(Topic ID: 85168)

Game over light

By nick-the-greek

8 years ago


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  • 25 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by Rat_Tomago
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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CT_rear.jpg

#1 8 years ago

When did Gottlieb start putting a last ball in play and game over light on the wedge heads. It must be between 62 and 66 as my Cover Girl has neither and my two Cross town has both, Hurdy Gurdy has just a game over light.

#2 8 years ago

I'd guess '66 for the "Last Ball in Play" (Cross Town may actually have been first with that, not sure).

Some woodrails have the Game Over screened in the glass, the backbox board drilled for the bulb socket, but no socket installed. I think they started populating it in the late woodrails, but can't think which games have it offhand. Would be late period though, like '57-'60.

#3 8 years ago

Not too many games have "last ball in play" screened into the backglass. I think "Ice Revue" does, but aside from that one and "Cross Town", I can't think of any others.

#4 8 years ago

Royal Guard is another one. Kind of neat how it is incorporated in the ladies hat.

#5 8 years ago

Sing Along does.

#6 8 years ago

Two I forgot about, but I shouldn't because Vic Camp has both games in his collection. I'm slipping!

#7 8 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

Royal Guard is another one. Kind of neat how it is incorporated in the ladies hat.

i want to try to put a flasher in there when (if?) mine is functional again... might be a bit distracting though...

#8 8 years ago

If the Last Ball in Play socket is wired with a 35ohm sand resistor, you actually *have* to put a flasher in there. (Cross Town is this way.) A 44 (or 47) will burn up too quickly otherwise.

#9 8 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

If the Last Ball in Play socket is wired with a 35ohm sand resistor, you actually *have* to put a flasher in there. (Cross Town is this way.) A 44 (or 47) will burn up too quickly otherwise.

i'll have to look, i don't know... now that you bring that up though, that WAS the bulb that i was fixing to change on the royal guard when i went down the rabbit hole (theres a 47 in it now)... and that wasn't the first time it had blown...

#10 8 years ago

Looks like this (taken from Cross Town IPDB pic):

CT_rear.jpg

#11 8 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Looks like this (taken from Cross Town IPDB pic):

CT_rear.jpg 19 KB

cool... nope not there, i didn't remember one from when i had it apart, and just went and looked...

ok, gotta ask... why did they do that? has to be a reason...

#12 8 years ago

Bah, you would ask!

So here's a short version. You'll see on the schematic that these bulbs are actually on the 25V side of the house, rather than the 6V:

LastBall.jpg

A #455 bulb is a 6.5V, 0.5A bulb, so putting a 6.5V bulb in a 25V circuit will burn it out rather quickly. Some of the 25V needs to be consumed to leave 6.5V for the bulb. The amount needed is the difference: 25V-6.5V = 18.5V.

So a resistor is needed in series with the bulb to take that 18.5V. Since the bulb draws 0.5A, so will the resistor. Using Ohm's Law (V=IR) and solving for R yields V/I = R, so 18.5V/0.5A = 37 Ohms.

Now, 37 Ohms is pretty darn close to the 35 Ohms, but not exact. I'll wave my arms a bit here and say that there's another 2 Ohms of resistance in the circuit already (which can be measured), such that 35 Ohms is sufficient.

But that gives the resistance value, and a resistor has both a resistance and a power rating. With the 0.5A and the 18.5V, power in Watts is just 'volt-amps', or 18.5V*0.5A, or 9.25 W, call it 10 Watts or better.

So, a #455 bulb in series with a 35 Ohm, 10 Watt resistor.

(And no, I don't have this memorized; I have to re-derive each time, although this should do for awhile now...)

#13 8 years ago

My King of Diamonds (1967) has a "Last Ball in Play" on the backglass and it flashes on the 5th ball.

#14 8 years ago

@df... of course i'm gonna ask... you should know me well enough by now that i'm gonna want to know why... thanks for applying ohm's law for me so i didn't have to derive it myself...

makes sense now, i didn't realize that some of them lived on the 25v leg like that... the rg has that light on the 6v lightbox leg...

i now know what to look for in the future... thanks as always...

#15 8 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

Using Ohm's Law (V=IR) and solving for R yields V/I = R, so 18.5V/0.5A = 37 Ohms.
Now, 37 Ohms is pretty darn close to the 35 Ohms, but not exact.

After reading about this yesterday it reminded me to replace the bulb in the "Last Ball In Play" light in the head of my Ice Revue as it had not been lighting and is on the 25V circuit.

It glowed so brightly that I was afraid it was going to take the art off the backside of the backglass so I pulled the bulb. I'm sure the bulb would not have lasted very long at that rate. I'll take a resistance reading on the resistor tonight and bet I will find less than 35ohms of resistance.

Mike O.

#16 8 years ago

I like to use an led in my Ice Revue "Last Ball in Play Light", incandescents can just get way to hot. It looks almost the same, just a little brighter.

#17 8 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

After reading about this yesterday it reminded me to replace the bulb in the "Last Ball In Play" light in the head of my Ice Revue as it had not been lighting and is on the 25V circuit.
It glowed so brightly that I was afraid it was going to take the art off the backside of the backglass so I pulled the bulb. I'm sure the bulb would not have lasted very long at that rate. I'll take a resistance reading on the resistor tonight and bet I will find less than 35ohms of resistance.
Mike O.

The Ice Review schematic shows it as being a 35 Ohm, 10 Watt resistor, so should be a #455 flasher bulb used.

I haven't found a good source for the original 'sand' type of resistors, so have to use ceramic ones when they need to be replaced.

Sometimes you'll find sockets in series with a 75 Ohm resistor instead. Those need #44 bulbs (which are 6.3V, .250 Amp)

#18 8 years ago
Quoted from hawkeye11:

I like to use an led in my Ice Revue "Last Ball in Play Light", incandescents can just get way to hot. It looks almost the same, just a little brighter.

If the LED is drawing a different amperage and voltage, probably should also change the resistor to balance it back out.

#19 8 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

If the Last Ball in Play socket is wired with a 35ohm sand resistor, you actually *have* to put a flasher in there. (Cross Town is this way.) A 44 (or 47) will burn up too quickly otherwise.

That's why my bulbs keep blowing!

So, guess all game over bulbs needs to be 455 blinking bayonet?

#20 8 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

That's why my bulbs keep blowing!
So, guess all game over bulbs needs to be 455 blinking bayonet?

No, not necessarily. It depends on whether the socket is wired into the 25V part of the circuit or not, and even then, what value of resistor is wired in series with it. And this really was only used on the Last Ball in Play and some playfield lights (like Special When Lit type lights).

I can't think of a Game Over light that was this way at all. But they often are set up for a flasher bulb, due to the way the socket is set flush with the backbox board (so the large, round bulb doesn't prevent the bulb base from going in the socket).

#21 8 years ago

Sing Along has those sand resistors across the four kick out hole lights, I guess Melody and Kings & Queens have, as well. For the game over light, the resistor value could be increased and a normal 44 / 47 fitted. It certainly needs a higher value if the game is high tapped, even with a 455.

#22 8 years ago
Quoted from nick-the-greek:

Sing Along has those sand resistors across the four kick out hole lights, I guess Melody and Kings & Queens have, as well. For the game over light, the resistor value could be increased and a normal 44 / 47 fitted. It certainly needs a higher value if the game is high tapped, even with a 455.

Yes, those kickout hole lights have the resistors, but they are 75 Ohm, so need the #44 bulb specifically (a #47 will burn out). To use a #47, a higher resistor value is needed.

The resistors weren't used with the Game Over light (that I know of).

#23 8 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

That's why my bulbs keep blowing!
So, guess all game over bulbs needs to be 455 blinking bayonet?

Same here. The hotly glowing 44 i put in my Ice Revue for the last ball in play lamp needed to be a 455 flasher. Much better now.

Thanks, guys. I learned something new today.

Mike O.

#24 8 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

If the LED is drawing a different amperage and voltage, probably should also change the resistor to balance it back out.

I did change the resistor to a value I read about somewhere. Can't remember where I read it, or what value it is. But it's worked great.

#25 8 years ago

On the Card Whiz I owned I kept blowing 47 bulbs behind the drop targets. The minute I changed them to 44s the problem stopped.

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