Game Of Thrones (Pro)
Stern, 2015Quoted from smokedog:I've heard it's impossible to have the other playfields flippers be disabled when the upper playfield is not in play
that would be a deal breaker on the prem/le
that irratated me to no end on WWE so it is gone. Also a reason I wont buy WOZ.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:We've seen how quickly even the most vociferous mob can change directions on Pinside...I mean, look at the whole MMR color DMD thing.
If there's literally ANY excuse - some cool feature, some neato dots, or (gasp) even an interesting shot or two - Game of Thrones will be a quick favorite around here despite the atrocious artwork.
You might be right 
but right know this reminds me of a old school witch hunt
My 1980 Gottlieb Time Line disables the flippers in both the lower and upper PFs....when not 'in use'
I'm pretty sure Stern can figure out how to handle that
Quoted from TigerLaw:How could it be impossible to program that? Family Guy did it with the Stewi mini playfield with no problem at all. Sometimes the buttons would work for the main flippers, sometimes the top, and sometimes all four.
I just don't believe they can't do it. I think they just don't want to take the time to do it.
Quoted from frolic:The programmer of tspp and woz, Keith, specifically won't do it but he is not working on Got.
Keith's whole thing is you cant trust ball tracking that well to know when they should fire and not because "The ball is wild!" (tm - somebody). With Stewie pinball the ball up there was captive, so that's different.
Quoted from Whysnow:that would be a deal breaker on the prem/le
that irratated me to no end on WWE so it is gone. Also a reason I wont buy WOZ.
I thought it would be dumb, like on Tspp but I tolerate it. But with these being full size flippers that's another thing.
But to say it's not possible is just rediculous, they should have said they just done give a shit.
Quoted from epthegeek:Keith's whole thing is you cant trust ball tracking that well to know when they should fire and not because "The ball is wild!" (tm - somebody). With Stewie pinball the ball up there was captive, so that's different.
I can see this, but if the upper PF needs a VUK to get up there, can't that turn the flipper on?
What's done is done. But I don't like to hear something is impossible when clearly it's very possible to disable the upper flippers.
Quoted from rai:I can see this, but if the upper PF needs a VUK to get up there, can't that turn the flipper on?
What's done is done. But I don't like to hear something is impossible when clearly it's very possible to disable the upper flippers.
I suspect Smokedog was being sarcastic when he made that statement due to some resentment at Keith's refusal to turn off upper playfield flippers when not in use in some of his games.
Quoted from Jvspin:I suspect Smokedog was being sarcastic when he made that statement due to some resentment at Keith's refusal to turn off upper playfield flippers when not in use in some of his games.
I can understand that argument. You could implement tracking based on a VUK or rollover switches. But then there is the unlikely scenario where you get an air ball that flies up there somehow. In that case, the player would be rather upset if the flippers did not work.
Quoted from Aurich:I'm just salty because now I have to go remove all the radial gradients from my design.
I know some people are going to think I have an agenda here, but I was actually hoping this game would be awesome. I don't work for Heighway, pinball isn't my "job", I'm a fan first and foremost. I love the show, and if the game looked bad ass I'd be stoked for Stern.
I'm really sympathetic to license stuff. I've had my own battles on Alien to try and figure out how to work within the constraints I'm given. You gotta pick your fights, spend your capital wisely. And you have to be creative. If they give you a box of tools you figure out how to use those tools. Might not be the ones you wanted, but you have to stop wishing for a hammer and figure out what to do with a saw.
But it's really obvious there was a lot of freedom here. The big complaints have nothing to do with actual HBO assets. This isn't the "dwarf style guide" conversation from the initial Hobbit design. Whatever happened behind the scenes, whatever frustrations and battles there were, I just can't believe any of it ended with "well, we have to use a radial gradient here, sucks, but they're gonna yank the license if we don't".
I know I'm gonna sound like a dick here, but it's just lazy design. There's no getting around it. Why are the stock art coins repeated? Why are the inserts surrounded by cheesy bevels, that are too big so they overlap, with no rhyme or reason to which one is on top? Then you have icicles off one insert, that's "flat" against the playfield, but the icicles have a big ol' drop Shadow, like they're floating on a plane above the insert they're attached to? This is 101 shit here. It's almost beyond lazy to just pure "don't care". There's no pride in that work.
And to surround all of that with a huge background that's a giant radial gradient, literally the most useless of all the possible gradient shapes ... what in the heck is that about? It's just boggling my mind. At best you can use that gradient to simulate turned metal. People use it to make corny Apple icons like this:
Apple-01.png
Problem is, that gradient didn't even have the attention to detail that the above icon does. And if it did, what the hell is that supposed to be? No one has ever had a shield with a face made from turned metal. It makes no sense at all. That's not what any shield, ever, has looked like. Someone said "shit, what do I do with this empty space now that I've filled it with house shields? Uh, I guess I'll make it metal. Um, here, gradient, done, boom, let's go get some coffee."
I think we deserve more than that for our money. These toys are damn expensive.
Look, I'm not going to promise you that you'll like how Alien's art looks. I can't. You might not like it, you might think I didn't do it right. Hopefully you love it. I can't control that.
But I can promise you this: I've obsessed over it. I've watched the films frame by frame. Want to know how many scenes in Aliens have some interesting typography? Probably in the 70s, because I took 83 captures from it recently of all the UI and fonts and interfaces, just to keep them in mind as I'm working. I'm a huge fan of the movies, there's a limited edition Mondo print of ALIEN hanging behind me at my desk. I have a huge xenomorph bust. Toys, books, and I'm a long time fan of HR Giger.
Maybe I blow it. I'm not perfect. But it won't be because I didn't try. And GOT feels to me like someone didn't try or didn't care. And I wish they had, because I think this could have been something else.
Imagine for a moment that you did things differently than Stern. And you hired the same illustrator to do the playfield art. Gave him the CAD layout, roughed in ideas and explained the inserts, and let him paint that.
Keep the map idea, but have him paint a landscape on it in the style of the opening credits. Not random rusty gears from a straight up above perspective with drops shadows. A proper isometric landscape, with gears and building rising from the land, mountain ranges, forests, all rendered in his almost photorealistic style. Which when applied to fantastic elements, will bring them to life. When you apply that to people that look like PR shots it instead just looks like processed photography. Waste of time. Have him paint stuff his style makes cool. No stiff PR poses.
Rising from the ground between the flippers are the poles of the House Banners. Each one hanging in the breeze, slightly furled and moving around so that each one has a little character.
Towers and castles dot the map, and each house is represented. People would want one as wall art. Why not just go for it? Supposedly Steve has had 2 years to work on this, I bet the layout has been final for long enough to have that done.
For the LE, swap the backglass and side art!
Backglass: Dragon breathing flames, engulfing the frame in fire, and GAME OF THRONES in the flames, in mid-heat, like it is in the intro. Flames almost licking from inside of it.
On the sides of the cabinet stretches the unsullied army, and standing tall above them is the Queen of Dragons, with her dragons flying about her in the sky stretching the sides of the cabinet, and full of clouds and light. Smaller and to her sides are Drogo and her handmaiden, representing the transition points in her rise to power.
I'd be figuring out how to fit it in my game room.
amazing post. hope nobody missed it.
Quoted from pezpunk:amazing post. hope nobody missed it.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/game-of-thrones-images-are-up/page/7#post-2669586
More important than the quality of the artwork is the fact that the game doesn't properly represent the TV series or its source material. It's possible to deal with poor art (we do it on many of Ritchie's games already), but out the door this game looks like a one-off conversion of some other title. If were Stern I'd be addressing the thematic issues before the art... but Stern prefers to work in the dark w/o custom feedback. Bitch about JJP all you want, but they listened and responded with vastly improved TH artwork, and the game is actually about The Hobbit. That's the difference between a cookie cutter manufacturer and a custom game shop.
Quoted from pezpunk:amazing post. hope nobody missed it.
Thanks. I didn't mean to make it so damn long, so if anyone didn't slog through it I don't blame you!
Anyways, it's just pinball. I'm passionate about the design side of things, it's part of why I love the hobby. I'm a player too, I want both. And that doesn't seem unreasonable, because I own lots of games that have both.
So I guess I just had to vent. 
Also, it just occurred to me, the PremLE has color changing inserts. So those renders are sort of "cheating" in that they have all the inserts lit up at once to look colored. In real life they're going to be all white, or what's the point of color changing LEDs? So keep in mind it's going to look different than that when you actually see it.
Definitely not a fan of this computer render announcement thing. Seems disingenuous.
Quoted from Baiter:More important than the quality of the artwork is the fact that the game doesn't properly represent the TV series or its source material.
Let's look at Steve's other TV show theme - 24. Terrible art package. However, no one was really clamoring to own a 24 themed pin anyway....people were passionately awaiting this one and were ready to open their wallets. That's why this stings so much.
You pretty much summed up exactly how I feel about it Aurich. Being a graphic designer is tough, especially when you work for a company with several people telling you what you need to do and it needs to be done yesterday. That said, I agree that there were just some awful choices made in regards to design elements. Graphic Design 101 indeed.
At the same time, I kind of pity the person that did the layout as they probably were proud of it when it was done.
Quoted from PinballBeerGuy:I can understand that argument. You could implement tracking based on a VUK or rollover switches. But then there is the unlikely scenario where you get an air ball that flies up there somehow. In that case, the player would be rather upset if the flippers did not work.
meh. An air ball was not put up there on purpose so I have no issue with it not bing playable.
This really is amore about wear and tear
Quoted from Aurich:Thanks. I didn't mean to make it so damn long, so if anyone didn't slog through it I don't blame you!
Anyways, it's just pinball. I'm passionate about the design side of things, it's part of why I love the hobby. I'm a player too, I want both. And that doesn't seem unreasonable, because I own lots of games that have both.
So I guess I just had to vent.
Your passion for the hobby, and the pride/level of effort that you put into your artwork in general, really came through in that post. After the giant let down that was the GoT reveal, your comments made me feel relieved that Heighway has brought you on board to tackle the artwork package on Alien. As we've clearly seen, an amazing theme, and a ton of content to pull from--does not an amazing art package make. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you've done with it.
Quoted from Aurich:Thanks. I didn't mean to make it so damn long, so if anyone didn't slog through it I don't blame you!
Anyways, it's just pinball. I'm passionate about the design side of things, it's part of why I love the hobby. I'm a player too, I want both. And that doesn't seem unreasonable, because I own lots of games that have both.
So I guess I just had to vent.
It shows in your Star Trek art package. Love it. I literally said "Wow" with it all added to my game. It should be factory in all honesty. The game itself is fantastic, the original "art" (was more of a fast photoshop job) on the translite was something akin to the art with GoT on the cab and such. Can see the progression that it's as if the art itself is going by the wayside with Stern when it should be upheld as it also needs to be visually stunning. Can't wait to see Aliens!!!
Quoted from Whysnow:meh. An air ball was not put up there on purpose so I have no issue with it not bing playable.
This really is amore about wear and tear
Personally, I don't mind having all the flippers active. I wouldn't like having the flipper be dead due to a non working switch or sensor. This could be a real problem on location and make troubleshooting more difficult.
I'm also surprised at how newbies fail to notice there are flippers on the upper playfields, even when they're constantly flipping when the lower flippers are in use. How much worse would this be if the upper flippers only activated when the ball was on the playfield?
Quoted from pinmanguy:Will they get the same redneck from TWD to do GoT? That'd be hilarious
"Well Walker Multiball" shares 66% of it's content with the phrase "White Walker Multiball"... 
Quoted from Rarehero:Let's look at Steve's other TV show theme - 24. Terrible art package. However, no one was really clamoring to own a 24 themed pin anyway....people were passionately awaiting this one and were ready to open their wallets. That's why this stings so much.
Fortunately, other other TV theme - Rollergames- hit it out of the park!!!!
But seriously. I love everything about that game.
Quoted from Jvspin:Personally, I don't mind having all the flippers active. I wouldn't like having the flipper be dead due to a non working switch or sensor. This could be a real problem on location and make troubleshooting more difficult.
It's just stern cutting 5 bucks for game out of the BOM without a sensor.
There's no excuse really - with so many games going into home use, there could easily be a setting to disable upper flippers when game isn't in play. It would ship with flippers always on for ops.
That's a shit ton of wear you could save on upper flipper parts by offering this option in home use. And if you have trouble with the sensors or anything else, you could just turn it off/on.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:There's no excuse really - with so many games going into home use, there could easily be a setting to disable upper flippers when game isn't in play. It would ship with flippers always on for ops.
That's a shit ton of wear you could save on upper flipper parts by offering this option in home use. And if you have trouble with the sensors or anything else, you could just turn it off/on.
Good point! Options are always nice.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It would ship with flippers always on for ops.
Please no. I'd rather have the flippers off when ball is not in the upper play field.
Why would more wear be good for OPs? So we can make less money and spend more time removing mini play fields, at 11 PM, in a bar and in the dark to replace a coil stop?
I am hoping the GI is not just white.
awful. two tv shows I've never seen, "pro" wrestling and a bunch of has-been tranvestites who cant play instruments for pinball titles. I want to like stern, I need to like stern... I just cant do it
Quoted from Chemixtry:Capture.PNG
Is it me or does it look like there is a waste of space in the PRO upper left corner? Just a large plastic? Seems to cut down on some of the real estate.
Yeah looks like there should be an upper playfield or something in that area...
Quoted from Collin:I find it a bit hilarious that I've gotten tons of thumbs down for simply posting the pictures.
You guys DO realize I didn't design any aspect of the game, right?
lol. "hey guys here's some pics of the latest pinball machine!!!!!!!!" "FFFFFFFF UUUUUU....."
thats brutal man.
Quoted from Collin:I find it a bit hilarious that I've gotten tons of thumbs down for simply posting the pictures.
You guys DO realize I didn't design any aspect of the game, right?
You were the messenger. You will be shot.
Quoted from Collin:I find it a bit hilarious that I've gotten tons of thumbs down for simply posting the pictures.
You guys DO realize I didn't design any aspect of the game, right?
People just shooting the messenger - nothing personal. 
I'll go back and give you a thumbs up!
Quoted from Jvspin:I wouldn't like having the flipper be dead due to a non working switch or sensor
this is excesssivley rare. Aside from that, when a switch goes out you fix it easily. We have 15 games on route for the past 18 months and only 3 flakey switches in all during that time. Flakey switches in all cases were heavily used ones in VUK areas or main shooter lane switched. Standard rollovers rarely go bad and are simple to fix if they do.
I will take the possibility of that over needless coil pulses and flipper wear on 2 extra flippers.
Aside form that the extra noise of a second set of flippers and the added coil dust is beyond frustrating form a route perspective.
Quoted from Collin:I find it a bit hilarious that I've gotten tons of thumbs down for simply posting the pictures.
You guys DO realize I didn't design any aspect of the game, right?
I think you originally just said on Facebook and didn't post them right? That might have been the thumbs down cause.
Quoted from Whysnow:this is excesssivley rare. Aside from that, when a switch goes out you fix it easily. We have 15 games on route for the past 18 months and only 3 flakey switches in all during that time. Flakey switches in all cases were heavily used ones in VUK areas or main shooter lane switched. Standard rollovers rarely go bad and are simple to fix if they do.
I will take the possibility of that over needless coil pulses and flipper wear on 2 extra flippers.
Aside form that the extra noise of a second set of flippers and the added coil dust is beyond frustrating form a route perspective.
Curious -- what games with an isolated upper PF have gotten this right.
-mof
Quoted from Chemixtry:Capture.PNG
Is it me or does it look like there is a waste of space in the PRO upper left corner? Just a large plastic? Seems to cut down on some of the real estate.
You could fit a whole 'nother playfield up there!
Quoted from Chemixtry:Capture.PNG
Is it me or does it look like there is a waste of space in the PRO upper left corner? Just a large plastic? Seems to cut down on some of the real estate.
i'd probably move the dragon back in that area and add a spotlight.
how about no spotlight on the slingshots on the le? but it's on the pro.
Quoted from mof:Curious -- what games with an isolated upper PF have gotten this right.
-mof
I can only think of shadow and TZ but neither use flippers.
Quoted from Aurich:Also, it just occurred to me, the PremLE has color changing inserts. So those renders are sort of "cheating" in that they have all the inserts lit up at once to look colored. In real life they're going to be all white, or what's the point of color changing LEDs? So keep in mind it's going to look different than that when you actually see it.
Definitely not a fan of this computer render announcement thing. Seems disingenuous.
I was thinking the insert shield would change to the color of one of the house shield colors to maybe indicate which family is controlling that lane/shot.
Quoted from mof:Curious -- what games with an isolated upper PF have gotten this right.
-mof
I don't know.
I do know that WWE was definately planned to not have slammers powered unless the ball was in the ring (even has plastic and light on the lower ropes indicating this), but they appear to have fully abandoned this.
I do know that it is VERY easy to program this into the code. All you need is a switch from every entrance and exit of an upper pf. Then the game knows the state of the ball in play. Ball goes over entrance = power upper flippers. Ball goes over exit = cut power to upper flippers. Multiball = all flippers at power.
Yikes...
I'm not the only one that saw Black Knight.
AC/DC was the first Stern pin in a long time to change my opinion on the cheap, crappy machines they were making. Looks like the Stern "classic" design theory is back with a vengeance.
Why even bother making a premium/pro version with something missing so much in terms of quality and "stuff". Great theme killed by cheap production guidelines. This should be a 4.5K machine tops.
Quoted from Collin:I find it a bit hilarious that I've gotten tons of thumbs down for simply posting the pictures.
You guys DO realize I didn't design any aspect of the game, right?
Does it matter anymore? Pinside Karma is gone so...who cares about thumbs ups or downs? I wouldn't care either. 
I don't care about the thumbs down, I just find it hilarious how quick we are with the hate, not just for the game but also the messenger
Quoted from Aurich:I think you originally just said on Facebook and didn't post them right? That might have been the thumbs down cause.
Ironically, there were NO thumbs down til after I posted pictures (which took a good twenty minutes because my phone is rubbish)
Quoted from Chemixtry:Capture.PNG
Is it me or does it look like there is a waste of space in the PRO upper left corner? Just a large plastic? Seems to cut down on some of the real estate.
Great opportunity for modding. Just search "Game of Thrones bust" on Amazon. Or maybe the iron throne?
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