(Topic ID: 185135)

Game boots starts a game then....


By chuckwurt

2 years ago



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  • 58 posts
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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by chuckwurt
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There are 58 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 2 years ago

See video. Never seen this before. Game boots fine then when you start a game it starts, but no game sounds, no coil reset sequence, and the ball doesn't shoot into the shooter lane. The game just freezes.

Both my MPU and SDBs have been serviced and rebuilt by Andrew Spilter so I assume my problem is Not there. Basically the only boards that aren't new are the sound board and the power supply board.

Thanks for the help!!

#2 2 years ago

Balls registering in the trough?

#3 2 years ago

Try disconnecting the sound board ribbon and power cables and try again. Worth a shot.

#4 2 years ago

Self-test button do anything or has the CPU jumped the rails?

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Self-test button do anything or has the CPU jumped the rails?

Self test button goes to the first test (displays) and freezes at the 1 digit test.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Try disconnecting the sound board ribbon and power cables and try again. Worth a shot.

thanks. That didn't help either. Reseated all cables and connectors on every board. I've also repinned all the connectors in the past.

#7 2 years ago

No solenoids at all?
Check rectifier board TP5 for +43 vdc solenoid voltage, then check MPU TP3 +21.5 vdc (comes from +43 vdc solenoid voltage)

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

No solenoids at all?

Correct. Happened mid game. Flippers why dead and then I rebooted and started another game. Flippers went dead again, then I could reboot, but game freezes when I hit game start. However, during the game start sequence the drop target banks all reset and then the ball is kicked to the shooter lane, so this might be an issue. I'll get to checking these voltages.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

No solenoids at all?
Check rectifier board TP5 for +43 vdc solenoid voltage, then check MPU TP3 +21.5 vdc (comes from +43 vdc solenoid voltage)

It looks like more of a problem than just the solenoids. It looks like the MPU locks up. Especially if it freezes on the display self test. I would check the 5v and 12v voltages used for the MPU and make sure they are not low. My guess would be that once it starts putting a load on it the voltages drop too low for it to handle and locks it up.

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

No solenoids at all?
Check rectifier board TP5 for +43 vdc solenoid voltage, then check MPU TP3 +21.5 vdc (comes from +43 vdc solenoid voltage)

Okay:

TP1 - good
TP2 - good
TP3 - good
TP4 - nothing. as in no volts. Supposed to be 7.3 per schmatics
TP5 - 6 volts. supposed to be 43 like you said.

I would say this is a problem. haha. So what is the next step?

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from kguenther6:

It looks like more of a problem than just the solenoids. It looks like the MPU locks up. Especially if it freezes on the display self test. I would check the 5v and 12v voltages used for the MPU and make sure they are not low. My guess would be that once it starts putting a load on it the voltages drop too low for it to handle and locks it up.

Hey Ken! if you have time tonight, hit me up. Maybe we can figure out some of this.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Okay:
TP1 - good
TP2 - good
TP3 - good
TP4 - nothing. as in no volts. Supposed to be 7.3 per schmatics
TP5 - 6 volts. supposed to be 43 like you said.
I would say this is a problem. haha. So what is the next step?

TP4 is AC....did you have your meter set to DC? Not going to be zero since your GI lamps are working.

TP5: First thing to check is the under the playfield fuse might be blown. Next check fuse F4 on the power supply regulator board. Also check it's fuse clip is in good condition with good tension, and is not brown. Now check TP5 (test point 5) on the power supply regulator board. You should get about 43 vdc. If no voltage at TP5, assume the bridge BR3 on this board is bad and replace it.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

TP4 is AC....did you have your meter set to DC? Not going to be zero since your GI lamps are working.

yeah I was on DC when I tested. that one is good.

Quoted from wayout440:

P5: First thing to check is the under the playfield fuse might be blown. Next check fuse F4 on the power supply regulator board. Also check it's fuse clip is in good condition with good tension, and is not brown.

Tested both fuses out of the game and they tested fine.

Quoted from wayout440:

Now check TP5 (test point 5) on the power supply regulator board. You should get about 43 vdc. If no voltage at TP5, assume the bridge BR3 on this board is bad and replace it.

Replaced F4 just for shits and the TP5 is still only testing at like 6 volts. Still think that the BR3 needs replaced?

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Replaced F4 just for shits and the TP5 is still only testing at like 6 volts. Still think that the BR3 needs replaced?

If you have AC to the input of the bridge, then yes, I'd say next move is to replace BR3. Make sure R1 across the bridge is 600 ohms.
If no AC is getting to bridge inputs ,check for presence of AC at the fuse clip for F4 (one meter lead on pin 6 of the transformer, then touch the other lead to each fuse clip) You should have something about 50 to 70AC, then check for the same across varistor VR1.

#15 2 years ago

Test the BR3 with your MM. Put your MM on diode function. put the black lead on the offset pin and the red lead on the one of the pins next to it (not diagonally across) and you should get between .4 and .6. Then put the red lead on the other pin next to it and you should get the same. Then move the red lead to the pin diagonally from the offset pin and test the 2 pins next to it (not the offset pin diagonally from it) with the black lead. You should get .4 to .6 again with the other 2 pins. If that doesn't make sense give me a call.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from kguenther6:

Test the BR3 with your MM. Put your MM on diode function. put the black lead on the offset pin and the red lead on the one of the pins next to it (not diagonally across) and you should get between .4 and .6. Then put the red lead on the other pin next to it and you should get the same. Then move the red lead to the pin diagonally from the offset pin and test the 2 pins next to it (not the offset pin diagonally from it) with the black lead. You should get .4 to .6 again with the other 2 pins. If that doesn't make sense give me a call.

Okay so see the picture. I did all three of those tests and they all came back at .5 so that appears normal.

Board (resized).JPG

#17 2 years ago

Does TP5 ever measure 43V? I would assume it does since MPU needs it to boot.

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Okay so see the picture. I did all three of those tests and they all came back at .5 so that appears normal.

That is why I suggested taking measurements to see where the voltage is getting lost. Your bridge may be fine, but you need to find out if the proper AC voltage is even getting to it

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Does TP5 ever measure 43V? I would assume it does since MPU needs it to boot.

It is now. My other DMM was acting all kinds of weird so I upgraded to another one. Now TP5 is showing 43v.

Quoted from wayout440:

That is why I suggested taking measurements to see where the voltage is getting lost. Your bridge may be fine, but you need to find out if the proper AC voltage is even getting to it

Okay sorry. bear with me here. I am a pretty green DMM user, so I am sure I am doing all this testing out of order. I am going to try your transformer test now.

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

That is why I suggested taking measurements to see where the voltage is getting lost. Your bridge may be fine, but you need to find out if the proper AC voltage is even getting to it

I'm not sure the test was done right. On most BR's one pin is inset more than the other 3. I don't see that on this one. But it may be fine. Wayout is correct, you need to see if the voltage is getting to it. I'm free tonight if you want to hit me up. But I'm just an amateur at this stuff.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

check for presence of AC at the fuse clip for F4 (one meter lead on pin 6 of the transformer, then touch the other lead to each fuse clip) You should have something about 50 to 70AC, then check for the same across varistor VR1.

Okay so I think I understand the first part: Set to AC and put either lead on F4's fuse clip, then the other lead on tab 6 of the transformer.

What is the varistor VR1 and how do I do the same test?

#22 2 years ago

Your video looks like you are missing 43v at the playfield. The game is probably constantly trying to clear the outhole solenoid because the switch is closed, making it look dead.

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Your video looks like you are missing 43v at the playfield. The game is probably constantly trying to clear the outhole solenoid because the switch is closed, making it look dead.

Okay, but I didn't even hear it try and clear the outhole once. Are you saying the switch may be shorted closed? Because there is no ball in there and the switch blades are not touching.

#24 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Okay, but I didn't even hear it try and clear the outhole once. Are you saying the switch may be shorted closed? Because there is no ball in there and the switch blades are not touching.

switch is fine. The game computer sees it closed, but it can't knock the ball to the shooter lane. Gives the appearance of locked up as it tries endlessly to clear the outhole switch. Since the MPU boots up, we can assume +43v is available because the MPU needs it for power on selft test #7

Check out the outhole coil. I cant remember if it is under the apron or if you can get at it from the underside of hte PF. Check it for +43v.... no wires fell off etc. Should be PF fuse to check too.

#25 2 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

switch is fine. The game computer sees it closed, but it can't knock the ball to the shooter lane. Gives the appearance of locked up as it tries endlessly to clear the outhole switch. Since the MPU boots up, we can assume +43v is available because the MPU needs it for power on selft test #7
Check out the outhole coil. I cant remember if it is under the apron or if you can get at it from the underside of hte PF. Check it for +43v.... no wires fell off etc. Should be PF fuse to check too.

However he said:

Quoted from chuckwurt:

Because there is no ball in there and the switch blades are not touching.

Would this still apply? Might be something wrong on the board?

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

However he said:

Would this still apply? Might be something wrong on the board?

I missed that. The original video does still look like the exact symptom of blown PF fuse causing the MPU to endlessly try to clear the outhole, yet cant.

You can send me back the MPU and/or driver and I can check / repair. Maybe a switch's PIA port crapped out.

#27 2 years ago

Once you told me you had meter issues and now you actually have solenoid voltage at TP5, that totally negates the need to do the tests I suggested. Carry on....

#28 2 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I missed that. The original video does still look like the exact symptom of blown PF fuse causing the MPU to endlessly try to clear the outhole, yet cant.
You can send me back the MPU and/or driver and I can check / repair. Maybe a switch's PIA port crapped out.

However maybe he NEEDS to put the ball in as well? Clearly there's an issue (a real, different one) but I'm saying that also perhaps the ball does need to be in the outlane - so once you fix something else and it could be working again, remember to do testing with the ball in the machine. Then it could be a transistor for the coil, the coil, or anything, it opens up a bunch more opportunities/possibilities.

I was working on a customer's Centaur and I don't think it would start correctly until the last ball was in the trough, if I'm not mistaken. Not sure how this translates over to Stern games.

#29 2 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Once you told me you had meter issues and now you actually have solenoid voltage at TP5, that totally negates the need to do the tests I suggested. Carry on....

Sorry for the confusion Wayout and thanks for being patient with me.

Okay, so I tested the power at the outhole coil and i am getting 43v

I will put the ball back in the game and see if anything different happens.

#30 2 years ago

Okay if I put the ball in the game, it boots and when i hit start, the ball lauches to the shooter lane and the game freezes like it did before.

#31 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Sorry for the confusion Wayout and thanks for being patient with me.
Okay, so I tested the power at the outhole coil and i am getting 43v
I will put the ball back in the game and see if anything different happens.

while doing that. try and start a game gently flex on mpu j4, mpu j1, mpu u10, mpu u11 and driver board j4. just push lightly with finger, see if it spits the ball out. Might have a connection issue.

If you are stuck, send me back the boards and I will take care of it. Sorry you are having trouble.

#32 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Sorry for the confusion Wayout and thanks for being patient with me.

Okay, so I tested the power at the outhole coil and i am getting 43v

I will put the ball back in the game and see if anything different happens.

You said it locks up on the display test. And after watching the video again I don't see any lights on the playfield after you try to start a game. I still think its an issue with the 5v or 12v to the MPU or the MPU board has an issue.

#33 2 years ago

And also, now when I try to boot the game (ball in it or not) I only get 6 beeps out of 7.

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

And also, now when I try to boot the game (ball in it or not) I only get 6 beeps out of 7.

ooh that is a clue. Check for 21v on the MPU. I think it is TP3, bottom left corner.

interrupt problems if no 7th flash.

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

ooh that is a clue. Check for 21v on the MPU. I think it is TP3, bottom left corner.
interrupt problems if no 7th flash.

okay it did the 7th beep when I was just standing there getting ready to test. Anyway, I am getting like 1v at TP3. Something definitely seems to be getting only intermittent connection or power.

No worries at all though. I appreciate everyone's help as always. I am also learning in the process which is great.

#36 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

okay it did the 7th beep when I was just standing there getting ready to test. Anyway, I am getting like 1v at TP3. Something definitely seems to be getting only intermittent connection or power.

Those solder joints on the BRs look bad from the pic. Might try and reflow the solder on them.

#37 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

okay it did the 7th beep when I was just standing there getting ready to test. Anyway, I am getting like 1v at TP3. Something definitely seems to be getting only intermittent connection or power.

Check on the left side of R113 for 43v. Be careful, dont slip the probe.

MPU j4-15 goes to rectifier J3 pin 12 (43v)

#38 2 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Check on the left side of R113 for 43v. Be careful, dont slip the probe.
MPU j4-15 goes to rectifier J3 pin 12 (43v)

Is R113 the tan one or the blue one?

IMG_5663 (resized).PNG

#39 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Is R113 the tan one or the blue one?

it is the 2.2k 1/2w resistor. Tan with red red red gold. If you have no 43v on left side of R113, check out connectors mpu j4 p15 and rectifier j3 p12

#40 2 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

it is the 2.2k 1/2w resistor. Tan with red red red gold. If you have no 43v on left side of R113, check out connectors mpu j4 p15 and rectifier j3 p12

My lead won't fit in the .100 connector feamale end to test j4 p15. Any tips on how to test that?

#41 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Okay if I put the ball in the game, it boots and when i hit start, the ball lauches to the shooter lane and the game freezes like it did before.

Quoted from barakandl:

just push lightly with finger, see if it spits the ball out.

Still on the same page here? Just making sure you don't get confused. Says he replied only a minute before you did so I figured it may have been easy to miss.

Ball spits out consistently/every time you try that now? (Power cycling the game and starting a new game with the ball in the trough)

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from Otaku:

Ball spits out consistently/every time you try that now? (Power cycling the game and starting a new game with the ball in the trough)

No. After the first one, it consistently boots with 6 beeps then the 7th comes like a minute after the game has been on. Haha

#43 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

My lead won't fit in the .100 connector feamale end to test j4 p15. Any tips on how to test that?

Can I hook alligator clips to a paper clip and stick it in there?

#44 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Can I hook alligator clips to a paper clip and stick it in there?

You can usually get a probe in the back side where the contact slide in. Just be careful. Bally put 43v connectors butted up against 5v ones (derp!)

If you had no volts on R113 with MPU j4 plugged in, problem is probably at the rectifier board connectors.

#45 2 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

You can usually get a probe in the back side where the contact slide in. Just be careful. Bally put 43v connectors butted up against 5v ones (derp!)
If you had no volts on R113 with MPU j4 plugged in, problem is probably at the rectifier board connectors.

Yeah I was getting like 2 at R113. Just checked J3 p12 on the rectifier board. Zero. see pic below. The one circled is what I tested with the game powered on.

Board 2 (resized).jpg

#46 2 years ago

Oh and after I plugged the rectifier connectors back in, the game booted fine (no ball in trough)

#47 2 years ago

picture of back side of rectifier board? Looks like you have it off of the transformer mount already

Rectifier J3 P12 (and p9 and p13, but P12 goes to MPU) is 43v for solenoids and zero crossing interrupt circuit.

#48 2 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

picture of back side of rectifier board? Looks like you have it off of the transformer mount already
Rectifier J3 P12 (and p9 and p13, but P12 goes to MPU) is 43v for solenoids and zero crossing interrupt circuit.

heres the only one I got of it before mounting it back on

IMG_5659 (resized).JPG

#49 2 years ago

Can't see for sure, but looks like the solder joint might be bad here. The one circled should be p9

Untitled (resized).png

#50 2 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Can't see for sure, but looks like the solder joint might be bad here. The one circled should be p9

I think you may be on to something. I tried to reflow solder there, but I suck. It looks okay, but now when I boot the game it got to six flashes, stopped, and then the 7th flash came a few seconds later. then it was trying to run through attract mode, but seemed like power was cutting in and out. I will get someone to come help me that is better at board soldering and report back.

I am also using 60/40 resin core solder which I think is wrong for boards, and I dont have an adjustable temp soldering iron.

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