It was a dark night for Stern! (again)

The level of license integration with GnR wasn't just due to some extra effort that JJP put in that other manufacturers don't. If that was all it took than JJP PotC would have over the top integration as well.

Slash came to them, wanting them to design a pinball machine, and gave them everything they could ask for and more as well as participated in the design process. Cuz he loves pinball. Great, but to expect that level of integration with every license is going to lead to disappointment.

Most licensors could give two sh*ts about pinball, probably make more money licensing lunchboxes.

In what way?

Stern is making bags of money and has been for months... distros cant even keep games in stock they have been selling so fast.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-dark-night-for-stern

what incentive does stern have here to do anything? as long as people keep shelling out for the same old thing over and over they'll continue to cash in. until sales start to dip they won't care.

Jesus fuck...more carguments please.

In no way, which was his point.

We all know we are in a pinball bubble that will deflate any second, causing a major crash in demand and prices. The only thing you can do to salvage some out of the current situation is to sell all your pins to me dirt cheap, before they become totally worthless

I disagree with 90% of what you are posting about in the thread, but I do agree that Stern could stand to punch up the LEs a little bit. It was nice when they finally started including the HD glass, upgraded speakers and a shaker (some LEs didn't have even that). But I miss the Star Trek LE level of bling with the lit up side rails, the emblems on the head, etc. Set it apart from the Premium just a bit more and added some wow factor.

Counterargument: AIQ:LE sold out on day one anyway, so...

Gary himself has even compared themselves to Ford. "More wire than a Ford Taurus."

There are two different markets really...

JJP caters to the more "collector" type who wants volumes of shit on their games and all the bling in the world.

Stern caters to more the hardcore players and locations who dont care how many RGB lights are going to blind them during mulitball.

I know very few actual "players" that compete etc that give a rip about JJP games.

That was the original idea with Stern’s LE line (see STLE), but that quickly devolved into “change the art package and have the developers sign a sticker”.

If Stern were to create an actual “premium” game it would be priced well over $10k and/or devalue the Pro/Premium/LE model. Not going to happen.

Stern has improved (in some ways significantly) since my “dark night” thread a few years ago. They still have plenty of room for improvement (e.g. playfield quality), but I can’t imagine a new model for game development and production is in their future plans.

It sounds like you don't fall into softcore or hardcore player. I'm thinking it's "high-end toy collector" player. And that's fine, if you want to spend many thousands of dollars on toys, go for it. But complaining that not all toy companies make high-end toys that cost $10,000 is absurd.

Since we are complaining into a void, here's what I want: less toys, less extravagant light shows, no useless powder coats, no useless toppers, basic art packages, basic games that are fun to play and don't cost many thousands of dollars.

Also, Beatles is a pretty great game based on the few times I've played it and the many times I have played Seawitch.

Sounds like it to me. It is a great game, horribly looking, sounding, and priced, but the play is awesome.
Its OK to want both, but a lot of people don't care. A fake metal hand on the machine doesn't give me a semi, neither does Hemsworth delicious voice.

Edit: i mean it has a fully realized look and sound, so its well done, just awful for me

So ... something like Batman 66 and Elvira House of Horrors?

Well we all see things differently. I didn't like the instrument overkill on the LE/CE but I do like the SE version. I prefer most Sterns in the Pro version. But using live footage with 50 year old rockers? I don't like that, I don't like the stock JJP kid like SFX and while the light show is great if the gameplay isn't there then who cares. Here's my thing, I want JJP to make pins in their style and I want Stern to stay the way they are. Why do we have to compare this all the time. JJP is a premium boutique manufacturer(for now)Stern is more mainstream. Other than that who gives a shit. Options are as good thing.

Oh man u said it.

I don't keep pins for very long and I'm a player first and foremost. I don't do mods or shakers or toppers. I always wished Stern would have adopted the Heighway method. Just give me a black solid cab so I can change out the PF's and translite and I have a new game to play.

Oh yeah
I could argue with Lee.

Crappola.

Stern and JJP are appels and oranges to me.
Stern games are fast flow games.
JJP is more like a solid 90 game, build like a tank.
Keith's games have more complex layout and shots.
Erik game's layout is more simple dress-up with more expensive toys and ramps.
So Keith is the better designer for me, sorry.
Al true Stern have a ton of people behind keith to back him up. While Erik at JJP have a small team.
Dailed in from pat is more a smooth remake from the 90's with a perfect playfield design.
Same as WW but simple layout beautiful dressded up.
At the end they make both beautiful games.

These “amazing assets” are all video from their current tour. Does any one really want to see a fat 60 year old axl Rose? Like it’s cool they they got so much stuff but... is it the right stuff? I fail to see how this is a better music pin than AC DC.

Agreed.

Bring on the downvotes, boys!

I watched a gameplay video of GnR and read their promotional language for the various models and man it seems like it's multiball heavy.

I think Elwin said in a recent interview that he tries to limit multiball, he tries to focus on single ball play. He also really puts energy into offering various strategies to approach beating a game and tries his best to not offer a single strategy that can almost "break" a game (Super Awesome Pinball interview).

A game is designed, from the ground up, with these basic goals in mind. IMO GnR looks like, from inception, multiball is a big part of the gameplay (even though you can make MB adjustments, the shots and gameplay look like they were designed around MB).

I have a large collection and already own Hobbit and PoTC. I have my Hobbit set up to severely limit the multiball, so it's not about chopping wood and is becomes about discovering the modes/adventures. PoTC is all about stacking multiballs to jump from a 100,000 score to 1,000,000 if you do it right...at those moments of multiball, it's a bit like flailing around. Still, to set those multiballs up takes a lot of skill -- so it stays in the collection.

I'll be in the market for 2-3 new machines in early 2021. At this point, I would shy away from GnR...the LE looks absolutely mind blowing for music; eye candy; light show effects; etc but I'm wary of the layout. Looks cluttered to me and MB heavy and I already have 2 JJP's that offer a similar experience. Contrast this with AIQ, which is so flowy and well-thought out; JP2 which I played about 10 times at an arcade in March and absolutely fell in love with (the shots just like nothing else, fun and varied and challenging - they get you thinking after you leave the arcade)...or even EHOH (which I also played 10 times at the same arcade) with the long ball times/"easier" but great flowy design and depth of the scenes/code. And Mr. Ritchie has yet to release Led Zep...

JJP's are jam packed with high quality components; busy screen stuff going on; great lights and sound, etc. But are they really boiling down the layout and trying to produce "classic" layouts that focus on success in single ball play?

Sterns are obviously cheaper in BOM and more flimsy for cabinet etc...but IMO the design and conception is lately at a higher level. It's all about the shot design; refinement; and rules. Not that JJP ISN'T about these things...just saying Stern and JJP seem like they are focusing on bringing different things to the user's experience.

It also was a cold night at Shawshank.

Oh shit I love the fan boys!
Zeppelin is by far the better band but I bet Steve is seeing GnR and saying I need mo money Gary!

GnR looks amazing and im buying an LE, BUT theres no way JJP will get that level of theme integration and IP access for future pins like Toy Story. This was a one-off case where slash knew Jack and reached out to make a Pin. They got unprecedented access to the IP.

I have avengers and GnR coming eventually. Im going to be interested to see which shoots better vs which looks better. GnR looks radically different and awesome, but I dont have a feel for how it shoots yet. Looking forward to it.

Ur stealing my Schtick man

I disagree, I've said it before Stern doesn't care what JJP is doing. A fast playing Zeppelin pin with Ritchie flow? ok probably gonna be light on the toys and features and I'm all for it, none the less JJP GnR is no threat.

I agree. Regarding the Zep pin, at the end of the day, I just hope it’s cool. That’s all we can ever hope for and it can be accomplished in a number of different ways, even if it’s not the same way as JJP’s approach.