Future of color dmd pricing


By tomh52722

7 months ago


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  • Latest reply 7 months ago by Taxman
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    There are 65 posts in topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 7 months ago

    I have not yet bought a color dmd, but know that they cost $300+. As more companies make electronics, prices usually drop over time (ex. A 55" led tv that used to cost $800 can now be bought for $350 around the holidays). I was just wondering what everyone thinks about color dmd pricing and whether other companies will get into this market, making them much less expensive in the coming years.

    17
    #2 7 months ago

    You aren't paying for the tech as much as the work goes into colorizing the dots.

    The price is unlikely to drop. If you are waiting for that, you'll be waiting for a long time.

    #3 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You aren't paying for the tech as much as the work goes into colorizing the dots.
    The price is unlikely to drop. If you are waiting for that, you'll be waiting for a long time.

    Ok maybe I don't understand it then. Are you saying they can't be mass produced then?

    #4 7 months ago
    Quoted from tomh52722:

    Ok maybe I don't understand it then. Are you saying they can't be mass produced then?

    anything can be mass produced, but it would need $$ upfront for 1000's of units

    #5 7 months ago
    Quoted from tomh52722:

    Are you saying they can't be mass produced then?

    Probably not. Making 100,000 of them, or a million of them, for a thousand games or two ?

    And it's isn't just the LCD. Lots of programming involved.

    LTG : )

    #6 7 months ago

    Ok I have officially been educated in the topic! Thank you

    #7 7 months ago

    You are not paying 400 for the LED/LCD panel, a large cost of the product is the software and continual upgrades of the technology. Just the coloring of the dmd frames takes hundreds of hours for a colorist. Then you have weeks of beta testing to ensure the colors didn't miss frames or sequences that rarely occur. I thought similarly to you until I got my first colordmd and inquired about the technology behind it. I was so impressed I joined the colorists and colored several titles in 2016.

    Quoted from tomh52722:

    Ok maybe I don't understand it then. Are you saying they can't be mass produced then?

    #8 7 months ago

    the good news is that the price has not risen since they started

    #9 7 months ago

    Wondering what colorists get paid for all those hours. Feels right to ask since my understanding was that it was "not much" and certainly far below what most people would get paid for "hundreds of hours" of work.. so I have to kind of automatically suspect that's an onerous part of the price. Proprietary software development, support, warranties, and licencing? That I'd believe, but I'm pretty sure most of the colorization work is being done for pennies on the dollar because colorists are doing games they want to do.

    *Edit* Very late edit... I meant to say NOT an onerous part of the price..

    #10 7 months ago

    The OP answered his own question:

    How many houses have a large screen LCD TV - VS - How many houses have a pinball machine?

    Manufacturing is plain and simple the volume of production. My guess is that these LCD panels being used for pinball DMD replacements are already costing around $20~30 maximum.

    As others have said it is NOT the electronics making the high sell price but the time and effort required to make the product work for only a handful of buyers (when compared with the millions of TVs built).

    #11 7 months ago

    And to me, still worth every cent. Even with the crappy exchange rate!

    Yes, you don't look at the display all that often when playing, but I enjoy watching others play, and that's when you notice all the little animations that you missed when all in one shade of orange.

    It's actually amazing to me how much information the original programmers could convey using one color. The ColorDMD highlights their skills, and if you think about it, shows how they would have presented their displays should the technology have been available at the time.

    Mike.

    #12 7 months ago

    Ok, how about the new games though? For example, I bought a met pro this week and would love to get a color dmd. I know they make them regularly for the premium, but am guessing that if I bought one it would be $400. All that I am asking is for someone to tell me that I can buy color dmd's for all my games next year for $200 each

    #14 7 months ago
    Quoted from tomh52722:

    All that I am asking is for someone to tell me that I can buy color dmd's for all my games next year for $200 each

    I think you will be waiting a long time for anyone to say that.

    #15 7 months ago

    On the plus side you can sell your old dmd for $75-$125 pending how new it is.

    #16 7 months ago
    Quoted from tomh52722:

    I bought a met pro this week and would love to get a color dmd. I know they make them regularly for the premium, but am guessing that if I bought one it would be $400. All that I am asking is for someone to tell me that I can buy color dmd's for all my games next year for $200 each

    You seem not to know things on this subject that are readily known and knowable. Or I have no idea what you're talking about with the Pro vs. Premium thing.

    -2
    #17 7 months ago
    Quoted from stevevt:

    You seem not to know things on this subject that are readily known and knowable. Or I have no idea what you're talking about with the Pro vs. Premium thing.

    Yeah I was kidding about that but if you would like to share your knowledge about what is readily known or knowable related to met pro versus met premium, I would love to hear it.

    #18 7 months ago
    Quoted from tomh52722:

    Yeah I was kidding about that but if you would like to share your knowledge about what is readily known or knowable related to met pro versus met premium, I would love to hear it.

    Here ya go:

    The distinction between Pro and Premium is irrelevant here.

    Now you know.

    #19 7 months ago

    When you buy a colordmd it arrives not progammed for any game
    you intall it , download the appropriate ROM, put it on a usb stick and then upload to what ever game you want
    if you want to use it on a different game, then move the display over and install the new ROM

    #20 7 months ago

    Ok now I got it I thought premium came with color dmd. Now I see where you are coming from. Thanks

    #21 7 months ago

    Interesting topic to me as I have always thought if they could find away to lower the price point just abit it would increase sales. With that in mind I have been suprised they have not tried a "sale" to test the theory during the holidays. At the end of the day they have the market so I guess a holiday sale is not needed.

    #22 7 months ago
    Quoted from tomh52722:

    Ok, how about the new games though? For example, I bought a met pro this week and would love to get a color dmd. I know they make them regularly for the premium, but am guessing that if I bought one it would be $400. All that I am asking is for someone to tell me that I can buy color dmd's for all my games next year for $200 each

    They cost $400. I seriously doubt the price will be reduced because it is essentially a monopoly. ColorDMD also has patents on the product so that is a hurdle to someone trying to have a competing product.

    11
    #23 7 months ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    the good news is that the price has not risen since they started

    This... same price on LCD since 2012, even while LCD screens have become more costly and increasingly harder to find. Also during a period where new and used game prices have risen about 50%.

    New LED displays were designed and released last year at an even lower price point.

    #24 7 months ago
    Quoted from waldo34:

    Interesting topic to me as I have always thought if they could find away to lower the price point just abit it would increase sales. With that in mind I have been suprised they have not tried a "sale" to test the theory during the holidays. At the end of the day they have the market so I guess a holiday sale is not needed.

    Somebody in another thread made the observation that if colorDMD had a holiday sale, everybody would hold off buying them until their yearly sale

    #25 7 months ago
    Quoted from Dmod:

    This... same price on LCD since 2012, even while LCD screens have become more costly and increasingly harder to find. Also during a period where new and used game prices have risen about 50%.
    New LED displays were designed and released last year at an even lower price point.

    If you ran a sale, I would buy more.

    I have them in a handful of my games and would buy more/ quantity if I got sale price. With the increase in in new and used games, I spend my money on those in place of mods. (side note: what the heck games are you buying that have gone up 50% in 5 years?)

    #26 7 months ago

    @tomh52722. I look at it this way. We pay almost $700AUD here depending on our dollar at the time of purchase. I don't move them on when I sell a game. So it's not like you have to lose that money everytime you turnover a game. Same with PDI glass. I love the stuff but man it's expensive. So if the time comes to sell a game out goes the colour DMD and the PDI glass and in goes the original gear. If the buyer sees the game with all the bells and whistles and wants it then adjust the price accordingly to cover replacement. Easy Well easy for me.

    #27 7 months ago

    Ok, reading through this thread again, it sounds like one reason that pricing is where it's at is that there is a lot of labor that goes into colorizing each game. There is also the point that mass producing items with relatively small market for each title (ex. Even if all were still in existence and every owner wanted one, there were only something like 7,000 demolition man pinball machines produced).

    Here is what I don't understand though. If the color dmds are interchangeable and you just download the new ROM (for free, I'm assuming), then why wouldn't other manufacturers get into this business? It sounds like the work is in writing the code for each title, but that code is then just downloaded from the website.

    Maybe I am missing something here, but this is interesting for sure.

    Similar to whysnow, I would probably buy them for all of my (five) games if they ever dropped to a lower price point.

    #28 7 months ago

    WORST. THREAD. EVER.

    #29 7 months ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    WORST. THREAD. EVER.

    You know how you can tell? I can't even think of a wise-assed remark to make.

    #30 7 months ago
    Quoted from tomh52722:

    Ok, reading through this thread again, it sounds like one reason that pricing is where it's at is that there is a lot of labor that goes into colorizing each game. There is also the point that mass producing items with relatively small market for each title (ex. Even if all were still in existence and every owner wanted one, there were only something like 7,000 demolition man pinball machines produced).
    Here is what I don't understand though. If the color dmds are interchangeable and you just download the new ROM (for free, I'm assuming), then why wouldn't other manufacturers get into this business? It sounds like the work is in writing the code for each title, but that code is then just downloaded from the website.
    Maybe I am missing something here, but this is interesting for sure.
    Similar to whysnow, I would probably buy them for all of my (five) games if they ever dropped to a lower price point.

    It's a niche market and colordmd has done an awesome job custom packing their kits and making everything super easy to install. The hardware is also not interchangeable between most of the game systems. So you have a wpc kit, a wpc95 kit, a white star kit, a Sam kit, a data east kit, etc. Other people have tried and failed as it's simply not that easy. This is a small niche market, it's not going to be cheap so what you are wanting is completely unrealistic.

    #31 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You aren't paying for the tech as much as the work goes into colorizing the dots.
    The price is unlikely to drop. If you are waiting for that, you'll be waiting for a long time.

    So out of curiosity, enough people have done colorization on games. Some have done multiple games, but it's a pretty good sample size. How much does ColorDMD pay them for each game? If that is the cost we pay for it, how much is it?

    And yes, I love ColorDMD. There are some games that look incomplete to me without it. It is one of the best additions you can put in a game. But if we are quoting labor as the largest balance of the cost, how much does the person doing the work get?

    #32 7 months ago

    The price is the price, there is no negotiating. (LOL NAME THE MOVIE)

    #33 7 months ago
    Quoted from tomh52722:

    Here is what I don't understand though. If the color dmds are interchangeable and you just download the new ROM (for free, I'm assuming), then why wouldn't other manufacturers get into this business? It sounds like the work is in writing the code for each title, but that code is then just downloaded from the website.
    Maybe I am missing something here, but this is interesting for sure.

    Not interesting at all, just illegal. I'm sure you will find lots of companies willing to build lcd panels and interface hardware that all sales are based on illegal downloads. Where's Napster now?

    #34 7 months ago

    You can get a PIN2DMD color LED display kit for about $180 and program it yourself. That's what I would suggest if you're concerned about price.

    #35 7 months ago

    Spends thousands on pinball machine, doesn't add most awesome mod because it's $400

    #36 7 months ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    You can get a PIN2DMD color LED display kit for about $180 and program it yourself. That's what I would suggest if you're concerned about price.

    Because there is no comparison.

    Sorry, those 4 color mode palettes look like garbage. Maybe it makes some screens a little more interesting than orange but many screens it just looks stupid because the 4 color pallet just does not fit what colors should be there.

    To save a few dollars and have to go through the hassle of pretty much building it yourself rather than a nice plug and play system. ColorDMD also offers nice blending modes on the LCD version, a massive library of full colored supported games and support that can't be beat.

    It is cute to tell someone how wonderful it is to program it yourself. But from the questions I see from people about trying to get them to work I think many of these things have been abandoned and tossed in a drawer out of frustration.

    #37 7 months ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    Spends thousands on pinball machine, doesn't add most awesome mod because it's $400

    You have to draw a line somewhere with any purchase you make, car, house, home remodel, appliances.

    #38 7 months ago
    Quoted from PoMC:

    You have to draw a line somewhere with any purchase you make, car, house, home remodel, appliances.

    Ya, draw the line after the ColorDMD!

    #39 7 months ago

    Since ColorDMD has come out it is pretty much the only MOD where you get back what you put into it. Most mods are game specific and the seller of a game does not want to remove it and eat he cost. With ColorDMD you will see the game listed with or without the device and a $400 difference in price.

    The biggest draw back is having a game without one next to a game with one.

    #40 7 months ago
    Quoted from tomh52722:

    Ok, reading through this thread again, it sounds like one reason that pricing is where it's at is that there is a lot of labor that goes into colorizing each game. There is also the point that mass producing items with relatively small market for each title (ex. Even if all were still in existence and every owner wanted one, there were only something like 7,000 demolition man pinball machines produced).
    Here is what I don't understand though. If the color dmds are interchangeable and you just download the new ROM (for free, I'm assuming), then why wouldn't other manufacturers get into this business? It sounds like the work is in writing the code for each title, but that code is then just downloaded from the website.
    Maybe I am missing something here, but this is interesting for sure.
    Similar to whysnow, I would probably buy them for all of my (five) games if they ever dropped to a lower price point.

    There is a patent that makes it not a smart idea to make a competing product that uses the same hardware and runs the same code.
    Regarding taking ColorDMD's coloring code for the games they have colored and using it in a competing product, I doubt it would be that easy. ColorDMD likely has protected code in its processor to run the coloring software that is not readily available to a person wanting to make the competing product.

    #41 7 months ago
    Quoted from Taxman:

    Because there is no comparison.
    Sorry, those 4 color mode palettes look like garbage. Maybe it makes some screens a little more interesting than orange but many screens it just looks stupid because the 4 color pallet just does not fit what colors should be there.
    To save a few dollars and have to go through the hassle of pretty much building it yourself rather than a nice plug and play system. ColorDMD also offers nice blending modes on the LCD version, a massive library of full colored supported games and support that can't be beat.
    It is cute to tell someone how wonderful it is to program it yourself. But from the questions I see from people about trying to get them to work I think many of these things have been abandoned and tossed in a drawer out of frustration.

    Good points, but I was only suggesting based strictly on price, not implying one replaces the other based on ease of setup/features.

    #42 7 months ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    There is a patent that makes it not a smart idea to make a competing product that uses the same hardware and runs the same code.

    Link to patent on http://uspto.gov please

    Edit: found it

    http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20120190440.PGNR.

    ... Altan

    #43 7 months ago
    Quoted from altan:

    Link to patent on http://uspto.gov please
    Edit: found it
    http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20120190440.PGNR.
    ... Altan

    I believe US 9,449,402 is the patent with broader claims that is likely more important for infringement purposes.

    #44 7 months ago

    How about people like me that have the standard MMR? You have to pay $399 but don't actually get a new display. I wasn't 'plugged into' all of the drama around the colorization of MMR; although I recognize there were some marketing issues/product expectations that resulted in the tiered pricing between the std and LE version. However, having to pay the same $ as the 'sets' that include a new display doesn't sit well and feels like I would be getting less value for the same $ as other titles.

    #45 7 months ago
    Quoted from Oldgoat:

    How about people like me that have the standard MMR? You have to pay $399 but don't actually get a new display. I wasn't 'plugged into' all of the drama around the colorization of MMR; although I recognize there were some marketing issues/product expectations that resulted in the tiered pricing between the std and LE version. However, having to pay the same $ as the 'sets' that include a new display doesn't sit well and feels like I would be getting less value for the same $ as other titles.

    And you can't take it out and put it in another machine.

    However the coloring for MMR is pretty awesome and I'm sure those guys worked long hours to get it looking so good.

    #46 7 months ago

    I think it's a lot of first time buyers that complain about the price. Once you've seen one in person you kind of make room in your budget.

    For all of the bellyaching, they do seem to sell out pretty often.

    #47 7 months ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    The price is the price, there is no negotiating. (LOL NAME THE MOVIE)

    Taken!!!

    #48 7 months ago

    yes its a lot of money.

    but you get ABSOLUTELY fantastic value for money...

    I have three and will order one for TWD when the LED is back in stock, its simply the best pinball mod.

    #49 7 months ago

    And they would have to sell some serious numbers of them to ever reach market saturation where they would have to drop the price to sell them.

    #50 7 months ago

    Buy 3 and save $60 ($20 each) in shipping in the USA if you bought them at separate times. May not be a "sale" but at least you save some money. shipping (resized).png

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