I seem to recall there was an uproar over the Metallica premium translite upon release and it changed.

TWD only showed LE and Pro at launch. I know because I was upset with the price on the LE and the features missing on the pro. So I waited it out and then boom! Premium announced with art I liked better and all the features.....except the sound call outs, but I fixed that for the most part

They didn't even announce TWD Premium at first. Quite the uproar once they did.

The uproar was on the Roadcase Premium translite and Stern never changed it. If they would have I think there would have been a lot more sales of that version.

Can't wait ! I bet Kelly would buy one

Okay. Nm then.

I'm just salty because now I have to go remove all the radial gradients from my design.

I know some people are going to think I have an agenda here, but I was actually hoping this game would be awesome. I don't work for Heighway, pinball isn't my "job", I'm a fan first and foremost. I love the show, and if the game looked bad ass I'd be stoked for Stern.

I'm really sympathetic to license stuff. I've had my own battles on Alien to try and figure out how to work within the constraints I'm given. You gotta pick your fights, spend your capital wisely. And you have to be creative. If they give you a box of tools you figure out how to use those tools. Might not be the ones you wanted, but you have to stop wishing for a hammer and figure out what to do with a saw.

But it's really obvious there was a lot of freedom here. The big complaints have nothing to do with actual HBO assets. This isn't the "dwarf style guide" conversation from the initial Hobbit design. Whatever happened behind the scenes, whatever frustrations and battles there were, I just can't believe any of it ended with "well, we have to use a radial gradient here, sucks, but they're gonna yank the license if we don't".

I know I'm gonna sound like a dick here, but it's just lazy design. There's no getting around it. Why are the stock art coins repeated? Why are the inserts surrounded by cheesy bevels, that are too big so they overlap, with no rhyme or reason to which one is on top? Then you have icicles off one insert, that's "flat" against the playfield, but the icicles have a big ol' drop shadow, like they're floating on a plane above the insert they're attached to? This is 101 shit here. It's almost beyond lazy to just pure "don't care". There's no pride in that work.

And to surround all of that with a huge background that's a giant radial gradient, literally the most useless of all the possible gradient shapes ... what in the heck is that about? It's just boggling my mind. At best you can use that gradient to simulate turned metal. People use it to make corny Apple icons like this:

Apple-01.png

Problem is, that gradient didn't even have the attention to detail that the above icon does. And if it did, what the hell is that supposed to be? No one has ever had a shield with a face made from turned metal. It makes no sense at all. That's not what any shield, ever, has looked like. Someone said "shit, what do I do with this empty space now that I've filled it with house shields? Uh, I guess I'll make it metal. Um, here, gradient, done, boom, let's go get some coffee."

I think we deserve more than that for our money. These toys are damn expensive.

Look, I'm not going to promise you that you'll like how Alien's art looks. I can't. You might not like it, you might think I didn't do it right. Hopefully you love it. I can't control that.

But I can promise you this: I've obsessed over it. I've watched the films frame by frame. Want to know how many scenes in Aliens have some interesting typography? Probably in the 70s, because I took 83 captures from it recently of all the UI and fonts and interfaces, just to keep them in mind as I'm working. I'm a huge fan of the movies, there's a limited edition Mondo print of ALIEN hanging behind me at my desk. I have a huge xenomorph bust. Toys, books, and I'm a long time fan of HR Giger.

Maybe I blow it. I'm not perfect. But it won't be because I didn't try. And GOT feels to me like someone didn't try or didn't care. And I wish they had, because I think this could have been something else.

Imagine for a moment that you did things differently than Stern. And you hired the same illustrator to do the playfield art. Gave him the CAD layout, roughed in ideas and explained the inserts, and let him paint that.

Keep the map idea, but have him paint a landscape on it in the style of the opening credits. Not random rusty gears from a straight up above perspective with drops shadows. A proper isometric landscape, with gears and building rising from the land, mountain ranges, forests, all rendered in his almost photorealistic style. Which when applied to fantastic elements, will bring them to life. When you apply that to people that look like PR shots it instead just looks like processed photography. Waste of time. Have him paint stuff his style makes cool. No stiff PR poses.

Rising from the ground between the flippers are the poles of the House Banners. Each one hanging in the breeze, slightly furled and moving around so that each one has a little character.

Towers and castles dot the map, and each house is represented. People would want one as wall art. Why not just go for it? Supposedly Steve has had 2 years to work on this, I bet the layout has been final for long enough to have that done.

For the LE, swap the backglass and side art!

Backglass: Dragon breathing flames, engulfing the frame in fire, and GAME OF THRONES in the flames, in mid-heat, like it is in the intro. Flames almost licking from inside of it.

On the sides of the cabinet stretches the unsullied army, and standing tall above them is the Queen of Dragons, with her dragons flying about her in the sky stretching the sides of the cabinet, and full of clouds and light. Smaller and to her sides are Drogo and her handmaiden, representing the transition points in her rise to power.

I'd be figuring out how to fit it in my game room.

I agree the artwork looks like shit, though shouldn't we wait to see the actual photos and not these weird computer renders?

In particular the playfield doesn't look quite right....

Ok, I guess I was confused. I thought the Premium used to be a photo of the 4 band members and then turned into the Monsters edition.

I honestly think it is just incompetence on the PF implementation. He didn't see all the mistakes that are obvious to a skilled designer like you, and it appears amateur and ugly to everyone else (like me). What I don't get is that someone at Stern didn't push back on the PF design. At least JJP had the ability to go back and redo the PF for the hobbit. The first try was far from what they have now, but even JJP's first cut wasn't this bad.

I'm starting to warm up to the LE version since it's hand drawn. Hoping for an improvement in the Premium. This is my dream theme, but I think based on my reaction.. I'm going to wait until the title matures like what happened with the TWD.

I agree with a lot of what Aurich says here, and I'm glad to hear his two cents. His ST version was a remarkable improvement to my premium. Would be interested to see what he could do here once it all plays out.

Aurich can't save this one (not directly anyway). He is out of the Stern art mod biz...

His input added value to the JJP PF redesign (and I thank him for it), but this one may be too far down the road.

Is there any way you could contact Greg Freres and ask him these questions? You have some pull. Inquiring minds and all that.

The show logo with sunlight blasting behind it--wouldn't that look awesome on a big LCD in the backbox?

GoT-Logo.jpg

Now set that next to the fisher-price playfield artwork.

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Blech. Quite a missed opportunity here--the show is just so full of rich source material. Lots of artwork, architecture, characters, costumes, creatures, and not to mention all the mode/quest possibilities, jackpot and multiball modes staged as battles---it could be an epic theme. This is why everyone has been so excited about seeing a GOT theme and why they have been so let down by what has been presented so far.

I'd say take this one back to the drawing board, do it right, bring on some advisors/fans familiar with the show, and in the meantime just to keep the assembly line occupied, maybe churn out some more VE's or whatnot.

Something like this!

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Those were some funny comments boys - I've been giggling for 5 minutes!!!

Bwuhaahaahaahaaaaaa

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Is there an "upvote" this post for clarity, knowledge, passion and super needed consumer feedback from potential collectors, pinball fanatics and professional talented artists. Id like to upvote it a lot.

Don't lie to people that the licensor held you back. Bullshit. No way hbo said you have to have a stupid out of place piece of metal in the bottom of the playfield with shields with the logos, not torn up banners. Don't get some guy to paint over a picture and call that art. It blows. Big shield inserts that look so out of place. The best thing stern could do right now is tweeks to the prem and le playfields. Get rid of the silver shield and blend in more of the map in the background. Make the house shields house banners. Nail the premium art with hardhome, john snow on one side and a white walker on the other, with the battle with the Zombies ominously in the back ground. Back glass of the nights king and his zombie minions and demon horses.

And you know they are going to blow the immersion even more by not having any clips or voices from the show. Another "you're on your own journey to be a knight and try to be king." This is fucking crap code design. They want you to think you are playing the journey when its a cop out so Stern can save on not paying for the rights to the show clips (which help theme immersion immensely).

Will they get the same redneck from TWD to do GoT? That'd be hilarious

I love the show, I'm not in love with the pin.

Or custom made backlit Metal apron ?

I just peed my pants!

The longer I look at this PF... The more it looks like a Zizzle... And what is sad, I think a Zizzle looks better...

+1

I do think the art in the mini playfield in the upper left is decent.

I think the shot indicators look like dunce-cap-wearing-elves. WAIT A SECOND...

-mof

It's not elves in dunce-caps...

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Wait for it...

I know I've seen this pattern before, but it's been almost 40 years...

I guess I'm gonna be thinking about the solar system first time I play GOT Pro in a bar somewhere...

-mof

interplanet-janet1.png

Utterly disappointed! I really dig the show and its brutality for what the theme is. The artwork looks weak, the pro is totally stripped down, and no lcd. How can Stern raise prices and put put this weak shit out? I'm not buying, and all you suckers who pay top dollar just keep feeding their hungry machine. I'm hopeful it plays well and I'll definitely play it on location but I'll wait for SM!

Another NIB Stern I will be passing on.........

I'm listening to Nate's podcast, and my mind kinda went the same way... Are we sure this is real? Only, I've never seen the show -- but I've seen a bunch of show trailers and commercials, and the show seems to be very beautiful and dangerous -- nothing in this art package conveys the beauty or danger of the show from what I've seen so far. It's almost like a foreign copy, from someone who hasn't seen the show. It just doesn't add up to me.

I too can't help but think this was horribly rushed. It just doesn't feel cohesive.
-mof

At least HBO didn't insist on a gigantic logo on the translite like AMC did on TWD (and thus wrecking the backbox)

You meant to say "Still nearly $4800 for a ..." because that is easily the going rate for a stern pro *shipped*.

I have never seen the show so can't say it is a must for me and can understand the use of some gears given the time setting but just seems like it is almost going steampunk as a little too many gears.

There are some elements that are cool and some that are terrible:
-nice that stern provided 3d renders of the game which are nice quality but the game components will never look this so doubt the finished product will match these images.
- I like the sword idea for stopping the ball and letting just one ball at a time through from the ball lock (I think) - can see the sword getting some realistic mod upgrades
- the shield inserts are cool, and new for this game which is nice and original but the playfield looks a little over powered by them all - almost out of proportion or unbalanced.
- the super jackpot / wildfire log looks like a similar Dutch Pinball rug idea concept idea.
- the pro is radically different and looks too bland and empty in the back lhs corner - wonder if some one would contemplate a mini-playfield mode for the pro. Someone could get a le and pro and compare and could possibly do well in a $1000 kit to bolt in??? to add features like a le....
- in a way it is better without characters on the playfield to make it a little more appealing in the future but the trans and cabinet art on the pro especially is crap.

Personally, I think this might be the nicest looking Steve Ritchie game yet. His games are historically really ugly. He is known for great flow not great art packages.

Star Trek - the Playfield felt like the wrong colors and had almost no artwork at all. Great game though.

Acdc - a bunch of old men. The artwork is hideous. The game looks decent due to lighting and lower pf. (Pro is as ugly as it gets). Game is loads of fun though.

Spider-Man - this actually looks pretty nice. Perhaps Spider-Man is his nicest looking game. The plastics are actually the worst part of this art package. Such a good game though.

24 - horrible with the grid of inserts. This is one of the fugliest playfieds ever made.

T3 - colorless. Poor quality art. Fun game though.

Of all his Williams games, I think no fear is the only one with decent artwork.

I'm sorry but the artwork package looks like it was "throne" up.

Not a fan of this at all. I agree with others that have said the pf art is weak as well. Maybe in person the appeal will change but I'm not thinking so. Time will tell.

Fair enough wrap up. But I think the problem here may not be that it is ugly. I think the bigger issue for most is that it is either lame or misses the mood by too much.

After watching the promo trailer, I realized they had such a great opportunity to make a "Rube Goldberg" sorta game based on the intro to the show. I would've loved to see that. But instead, they gave us all another bright, characterless, cheap pinball machine we'll all forget about in a month. Too bad.

I seem to remember way back when people were speculating on GOT as a theme, and one of the concerns voiced was what they would focus on since the series has so many characters and locations. Seems like those fears were well founded as they don't seem to have done a good job of capturing the mood of the show in any aspect. The original playfield art for The Hobbit, while flawed, had much more the color pallette and style that I think most were expecting for GOT.

But the question then becomes...What percentage of the target market had actually played those pins?

I'm betting the answer is not many.

So if those have popular elements and most potential buyers are not familiar with them, combining them has certain logic.

This thread reminds me of the sort of thread I see on the mazda miata forum when a new model is released. You have the enthusiasts which make up a small percentage of potential buyers but are the most obsessed with each generation of miata and it's design and how it's not right. And you have mazda designing a car and trying to create organic growth for a model that has been around for two decades and a buyer that is nothing like the enthusiast.

I'm not taken sides, just pointing out the parallels between the two that I see.

This is one of the best well thought out posts on Pinside in a while. May be long, but worth the read. I think it tries to highlight the difference between having passion for a product and just getting it done.

Just paraphrasing Stern's listed MSRP of $5995 for Pro, not including discounts. Even at $4800, it looks as if it's way to de-contented to be considered, unless you're putting it in a bar. Just my opinion.

There's a lot of gnashing of teeth on this artwork. To me, the cabinet artwork could be better, but it's not a deal breaker as much as the playfield artwork. Even the playfield artwork is really not much different in style and execution than other Stern games, so its look should not be that big of a surprise, either in the cabinet or the playfield.

A Stern game looks like a Stern game, much the way a Chevy looks like a Chevy and a Ford looks like a Ford.

I'm no graphics designer, but it appears to me that Stern uses the same basic playfield design format of dropping pre-generated shapes down onto a computer generated playfield, and then doing a photoshop addition of characters, miscellaneous art, and figures to fill in when possible. It looks to me, very much like a bunch of individual images pasted together like a collage.

I think someone said it's like a Saturday morning cartoon, and I can see that. I think Marvel comics type art would be tremendous as a direction to head, if Stern was to try something different.

Now I'm not saying that it is all bad, it is just their style, and beyond the selection of artwork, you either like the style and execution, or don't. They push three games out a year, and so there's probably a lot of pressure to bring arwork to a conclusion at a deadline for production schedules. That likely leads to compromises.

Also, as a comparison, all the characters on a WOZ are outlined in colors, so it's kind of the same thing, but comes off differently, probably due mostly to the types of images used and the blend of artwork background.

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Im wondering if when hitting the ramp that goes through the castle if it will upper flippers will be active and that feature will be in constant use-or if the ball will smoothly travel through the castle to the wire form to the left flipper. Hopefully the castle is only active when the ball travels through the elevator.

I've heard it's impossible to have the other playfields flippers be disabled when the upper playfield is not in play. So, I would expect those upper flippers to be active all the time.

I told my dealer I'm not buying the LE and if Stern asks him for feedback (he's a major distributor) I said tell them the artwork is not well received.

His reply was he'd tell them but he thinks they already know.

What's impossible? Acdc doesn't have the lower PF flippers active unles the lower PF is in use?

I'm also curious and puzzled why they needed full size flippers on the small PF?

How could it be impossible to program that? Family Guy did it with the Stewi mini playfield with no problem at all. Sometimes the buttons would work for the main flippers, sometimes the top, and sometimes all four.

I just don't believe they can't do it. I think they just don't want to take the time to do it.

I wonder why WoZ doesnt do that then ...

The programmer of tspp and woz, Keith, specifically won't do it but he is not working on Got.

Could this pin be like the ugly girl that was the best fuq ? Lol just saying

We've seen how quickly even the most vociferous mob can change directions on Pinside...I mean, look at the whole MMR color DMD thing.

If there's literally ANY excuse - some cool feature, some neato dots, or (gasp) even an interesting shot or two - Game of Thrones will be a quick favorite around here despite the atrocious artwork.