(Topic ID: 64458)

Funhouse!? Club... (Fans welcome)


By mof

7 years ago



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#2101 6 months ago
Quoted from Shredso:

Not sure if this will help at all as mine is not original and has an aftermarket speaker, but it works. The stray barrel connector is not connected to anything on mine.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Thanks for the photos! Your photo definitely shows what type of inline/barrel connector SHOULD be on there, lol, so that helps.

Your J504/J505 connections look different than mine but I wonder if that's because your setup is aftermarket as you mentioned. Very curious.

#2102 6 months ago

Couple pics i had on my phone until i can get closer ones for you. Original fh unit, not a proto

160FDCB3-27A7-43CA-9B68-F71A494961E2 (resized).png45D82227-3170-43D1-8730-6ABE372CF3E1 (resized).png
#2103 6 months ago
Quoted from Bravebluerx:

Couple pics i had on my phone until i can get closer ones for you. Original fh unit, not a proto
[quoted image][quoted image]

Thanks, that's helpful. Do you know if the black wire connected to the right connector (J505 I think?) runs to the backbox speaker or does it run to the cabinet speaker?

#2104 6 months ago

I am starting my first pinball machine resto with Funhouse. I have a new playfield/ramps/plastics and will clean, polish or replace all parts, so it should be a nice piece when done. I'd love some feedback on a few playfield items.

Incondescent vs LED lights? I'm not a purist and in general I love LEDs, but I don't want it to look unpleasant (too bright I guess). I also don't want dingy yellow if going incandescents. If you are using something you love please let me know (brand, intensity, color, kit vs individual bulbs would be very helpful).

PopBumpers - Opaque Bodies or clear with rollover LEDs?

Star Posts - Multi-color, clear or specific colors in certain spots.

Rings/Bands - Thoughts on Titan Competition Silicone? White, black, clear, multi-color?

Will add Cliffy's protectors and mylar. If you have any thoughts or recommendations let me know. This will be a process.

#2105 6 months ago
Quoted from Lodi:

I am starting my first pinball machine resto with Funhouse. I have a new playfield/ramps/plastics and will clean, polish or replace all parts, so it should be a nice piece when done. I'd love some feedback on a few playfield items.
Incondescent vs LED lights? I'm not a purist and in general I love LEDs, but I don't want it to look unpleasant (too bright I guess). I also don't want dingy yellow if going incandescents. If you are using something you love please let me know (brand, intensity, color, kit vs individual bulbs would be very helpful).
PopBumpers - Opaque Bodies or clear with rollover LEDs?
Star Posts - Multi-color, clear or specific colors in certain spots.
Rings/Bands - Thoughts on Titan Competition Silicone? White, black, clear, multi-color?
Will add Cliffy's protectors and mylar. If you have any thoughts or recommendations let me know. This will be a process.

WPC introduced a GI dimming effect, which is lost when you install LEDs in the GI. Which doesn’t bother everyone. However you can buy 2 products; LED OCD for controlled lamps to maintain the softer fade on/fade off effects you get with incandescent, and GI OCD to maintain the GI dimming effects. If you go that route, you don’t need to spend more for premium LED’s.

If you don’t care about how the LEDs will “behave” (and i’m not advocating one over the other as its purely personal preference) then Comet Pinball makes a good product. Usually my go-to for LEDs.

You can temper GI brightness with how many smds the lamp has. I usually go with 2 smd frosted. Cool or warm white depending on the art (theres a sunlight version too) I don’t like color matching GI but again, personal preference. Though there is a whole puke thread dedicated to that....

#2106 6 months ago

completist - Thank you! I may go with incandescent so I don’t lose the dimming effect.

Something else that would be helpful is a playfield post map. I took lots of pictures but I’m not sure my machine has posts in all the right spots. I’m sure I can figure it out but knowing what goes where would be helpful. I was surprised the manual does not have this. It lists just about everything else on the playfield.

#2107 6 months ago
Quoted from Lodi:

I am starting my first pinball machine resto with Funhouse. I have a new playfield/ramps/plastics and will clean, polish or replace all parts, so it should be a nice piece when done. I'd love some feedback on a few playfield items.
Incondescent vs LED lights? I'm not a purist and in general I love LEDs, but I don't want it to look unpleasant (too bright I guess). I also don't want dingy yellow if going incandescents. If you are using something you love please let me know (brand, intensity, color, kit vs individual bulbs would be very helpful).
PopBumpers - Opaque Bodies or clear with rollover LEDs?
Star Posts - Multi-color, clear or specific colors in certain spots.
Rings/Bands - Thoughts on Titan Competition Silicone? White, black, clear, multi-color?
Will add Cliffy's protectors and mylar. If you have any thoughts or recommendations let me know. This will be a process.

I just finished doing full shop on mine. I love LEDs but wanted to keep the stock look. I used Comet 1smd bulbs throughout with both ocd boards. I normally use 2smd for gi but didn't want FH to be too bright. Frosted lens for backbox, gi, and visible bulbs. Clear leans for inserts with color matching (except warm white for yellow/orange). Most inserts were a little too bright so probably should of used frosted. No problem - turned them down using the led ocd software. The software allows you to tweak each individual insert bulb so you can get everything the perfect brightness. The ocd boards also eliminate ghosting and give you all the dimming effects. If you go led, I highly recommend these boards. It's a bit intimidating to install them first time but really not that bad. I am really happy with how mine turned out. It still looks stock but a little more bright and crisp. I can give you more info if you like.

I usually use Titan rubbers on my games but left stock white rubber on FH since they were almost new. Colors are fun but go with white if you are unsure.

I used clear pop bumper parts on my FT and love them. I had to remove them to do repairs so it was a good time to try them out. I would love to add them to other games but not tearing pop bumpers apart just for that. Too much of a pain.

#2108 6 months ago
Quoted from Lodi:

I may go with incandescent so I don’t lose the dimming effect.

Sure, incandescents just warp and kill the plastics, fade out the artwork and buckle the GI circuit after killing the driver board.

But put in old bulbs if you wish, its your game.

I would never put regular bulbs in any game that i could put leds.

The games are getting too expensive to throw away the plastics and playfields, just to use #44 original bulbs.

Even much dimmer #47 bulbs dont solve the problem.

LEDs and ledocd with giocd all the way.

You dont even have to think, 2smd frosted sunlight color for everything.

Looks just like a new #44 bulb.

Games look amazing!

#2109 6 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Sure, incandescents just warp and kill the plastics, fade out the artwork and buckle the GI circuit after killing the driver board.
But put in old bulbs if you wish, its your game.
I would never put regular bulbs in any game that i could put leds.
The games are getting too expensive to throw away the plastics and playfields, just to use #44 original bulbs.
Even much dimmer #47 bulbs dont solve the problem.
LEDs and ledocd with giocd all the way.
You dont even have to think, 2smd frosted sunlight color for everything.
Looks just like a new #44 bulb.
Games look amazing!

There is one place that I have incandescents on my Funhouse: the mirror.
If you look around you can find incandescent 555s in all sorts of colors. I have 1 red, 4 yellows and 1 green in the corresponding places on the mirror. Gives it that old arcade “grip tester” look since no bulb condoms are needed. Since they’re exposed and not under any inserts, I’m not too concerned about them hurting anything. Plus I bought a dozen of each color (x 4 for yellow) so I have a decent supply to cover the inevitable burnouts. But I like their look on the mirror and they’re a breeze to replace when needed.

Frosted sunlight LEDs everywhere else.

#2110 6 months ago
Quoted from Lodi:

completist - Thank you! I may go with incandescent so I don’t lose the dimming effect.
Something else that would be helpful is a playfield post map. I took lots of pictures but I’m not sure my machine has posts in all the right spots. I’m sure I can figure it out but knowing what goes where would be helpful. I was surprised the manual does not have this. It lists just about everything else on the playfield.

Dont be so quick to go incandescent. Funhouse was my first resto too (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/funhouse-my-first-restoration-help-me-not-botch-this) The led's just totally brighten things up. If your a purist, go with warm white for the gi, otherwise, sunlight? Me personally I went natural white. Get the ocd board as others have said and it will look awesome.

#2111 6 months ago
Quoted from arcadenerd925:

Dont be so quick to go incandescent. Funhouse was my first resto too (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/funhouse-my-first-restoration-help-me-not-botch-this) The led's just totally brighten things up. If your a purist, go with warm white for the gi, otherwise, sunlight? Me personally I went natural white. Get the ocd board as others have said and it will look awesome.

2smd frosted Sunlight = #44 bulbs

2smd frosted Warm white = #47 bulbs

The game came with bright new #44 bulbs
It was bright, shiney and amazing.

As the games age and bulbs are replaced with #47's, they look dim and old. This is not how they are supposed to be or how they were imagined IMHO.

The game should be crisp and bright.

So, 2smd sunlight everywhere.

#2112 6 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

2smd frosted Sunlight = #44 bulbs
2smd frosted Warm white = #47 bulbs
The game came with bright new #44 bulbs
It was bright, shiney and amazing.
As the games age and bulbs are replaced with #47's, they look dim and old. This is not how they are supposed to be or how they were imagined IMHO.
The game should be crisp and bright.
So, 2smd sunlight everywhere.

2smd is very bright. The frosted lens help dilute the brightness but it's still way more bright than incandescent. For reference Stern uses 2smd in their games. If you ever see a new Stern next to an older incandescent game there is a huge difference. Even 1smd bulbs are brighter than incandescents. Comet sells retro smd bulb that are less bright and closer to incandescent. One thing you can always do is buy a mix of bulbs to try. Put them in easy to reach areas like slings/inlanes and compare. Kinda like buying sample paint and spreading it on the wall.

#2113 6 months ago

My funhouse has been sitting in pieces for years and looking to finish a restoration soon..i have forgotten, can you put incandescent bulbs AND LEDs (for example in opposite slings and two inserts next to each other) to compare the look and the dimming effects?

#2114 6 months ago

Yeah i would go Full LED with the OCD boards if it was a keeper. For me i would prioritize the GI OCD over the other but to each there own. I just bought a set for my CV. I’ve been running LEDs in the controlled lamps but never changed the GI out, but with the OCD board i will finally do that.

On any game with a backglass (versus translite) i want the incandescents out! Most of those are pre-WPC so i dont feel i lose anything. Incandescents have destroyed so many silk screened ones. Plastics are also a concern as mentioned above. I’ve never had any issues with my CV but i also dont run it for prolonged periods to have an issue there.

Going to be restoring my FH here soon as well. Have a IPB pf going to kruzman. He did my AFM and it came out spectacular.

#2115 6 months ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

2smd is very bright

Yes they are.

But with ledocd we are running them at 85% brightness and at a much higher frequency.

Its a really good system.

So, in the end its a perfect color match and brightness.

Much better than the old game destroying bulbs.

#2116 6 months ago
Quoted from JoeJet:

My funhouse has been sitting in pieces for years and looking to finish a restoration soon..i have forgotten, can you put incandescent bulbs AND LEDs (for example in opposite slings and two inserts next to each other) to compare the look and the dimming effects?

You can have leds with incandescent bulbs but you will not be able to compare dimming. LEDs do not dim in stock game and will flicker. You can stop the flickering by turning off dimming effects but you of course lose those effects. The ocd boards fix all that but require the game to be 100% leds.

Quoted from pinballinreno:

Yes they are.
But with ledocd we are running them at 85% brightness and at a much higher frequency.
Its a really good system.
So, in the end its a perfect color match and brightness.
Much better than the old game destroying bulbs.

I turned down my inserts way lower than that. For larger inserts, I did turn them up. I've used ocd boards before but never tried to customize the settings. Really cool you can do that. Cost of getting these boards and all the leds is a bit expensive when you add it up. However, I feel it's the best thing you can do to these older games. I could feel the entire room heat up when I had just the one game on with incandescent bulbs and glass off.

#2117 6 months ago

Great info everyone! I did not think about the destructive aspects of incondescents. With what I will be investing in this machine its definitely a keeper so I want to do it right. Seems like LEDs w/OCD boards is the way to go. I assume I need both boards to do it right. Correct? It doesn’t sound like anyone is using Comet’s FH kit. They claim to mix and match colored bulbs for some desired effect. Am I correct in assuming that 2smd frosted sunlights would provide the best overall flexibility with the ability to dim them back via the app? I don’t want it too over the top bright but I like the idea of being able to adjust to taste? jawjaw - would this be too bright in your opinion?

#2118 6 months ago
Quoted from Lodi:

Great info everyone! I did not think about the destructive aspects of incondescents. With what I will be investing in this machine its definitely a keeper so I want to do it right. Seems like LEDs w/OCD boards is the way to go. I assume I need both boards to do it right. Correct? It doesn’t sound like anyone is using Comet’s FH kit. They claim to mix and match colored bulbs for some desired effect. Am I correct in assuming that 2smd frosted sunlights would provide the best overall flexibility with the ability to dim them back via the app? I don’t want it too over the top bright but I like the idea of being able to adjust to taste? jawjaw - would this be too bright in your opinion?

No one color matches inserts any more unless there is a problem or you just want to draw attention to a specific insert.

2smd frosted sunlight in bayonet and wedge sockets.
5smd cool white tower/flashers for the #906 bulbs
8smd cool white flashers for the #89 bulbs

LEDOCD and GIOCD to control the leds.

Put condoms on the mysery mirror leds so that it looks colorful even with the power off, plus you dont have to get colored leds for it.

Buy the bulk paks to save a lot of money at comet.

#2119 6 months ago
Quoted from Lodi:

I did not think about the destructive aspects of incondescents.

In home use environment, it's not serious at all...

#2120 6 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

No one color matches inserts any more

I had to chuckle. Largely ... you're right. But on funhouse I found using pink bulbs under yellow inserts makes the yellow look more natural than a white bulb.
No shit, try it out.

#2121 6 months ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

I had to chuckle. Largely ... you're right. But on funhouse I found using pink bulbs under yellow inserts makes the yellow look more natural than a white bulb.
No shit, try it out.

Picked up a FH with cool white LED's, wanted the retro look so I swapped in warm white. All of the yellow and orange inserts looked best with pink though

#2122 6 months ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

I had to chuckle. Largely ... you're right. But on funhouse I found using pink bulbs under yellow inserts makes the yellow look more natural than a white bulb.
No shit, try it out.

For me on the inserts:

Yellow = Warm White, the rest I color match

But that's the great thing about pinball, set it up how you like it and it's all good.

#2123 6 months ago
Quoted from arcadenerd925:

For me on the inserts:
Yellow = Warm White, the rest I color match
But that's the great thing about pinball, set it up how you like it and it's all good.

Same here except warm white for yellow and orange. Cool white for clear and blue inserts. That's what I like but is more of a hassle getting different color bulbs. I see no need to just buy bulk and end up with a lot of extra bulbs. You are spending more money, not less. Plan out what you need and only buy that.

No worries on things being to bright with the ocd boards. You can just turn down the brightness.

I usually go with led flashers but did not for FH. The led flashers (even the 5smd ones) are really bright and can be blinding. You can save money by just keeping the incandescent flashers. I also recommend keeping the condoms. Leds look ugly when not lit.

#2124 6 months ago
Quoted from Davi:

In home use environment, it's not serious at all...

This. Unless it's going to be on all day, every day, incandescents aren't going to cause any cumulative damage.

And they're way cheaper! Just replacing aged bulbs with fresh ones will brighten and whiten things back up immensely. No need to spend all that money on LEDs and OCD nonsense.

#2125 6 months ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

This. Unless it's going to be on all day, every day, incandescents aren't going to cause any cumulative damage.
And they're way cheaper! Just replacing aged bulbs with fresh ones will brighten and whiten things back up immensely. No need to spend all that money on LEDs and OCD nonsense.

I fully shopped my ToM with #44 bulbs to bring it back to factory brightness, replaced all tbe plastics with NOS, 6 years later my plastics are warped and faded.

This is in a home use environment.

I actually play all my games a lot.

Games with LEDs dont do this.

But your mileage may vary...

#2126 6 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Sure, incandescents just warp and kill the plastics, fade out the artwork and buckle the GI circuit after killing the driver board.
But put in old bulbs if you wish, its your game.
I would never put regular bulbs in any game that i could put leds.
The games are getting too expensive to throw away the plastics and playfields, just to use #44 original bulbs.
Even much dimmer #47 bulbs dont solve the problem.
LEDs and ledocd with giocd all the way.
You dont even have to think, 2smd frosted sunlight color for everything.
Looks just like a new #44 bulb.
Games look amazing!

No disrespect, but this really isn't true unless you are leaving your games on for countless hours. I've had incandescent in my machines for 20+ years. They are fine. I'm not sure how an issue that came from 'arcades have them on 12+ hours a day every day' somehow made it into the average home owners mind. Most people aren't leaving their games on a fraction of that. I do agree that the hotter ones should be replaced with the less hot ones. (I forget which is which at the moment).

I did have an opportunity to play a local pinsiders restored FH with all LED's and it was certainly bright. For me it's just a matter of taste. I prefer the retro look. I have replaced some of my sci-fi themed games with LED's though and think they look great.

#2127 6 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

No disrespect, but this really isn't true unless you are leaving your games on for countless hours. I've had incandescent in my machines for 20+ years. They are fine. I'm not sure how an issue that came from 'arcades have them on 12+ hours a day every day' somehow made it into the average home owners mind. Most people aren't leaving their games on a fraction of that. I do agree that the hotter ones should be replaced with the less hot ones. (I forget which is which at the moment).
I did have an opportunity to play a local pinsiders restored FH with all LED's and it was certainly bright. For me it's just a matter of taste. I prefer the retro look. I have replaced some of my sci-fi themed games with LED's though and think they look great.

LEDOCD boards let you pretty much dial in whatever you want.

So, brightness isnt really an issue at all.

It costs $2500 to $3500 to fully restore a game properly.

$250 for led controls is nothing.

#2128 6 months ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

This. Unless it's going to be on all day, every day, incandescents aren't going to cause any cumulative damage.
And they're way cheaper! Just replacing aged bulbs with fresh ones will brighten and whiten things back up immensely. No need to spend all that money on LEDs and OCD nonsense.

Benefits of going LED:
Rated for much longer life expectancy
Runs much cooler which results in no plastic warpage and draws less power equating to less stress on already 30 plus year old boards
LED's also add additional brightness to a playfield that might otherwise have dark areas.
OCD boards allows custom tailoring - especially if you want a certain affect on one individual insert or flasher for that matter.

And to point out the obvious manufacturers have gone LED so if it were "nonsense" I'd doubt the'd all be doing it. Stern is notoriously cheap so if incandescent bulbs were cheaper I'd have to assume they'd have stuck with them. Assumption on my part.
And as far as expense goes .... perspective. People have no problem dumping $400 into a color screen. Doing a full LED bulb replacement and with OCD boards is around the same cost.

But at the end of the day that's the beauty of having choices. We can do what we feel is best. No judgement either way. Personal preference.

#2129 6 months ago

The other LED benefit: Not having to replace burnt out regular bulbs in hard to reach annoying places.

(edit: more of a benefit in other games with upper PF's, etc, but still.. even in FH, I am more than happy to not have to change burnt out bulbs)

#2130 6 months ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

This. Unless it's going to be on all day, every day, incandescents aren't going to cause any cumulative damage.
And they're way cheaper! Just replacing aged bulbs with fresh ones will brighten and whiten things back up immensely. No need to spend all that money on LEDs and OCD nonsense.

Not going to argue with that. It is around $400 to 500 to get boards and leds. Figuring out what you need, getting it installed, and fiddling can be a pain. I have fun doing it though and love results. Games are so much more enjoyable to play with proper leds and ocd boards. Colors are more vibrant and bright. It might make little difference but nice to know game is less stressed and not bathing in heat for however long I have it on. Only downside is cost but worth it to me.

#2131 6 months ago
Quoted from arcadenerd925:

The other LED benefit: Not having to replace burnt out regular bulbs in hard to reach annoying places.
(edit: more of a benefit in other games with upper PF's, etc, but still.. even in FH, I am more than happy to not have to change burnt out bulbs)

Shock resistance in pop bumpers.

My 1978 playboy only goes about 2 days before it needs at least one new bulb in the pops.

And the black/burned pop bumper caps from the #44's is eliminated.

#2132 6 months ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

Games are so much more enjoyable to play with proper leds and ocd boards.

"Proper" = incandescent.

"so much more enjoyable to play" ??????????????
If anything, I would enjoy it so much less knowing I blew $500 and hours of mucking around, accomplishing practically nothing.

Yeah, stick an LED in a pop if a normal bulb blows too often. Funny, mine never do.

#2133 6 months ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

"Proper" = incandescent.
"so much more enjoyable to play" ??????????????
If anything, I would enjoy it so much less knowing I blew $500 and hours of mucking around, accomplishing practically nothing.
Yeah, stick an LED in a pop if a normal bulb blows too often. Funny, mine never do.

Lol, thats funny!

#2134 6 months ago
Quoted from Bravebluerx:

Had the same issue, trap door would open and close 3 times upon boot up. Turns out the microswitch for the trapdoor closed position was bad. Pull it and check continuity when you press it in. When u do swap it out Save the original long actuator arm to swap into your replacement microswitch.

So i kept the game in switch test while i was looking at something else. sporadically the trap door would Register. I’m not activating it so found that odd. Figured the microswitch was flaky and waited for the new one to arrive to replace it. Did that today but no improvement. Trap door still cycling open and closed.

So then i started testing all switches, seeing if anything looked odd. Found some that were no longer registering even though i was certain they worked before. Went through every switch looking for a short, then started testing continuity between switches in the same rows. The row with the white/blue wire was looking suspect now which the trap door happens to belong in. None were registering at all. Also notice that switches that worked with pf up no longer work with pf down on a different row. I pull the pf right out of the game to make it easier to see and inspect the harness for breaks. But everything looks fine. I figure i must have a switch matrix problem now.

I decide to pull the Connector for the switch rows to check continuity from the connector to the pf. This is when things get interesting. The idc connector pins look like shit. The mpu is a new repro one that someone installed. Clearly batteries leaked on that board so they replaced it. But never bothered to change the connector which got hit also. So on with a new connector and wouldn’t you know it, everything works again and that stupid trap door is behaving now!

Tonight, for the first time since i bought this “working project”, i played a proper game of Funhouse.

#2135 6 months ago
Quoted from Completist:

So i kept the game in switch test while i was looking at something else. sporadically the trap door would Register. I’m not activating it so found that odd. Figured the microswitch was flaky and waited for the new one to arrive to replace it. Did that today but no improvement. Trap door still cycling open and closed.
So then i started testing all switches, seeing if anything looked odd. Found some that were no longer registering even though i was certain they worked before. Went through every switch looking for a short, then started testing continuity between switches in the same rows. The row with the white/blue wire was looking suspect now which the trap door happens to belong in. None were registering at all. Also notice that switches that worked with pf up no longer work with pf down on a different row. I pull the pf right out of the game to make it easier to see and inspect the harness for breaks. But everything looks fine. I figure i must have a switch matrix problem now.
I decide to pull the Connector for the switch rows to check continuity from the connector to the pf. This is when things get interesting. The idc connector pins look like shit. The mpu is a new repro one that someone installed. Clearly batteries leaked on that board so they replaced it. But never bothered to change the connector which got hit also. So on with a new connector and wouldn’t you know it, everything works again and that stupid trap door is behaving now!
Tonight, for the first time since i bought this “working project”, i played a proper game of Funhouse.

Nice find!

#2136 6 months ago

I still color match inserts. Looks much less washed out than all white bulbs, especially on older games.

#2137 6 months ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

"Proper" = incandescent.
"so much more enjoyable to play" ??????????????
If anything, I would enjoy it so much less knowing I blew $500 and hours of mucking around, accomplishing practically nothing.
Yeah, stick an LED in a pop if a normal bulb blows too often. Funny, mine never do.

I meant not loading game up with purple leds and color bombing. And yes I do enjoy a game better lit with leds than one that is dingy and dark. There is a reason why modern games use leds instead of sticking with incandescent. Same reason they use lcd displays and I put colordmds in my game. Not that they are needed but just look better. I'm no purist so enjoy playing games with these kind of improvements.

#2138 6 months ago

Fresh 44s are plenty bright. People forget that they get dirty, yellow and dim with long use. The main big brightness "difference" after LEDing is mostly due to that. Not hundreds of dollars' worth of improvement in my book.

#2139 6 months ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

Fresh 44s are plenty bright. People forget that they get dirty, yellow and dim with long use. The main big brightness "difference" after LEDing is mostly due to that. Not hundreds of dollars' worth of improvement in my book.

This is true!

But it destroyed the plastics on my ToM...

#2140 6 months ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

Fresh 44s are plenty bright. People forget that they get dirty, yellow and dim with long use. The main big brightness "difference" after LEDing is mostly due to that. Not hundreds of dollars' worth of improvement in my book.

Some bulbs do get pretty dirty but don't agree at all on brightness. 2smd bulbs are way brighter than any incandescent. Too bright for anything other than non visible gi bulbs imo. 1smd not as much but still brighter. That's just fact. Leds are more efficient. Replacing the entire game with leds makes a drastic difference in the look and brightness. Not even close.

#2141 6 months ago

completist brings up an interesting point regarding switches. While I have everything torn down, should I replace all switches. I was planning on replacing most of the leaf switches and the optos but figured I'd let the micro switches ride as long as they are good. This rebuild thing is definitely a slipery slope. Its hard to replace one thing and not the next. I had planned on replacing a lot of PF bits but the mighty Harbor Freight tumbler performed magic. I really just need to replace plastics, pop bumpers, bands and broking items. Everythign else cleaned up nicely. pinballinreno I think your estimate of $2,500 to $3,500 is spot on. I can't see restoring a machine for much less.

Thanks for all of the guidance on the lighting. Will definitely go with both OCD boards and LEDs. Will select my specific bulbs when things start to go back together.

#2142 6 months ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

Some bulbs do get pretty dirty but don't agree at all on brightness. 2smd bulbs are way brighter than any incandescent. Too bright for anything other than non visible gi bulbs imo. 1smd not as much but still brighter. That's just fact. Leds are more efficient. Replacing the entire game with leds makes a drastic difference in the look and brightness. Not even close.

I didn't say they weren't brighter. I said the additional brightness of putting in all LEDs rather than
just new 44s compared to the old yellow dirty ones is not worth all that money.

Made up brightness scale, for demonstration:
Old bulbs: 2
New 44s: 7 (cost: $20)
LEDs/OCD: 9 (cost: hundreds!)

Your mileage may vary. Whatever numbers you assign, the $20 improvement accomplishes most of what the expensive one does. No amount of "ooh, that's bright!" can justify the additional expense. Enjoy the game as it was intended and give the difference to charity.

#2143 6 months ago
Quoted from Lodi:

completist brings up an interesting point regarding switches. While I have everything torn down, should I replace all switches. I was planning on replacing most of the leaf switches and the optos but figured I'd let the micro switches ride as long as they are good. This rebuild thing is definitely a slipery slope. Its hard to replace one thing and not the next. I had planned on replacing a lot of PF bits but the mighty Harbor Freight tumbler performed magic. I really just need to replace plastics, pop bumpers, bands and broking items. Everythign else cleaned up nicely. pinballinreno I think your estimate of $2,500 to $3,500 is spot on. I can't see restoring a machine for much less.
Thanks for all of the guidance on the lighting. Will definitely go with both OCD boards and LEDs. Will select my specific bulbs when things start to go back together.

I wouldn’t go so far as to replace micro switches if they functioned fine before you took it apart. I just make sure the game works 100% before i tear it apart so that if something isnt working after i put it back together i know its something i did.

My switch ended up not being the issue, it wad a connector that looked good from far but was far from good.

I would definitely replace all the coil sleeves while its easy to do so, and they are cheap relative to most things. And replace the wear items on the flippers (not the coils or brackets; things like coil stops, plungers if the linkage is loose, EOS switches etc).

#2144 6 months ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

I didn't say they weren't brighter. I said the additional brightness of putting in all LEDs rather than
just new 44s compared to the old yellow dirty ones is not worth all that money.
Made up brightness scale, for demonstration:
Old bulbs: 2
New 44s: 7 (cost: $20)
LEDs/OCD: 9 (cost: hundreds!)
Your mileage may vary. Whatever numbers you assign, the $20 improvement accomplishes most of what the expensive one does. No amount of "ooh, that's bright!" can justify the additional expense. Enjoy the game as it was intended and give the difference to charity.

I get that you are a purist but saying new incandescent bulbs are basically the same thing as full leds is ridiculous. That's all I'm saying.

#2145 6 months ago
Quoted from Lodi:

completist brings up an interesting point regarding switches. While I have everything torn down, should I replace all switches. I was planning on replacing most of the leaf switches and the optos but figured I'd let the micro switches ride as long as they are good. This rebuild thing is definitely a slipery slope. Its hard to replace one thing and not the next. I had planned on replacing a lot of PF bits but the mighty Harbor Freight tumbler performed magic. I really just need to replace plastics, pop bumpers, bands and broking items. Everythign else cleaned up nicely. pinballinreno I think your estimate of $2,500 to $3,500 is spot on. I can't see restoring a machine for much less.
Thanks for all of the guidance on the lighting. Will definitely go with both OCD boards and LEDs. Will select my specific bulbs when things start to go back together.

Replace all the micro switches. All of them. In fact, just replace all switches, thank me later.
Most are 30 years old and a pain to fix after a full resto.

Also replace all the optos and rebuild or replace the opto boards, they arent getting younger or newer.

Try to preserve the original backbox boards, they play better. Chris Hibler is a GOD!

Please look into MRS switches. THEY ROCK!

There might be something for Funhouse like on the steps ramp. I doing one right now.

2smd frosted sunlight throughout for everything, dual flex head on the big inserts.
5smd tower flashers for the #906 bulbs etc.

Comet has them cheap in bulk.

When I do a restore, I build for a stable game thats good for another 30 years.

#2146 6 months ago

I also suggest replacing all the switches now. It will bite you in the ass down the road.

#2147 6 months ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

I get that you are a purist but saying new incandescent bulbs are basically the same thing as full leds is ridiculous. That's all I'm saying.

You are the one being ridiculous. Do I need to explain yet again that that is not what I said? Sheesh. Some people have zero nuance in their thinking.

#2148 6 months ago

One of the things to keep in mind is that the Cherry microswitches all mount the same way, but the actuators come in all shapes and sizes. And while many of the variants are still available through Marco or PPS or elsewhere, SOME of them may have to be MADE using 'blanks'. I know Marco sells both the Lever and Wire type of blank which can be made into anything you need with a pair of pliers and cutters. You can simply bend and cut as needed. Takes a little practice and patience, but you can bend the wire or lever quite easily to any shape needed. The blank actuator is either a long flat lever or a long piece of stiff piano wire welded to the short factory lever. I had been looking for the upper tiger loop switch on my TOTAN for a few weeks and couldn't find it in stock anywhere, so I bit the bullet and decided to make it from the wire blank from Marco. It was easy to do and half the price.

#2149 6 months ago
Quoted from Markharris2000:

One of the things to keep in mind is that the Cherry microswitches all mount the same way, but the actuators come in all shapes and sizes. And while many of the variants are still available through Marco or PPS or elsewhere, SOME of them may have to be MADE using 'blanks'. I know Marco sells both the Lever and Wire type of blank which can be made into anything you need with a pair of pliers and cutters. You can simply bend and cut as needed. Takes a little practice and patience, but you can bend the wire or lever quite easily to any shape needed. The blank actuator is either a long flat lever or a long piece of stiff piano wire welded to the short factory lever. I had been looking for the upper tiger loop switch on my TOTAN for a few weeks and couldn't find it in stock anywhere, so I bit the bullet and decided to make it from the wire blank from Marco. It was easy to do and half the price.

I usually just get the blank switches and put on my own diodes.
Then just transfer the actuators from the old switch if they are in good condition.

Once in awhile an actuator has been abused so much its just ruined. Most can be saved thru bending and flattening out, but some break off.

Then I bend a new one, either round wire of flat wire, from one of marco's spare "bend-it-yourself" actuators. Its handy to have a few long 4" ones in your tool box.

#2150 6 months ago

Good info on the switches. Most of my wire forms are in good shape so I can just order the blank microswitches. Is Marcos the best outlet? Looks like there are two different typse; the small black ones and slightly larger white ones. As long as the new ones look the same and have the same post configuration is it safe to assume they are the same? Are the diods throughout the machine all the same (I have not looked at the markings yet)? If so I will just order a bunch. I may need some help on the leaf switches. There are some that look similar but are slightly different. All of the coils appear to be in good shape. Some are newer so I suspect the machine had a partial rebuild at some point in its life. I will replace all of the sleeves. Should I replace the springs. They seem fine but I'm not if they have lost any resistance. dmacy mentined replacing the coil stops. Anything else to consider while things are torn down. I will start a build thread this week. Thanks again!

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