echo Lake board?

pinballj - I’ll be in the shop later today, definitely want to follow up with you on this!

#671 4 months ago
Quoted from pinballj:

sethbenjamin , can you check what MPU you have on your Echo Lake board?
I looked at mine, and I have a Z0840004PSC (pic below)
Looking at an archived Echo Lake board that was for sale, it has the Z84C0006PEC:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/102793
Typically this would be fine, but The "C" after the 84* part number means that is a CMOS vs NMOS chip, which does have different timing characteristics (I checked the the datasheet here: http://www.zilog.com/docs/z80/ps0178.pdf, page 31).
I don't have any CMOS Z80s, but have at least 30 of the good ol' Z80, and Z80As lol, so I can't test if this makes a difference. I went ahead and ordered a Z84C0008PEG from Digi Key, that I plan to socket my Echo Lake board and swap in just to see if I can recreate.
Like I said, my Cyclopes works fine...heck with the old MPU-2 board too. I just hate to see another Cyclopes down [quoted image]

Since the timing is driven by the main clock I don't think that swapping the processors may not make a difference. I'd be surprised if it does. If the internal core of CMOS instead of NMOS that shouldn't make a difference either except the CMOS should take less power. What can definitely make a difference is if the I/O pins are setup for CMOS vs TTL due to the different logic thresholds and driving characteristics. That ends up catching a lot of people that try to substitute parts and choose different families without factoring that in and things like fanout, etc.

#672 4 months ago
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#673 4 months ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

[quoted image][quoted image]

Dang it, so that is not it either. I will compare my board to your pic. It might just make things either to let you try my board in your game as well, just so we can eliminate if the prob is on board, or elsewhere in the game.

I can take a video of my game w/board too prior to sending, to show how it is working in mine too.

10
#674 4 months ago

Finally making some progress on my custom MPU for Gameplan machines. Focusing on Sharpshooter but whatever I do should work for other Gameplan machines. Coney Island should work as-is except for changing the sound package. Although it has the connector for the cocktail games that isn't wired up since I no longer have a cocktail to run it in. Will work on that when I layout a regular board vs a prototype.

For the moment I'm using the built-in OLED display for status and will use it for scoring until I get the rest of the coding done for the displays and ensure I debug any issues with the current wiring for that.

I'm happy with the onboard OLED and it should help showing diagnostic details. So far I have that displaying the number if zero crossing interrupts per second during startup and then display the current setting of the DIP switches. Not quite sure yet what I'll use it to display during normal game play.

I've rebuilt quite a few original boards which helped me get familiar with the original MPU boards and the machines. I have two Sharpshooter machines side by side. Rebuilt both and have both working. Using Sharpshooter as test fixture for the new board and it will help to be able to run them side by side.

With the exception of the Cocktail display connector and the optional WiFi interface I think the hardware is done. Just need to get busy coding!

GP_MPU (resized).jpgGP_MPU_installed (resized).jpg
#675 4 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Finally making some progress on my custom MPU

The Prototype looks real nice. Willing to bet the final version will work better then the original

#676 4 months ago

2 things:

The sound stopped working on my buddy's Sharpshooter again. I rolled up my sleeves and got ready to bench test the sound board but first decided to try replacing the speaker...and it's working! So it turned out it was an intermittent speaker as far as I can tell.

Here's an interesting note though: the speaker in the game was an 8 ohm. On the recommendation from another poster here on the thread I installed a 4 ohm speaker. It works fine--but there is a very notable lack of bass/bottom end. Plus it makes the treble-y stuff sound extra crackly. We both think it's pretty darn funny and it works perfectly fine, but he might switch to an 8-ohm speaker. Is that an expected difference between using a 4 vs 8 ohm speaker or is something else possibly at play? Come to think of it, the magnet on the 4 ohm speaker was pretty big and heavy compared to the magnet in the 8 ohm speaker I took out (probably 2x the size and weight of the one in the old speaker). Plus the diameter of the replacement speaker is a little smaller than the original. Could that also account for the tinny/paper cup sound of the new 4 ohm speaker we're using?

Other thing: what size is the big rubber ring that goes around the posts behind the drop targets on Sharpshooter? Is that a 6" ring?

Thanks!

#677 4 months ago
Quoted from frunch:

2 things:
The sound stopped working on my buddy's Sharpshooter again. I rolled up my sleeves and got ready to bench test the sound board but first decided to try replacing the speaker...and it's working! So it turned out it was an intermittent speaker as far as I can tell.
Here's an interesting note though: the speaker in the game was an 8 ohm. On the recommendation from another poster here on the thread I installed a 4 ohm speaker. It works fine--but there is a very notable lack of bass/bottom end. Plus it makes the treble-y stuff sound extra crackly. We both think it's pretty darn funny and it works perfectly fine, but he might switch to an 8-ohm speaker. Is that an expected difference between using a 4 vs 8 ohm speaker or is something else possibly at play? Come to think of it, the magnet on the 4 ohm speaker was pretty big and heavy compared to the magnet in the 8 ohm speaker I took out (probably 2x the size and weight of the one in the old speaker). Plus the diameter of the replacement speaker is a little smaller than the original. Could that also account for the tinny/paper cup sound of the new 4 ohm speaker we're using?
Other thing: what size is the big rubber ring that goes around the posts behind the drop targets on Sharpshooter? Is that a 6" ring?
Thanks!

I would disconnect that 4 ohm speaker now. While you could safely substitute a 8 ohm speaker for a 4 ohm speaker it is not safe to substitute a 4 ohm speaker for an 8 ohm. It has half the resistance and depending on how the amp section is designed it could damage the sound board. Best to keep the same ohm rating of the speaker that the sound card was designed to drive.

#678 4 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I would disconnect that 4 ohm speaker now. While you could safely substitute a 8 ohm speaker for a 4 ohm speaker it is not safe to substitute a 4 ohm speaker for an 8 ohm. It has half the resistance and depending on how the amp section is designed it could damage the sound board. Best to keep the same ohm rating of the speaker that the sound card was designed to drive.

Ahhh ok, I was under the impression that the 8 ohm was incorrect. I never could find a value for the speaker in the schematics, and picked up somewhere else that 4 ohms was the correct value. I'll make sure to get an 8 ohm in there asap. Thanks!

#679 4 months ago

you could just put a 4 ohm resistor in series with the speaker and it will be the correct load for the sound board ....no big deal ....or just connect two 4 ohm speakers in series

#680 4 months ago
Quoted from the9gman:

you could just put a 4 ohm resistor in series with the speaker and it will be the correct load for the sound board ....no big deal ....or just connect two 4 ohm speakers in series

That will work too but those are probably more work then just getting the correct speaker for the job. Main point was just not to put in something that will draw more current and a larger load than what it was designed for.

#681 4 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I would disconnect that 4 ohm speaker now. While you could safely substitute a 8 ohm speaker for a 4 ohm speaker it is not safe to substitute a 4 ohm speaker for an 8 ohm. It has half the resistance and depending on how the amp section is designed it could damage the sound board. Best to keep the same ohm rating of the speaker that the sound card was designed to drive.

Ahhh ok, I was under the impression that the 8 ohm was incorrect. I never could find a value for the speaker in the schematics, and picked up somewhere else that 4 ohms was the correct value. I'll make sure to get an 8 ohm in there asap. Thanks!

I appreciate all the info guys!

#682 4 months ago
Quoted from frunch:

Ahhh ok, I was under the impression that the 8 ohm was incorrect. I never could find a value for the speaker in the schematics, and picked up somewhere else that 4 ohms was the correct value. I'll make sure to get an 8 ohm in there asap. Thanks!
I appreciate all the info guys!

I have two Sharpshooters with original speakers. I am going to double check for sure what is in those. I can tell that neither one was replaced.

I've seen some pinball machines come with 4 ohm and others with 8 ohm. Depends on the brand of the game and what style sound card is used. On top of that a lot of games had people swap things out. Sometimes makes it difficult to really know what is right or not.

1 week later
#683 3 months ago

Does anyone have a rubber ring chart/list for Sharpshooter they could share?

Thanks!

#684 3 months ago

Still looking for a sharpshooter cpu new. Ready to buy. Thanks for reading!

2 weeks later
#685 3 months ago

***PSA on getting an MPU-2 or Echo Lake board working in Cyclopes***

sethbenjamin and I have been troubleshooting the Echo Lake MPU board in Cyclopes, sending boards back and forth, videos of what it is doing now etc.

There is a change that was made to the Cyclopes board with 2 resistor values that are different from other MPU-2 Rev2 boards. The 6.8k pull-up for the comparators is 470 ohms, and the 10k pull-down resistor resistor is 1k. This works out for the reference voltage to be ideally 3.06 volts vs 2.97 volts. Being just a little higher of a reference voltage, I think this is safe to do for all games, and should not cause any errors in switch registrations.

Changing out the two resistors on the Echo Lake board, allowed for the drop target banks to work exactly how they behaved with the original MPU-2 installed.

If you do have a Cyclopes and the drop target banks are not working correctly, I would double check your MPU board for these values as well. The other MPU-2 boards I have, do have the values as labeled in the schematic.

For the Echo Lake board change the following:
1. Resistor circled in Blue (immediately below U23, top of the 100k resistor row) from 6.8k to 470 ohms
2. Resistor circled in Green (immediately below U22) from 10k to 1k ohms

PXL_20220217_185124138~2 (resized).jpgPXL_20220217_185301392~2 (resized).jpg
#686 3 months ago

Wondering what other Game Plan pin owners think the odds are of a new MPU-2 board being offered this year? I really am not sure it will happen.

#687 3 months ago
Quoted from Tokkentakker:

Wondering what other Game Plan pin owners think the odds are of a new MPU-2 board being offered this year? I really am not sure it will happen.

I am going to start a new thread once I get some more testing done, but I have a multi MPU design now and will open source the files when complete for people to make their own if they like. I am not going to build and sell them myself, but do want to contribute back to the community. I have a working proto board now in my Cyclopes. I am going to test it in Andromeda, SharpShooter, and Global Warfare before making the repo public. It should be this weekend.

Quick video of it working here:

More info on the progress at: http://www.epinball.com

-Jeremy

#688 3 months ago

Need one when ready. I got money.

#689 3 months ago
Quoted from pinballj:

I am going to start a new thread once I get some more testing done, but I have a multi MPU design now and will open source the files when complete for people to make their own if they like. I am not going to build and sell them myself, but do want to contribute back to the community. I have a working proto board now in my Cyclopes. I am going to test it in Andromeda, SharpShooter, and Global Warfare before making the repo public. It should be this weekend.
Quick video of it working here:
More info on the progress at: http://www.epinball.com
-Jeremy

Thank you!!! I'm pretty confident that I could populate a board myself if someone ends up getting a batch of boards printed.

#690 3 months ago
Quoted from Tokkentakker:

Thank you!!! I'm pretty confident that I could populate a board myself if someone ends up getting a batch of boards printed.

Yeah it is just a lot of soldering, but not too bad

Other than the parts, you will obv need to burn the eprom as well. The image will be uploaded/shared too.

#691 3 months ago

No clue what forum category choose for open source hardware, but here is the link to the forum for the multi MPU board:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/build-your-own-gameplan-multi-mpu-board

1 week later
#692 83 days ago

I'm working on a friends Coney Island got it to boot and play but the connectors between the head and the playfield (captian crunch connectors) are shot all the pins are corroded ....does anyone have a good supplier for the pins male and female and the .083 extractor tool necessary to do the job to repin these connectors

#693 83 days ago
Quoted from the9gman:

I'm working on a friends Coney Island got it to boot and play but the connectors between the head and the playfield (captian crunch connectors) are shot all the pins are corroded ....does anyone have a good supplier for the pins male and female and the .083 extractor tool necessary to do the job to repin these connectors

GamePlan uses AMP Mate-N-Lok connectors for the connection between the head and the cabinet.

I have ordered replacement pins from Digi-Key myself.

Example for the male.pin:
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-amp-connectors/60620-1/15674

The 12 pos housing is 1-480278-0.
Mouser should carry as well.

Hope this helps.

#694 83 days ago
Quoted from pinballj:

Hope this helps

Thanks for the info appreciate it

1 week later
#695 73 days ago
Quoted from pinballj:

I am not going to build and sell them myself

paging barakandl - this might be a worthy addition to your product inventory.

1 month later
#696 34 days ago

If all goes well I should have some full GamePlan Multi MPU kits available later next week and a couple assembled MPU boards.

1 week later
#697 24 days ago

If anyone needs a new Gameplan MPU and enjoys soldering I have two full complete kits left. Instructions are included. Board is the fantastic design that Jeremy did.

#698 24 days ago

Hi, I would like one. How do I go about getting one and paying you? I have a sharpshooteer II and would love to get it going again.

#699 24 days ago
Quoted from Woolwich01:

Hi, I would like one. How do I go about getting one and paying you? I have a sharpshooteer II and would love to get it going again.

I just sent a PM. Someone just got an assembled board for their Sharpshooter II and it came to life after sitting for over a decade. I have one running in my Sharpshooter.

#700 19 days ago

Does anyone happen to have a spare lockdown bar that will fit a Sharpshooter II?

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